Saints homeward bound!!

[loris]

Loris, who'd have thought you were a ratbag?

I won't say I became a born again Christian and was saved 'st byron'..................... just an English teacher I had at high school who thankfully reigned me in and pointed me in a different direction in life. I've been eternally grateful to that honourable man, believe me.



From memory, and it's a little distant, the Jordy Sharps used to sit at the exit to the tunnel under the tracks. So anyone getting off there had to run the gauntlet past them, like it or not.

Many a time, I would get off the train at Jordy, realise they were down near the tunnel......... so I would clamber under the wire fence into the Riversdale Golflinks, then have to walk hundreds of metres across the golf links, before it was safe to emerge then have to backtrack your way through streets to get home


I was replete with skivvies or a Miller shirt and a lumber jacket so I would have been easy meat for them.

[bergsone]

Memories hey kids...........Good tough footy too

[Dave McNamara]

Meanwhile, back in St Kilda...

[Dr Spaceman]

Meanwhile, back in St Kilda...

Are you suggesting we move back to JO and that we take to the field with guitars Dave?

Puts a whole new meaning to "Plugger's on the lead"

[Dave McNamara]

Meanwhile, back in St Kilda...

Are you suggesting we move back to JO and that we take to the field with guitars Dave?

Puts a whole new meaning to "Plugger's on the lead"

Not quite, Doc.

But, on a fine day, for the after match entertainment we move the social club outside... and set the place a rockin'.

[amusingname]

From Whitten Oval's Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitten_Oval

Capacity
15,000

and:

The ground previously seated up to 25,000. It is currently not used for AFL matches, but will host Victorian Football League matches from 2014.

[plugger66]

I don't think I've changed much and I appear to have upset you...sorry for that.

I can honestly say nothing upsets me on here. A family member or friend dying upsets me. I find this place hilarious. So no need to apologise but im not going anywhere. From your comment I suggest that may upset you though. Im here till I die or get expelled.

I would only be upset if I upset you and I didn't imply that you should leave.

On a side note you were talking percentages earlier , what would you reckon the percentage would be of you agreeing with someone ?

I agree with many people. I agree with Dragit about Billings and how he should be played. Im not going to say +1 Everytime I agree so I usually write when I don't agree. I think even in this thread some don't want to waste time on the JO so wouldn't that suggest I am agreeing with them.

[kosifantutti]

I moved a whole heap of posts that were either revisiting old arguments or just way off topic to the animal enclosure.

In the meantime, here's some stuff about the Saints getting involved in St Kilda.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-03-0 ... -to-etihad

A block of nine Sunday fixtures in a 10-match period mid-season has encouraged the club to incorporate game-day events in the heart of St Kilda beforehand.

While plans are still in their infancy, the Saints are exploring the possibility of arranging transport from their heartland to the game to allow fans to arrive en masse.

Come along to our next open training session, in Sandringham on March 6 - Details HERE.

The Saints conducted extensive research on their fans' experiences with the club and have resolved to take themselves to their supporters, rather than rely on them engaging at the Seaford base.

Aspects of the Saints' overall fan-experience strategy will be to tap into the eclectic nature of St Kilda's Acland Street centre, with a welcoming and inclusive philosophy at matches.

And, they'll also look to turn some of their weekly captain's runs at Moorabbin into a fan event.

Over summer, the Saints made a point of holding some media opportunities in alternative locations to Seaford, with the leadership group revealed in Acland Street and their new principal partner Dare Ice Coffee announced on St Kilda Beach.

[Dave McNamara]

Instead of writing emotive rubbish can you logical explain why CV would let games be played on the ground during cricket season when no other city ground does that and that is one of the reasons games are played all over the place? There will never be an AFL home and away game ever played at the JO. And there is probably just as little hope of a practice match ever being played there either. Its illogical. Time to get another hobby Dave because this one is done and dusted.

I've covered that before P66.

Victoria's last Shield match is a home game and finishes March 9th. They didn't make the final.
If Victoria made it to a home final, that gives a latest possible finish scenario of March 25th.

The District season finishes at the end of February.
If the St Kilda CC made it all the way through to a home final, then that's March 25th.

So, 'best case' scenario (in terms of ground availability post-cricket season) if both Victoria and St Kilda CC miss the finals, is that their cricket seasons finish at the end of February.

