Jack Billings

[dragit]

Look at the brilliant systems that Clarkson is putting in and the versatility he is adding to his team.

Haha!

Yes, Clarkson's brilliant system - the one that utilizes outside mids with pace and skill.

[Bluthy]

Look at the brilliant systems that Clarkson is putting in and the versatility he is adding to his team.

Haha!

Yes, Clarkson's brilliant system - the one that utilizes outside mids with pace and skill.

Every team wants pace in the modern game. Their system rotate these guys rotate around from wingers to on ball to pushing forward otherwise they would quickly get their supply blocked. Versatility you see, tis the key.

[St Ick]

Before bagging posters about commenting about their knowledge of their endurance Bluthy should probably read the OP and see the comments re this exact issue.

"He came to us obviously as a highly-rated junior, but probably got by on having a lot of skill rather than being a genuine athlete" - from article

Maybe St Ick should take a comprehensive reading class. You know its ok to say "hey this is a bit of an unknown. I'm not sure how things will pan out". I think its brilliant that Billings will be played in the midfield. But lets see how he goes with the brutal running required of an AFL mid. He's already tweaked his hammy. We just don't know how he's going to cope with an on ball role and the marathon they have to run

Get a life and stop playing the man champ. This is the next paragraph in the article...

“But he’s improved out of sight both in his running capacity and in the gym.

He was injured in his U18 year, he was injured last pre season - so didnt have that base and he subsequently got injured and got by on his pure ability.

But now he is injury free he has been able to build a reasonable fitness base as evidenced by the article - obviously will need a few full preseasons to fully develop into a bone fide midfielder but is well on the way.

[magnifisaint]

I don't care for anyone's opinion on here. I just hope Billings turns into a gun

[plugger66]

Look at the brilliant systems that Clarkson is putting in and the versatility he is adding to his team.

Haha!

Yes, Clarkson's brilliant system - the one that utilizes outside mids with pace and skill.

Every team wants pace in the modern game. Their system rotate these guys rotate around from wingers to on ball to pushing forward otherwise they would quickly get their supply blocked. Versatility you see, tis the key.

Yep but they don't try and make outside runners into inside mids. And more than anything is that Hawthorn play to their strengths. Jack has the potential to be a very good outside mid and a very good HFF when resting. That is how he will play because its natural.

[Bluthy]

Yep but they don't try and make outside runners into inside mids. And more than anything is that Hawthorn play to their strengths. Jack has the potential to be a very good outside mid and a very good HFF when resting. That is how he will play because its natural.

Predictable = shut down in the grand final = heart breaking Sainters loss again = suicidal supporters

Billings inside game winning own ball + and outside game + marking + goals + creative disposal + linking back to forwards = unstoppable = Norm Smith medallist = Premiership = blissful sainters supporters

You can't argue with mathematics. Anyway Thommo confirms he has a good inside game so he'd be mad not to "play to his strengths"

[plugger66]

Yep but they don't try and make outside runners into inside mids. And more than anything is that Hawthorn play to their strengths. Jack has the potential to be a very good outside mid and a very good HFF when resting. That is how he will play because its natural.

Predictable = shut down in the grand final = heart breaking Sainters loss again = suicidal supporters

Billings inside game winning own ball + and outside game + marking + goals + creative disposal + linking back to forwards = unstoppable = Norm Smith medallist = Premiership = blissful sainters supporters

You can't argue with mathematics. Anyway Thommo confirms he has a good inside game so he'd be mad not to "play to his strengths"

No depth was our reason for losing GF. Swans and Hawks are the most predictable sides in the AFL now. That second last paragraph is just emotive words. I can do that to. Outside run goals GF. Winning. Why do more players kick on their strong foot now than 15 years ago?

[Bluthy]

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-03-0 ... -hamstrung

I hope we play ultra cautious with Jacks return. This is the second tweak of his hammy. It could be nothing but why not give him at least a month off if not six weeks. His future is what matters not now. I know they are keen to get games into the quality young players for their development but they should be erring on the side of caution. We've got other players we need to test out - Lonie would be a great replacement for him in the 22 or Saad who we need to see what he can deliver after his break.

[saintspremiers]

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-03-0 ... -hamstrung

I hope we play ultra cautious with Jacks return. This is the second tweak of his hammy. It could be nothing but why not give him at least a month off if not six weeks. His future is what matters not now. I know they are keen to get games into the quality young players for their development but they should be erring on the side of caution. We've got other players we need to test out - Lonie would be a great replacement for him in the 22 or Saad who we need to see what he can deliver after his break.

When the coach says its a bummer and isn't downplaying the injury makes me think it's significant.

The real season is 5 weeks away. Can he play in round 1 with no further nab praccy matches as warmups?

