Tommy Lee

Bunk_Moreland · Fri 27 Mar 2015 9:52am

WinnersOnly wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:And you'll probably say it again
Let Richo know will you Spacman! Lee to CHB...

Why, it might work and then you couldn't complain about Richo not being a coach and all we need to win a flag is one that can.

FQF · Post: # 1535933Post **FQF** » Fri 27 Mar 2015 11:32am

Has yet to star in a VFL game while on our list. Yes he has been injured but doesn't appear to have any outstanding features and many negative ones.

A shadow of the player we saw in the footage of his time in the SANFL.

gringo · Post: # 1535934Post **gringo** » Fri 27 Mar 2015 11:41am

He went okay in his first season of AFL scoring well and spent the last year playing VFL with stuffed shoulders. He may not make it but he should be given a chance now his body seems to be right. Somehow some people think Paddy Mc cartin and Membery have done more to deserve a spot but they haven't played for Sandy either. People have flexible points of argument. Bruce has had a great preseason so probably deserves a spot but there is no one else playing forward that looks any better than Lee or Spencer. I'm not sure we manage our players any better than we used to and instead of pissing off the seniors we are pissing off a whole new group. It seems guys just starting out walk straight in but then after a year or two you never play again.

plugger66 · Fri 27 Mar 2015 12:33pm

gringo wrote:He went okay in his first season of AFL scoring well and spent the last year playing VFL with stuffed shoulders. He may not make it but he should be given a chance now his body seems to be right. Somehow some people think Paddy Mc cartin and Membery have done more to deserve a spot but they haven't played for Sandy either. People have flexible points of argument. Bruce has had a great preseason so probably deserves a spot but there is no one else playing forward that looks any better than Lee or Spencer. I'm not sure we manage our players any better than we used to and instead of pissing off the seniors we are pissing off a whole new group. It seems guys just starting out walk straight in but then after a year or two you never play again.

You talk as if he hasn't had a chance to impress in the VFL. I keep hearing the reason tall forwards struggle in the AFL is that Rooy gets all the ball but what is Lee's excuse in the VFL. And if Lee plays then McCartin or Membery don't so maybe they will be pissed off. I reckon none of them should be pissed off and certainly not Lee because he has plenty of chances to impress and hasn't yet, well certainly not in the last year. I think your rose coloured glasses are effecting your judgement on this.

White Winmar · Fri 27 Mar 2015 12:44pm

By all accounts he's fit again. No more excuses this year.

gringo · Post: # 1535949Post **gringo** » Fri 27 Mar 2015 1:41pm

plugger66 wrote:
gringo wrote:He went okay in his first season of AFL scoring well and spent the last year playing VFL with stuffed shoulders. He may not make it but he should be given a chance now his body seems to be right. Somehow some people think Paddy Mc cartin and Membery have done more to deserve a spot but they haven't played for Sandy either. People have flexible points of argument. Bruce has had a great preseason so probably deserves a spot but there is no one else playing forward that looks any better than Lee or Spencer. I'm not sure we manage our players any better than we used to and instead of pissing off the seniors we are pissing off a whole new group. It seems guys just starting out walk straight in but then after a year or two you never play again.

You talk as if he hasn't had a chance to impress in the VFL. I keep hearing the reason tall forwards struggle in the AFL is that Rooy gets all the ball but what is Lee's excuse in the VFL. And if Lee plays then McCartin or Membery don't so maybe they will be pissed off. I reckon none of them should be pissed off and certainly not Lee because he has plenty of chances to impress and hasn't yet, well certainly not in the last year. I think your rose coloured glasses are effecting your judgement on this.

He couldn't keep his shoulders in place. I spoke to him at the start of last year and he was recovering from surgery and didn't know how long they would take to be ready. This year he said they didn't get the surgery right and they were popping. They had to make a node of bone or something to hold them in. His shoulders are right now. The year before I thought he looked good. Would have averaged a couple of goals a game. Any way sometimes it's harder to play as a forward in the VFL because you don't get the delivery of the AFL. unless you are good at winning ball yourself you can struggle to get opportunities on goal. There is no doubt he needs to play a big 2015 but he has had reasons for not playing well at any level last year. People are very happy to bag his character or just say he is straight out s***. I personally think it's poor form to bag a player from your own club. Imagine your daughter was trying to make the national gymnastics squad and people jumped on the internet and questioned her character and just bagged her out for not being any good. People bagging him might help mess with his confidence and end up proving you right that he's no good when he doesn't make it in the AFL but at the end of the day it's not really a win for you. Negativity towards a player has an accumulative effect where all people see is the bad after a while.