'Worst case' (in terms of needing the ground for cricket) would be if either of them qualified for a home final, which would mean needing the ground till late March.

In other words, there would be some seasons when the ground wouldn't be available for pre-season footy games, but no seasons when the ground wouldn't be finished with cricket in time to (eventually) play some AFL home n' away footy, and that's on top of the footy games already played there each winter season.


Hopefully that's unemotive enough and logical enough for you, P66...?

[plugger66]

Instead of writing emotive rubbish can you logical explain why CV would let games be played on the ground during cricket season when no other city ground does that and that is one of the reasons games are played all over the place? There will never be an AFL home and away game ever played at the JO. And there is probably just as little hope of a practice match ever being played there either. Its illogical. Time to get another hobby Dave because this one is done and dusted.

I've covered that before P66.

Victoria's last Shield match is a home game and finishes March 9th. They didn't make the final.
If Victoria made it to a home final, that gives a latest possible finish scenario of March 25th.

The District season finishes at the end of February.
If the St Kilda CC made it all the way through to a home final, then that's March 25th.

So, 'best case' scenario (in terms of ground availability post-cricket season) if both Victoria and St Kilda CC miss the finals, is that their cricket seasons finish at the end of February.

'Worst case' (in terms of needing the ground for cricket) would be if either of them qualified for a home final, which would mean needing the ground till late March.

In other words, there would be some seasons when the ground wouldn't be available for pre-season footy games, but no seasons when the ground wouldn't be finished with cricket in time to (eventually) play some AFL home n' away footy, and that's on top of the footy games already played there each winter season.


Hopefully that's unemotive enough and logical enough for you, P66...?

Yep Dave because the AFL are really going to agree to change a venue that late. You do realise the fixture for practice games is done in October? And no its still illogical because of the reason I mentioned. Even more illogical is you thinking CV would let us play at their ground. A ground that is totally theirs. We haven't even been given permission to share their training facilities and if that ever happens our training ground will be over the road. What benefit at all do CV get for letting us use their ground. Anyway I have pointed out why it wont be an issue anyway because the AFL aren't going to give us that fixture in October anyway.

And yep footy is played there now but they are going to have to move soon due to CV telling them to move.

[Dave McNamara]

Yep Dave because the AFL are really going to agree to change a venue that late. You do realise the fixture for practice games is done in October? And no its still illogical because of the reason I mentioned. Even more illogical is you thinking CV would let us play at their ground. A ground that is totally theirs. We haven't even been given permission to share their training facilities and if that ever happens our training ground will be over the road. What benefit at all do CV get for letting us use their ground. Anyway I have pointed out why it wont be an issue anyway because the AFL aren't going to give us that fixture in October anyway.

And yep footy is played there now but they are going to have to move soon due to CV telling them to move.

Ok, so we've established that the cricket season/s will be over in time.

Fair point re pre-season footy and how the AFL releases fixtures in October. What I'd say to that, is that fixture venues can be left a bit open, i.e. 'subject to ground availability', which in most cases would still be known comfortably in advance of a footy game scheduled for anywhere from late Feb to mid March.

I say that fixture venues can be left open, because we've already started doing that to a degree with the days/dates of the final round not being released till the end of Round 22 ladder positions are known.


CV letting us use the ground(?) Why not?
- Winter footy hasn't stopped the JO from having a great pitch and out field playing surface.
- Melbourne winters mean they can't play centre wicket turf cricket.
- Having us there would provide heaps of mutual synergies in terms of cross-pollination of ideas, contacts, funding submissions (i.e. better facilities), media opportunities, sponsorship opportunities...

Neither party needs to be in competition here. It's a case of each side gives a little (for CV if would be SFA little, too) for a big mutual win-win.

If CV's management can't envisage that, then they are incompetent, and not fit to run a bath... let alone an important organization such as Cricket Victoria!


(Now that's some emotion and logic for ya... which is what successful sport is based upon. )

[Con Gorozidis]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-pre ... 20Bulldogs eye AFL return to Whitten Oval

Can anyone tell me what we lose on a single game at Etihad. Say v GWS on a cold wet July Sunday afternoon?