[loris]

Reading how the lad had put on muscle over the off season, was it 4 0r 5 kilos......... I hope they haven't built him up too quickly with weights and it's going to put a strain on his legs/hammies.

IMHO got to be very careful adding too much mass to young bodies that are still developing. I'm sure (I hope) our fitness people are being very cautious with his development.

[loris]

At least Billings' injury should only keep him out for a few weeks or so, I hope. Not so for Liberatore (Doggies) & McKenzie (Eagles)........... their season have ended with ACL injuries.

[Con Gorozidis]

I dont want to get into the outside v inside thing because I dont think it is a true black and white argument.
I dont think anyone can get away with being a purely outside player these days. A 100% outside player wont survive because there are always times in a game where a player is exposed one on one and will be at least expected by the coach to break even in those situations. Look at Brad Hill. He is predominantly 'outside' but plenty of times I have seen him exposed one on one and he wins more than he loses in those situations. He can win a contested ball and often does. At worst he breaks even and holds it up. You dont want a player who is great outside but cant even compete when its their turn.

What I do notice though is that now when a side wins a contest that 4 or 5 blokes run ahead of the ball like utter lunatics ('the spread'). In the old days this used to be called 'cheating' but these days it is considered a legitimate and sometimes the only way to move the ball fwd and attack and cause defences to be vulnerable. The difference these days is instead of the players that run fwd stopping for a breather if the ball gets turned over - now they are expected to quickly turn around and run back like lunatics the other direction to work in defence. This means the idea of 'cheating' has now been replaced by 'working hard both ways'.

[dragit]

I dont want to get into the outside v inside thing because I dont think it is a true black and white argument.
I dont think anyone can get away with being a purely outside player these days. A 100% outside player wont survive because there are always times in a game where a player is exposed one on one and will be at least expected by the coach to break even in those situations. Look at Brad Hill. He is predominantly 'outside' but plenty of times I have seen him exposed one on and on and he wins more than he loses in those situations. He can win a contested ball and often does. At worst he breaks even and holds it up. You dont want a player who is great outside but cant even compete when its their turn.

What I do notice though is that now when a side wins a contest that 4 or 5 blokes run ahead of the ball like utter lunatics ('the spread'). In the old days this used to be called 'cheating' but these days it is considered a legitimate and sometimes the only way to move the ball fwd and attack and cause defences to be vulnerable. The difference these days is instead of the players that run fwd stopping for a breather if the ball gets turned over - now they are expected to quickly turn around and run back like lunatics the other direction to work in defence. This means the idea of 'cheating' has now become 'working hard both ways'.

I don't think anyone said that a player will do a role 100% of the time and not deviate from the plan. Full forwards run the entire ground these days.

The argument with bluthy here is about whether an "outside mid" role even exists... Which it does.

Outside players aren't soft or scared of contests, but they have a specific role which utilised their run &/or foot skills... So they are ideally not at the bottom of packs.

[Con Gorozidis]

I dont want to get into the outside v inside thing because I dont think it is a true black and white argument.
I dont think anyone can get away with being a purely outside player these days. A 100% outside player wont survive because there are always times in a game where a player is exposed one on one and will be at least expected by the coach to break even in those situations. Look at Brad Hill. He is predominantly 'outside' but plenty of times I have seen him exposed one on and on and he wins more than he loses in those situations. He can win a contested ball and often does. At worst he breaks even and holds it up. You dont want a player who is great outside but cant even compete when its their turn.

What I do notice though is that now when a side wins a contest that 4 or 5 blokes run ahead of the ball like utter lunatics ('the spread'). In the old days this used to be called 'cheating' but these days it is considered a legitimate and sometimes the only way to move the ball fwd and attack and cause defences to be vulnerable. The difference these days is instead of the players that run fwd stopping for a breather if the ball gets turned over - now they are expected to quickly turn around and run back like lunatics the other direction to work in defence. This means the idea of 'cheating' has now become 'working hard both ways'.

I don't think anyone said that a player will do a role 100% of the time and not deviate from the plan. Full forwards run the entire ground these days.

The argument with bluthy here is about whether an "outside mid" role even exists... Which it does.

Outside players aren't soft or scared of contests, but they have a specific role which utilised their run &/or foot skills... So they are ideally not at the bottom of packs.

Ok I dont want to get dragged into the bluthy argument but as I said I dont believe there is such thing as a pure outsider and a pure insider.
I see it as a spectrum with inside at one end and outside on the other end and each individual player fits somewhere along it. For a list manager you want a nice spread of talent across the spectrum but anyone who is 'extreme' i.e extreme 'inside' or extreme 'outside' probably wont last at AFL level.

At lower levels you will probably find some guys who literally only play outside or only play inside and thats it.

