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bigcarlosis wrote:Vision of the kid being carried off the ground exhausted after pre Xmas training session. Where were the sports science guys? With the current obsession with run and spread the health of young recruits could be compromised! Clubs with young lists like Dogs, Demons and us need to tread carefully and balance the clubs.need for.improvement with the health and longevity of the young guys.
So you associate him being exhausted from a cardio conditioning class before Christmas with him doing his ACL?
This event is really sad for the Dees, it's like a psychological shirt front. They just can't take a trick these days. If anything could go wrong it does, I'm almost ready to tip them for the spoon now- not because one player makes a difference more that it's just more confirmation of some kind of external force conspiring against them.
bigcarlosis wrote:Vision of the kid being carried off the ground exhausted after pre Xmas training session. Where were the sports science guys? With the current obsession with run and spread the health of young recruits could be compromised! Clubs with young lists like Dogs, Demons and us need to tread carefully and balance the clubs.need for.improvement with the health and longevity of the young guys.
So you associate him being exhausted from a cardio conditioning class before Christmas with him doing his ACL?
Strange and obtuse association in my opinion.
In this age of science based conditioning I thought it unusual that a professional football club would allow it's prized teenage recruit to be run into such a distressed state. I can think of a dozen reasons why this should not be allowed to happen. But, as the player has since broken down with soft tissue failure (acl) injury that the club says happened in a quite mundane way: "It was just part of a normal training drill. He came out to lead and just went to change direction and felt his knee twist.There was nothing really in the incident at all", to me it begs the question: is there a relationship between (possible) overtraining and his weakened soft tissues. A starting point would be to look at excess cortisol levels (bought about by overtraining) and the many ways this state may adversley affect a young athlete; http://firstendurance.com/2013/02/11/ho ... rformance/ http://www.castanet.net/news/Natural-He ... f-Cortisol
Of course the breakdown could have been due to one of many other factors but the connection between overtraining and physical breakdown may not be as "strange and obtuse" as you think, hopefully it's a subject that's "top of mind" with people at this club charged with overseeing the welfare of young players.
bigcarlosis wrote:Vision of the kid being carried off the ground exhausted after pre Xmas training session. Where were the sports science guys? With the current obsession with run and spread the health of young recruits could be compromised! Clubs with young lists like Dogs, Demons and us need to tread carefully and balance the clubs.need for.improvement with the health and longevity of the young guys.
So you associate him being exhausted from a cardio conditioning class before Christmas with him doing his ACL?
Strange and obtuse association in my opinion.
In this age of science based conditioning I thought it unusual that a professional football club would allow it's prized teenage recruit to be run into such a distressed state. I can think of a dozen reasons why this should not be allowed to happen. But, as the player has since broken down with soft tissue failure (acl) injury that the club says happened in a quite mundane way: "It was just part of a normal training drill. He came out to lead and just went to change direction and felt his knee twist.There was nothing really in the incident at all", to me it begs the question: is there a relationship between (possible) overtraining and his weakened soft tissues. A starting point would be to look at excess cortisol levels (bought about by overtraining) and the many ways this state may adversley affect a young athlete; http://firstendurance.com/2013/02/11/ho ... rformance/ http://www.castanet.net/news/Natural-He ... f-Cortisol
Of course the breakdown could have been due to one of many other factors but the connection between overtraining and physical breakdown may not be as "strange and obtuse" as you think, hopefully it's a subject that's "top of mind" with people at this club charged with overseeing the welfare of young players.
I think you will find every club would have players like that in pre season but they aren't number one draft picks so they aren't on TV. Anyway it would have nothing to do with any injury he received. They are monitored after every training session. Its called s*** happens.
bigcarlosis wrote:Vision of the kid being carried off the ground exhausted after pre Xmas training session. Where were the sports science guys? With the current obsession with run and spread the health of young recruits could be compromised! Clubs with young lists like Dogs, Demons and us need to tread carefully and balance the clubs.need for.improvement with the health and longevity of the young guys.