[plugger66]

Yep Dave because the AFL are really going to agree to change a venue that late. You do realise the fixture for practice games is done in October? And no its still illogical because of the reason I mentioned. Even more illogical is you thinking CV would let us play at their ground. A ground that is totally theirs. We haven't even been given permission to share their training facilities and if that ever happens our training ground will be over the road. What benefit at all do CV get for letting us use their ground. Anyway I have pointed out why it wont be an issue anyway because the AFL aren't going to give us that fixture in October anyway.

And yep footy is played there now but they are going to have to move soon due to CV telling them to move.

Ok, so we've established that the cricket season/s will be over in time.

Fair point re pre-season footy and how the AFL releases fixtures in October. What I'd say to that, is that fixture venues can be left a bit open, i.e. 'subject to ground availability', which in most cases would still be known comfortably in advance of a footy game scheduled for anywhere from late Feb to mid March.

I say that fixture venues can be left open, because we've already started doing that to a degree with the days/dates of the final round not being released till the end of Round 22 ladder positions are known.


CV letting us use the ground(?) Why not?
- Winter footy hasn't stopped the JO from having a great pitch and out field playing surface.
- Melbourne winters mean they can't play centre wicket turf cricket.
- Having us there would provide heaps of mutual synergies in terms of cross-pollination of ideas, contacts, funding submissions (i.e. better facilities), media opportunities, sponsorship opportunities...

Neither party needs to be in competition here. It's a case of each side gives a little (for CV if would be SFA little, too) for a big mutual win-win.

If CV's management can't envisage that, then they are incompetent, and not fit to run a bath... let alone an important organization such as Cricket Victoria!


(Now that's some emotion and logic for ya... which is what successful sport is based upon. )

They are going to leave the fixture open for ground availability and again I base it on common sense. There are many times the MCG has been available when the pre season comp had a final but they didn't worry about saying it will be at the G if its available. They just put it at another ground in October.

And you didn't give me any reason what CV gain by having us play footy on their ground. They gain nothing that's why. There is no synergies and ideas from them watching a home and away game of us and GWS. A game that maybe 7K could attend. Yep we may make some money but we would piss off about 10K members who wouldn't fit in the ground. Dave still missing the logic that is required.

[Dave McNamara]

Fair point re pre-season footy and how the AFL releases fixtures in October. What I'd say to that, is that fixture venues can be left a bit open, i.e. 'subject to ground availability', which in most cases would still be known comfortably in advance of a footy game scheduled for anywhere from late Feb to mid March.

I say that fixture venues can be left open, because we've already started doing that to a degree with the days/dates of the final round not being released till the end of Round 22 ladder positions are known.


CV letting us use the ground(?) Why not?
- Winter footy hasn't stopped the JO from having a great pitch and out field playing surface.
- Melbourne winters mean they can't play centre wicket turf cricket.
- Having us there would provide heaps of mutual synergies in terms of cross-pollination of ideas, contacts, funding submissions (i.e. better facilities), media opportunities, sponsorship opportunities...

Neither party needs to be in competition here. It's a case of each side gives a little (for CV if would be SFA little, too) for a big mutual win-win.

If CV's management can't envisage that, then they are incompetent, and not fit to run a bath... let alone an important organization such as Cricket Victoria!


(Now that's some emotion and logic for ya... which is what successful sport is based upon. )

They are going to leave the fixture open for ground availability and again I base it on common sense. There are many times the MCG has been available when the pre season comp had a final but they didn't worry about saying it will be at the G if its available. They just put it at another ground in October.

And you didn't give me any reason what CV gain by having us play footy on their ground. They gain nothing that's why. There is no synergies and ideas from them watching a home and away game of us and GWS. A game that maybe 7K could attend. Yep we may make some money but we would piss off about 10K members who wouldn't fit in the ground. Dave still missing the logic that is required.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say in that first paragraph, Pluggs(?) Did you accidentally leave out 'not' as the third word in your first sentence?

Synergies? I listed (just some) them above. And a simple and substantial one to start with is that there'd be $25 million-odd (I don't remember the exact figure, can anyone help?) extra dollars available for the new facilities in a the deal that also involved us.

And at what 'cost' to CV? Virtually none, as I've also detailed above. (Coz unless global warming in Melbs' really ramps up, then they ain't playin' no winter Sheffield Shield matches! )

Again, it's not, and doesn't have to be, a competition. Mutual working together for mutual benefit is the smart way to go, surely. It's called having a... vision. Embrace it. (Worked for Wilbur and Orville. )


As for ground capacity... way more than 7000 could be accommodated at JO. Just look at some of the sub-20,000 crowd home games we've had at Dockedlands...

