Skill level

[FQF]

By far the biggest difference between the two teams was skill level (and picking the right target, which I include under skill level).

How is this fixed? Is it fixable? Was it just a bad night?

Was it caused by Hawthorn's pressure/zone? Nerves? Or are our players innately less skilled to the point that it's a lost cause?

It is very concerning and the idea of drafting 3-4 players a new with good skills seems like an awfully long process to rectify the issue.

[barneyboyz]

By far the biggest difference between the two teams was skill level (and picking the right target, which I include under skill level).

How is this fixed? Is it fixable? Was it just a bad night?

Was it caused by Hawthorn's pressure/zone? Nerves? Or are our players innately less skilled to the point that it's a lost cause?

It is very concerning and the idea of drafting 3-4 players a new with good skills seems like an awfully long process to rectify the issue.

Early on I thought we matched them in 'pressure', but when that created a turnover, we just gave it back...even our more senior players

I am looking at glass half full here, there will be incremental improvements with some setbacks, but I hope there's a Bradley Hill type in the draft this year, oh and a Rioli, Gunston and a Mitchell wouldn't hurt atm either

[SemperFidelis]

It was concerning, wasn't it, but given the circumstances I'm going to reserve judgment and go with the pressure/inexperience theory.

Whatever else they've been doing over at Hawthorn for the past 5 years, one thing's for sure, they can all hit a target. Whilst recruiting highly skilled players is always on the wishlist, I refuse to believe that this is something that can't be improved across the board.

[Playon]

Well skills can be improved with practice, and what to do under pressure comes with experience. Personally I thought the biggest difference between the sides was pace or the most worrying. They ran off our players almost with arrogance.

[Junction Oval]

In general terms, we have known our key shortfalls for several years now - (i) Kicking skills and (ii) Leg speed.

My question is, "has our recruiting team addressed these key shortfalls." Answer - "not in any significant way." As we run into 2015, the same shortfalls are being commented on.

Hopefully, last night is not a reflection of the year to come. The Club needs to see "improvement" and last night did not deliver much at all. It needs to be acknowledged that we had a few key players out.

[Life Long Saint]

In general terms, we have known our key shortfalls for several years now - (i) Kicking skills and (ii) Leg speed.

My question is, "has our recruiting team addressed these key shortfalls." Answer - "not in any significant way." As we run into 2015, the same shortfalls are being commented on.

Hopefully, last night is not a reflection of the year to come. The Club needs to see "improvement" and last night did not deliver much at all. It needs to be acknowledged that we had a few key players out.

(i) will render (ii) redundant.
High kicking skills allows a team to move the ball quickly.

[matrix]

if you cant kick a footy at aged 18 the chances of getting much better and pinpoint at it are slim
gotta recruit good kickers
its the quickest way to move the ball from one end of the ground to the other

[FQF]

if you cant kick a footy at aged 18 the chances of getting much better and pinpoint at it are slim
gotta recruit good kickers
its the quickest way to move the ball from one end of the ground to the other

The counter is that most AFL players will hit a target at training under little/phantom pressure. If that's the case, the skill is there and it's a case of executing under pressure which is a mental/experience thing.

At least that is the hope...

[matrix]

dunno, there was a few reports at he intraclub that hte skills were average

[CURLY]

Skills will always look poor when there is nothing up field to kick to. Between Bruce, McCartin and Membury there is about five games AFL forward experience. Blokes would have looked up and second guessed a hell of a lot.

[barneyboyz]

Another thing I noticed was how Hawthorn hand passed behind to blind positions, they nearly always hit targets, something that only comes with practice. We'll get there

(Sorry, I seem to be having trouble cutting quotes in half- must be due to iPad)

[Con Gorozidis]

This why getting to the 50-80 game mark is so important.
Anyone can hit targets at training - but its much much harder under extreme pressure.
Its takes lots and lots of games (50-80) before most people can execute under pressure.
We need Billings, Savage and Webster playing every single week.
And then we still need to recruit two elite midfielders .

[SainterK]

It's made worse when people don't take the first option.