But yeah agree that if you are along the outside spectrum and mainly focus your work on the spread - you would still be expected to be competitive in the contest at AFL level when your time comes and the situation calls for it. I think Billings has shown he goes ok when he is in that situation but hes not getting in that situation 100 times a game like say Ross is.

This would be easier to present with some visual aids

[plugger66]

I dont want to get into the outside v inside thing because I dont think it is a true black and white argument.
I dont think anyone can get away with being a purely outside player these days. A 100% outside player wont survive because there are always times in a game where a player is exposed one on one and will be at least expected by the coach to break even in those situations. Look at Brad Hill. He is predominantly 'outside' but plenty of times I have seen him exposed one on and on and he wins more than he loses in those situations. He can win a contested ball and often does. At worst he breaks even and holds it up. You dont want a player who is great outside but cant even compete when its their turn.

What I do notice though is that now when a side wins a contest that 4 or 5 blokes run ahead of the ball like utter lunatics ('the spread'). In the old days this used to be called 'cheating' but these days it is considered a legitimate and sometimes the only way to move the ball fwd and attack and cause defences to be vulnerable. The difference these days is instead of the players that run fwd stopping for a breather if the ball gets turned over - now they are expected to quickly turn around and run back like lunatics the other direction to work in defence. This means the idea of 'cheating' has now become 'working hard both ways'.

I don't think anyone said that a player will do a role 100% of the time and not deviate from the plan. Full forwards run the entire ground these days.

The argument with bluthy here is about whether an "outside mid" role even exists... Which it does.

Outside players aren't soft or scared of contests, but they have a specific role which utilised their run &/or foot skills... So they are ideally not at the bottom of packs.

Ok I dont want to get dragged into the bluthy argument but as I said I dont believe there is such thing as a pure outsider and a pure insider.
I see it as a spectrum with inside at one end and outside on the other end and each individual player fits somewhere along it. For a list manager you want a nice spread of talent across the spectrum but anyone who is 'extreme' i.e extreme 'inside' or extreme 'outside' probably wont last at AFL level.

At lower levels you will probably find some guys who literally only play outside or only play inside and thats it.

But yeah agree that if you are along the outside spectrum and mainly focus your work on the spread - you would still be expected to be competitive in the contest at AFL level when your time comes and the situation calls for it. I think Billings has shown he goes ok when he is in that situation but hes not getting in that situation 100 times a game like say Ross is.

This would be easier to present with some visual aids

I don't think anyone is saying any player is pure inside or outside player but I would guess that a player who gets less than 30% contested ball would be classed as out side, 30 to say 45% would be classed and an in and out player and about 50% would be an inside player. No player in the AFL these days can play a game without at least getting some contested ball but they could still be an outside runner. I reckon Billings will be a great outside runner who as you say will go get his own ball when the situation presents but I don't think we need him to constantly get his own ball. We have enough of those players already.

[falka]

So any news on his hammy?

[gringo]

Look at the brilliant systems that Clarkson is putting in and the versatility he is adding to his team.

Haha!

Yes, Clarkson's brilliant system - the one that utilizes outside mids with pace and skill.

Every team wants pace in the modern game. Their system rotate these guys rotate around from wingers to on ball to pushing forward otherwise they would quickly get their supply blocked. Versatility you see, tis the key.

Yep but they don't try and make outside runners into inside mids. And more than anything is that Hawthorn play to their strengths. Jack has the potential to be a very good outside mid and a very good HFF when resting. That is how he will play because its natural.

I hate to agree with you Plugger but I do, it seems like when ever you get a player that is good at something everyone rushes to turn him into something else. It's like a ridiculous fashion ATM. I saw on big footy someone was saying Stringer from the Dogs might move into the midfield. He's an undersized KPF like Membery. He is ridiculously good at it they want him to stop what he does well and do what aren't his strengths. Stupidity.

On Dal I think his stats were misleading somewhat. They classify a contested possession as being with in a couple of meters of an opposition player, not quite the same as Lenny diving head down to scrap a ball out when you use your clean hands and poise to manoeuvre through traffic which he is very good at.I saw Billings at training doing the mid drills and he was getting the ball off the ground cleanly and manoeuvring around the pack, he is more Dal than Lenny but still able to do more and just "Joe the goose" while running past as BM would call it.

[Sainternist]

So any news on his hammy?

He'll be sidelined for four weeks. Will hopefully be okay for Round 1.

[Stephen Theodore]

So any news on his hammy?

He'll be sidelined for four weeks. Will hopefully be okay for Round 1.

I thought it looked more than tightness as he limped off on Saturday.

[Saints94]

Struggling to be fit by round 1, I hear..

not good, maybe the bulking up has put some strain on his hamstrings etc?