And if a 26,000 crowd costs us a $75K payout, what do those sub-20000 crowds cost...? (Shudder. )

So, you bet, I'm talkin' about logic here! More than that, I'm talkin'... imperative!

[plugger66]

Fair point re pre-season footy and how the AFL releases fixtures in October. What I'd say to that, is that fixture venues can be left a bit open, i.e. 'subject to ground availability', which in most cases would still be known comfortably in advance of a footy game scheduled for anywhere from late Feb to mid March.

I say that fixture venues can be left open, because we've already started doing that to a degree with the days/dates of the final round not being released till the end of Round 22 ladder positions are known.


CV letting us use the ground(?) Why not?
- Winter footy hasn't stopped the JO from having a great pitch and out field playing surface.
- Melbourne winters mean they can't play centre wicket turf cricket.
- Having us there would provide heaps of mutual synergies in terms of cross-pollination of ideas, contacts, funding submissions (i.e. better facilities), media opportunities, sponsorship opportunities...

Neither party needs to be in competition here. It's a case of each side gives a little (for CV if would be SFA little, too) for a big mutual win-win.

If CV's management can't envisage that, then they are incompetent, and not fit to run a bath... let alone an important organization such as Cricket Victoria!


(Now that's some emotion and logic for ya... which is what successful sport is based upon. )

They are going to leave the fixture open for ground availability and again I base it on common sense. There are many times the MCG has been available when the pre season comp had a final but they didn't worry about saying it will be at the G if its available. They just put it at another ground in October.

And you didn't give me any reason what CV gain by having us play footy on their ground. They gain nothing that's why. There is no synergies and ideas from them watching a home and away game of us and GWS. A game that maybe 7K could attend. Yep we may make some money but we would piss off about 10K members who wouldn't fit in the ground. Dave still missing the logic that is required.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say in that first paragraph, Pluggs(?) Did you accidentally leave out 'not' as the third word in your first sentence?

Synergies? I listed (just some) them above. And a simple and substantial one to start with is that there'd be $25 million-odd (I don't remember the exact figure, can anyone help?) extra dollars available for the new facilities in a the deal that also involved us.

And at what 'cost' to CV? Virtually none, as I've also detailed above. (Coz unless global warming in Melbs' really ramps up, then they ain't playin' no winter Sheffield Shield matches! )

Again, it's not, and doesn't have to be, a competition. Mutual working together for mutual benefit is the smart way to go, surely. It's called having a... vision. Embrace it. (Worked for Wilbur and Orville. )


As for ground capacity... way more than 7000 could be accommodated at JO. Just look at some of the sub-20,000 crowd home games we've had at Dockedlands...

And if a 26,000 crowd costs us a $75K payout, what do those sub-20000 crowds cost...? (Shudder. )

So, you bet, I'm talkin' about logic here! More than that, I'm talkin'... imperative!

Dave I don't know if you are deliberately avoiding the question but I will ask it again. Forget about us training with them because I am talking about actually using the ground. What benefit at all do CV get letting use the ground either for practice matches which is during their season or for a proper game. There is no synergies. They will basically own the ground, well certainly run it, and if there is no benefit to them why would they agree to it unless forced and I doubt that will happen as we cant even get permission to join them even though we maybe training over the road. Again there is no logic Dave. Also there was an article saying the ground will be set up for 7K people for cricket Dave. Removing site screens may add another 200 so it will hold 7200 so forget your made up figures because the others figures are facts. So you want 10K Saints supporters to miss out on a game Dave? It isn't ever going to happen. Now all I have written is either logic or fact. Again can you at least try to counter woth logic or fact and not the rubbish you keep writing.

[Con Gorozidis]

OK So even if our training base is at Ian Johnson but we play our two lowest crowd home games at the Junction (say v gws & port) that could save us maybe $300k per year. So our homes games might be something like 2 JO, 1 NZ, 8 Etihad. To do this we would need the JO to hold 15-20k which seems unlikely at this stage.

[Dave McNamara]

Plugs:
I gave one very good tangible mutual synergy... $25-odd million extra for the new facilities if we're part of the show. (I then listed some more for you.)

Time to chanel Wilbur and Orville... expand your vision, and embrace the vision... then watch our club fly.