crippsy · Post: # 1535951Post **crippsy** » Fri 27 Mar 2015 1:56pm

gringo wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
gringo wrote:He went okay in his first season of AFL scoring well and spent the last year playing VFL with stuffed shoulders. He may not make it but he should be given a chance now his body seems to be right. Somehow some people think Paddy Mc cartin and Membery have done more to deserve a spot but they haven't played for Sandy either. People have flexible points of argument. Bruce has had a great preseason so probably deserves a spot but there is no one else playing forward that looks any better than Lee or Spencer. I'm not sure we manage our players any better than we used to and instead of pissing off the seniors we are pissing off a whole new group. It seems guys just starting out walk straight in but then after a year or two you never play again.

You talk as if he hasn't had a chance to impress in the VFL. I keep hearing the reason tall forwards struggle in the AFL is that Rooy gets all the ball but what is Lee's excuse in the VFL. And if Lee plays then McCartin or Membery don't so maybe they will be pissed off. I reckon none of them should be pissed off and certainly not Lee because he has plenty of chances to impress and hasn't yet, well certainly not in the last year. I think your rose coloured glasses are effecting your judgement on this.

He couldn't keep his shoulders in place. I spoke to him at the start of last year and he was recovering from surgery and didn't know how long they would take to be ready. This year he said they didn't get the surgery right and they were popping. They had to make a node of bone or something to hold them in. His shoulders are right now. The year before I thought he looked good. Would have averaged a couple of goals a game. Any way sometimes it's harder to play as a forward in the VFL because you don't get the delivery of the AFL. unless you are good at winning ball yourself you can struggle to get opportunities on goal. There is no doubt he needs to play a big 2015 but he has had reasons for not playing well at any level last year. People are very happy to bag his character or just say he is straight out s***. I personally think it's poor form to bag a player from your own club. Imagine your daughter was trying to make the national gymnastics squad and people jumped on the internet and questioned her character and just bagged her out for not being any good. People bagging him might help mess with his confidence and end up proving you right that he's no good when he doesn't make it in the AFL but at the end of the day it's not really a win for you. Negativity towards a player has an accumulative effect where all people see is the bad after a while.

+1

plugger66 · Post: # 1535952Post **plugger66** » Fri 27 Mar 2015 2:06pm

gringo wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
gringo wrote:He went okay in his first season of AFL scoring well and spent the last year playing VFL with stuffed shoulders. He may not make it but he should be given a chance now his body seems to be right. Somehow some people think Paddy Mc cartin and Membery have done more to deserve a spot but they haven't played for Sandy either. People have flexible points of argument. Bruce has had a great preseason so probably deserves a spot but there is no one else playing forward that looks any better than Lee or Spencer. I'm not sure we manage our players any better than we used to and instead of pissing off the seniors we are pissing off a whole new group. It seems guys just starting out walk straight in but then after a year or two you never play again.

You talk as if he hasn't had a chance to impress in the VFL. I keep hearing the reason tall forwards struggle in the AFL is that Rooy gets all the ball but what is Lee's excuse in the VFL. And if Lee plays then McCartin or Membery don't so maybe they will be pissed off. I reckon none of them should be pissed off and certainly not Lee because he has plenty of chances to impress and hasn't yet, well certainly not in the last year. I think your rose coloured glasses are effecting your judgement on this.

He couldn't keep his shoulders in place. I spoke to him at the start of last year and he was recovering from surgery and didn't know how long they would take to be ready. This year he said they didn't get the surgery right and they were popping. They had to make a node of bone or something to hold them in. His shoulders are right now. The year before I thought he looked good. Would have averaged a couple of goals a game. Any way sometimes it's harder to play as a forward in the VFL because you don't get the delivery of the AFL. unless you are good at winning ball yourself you can struggle to get opportunities on goal. There is no doubt he needs to play a big 2015 but he has had reasons for not playing well at any level last year. People are very happy to bag his character or just say he is straight out s***. I personally think it's poor form to bag a player from your own club. Imagine your daughter was trying to make the national gymnastics squad and people jumped on the internet and questioned her character and just bagged her out for not being any good. People bagging him might help mess with his confidence and end up proving you right that he's no good when he doesn't make it in the AFL but at the end of the day it's not really a win for you. Negativity towards a player has an accumulative effect where all people see is the bad after a while.

Firstly I certainly have never bagged his character because I don't care about his character. Secondly I have never said he is s***. pathetic thing to say about any player let alone a Saints player. I don't even think I have bagged him. Just said he doesn't deserve a game on form and don't think he is going to make it on form. Don't think that is bagging him because more than 50% don't make it. Its just an honest assessment of him. No point in having discussion boards if we just say a player will make it and never have an opposing position. I hope I am wrong but I don't see many AFL attributes in Tom Lee. And if you think people cant make up their own mind on here you must think there are some dumb people on here.