So you associate him being exhausted from a cardio conditioning class before Christmas with him doing his ACL?
Strange and obtuse association in my opinion.
In this age of science based conditioning I thought it unusual that a professional football club would allow it's prized teenage recruit to be run into such a distressed state. I can think of a dozen reasons why this should not be allowed to happen. But, as the player has since broken down with soft tissue failure (acl) injury that the club says happened in a quite mundane way: "It was just part of a normal training drill. He came out to lead and just went to change direction and felt his knee twist.There was nothing really in the incident at all", to me it begs the question: is there a relationship between (possible) overtraining and his weakened soft tissues. A starting point would be to look at excess cortisol levels (bought about by overtraining) and the many ways this state may adversley affect a young athlete; http://firstendurance.com/2013/02/11/ho ... rformance/ http://www.castanet.net/news/Natural-He ... f-Cortisol
Of course the breakdown could have been due to one of many other factors but the connection between overtraining and physical breakdown may not be as "strange and obtuse" as you think, hopefully it's a subject that's "top of mind" with people at this club charged with overseeing the welfare of young players.
I think you will find every club would have players like that in pre season but they aren't number one draft picks so they aren't on TV. Anyway it would have nothing to do with any injury he received. They are monitored after every training session. Its called s*** happens.
Jeez I hope Jack newness doesn't get some type of joint injury, saw him spewing up after a two k time trial in November. Obviously there is a direct correlation
It's one of the big questions, bigcarlosis and I think you are right to ask it. The fact is, if we could accurately predict serious soft tissue injuries then we would all be better off. The fact is that it is all a big gamble and i don't think anyone has the answer. No doubt many athletes are prone to soft tissue injuries, it's just that we don't yet have the technology to make accurate predictions of when that might occur. If you could crack that code, the world would beat a path to your door. The ACL injury seems to be one of the hardest to predict.
I always think of the Ox when this argument comes up. Built like a brick shithouse, with strong supporting muscles in his legs. Still did three ACL's although the variable in the last two was the fact that his weight had ballooned from 95 to 125 kg, placing incredible stresses on his joints. No doubt one day there will be a test that can accurately predict muscle and ligament tolerance so that clubs can be more discerning and selective in who they bring onto their lists and how they manage them. The human genome project, which gives us a complete makeup of the individual, probably holds the answer.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
White Winmar wrote:It's one of the big questions, bigcarlosis and I think you are right to ask it. The fact is, if we could accurately predict serious soft tissue injuries then we would all be better off. The fact is that it is all a big gamble and i don't think anyone has the answer. No doubt many athletes are prone to soft tissue injuries, it's just that we don't yet have the technology to make accurate predictions of when that might occur. If you could crack that code, the world would beat a path to your door. The ACL injury seems to be one of the hardest to predict.
I always think of the Ox when this argument comes up. Built like a brick shithouse, with strong supporting muscles in his legs. Still did three ACL's although the variable in the last two was the fact that his weight had ballooned from 95 to 125 kg, placing incredible stresses on his joints. No doubt one day there will be a test that can accurately predict muscle and ligament tolerance so that clubs can be more discerning and selective in who they bring onto their lists and how they manage them. The human genome project, which gives us a complete makeup of the individual, probably holds the answer.
The big guys played early are always a worry. Kruiser, Josh Fraser, Kosi etc all rucked and played early and had to manage a lot of issues through out their careers. Maybe the big guys struggle more?
numerous articles this pre season with paul roos stating " the toughest pre season so far but the game demands it" will be interesting to see if there is a correlation with an increase in soft tissue injuries at melbourne this year
Big difference in newnes fitness this year due to him creating a strong fitness base through numerous pre seasons and work ethic to a first year 18 year old player
numerous articles this pre season with paul roos stating " the toughest pre season so far but the game demands it" will be interesting to see if there is a correlation with an increase in soft tissue injuries at melbourne this year
Big difference in newnes fitness this year due to him creating a strong fitness base through numerous pre seasons and work ethic to a first year 18 year old player
My guess is another 17 clubs have also had their toughest pre season ever. And I would say easily the main reason for an ACL going is falling or landing awkwardly.
plugger66 wrote:
I think you will find every club would have players like that in pre season but they aren't number one draft picks so they aren't on TV. Anyway it would have nothing to do with any injury he received. They are monitored after every training session. Its called s*** happens.