Con:
Thanks for reinforcing the financial argument (imperative). And don't worry about ground capacity. We don't need many for the likes of those low drawing games you mentioned, that are currenlty bleeding us dry.

Cairns, Can'tberra, Darwin, The Alice, the WACA... how many do those AFL grounds hold?

The GABBA, Adelaide Oval, Subi, Carrara in their early days of hosting AFL footy...?

JO held 26,000+ only a few years back for the Community Cup... yes, people sitting inside the boundary fence like in those old Grand Finals won't cut it any more, but you get the picture...

Hillbilly home games net them $800K each time, and they average only 26,000 people to do that.

That same crowd at Dockedlands costs us $75K each time. And as you realise (though some seemingly don't yet) we can't keep effectively spotting the likes of the Hillbillies close to $1 million per home game, and hope to compete on a level footing.

[Dr Spaceman]

Dave, can you please provide a link to this $25 million you keep referring to.

I'm aware there was a fund available if the Napthine Government had've been returned, but it was stated that the Saints weren't to be part of JO under an ALP Government.

Presumably the AFL and Saints would still be looking to contribute, but without Government assistance I'm not sure where you get that enormous figure from..

Not saying you're wrong; would just like to see some documentary proof.

[dragit]

Dave, can you please provide a link to this $25 million you keep referring to.

I'm aware there was a fund available if the Napthine Government had've been returned, but it was stated that the Saints weren't to be part of JO under an ALP Government.

Presumably the AFL and Saints would still be looking to contribute, but without Government assistance I'm not sure where you get that enormous figure from..

Not saying you're wrong; would just like to see some documentary proof.

Cmon doc, dave doesn't deal in facts, he deals in hallucinogens & possibly opium.


Joking dave, joking

[plugger66]

Plugs:
I gave one very good tangible mutual synergy... $25-odd million extra for the new facilities if we're part of the show. (I then listed some more for you.)

Time to chanel Wilbur and Orville... expand your vision, and embrace the vision... then watch our club fly.



Con:
Thanks for reinforcing the financial argument (imperative). And don't worry about ground capacity. We don't need many for the likes of those low drawing games you mentioned, that are currenlty bleeding us dry.

Cairns, Can'tberra, Darwin, The Alice, the WACA... how many do those AFL grounds hold?

The GABBA, Adelaide Oval, Subi, Carrara in their early days of hosting AFL footy...?

JO held 26,000+ only a few years back for the Community Cup... yes, people sitting inside the boundary fence like in those old Grand Finals won't cut it any more, but you get the picture...

Hillbilly home games net them $800K each time, and they average only 26,000 people to do that.

That same crowd at Dockedlands costs us $75K each time. And as you realise (though some seemingly don't yet) we can't keep effectively spotting the likes of the Hillbillies close to $1 million per home game, and hope to compete on a level footing.

Dave you continue to not answer my direct question. What benefit do CV get for letting us play on the ground. I am not talking of using the facilities. If we go to the JO our ground will be over the road so tell me why they will let us have 2 grounds, one to train and one to play on? Its a simple question. And the test of your writing is made up rubbish. Who cares what other grounds held or hold. The JO is being upgraded to hold 7000. That is the official figure. I don't care if it held 500K previously. Moorabbin had 50kin the first game. It could probably get 5k in now. Of course we don't want to lose money when we play but we certainly don't want to play games where 7k turn up and many members cant get in. Anyway this is all rubbish because we wont get permission from CV to play at 2 grounds. Never. How about some facts and common sense instead of made up emotive crap.

[stinger]

when the saints were last at the junction oval..they were being screwed over by the cricket club ,whose ground it really was....very unhappy times dave...very unhappy.....through the foresight of huggins and drake, the saints moved to morrabbin where they promptly went on to win their first flag......happy times, dave...happy times....eventually the vfl/afl forced us out to waverley, then again to the dome.....s*** times dave and then a period of success...at the dome..but..we are still being screwed...by the afl and the creeps at etiad....we are basically paying off the ground for the afl and the other 17 clubs benefit.....the sooner we get ourselves back to moorabbin the better dave...forget all that pie in the sky wank about returning to our spiritual base ffs......it,s just not on the cards