Joe Bloggs · Fri 27 Mar 2015 2:47pm

How far in to the season are we ....? Oh that's right it hasn't started. ,! I wonder who the last young forward who has played afl has carved it up in the vfl . People shouldn't be so critical of a young guy trying to make it .

plugger66 · Post: # 1535963Post **plugger66** » Fri 27 Mar 2015 2:55pm

Joe Bloggs wrote:How far in to the season are we ....? Oh that's right it hasn't started. ,! I wonder who the last young forward who has played afl has carved it up in the vfl . People shouldn't be so critical of a young guy trying to make it .

What is your point about Lee apart from having a go at others? Obviously no point in practice matches. Just pick the side from the last game last season. So Lenny is in and Lonie, Membery and McCartin are out. And the young guy is 25 this season.

Joe Bloggs · Fri 27 Mar 2015 4:47pm

What's your point more like it, who saidantything about round one.all I said was why bag a guy who is trying to make it what's the point, it is what it is or talk to richo oh and who was thelasgt afl guy to carve it up in the vfl.

plugger66 · Post: # 1535983Post **plugger66** » Fri 27 Mar 2015 4:59pm

Joe Bloggs wrote:What's your point more like it, who saidantything about round one.all I said was why bag a guy who is trying to make it what's the point, it is what it is or talk to richo oh and who was thelasgt afl guy to carve it up in the vfl.

Well again I haven't bagged him. Just saying I don't think he is up to AFL level at the moment isn't bagging him. Its actually fact. And not many forwards carve it up at VFL level but most who eventually make it show more than Lee has at VFL level. And most aren't 24 years of age. What has talk to richo got to do with anything?

gringo · Post: # 1536022Post **gringo** » Fri 27 Mar 2015 7:55pm

plugger66 wrote:
Joe Bloggs wrote:What's your point more like it, who saidantything about round one.all I said was why bag a guy who is trying to make it what's the point, it is what it is or talk to richo oh and who was thelasgt afl guy to carve it up in the vfl.

Well again I haven't bagged him. Just saying I don't think he is up to AFL level at the moment isn't bagging him. Its actually fact. And not many forwards carve it up at VFL level but most who eventually make it show more than Lee has at VFL level. And most aren't 24 years of age. What has talk to richo got to do with anything?

Last time we talked about him you made some reference to some suicide in an old movie.

saint-stu · Post: # 1536025Post **saint-stu** » Fri 27 Mar 2015 8:45pm

plugger66 wrote:
Joe Bloggs wrote:What's your point more like it, who saidantything about round one.all I said was why bag a guy who is trying to make it what's the point, it is what it is or talk to richo oh and who was thelasgt afl guy to carve it up in the vfl.

Well again I haven't bagged him. Just saying I don't think he is up to AFL level at the moment isn't bagging him. Its actually fact. And not many forwards carve it up at VFL level but most who eventually make it show more than Lee has at VFL level. And most aren't 24 years of age. What has talk to richo got to do with anything?

As long as you would be happy to say the same words to the person's face, then I think it's fine.

plugger66 · Post: # 1536030Post **plugger66** » Fri 27 Mar 2015 9:12pm

saint-stu wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
Joe Bloggs wrote:What's your point more like it, who saidantything about round one.all I said was why bag a guy who is trying to make it what's the point, it is what it is or talk to richo oh and who was thelasgt afl guy to carve it up in the vfl.

Well again I haven't bagged him. Just saying I don't think he is up to AFL level at the moment isn't bagging him. Its actually fact. And not many forwards carve it up at VFL level but most who eventually make it show more than Lee has at VFL level. And most aren't 24 years of age. What has talk to richo got to do with anything?
As long as you would be happy to say the same words to the person's face, then I think it's fine.

Yep because we would always say the same words as we would on here. What crap.

Sainternist · Sat 28 Mar 2015 11:43am

Geez, I hope this guy can start showing some glimpses soon. We're gonna need all hands on deck in that forward line. I reckon another year of a one-man-band forward line could prematurely end Roo's career. There's only so much his body can take.

gringo · Post: # 1536098Post **gringo** » Sat 28 Mar 2015 11:52am

Sainternist wrote:Geez, I hope this guy can start showing some glimpses soon. We're gonna need all hands on deck in that forward line. I reckon another year of a one-man-band forward line could prematurely end Roo's career. There's only so much his body can take.

