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Con Gorozidis wrote:How do people feel about Longer v Pierce?
I know Billy will get plenty of opportunities because he was a high draft pick and highly rated junior. To me Lewis looks like a better all round player but will we use Billy as a human battering ram with his big body?
At this stage none of those two would get a game at any other AFL club IMO.
Longer has the developed body to get to and contest more ball ups/throw ins. There was one throw in against Hawthorn where we simply did not have a ruckman - it was a absurd.
Pierce seems to have better marking and 'around the ground' ability.
They are both decent at getting involved in the contest immediately after the ball up with tackling/smothering etc.
On balance it's probably even but if Longer is fit then he has to be given the first opportunity because he is older and more advanced in the system. If we played Pierce we'd essentially be writing Longer off after one season. Rucks need a lot of time to develop all aspects of their game and I think it's far too soon to draw a line through Longer. Pierce will get his chance.
I must have missed this Pierce promise. I have only seen him play 4 times but he looks like a VFL ruckman. I really want to be wrong with this because I don't rate Longer at all yet. We aren't going to be able to carry both Longer and Pierce at the end of the season if both don't play but the problem is if Longer doesn't play his value drops to just about nothing. Its Hickey's spot to lose and I cant see them ever playing 2 ruckman in the same game. I will probably be wrong in round one but what sides play 2 ruckmen these days if they cant play in another position. You cant change them off the bench because it limits your midfield rotations.
Looking at notional versions of our round 1 side, we must be (overall) arguably the slowest side in AFL history?
All the best teams, like Freo, the Hawks and even Geelong (who continues to defy gravity) have recruited quick running players with plenty of skill for balance.
At some stage, if we want to eventually emulate these teams, we need to get this balance right too.
samoht wrote:Looking at notional versions of our round 1 side, we must be (overall) arguably the slowest side in AFL history?
All the best teams, like Freo, the Hawks and even Geelong (who continues to defy gravity) have recruited quick running players with plenty of skill for balance.
At some stage, if we want to eventually emulate these teams, we need to get this balance right too.
We are so slow. If you watch other teams play and then watch us we are like crabs. Only Jack Steven is capable of moving in a fwd direction out of traffic.
Slight side-issue and I know its been covered before. But along with maybe the Tigers and Pies - will we be the only side in the comp in rd 1 without an indigenous player?
I went and watched the Tiwi Island grand final last week. Great game.
samoht wrote:Looking at notional versions of our round 1 side, we must be (overall) arguably the slowest side in AFL history?
All the best teams, like Freo, the Hawks and even Geelong (who continues to defy gravity) have recruited quick running players with plenty of skill for balance.
At some stage, if we want to eventually emulate these teams, we need to get this balance right too.
We have a few speedsters but so far aren't knocking down doors. Wright, Savage, Saunders and Saad are all quick but don't get it enough yet.
Once we get back Webster, Gilbert, Savage and play white we'll look a fair bit faster, Even so at some stage it'll have to be addressed in recruiting with taking the best available doesn't always mean you get what you need. Hopefully we'll look at a speedsters in the draft next year
Playon wrote:Once we get back Webster, Gilbert, Savage and play white we'll look a fair bit faster, Even so at some stage it'll have to be addressed in recruiting with taking the best available doesn't always mean you get what you need. Hopefully we'll look at a speedsters in the draft next year
Agree.
From what I have see our quickest players are:
Savage, Webster, Steven
We need these three guys on the park week in week out.
After that you are looking at Saad and Wright next in line.
Dempster Delaney Geary
Newnes Fisher Savage
Acres Armitage Weller
Templeton Bruce Membrey
Lonie Riewoldt Billings
Hickey, Dunstan, Steven
Int: Longer, Shenton Curren SUB: Saad
Nice work Zed, I like this team, maybe just like to see Saad in instead of Eli or Lonie, mainly for a bit more of a mature body. Eli still looks a bit off his best, but I do like the look of Lonie, he looks very sharp, so overall, like your line up!
Actually - play spencer white instead of membrey! FFS enough of white developing in the 2's...he kicked a couple of goals at afl level last year and looked the part...play him!!
I would play White from Round 1 without hesitation. We are not a team where it's hard to break into due to strength across all positions, so for me it is open slather to see who steps up early, and we do need X-factor players although that type of erratic player doesn't fit well with process coaches like Richo. Membry will be handy at some stage too.
With Riewoldt attracting the attention of the best (and possible another) opposition defender, I think we will see the output of Bruce, Paddy and Membrey/White improve assuming it gets any sort of supply. The defensive side to our backline with Fisher, Dempster, Geary and Delaney is also good, possibly even very good on its day.
The success of the team depends entirely on the midfield and the attack from the backline.
Membrey did very well in the seconds in nsw. Very different from vfl level.
I'd make him step up in our 2nd tier comp until he gets a run. Big step up to vfl, let alone to afl level.
spert wrote:I would play White from Round 1 without hesitation. We are not a team where it's hard to break into due to strength across all positions, so for me it is open slather to see who steps up early, and we do need X-factor players although that type of erratic player doesn't fit well with process coaches like Richo. Membry will be handy at some stage too.