[Bunk_Moreland]

when the saints were last at the junction oval..they were being screwed over by the cricket club ,whose ground it really was....very unhappy times dave...very unhappy.....through the foresight of huggins and drake, the saints moved to morrabbin where they promptly went on to win their first flag......happy times, dave...happy times....eventually the vfl/afl forced us out to waverley, then again to the dome.....s*** times dave and then a period of success...at the dome..but..we are still being screwed...by the afl and the creeps at etiad....we are basically paying off the ground for the afl and the other 17 clubs benefit.....the sooner we get ourselves back to moorabbin the better dave...forget all that pie in the sky wank about returning to our spiritual base ffs......it,s just not on the cards

Very interesting and good post. Would be happy to have the club back at Morrabbin. Wasn't about for the previous move, but the move to Waverley and Docklands has been less than acceptable off field (and while making GF's, we still haven't won a flag).

Not interested in JO. But would be happy to have the club once again based at Morrabbin.

[dragit]

So after winning one flag by one point we conclude that Moorabbin was a successful base?

How many spoons did we win there? 7?

Let's move to the best place for the future - wherever that is... not some emotional-based relic of a flag we won 50 years ago.

[gringo]

So after winning one flag by one point we conclude that Moorabbin was a successful base?

How many spoons did we win there? 7?

Let's move to the best place for the future - wherever that is... not some emotional-based relic of a flag we won 50 years ago.

I agree, Moorabin was not a happy home for people of my generation. It all comes back to finding a way to get out of our oppressive stadium deal though to me. JO could become a distraction while in the meantime the Dogs are a real chance to get to a point where they are able to play some interstate games at the Kennel. That means we are probably going to be needing to make up the difference for the stadium operators. The Cats get public money to upgrade their stadium which brings them $500 000 a game. We have to pay for the privilege of playing our home games at Etihad then get told we are poor financial managers and disdainfully ridiculed by teams like the Hawks. We should look at getting in on a deal with the Roos, Dogs etc and unionise to get the AFL to pay for their own stadium. Call their bluff and say we are going to need underwriting and not handouts. There is no way we should be paying their asset off while others question our credentials.

[Pleasing]

There appears to be 4 key questions being debated in this thread as potential reasons for a move back to the JO:

1. How do we ensure we have unrestricted access to an elite training facility and administration centre big enough to allow us to grow
2. How do we build our membership base to competitive levels with other clubs
3. How do we improve the financial returns for our 11 home games
4. How do we attract bigger sponsorship revenue competitive with other clubs

Ultimately the biggest influence on 2 - 3 and 4 above will be success on the field. A change of our training and admin facility might have indirect benefits on membership and sponsorship but that is marginal at best.

Major Sponsors care only how many eyes will be on their logo and how much goodwill they buy by being associated with the team. There are experts who calculate the value to the dollar of these types of deals. Maybe if we could call the JO - the Mitsubishi Centre that has move value than Linen House Oval in Seaford but given Cricket Victoria is the primary tenant even that option is probably not available to us.

Membership growth is driven by success where we train is not going sell one more membership - we have a set number of supporters today our success on the field determines what percentage of those supporters choose to become members and attend games. More than that our success determines how many opposition supporters want to attend when their team is playing the Saints.

Longer term it is success that breeds new supporters, kids in primary school either follow their Parents team or the teams at the top of the ladder. Even then the membership benefit of a sustained period of success is not really evident until that generation of primary school kids that jumped on board in Prep grow up and start buying their own memberships and having kids. Hawthorn were almost merged in the late 90's such was the dire state of their membership. The fact they now have 50K plus members is not because they won the flag in 2008 it is because they were the most successful side of the 80's. Those 80's kids are now all in their 30's and there are a lot of them.

As for playing games at the JO or Moorabin that will never happen. Geelong works because they are in Geelong and they never left, they own the town. More than 50% of the locals support them and support the council and local members of state government ploughing money into keeping them in Geelong. Cricket Victoria won't want one blade of grass disturbed on their new premier ground and neither should they. It would only be considered by them if they received the lions share of the match revenue which would kind of defeat the whole purpose for us. Ultimately it appears Cricket don't want us there and that pretty much kills the plan.

So the only tangible reason left for us to be part of this redevelopment is if we end up with state of the art facilities and room to expand at minimal long term financial cost to the club. All of which are possible but unlikely at the Junction particularly if we are the 2nd class tenant that it appears we will be and the State Government doesn't fund it.