I actually think tall forwards are now a bit over represented. White, Lee, Bruce, Rooey, Mc cartin and even Membery plays more as a small KPF. We probably need some more good small forwards. On SEN they were putting together best small forward combos and you realise most teams have at least 3 highly capable small forwards on the field. Bruest, Cyril and Puopulo. Wingard, Gray and Neade etc.

We probably need to get away from purely defensive small forwards and find a settled scoring group who can double back. Lonie and Saad look capable. Saunders is probably more a mid as is Curren and Minch.

saintspremiers · Sat 28 Mar 2015 12:24pm

I'm delighted he got a 2 year deal. Must've been a close call re 3 years but at least we got 2

gringo · Post: # 1536105Post **gringo** » Sat 28 Mar 2015 12:48pm

saintspremiers wrote:I'm delighted he got a 2 year deal. Must've been a close call re 3 years but at least we got 2

because there are so many that deserve a spot more. We didn't get anything from him last year due to injury and invested a high pick on him. It would be stupid management not to give him time. Especially when we have a heap of fringe players who aren't looking like they are rated by our coach.

saintspremiers · Sat 28 Mar 2015 1:16pm

gringo wrote:
saintspremiers wrote:I'm delighted he got a 2 year deal. Must've been a close call re 3 years but at least we got 2

because there are so many that deserve a spot more. We didn't get anything from him last year due to injury and invested a high pick on him. It would be stupid management not to give him time. Especially when we have a heap of fringe players who aren't looking like they are rated by our coach.

Why does he deserve a spot? Because he's tall and has silly hair??

Sainternist · Sat 28 Mar 2015 1:36pm

gringo wrote:
Sainternist wrote:Geez, I hope this guy can start showing some glimpses soon. We're gonna need all hands on deck in that forward line. I reckon another year of a one-man-band forward line could prematurely end Roo's career. There's only so much his body can take.

I actually think tall forwards are now a bit over represented. White, Lee, Bruce, Rooey, Mc cartin and even Membery plays more as a small KPF. We probably need some more good small forwards. On SEN they were putting together best small forward combos and you realise most teams have at least 3 highly capable small forwards on the field. Bruest, Cyril and Puopulo. Wingard, Gray and Neade etc.

We probably need to get away from purely defensive small forwards and find a settled scoring group who can double back. Lonie and Saad look capable. Saunders is probably more a mid as is Curren and Minch.

In my view a strong forward line has two big key goal kicking forwards: ideally a FF and a CHF. A decent HFF: a guy with good mobility, smarts and a solid frame. Then you have one small forward. No more. The rest to take their position in the forward line are guys rotated from the midfield, a resting ruckman or the occasional defender who play as an ace up the coach's sleeve.

Sat 28 Mar 2015 1:36pm

I still rate Tom. Has lots of tricks to get clear of an opponent. Question is more about whether the midfielders have the vision and skill to deliver the ball to the space he is attacking. So far not. That is not his fault. Definitely AFL standard in a team with elite midfielders. Would love to see him play 10 games this year and slot 20+ goals to regain confidence.

saint-stu · Post: # 1536113Post **saint-stu** » Sat 28 Mar 2015 2:03pm

plugger66 wrote:
saint-stu wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
Joe Bloggs wrote:What's your point more like it, who saidantything about round one.all I said was why bag a guy who is trying to make it what's the point, it is what it is or talk to richo oh and who was thelasgt afl guy to carve it up in the vfl.

Well again I haven't bagged him. Just saying I don't think he is up to AFL level at the moment isn't bagging him. Its actually fact. And not many forwards carve it up at VFL level but most who eventually make it show more than Lee has at VFL level. And most aren't 24 years of age. What has talk to richo got to do with anything?
As long as you would be happy to say the same words to the person's face, then I think it's fine.

Yep because we would always say the same words as we would on here. What crap.

Well you're saying you're not bagging them. If you're comfortable saying it to their face, then I agree with you.

Bluthy · Post: # 1536212Post **Bluthy** » Sun 29 Mar 2015 10:15pm

I don't know why people are so panicked about Tommy playing round 1. He's going to get every chance to prove himself over the next couple of years. With Rooey going in 2-3 years there is the whole forward line to fill going forward. If Billings plays midfield, then McCartin is the only forward I would be confident will lock in a permanent spot (early call I know but he just looks the goods).The same with our backline - its wide open for spots to take over from Fisher, Dempster, Gilbert etc. The reason we are at the bottom is that we haven't had that next generation lock in their spots in the best 22. We've still got a lot of wheat to sort from the chaff over the next couple of seasons and all players will get their fair go at it.

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