Forcing a 2-3 on 1 and the kicker to nail a pass, guys like Shenton and Wright just not up to that.

We looked better when we fumbled, and had to surge forward.

[WinnersOnly]

Movement to gain space (speed) when kicking and not second guessing themselves was half the problem. We handball out the back regardless of other options to players under just as much pressure and they try to kick with no forward momentum. Quick hands and the natural instinct to move with pace will assist...

We are not a naturally skilled or quick side and Hawthorn cut us up in both aspects. It was embarrassing to watch that we had no one to match the pace of Hill & Smith, no one to match the midfield spread and setups, no one to match to marking skills of Roughhead etc.

They talk about our list improving but there was not one ounce of evidence of that last night, if anything for the gap is getting bigger.

For me it showed the quantum difference between the top and bottom AFL side.

[Goose is king]

I would like a statistic on disposal efficiency by age throughout the competition.
Surely with more game understanding and composure decision making and efficiency would improve
This is probably a big part of our problem with a young list.
That said I would say Billings and Webster are the only players I'm really impressed with by foot.

[Wayne42]

I wonder what they do at the Saints player academy, maybe next semester they could introduce skills sessions...

[Playon]

if you cant kick a footy at aged 18 the chances of getting much better and pinpoint at it are slim
gotta recruit good kickers
its the quickest way to move the ball from one end of the ground to the other

So you're telling me we should never of picked up Holmes?

If we have players that are good kicks and good marks and slow, then we'd have to develop a game plan like the old Sydney game plan or the Ross Lyon at St Kilda game plan. Which doesn't work anymore.

Have you heard the expression that players are more athletes these days than footballers?

If a Fast player takes on a plodder and runs off him, he gets clear and kicks under no pressure, If a plodder takes on a Fast player, he either gets caught or has to kick/ pass under pressure or if its a mark/free he has to go back and take his kick and everyone has started flooding back.
So plodders skills have to be exceptional or they have to create space, a team of plodders is difficult for all.
Pressured kicking is not the fastest way to move it forward and may result in a turnover or further pressure and make our skills look worse. We need a couple of genuine quick players.

The other thing about skills is this time of year most players are below their own standards,

We got rid of CJ and Stanley for whatever reason but they were a couple of our faster players. Its looking good for Savage and Gilbert when they return and I thought White should've been given a game, is he injured? From what little we've seen he's willing to take the game on and isn't the slowest player out there. We miss the likes of Aussie and Gram.

[Con Gorozidis]

I would like a statistic on disposal efficiency by age throughout the competition.
Surely with more game understanding and composure decision making and efficiency would improve
This is probably a big part of our problem with a young list.
That said I would say Billings and Webster are the only players I'm really impressed with by foot.

Id like to see the DE isolated to the fwd half. I think we would be horrendous.
Our DE % is made to look better by plenty of uncontested backwards and back and forth in our back half. God we f*ck around with the ball. Its like we are daring the opposition to intercept and steal it off us and score an easy turnover goal. So often they oblige.

[Bluthy]

if you cant kick a footy at aged 18 the chances of getting much better and pinpoint at it are slim
gotta recruit good kickers
its the quickest way to move the ball from one end of the ground to the other

This. Plus if you have a good system like Hawthorn then it makes players disposal look even better because they always have open options to kick/handball too. Put Shenton in Hawthorn and he'd probably start to look like Aussie Jones.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

People highlight Hawthorn's kicking skills a lot (with good reason), and it's undoubtedly a factor for them, but I actually thought the main difference in skill on Thursday was in ball-handling and quick handpassing in close around congestion/stoppages.

St Kilda fumbled so much in close compared to the Hawks; whenever Hawthorn latched onto the ball in a congested situation they were so clean with it, and so quick in extracting it from a tight space via quick handpassing.

This is a knock-on effect to their 'kicking game' in that it means guys like Hill, Isaac Smith, Cyril etc are much more confident of running forward of the ball because they know that once their teammates get hands on it, that it's going to get out of congestion quickly and without a turnover.