Who are unprocess coaches? The way I see it is that the hawks and the Swans have more of a process on how to play more than any other side bar Freo. Not a bad 3 process coaches.
FB: Sean Dempster, Luke Delaney, Cam Shenton
HB: Shane Savage, Sam Fisher, Jarryn Geary
C: Eli Templeton, Jack Steven, Jack Newnes
HF: Jack Billings, Nick Riewoldt, Tim Membrey
FF: Jack Lonie, Josh Bruce, Patrick McCartin
R: Tom Hickey, David Armitage, Luke Dunstan
INT: Blake Acres, Josh Saunders, Maverick Weller, Darren Minchington
I think the back line is a little short so Roberton may get a gig ahead of Minch
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
spert wrote:I would play White from Round 1 without hesitation. We are not a team where it's hard to break into due to strength across all positions, so for me it is open slather to see who steps up early, and we do need X-factor players although that type of erratic player doesn't fit well with process coaches like Richo. Membry will be handy at some stage too.
Who are unprocess coaches? The way I see it is that the hawks and the Swans have more of a process on how to play more than any other side bar Freo. Not a bad 3 process coaches.
Does that also come with maturity and quality of the list though?
A bunch of kids that have barely left school against a core group of adults +26 years of age would surely be more coachable?
spert wrote:I would play White from Round 1 without hesitation. We are not a team where it's hard to break into due to strength across all positions, so for me it is open slather to see who steps up early, and we do need X-factor players although that type of erratic player doesn't fit well with process coaches like Richo. Membry will be handy at some stage too.
Who are unprocess coaches? The way I see it is that the hawks and the Swans have more of a process on how to play more than any other side bar Freo. Not a bad 3 process coaches.
Coaches like Clarkson, Lyon and Longmire stamped a definite style on their teams immediately, and it was obvious what they were up to, wheras Richo has shown nothing yet with one season gone, and he needs to make sure potential match winners are given every opportunity from day one. I would say the pressure is on the experienced players as much as the inexperienced after last season.
spert wrote:Coaches like Clarkson, Lyon and Longmire stamped a definite style on their teams immediately...
Clarkson's team won 5 games in his first season. Longmire took a team that had finished 5th the year before and guided them to 7th. Lyon's first year we missed the finals even though we'd played finals the three previous years.
So presumably the "style" they stamped on their teams was to lose more games?
spert wrote:Coaches like Clarkson, Lyon and Longmire stamped a definite style on their teams immediately...
Clarkson's team won 5 games in his first season. Longmire took a team that had finished 5th the year before and guided them to 7th. Lyon's first year we missed the finals even though we'd played finals the three previous years.
So presumably the "style" they stamped on their teams was to lose more games?
Not at all, it was to move away from what made a team either unable to win games or win enough games against good teams consistently (rebuilding vs actually being better than 4th)
I know what Spert is saying, Richo doesn't have any obvious game plan or obvious points of difference in his coaching style. Those guys he mentions are from that Paul Roos school, process and systems over individual brilliance. He pioneered the basketball style press and zone style defensive set up all over the ground that is the norm nowadays. The only team currently doing the old school thing is Port Adelaide where they are from the GT school of send the ball forward quickly and score more than your opponent. It's beautiful to watch. Geelong used the skills of their players to make them selves an offensively driven team too. Haks probably have the perfect set up of both equally.
Roberton said he felt this year all the players were really strong on how the game plan was supposed to work and thinks we should get some improvement because of it. Perhaps the team couldn't seem to implement the plan under pressure last year. We might actually find out what the game plan is if he's right.
spert wrote:I would play White from Round 1 without hesitation. We are not a team where it's hard to break into due to strength across all positions, so for me it is open slather to see who steps up early, and we do need X-factor players although that type of erratic player doesn't fit well with process coaches like Richo. Membry will be handy at some stage too.
Who are unprocess coaches? The way I see it is that the hawks and the Swans have more of a process on how to play more than any other side bar Freo. Not a bad 3 process coaches.
Coaches like Clarkson, Lyon and Longmire stamped a definite style on their teams immediately, and it was obvious what they were up to, wheras Richo has shown nothing yet with one season gone, and he needs to make sure potential match winners are given every opportunity from day one. I would say the pressure is on the experienced players as much as the inexperienced after last season.
This is ridiculous. Richo was handed a rabble of a list and then hit with a momentous injury list.
spert wrote:Coaches like Clarkson, Lyon and Longmire stamped a definite style on their teams immediately...
Clarkson's team won 5 games in his first season. Longmire took a team that had finished 5th the year before and guided them to 7th. Lyon's first year we missed the finals even though we'd played finals the three previous years.
So presumably the "style" they stamped on their teams was to lose more games?
Not at all, it was to move away from what made a team either unable to win games or win enough games against good teams consistently (rebuilding vs actually being better than 4th)
So after Clarkson's first year, when he'd won five games, you guys are saying that it was obvious that he was going to win multiple premierships?
I cannot understand the lack of support for Jack Sinclair. On form he should be one of the first mid-fielders picked, after the other Jack S. of course.