[SemperFidelis]

Interview with Jack up on the website.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-03-0 ... -round-one

[saintbrat]

Interview with Jack up on the website.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-03-0 ... -round-one

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2015-03- ... -round-one

[Bluthy]

Look at the brilliant systems that Clarkson is putting in and the versatility he is adding to his team.

Haha!

Yes, Clarkson's brilliant system - the one that utilizes outside mids with pace and skill.

Every team wants pace in the modern game. Their system rotate these guys rotate around from wingers to on ball to pushing forward otherwise they would quickly get their supply blocked. Versatility you see, tis the key.

Yep but they don't try and make outside runners into inside mids. And more than anything is that Hawthorn play to their strengths. Jack has the potential to be a very good outside mid and a very good HFF when resting. That is how he will play because its natural.

I hate to agree with you Plugger but I do, it seems like when ever you get a player that is good at something everyone rushes to turn him into something else. It's like a ridiculous fashion ATM. I saw on big footy someone was saying Stringer from the Dogs might move into the midfield. He's an undersized KPF like Membery. He is ridiculously good at it they want him to stop what he does well and do what aren't his strengths. Stupidity.

On Dal I think his stats were misleading somewhat. They classify a contested possession as being with in a couple of meters of an opposition player, not quite the same as Lenny diving head down to scrap a ball out when you use your clean hands and poise to manoeuvre through traffic which he is very good at.I saw Billings at training doing the mid drills and he was getting the ball off the ground cleanly and manoeuvring around the pack, he is more Dal than Lenny but still able to do more and just "Joe the goose" while running past as BM would call it.

Its called variety, complexity, and multi-facaeted play Gringo and is a hallmark of the team that has just won back to back flags. Did you remember what they did to us last year? I've never seen such confused players as ours were, half the time they didn't know who they were meant to be on let alone whether to run forward or backward or chase their man or fill a hole. Hawthorn pull you in so many directions until you break because they have so many options - plan a, plan b, plan c, plan d, plan e..... They beat the brilliant hard running Port with their own run and carry and then followed it up by beating the hard ball focus of Swans at their own game and smashing them on the outside. If you are not moving forward, you are going backwards in this ruthless and relentless competition. So many people seem stuck in a way of football that is out of date. The huge increase in resources of footy clubs means they can unpack one dimensional teams and players no matter how good there are. We should have learnt that lesson the most painful way by now.

[plugger66]

Look at the brilliant systems that Clarkson is putting in and the versatility he is adding to his team.

Haha!

Yes, Clarkson's brilliant system - the one that utilizes outside mids with pace and skill.

Every team wants pace in the modern game. Their system rotate these guys rotate around from wingers to on ball to pushing forward otherwise they would quickly get their supply blocked. Versatility you see, tis the key.

Yep but they don't try and make outside runners into inside mids. And more than anything is that Hawthorn play to their strengths. Jack has the potential to be a very good outside mid and a very good HFF when resting. That is how he will play because its natural.

I hate to agree with you Plugger but I do, it seems like when ever you get a player that is good at something everyone rushes to turn him into something else. It's like a ridiculous fashion ATM. I saw on big footy someone was saying Stringer from the Dogs might move into the midfield. He's an undersized KPF like Membery. He is ridiculously good at it they want him to stop what he does well and do what aren't his strengths. Stupidity.

On Dal I think his stats were misleading somewhat. They classify a contested possession as being with in a couple of meters of an opposition player, not quite the same as Lenny diving head down to scrap a ball out when you use your clean hands and poise to manoeuvre through traffic which he is very good at.I saw Billings at training doing the mid drills and he was getting the ball off the ground cleanly and manoeuvring around the pack, he is more Dal than Lenny but still able to do more and just "Joe the goose" while running past as BM would call it.

Its called variety, complexity, and multi-facaeted play Gringo and is a hallmark of the team that has just won back to back flags. Did you remember what they did to us last year? I've never seen such confused players as ours were, half the time they didn't know who they were meant to be on let alone whether to run forward or backward or chase their man or fill a hole. Hawthorn pull you in so many directions until you break because they have so many options - plan a, plan b, plan c, plan d, plan e..... They beat the brilliant hard running Port with their own run and carry and then followed it up by beating the hard ball focus of Swans at their own game and smashing them on the outside. If you are not moving forward, you are going backwards in this ruthless and relentless competition. So many people seem stuck in a way of football that is out of date. The huge increase in resources of footy clubs means they can unpack one dimensional teams and players no matter how good there are. We should have learnt that lesson the most painful way by now.

Hawthorn and Sydney play the same style of play against any side. They don't deviate at all and apart from having better players that is also a reason for their success. Billings will be played as an outside running mid and HFF who like every player in the AFL will get his own ball when required.