Agree. I tore my maniscus cartilage getting out of bed. Just another ordinary day. Went to get up and tore it. Couldn't straighten my leg or walk any more. OK so I wasn't a highly managed athlete, but for all of our science, stuff happens that is unforeseeable. Terrible luck for Melbourne. It had to be their #1 draft pick.
gringo wrote:Apparently Bradshaw had to leave the field with a bump to the cheek bone today, Melbourne will be doing non contact work only the way they are going.
They're not tanking already?
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
gringo wrote:Apparently Bradshaw had to leave the field with a bump to the cheek bone today, Melbourne will be doing non contact work only the way they are going.
gringo wrote:Apparently Bradshaw had to leave the field with a bump to the cheek bone today, Melbourne will be doing non contact work only the way they are going.
Who is Bradshaw?
Sorry Brayshaw...my operating system upgrade has switched on the autocorrect. There are some very odd corrections like Warkworth for Markworth. Apparently Bradshaw is a more common name in Appleland.
plugger66 wrote:
I think you will find every club would have players like that in pre season but they aren't number one draft picks so they aren't on TV. Anyway it would have nothing to do with any injury he received. They are monitored after every training session. Its called s*** happens.
Agree. I tore my maniscus cartilage getting out of bed. Just another ordinary day. Went to get up and tore it. Couldn't straighten my leg or walk any more. OK so I wasn't a highly managed athlete, but for all of our science, stuff happens that is unforeseeable. Terrible luck for Melbourne. It had to be their #1 draft pick.
Tore mine in 2003 putting my boots on to go to the footy (the game where budge Murray kick four on debut against the Hawks)
Tore my other in 2008. Have had Ops on both knees, but started running again in 2009 and have since run two half marathons and would run probably 35 k's a week for training.
Knees are better now I am fitter even though I am now in my 50's.
Don't know what that says except there is little co-relation to anything when it comes to knees.
White Winmar wrote:It's one of the big questions, bigcarlosis and I think you are right to ask it. The fact is, if we could accurately predict serious soft tissue injuries then we would all be better off. The fact is that it is all a big gamble and i don't think anyone has the answer. No doubt many athletes are prone to soft tissue injuries, it's just that we don't yet have the technology to make accurate predictions of when that might occur. If you could crack that code, the world would beat a path to your door. The ACL injury seems to be one of the hardest to predict.
I always think of the Ox when this argument comes up. Built like a brick shithouse, with strong supporting muscles in his legs. Still did three ACL's although the variable in the last two was the fact that his weight had ballooned from 95 to 125 kg, placing incredible stresses on his joints. No doubt one day there will be a test that can accurately predict muscle and ligament tolerance so that clubs can be more discerning and selective in who they bring onto their lists and how they manage them. The human genome project, which gives us a complete makeup of the individual, probably holds the answer.
Maybe the Ox for all his size and strength just had "gurlyman" legs (expained below)! But I'll leave it up to you to tell him that!
Jokes aside, there is a profile or particular knee geometry that predisposes acl injury that could explain cases such as the Ox. It would be interesting to know (in retrospect) if he fitted that profile and indeed if young Petracca was checked out and "risk assessed"! http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 122626.htm
I would presume that someone with such genetic predisposition to knee injury would/should be trained in a different manner to an athlete with "normal" knee geometry. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 102915.htm
We should all expect coaches to not take risks with young athletes and to balance their welfare with the obvious pressure from the club(s) to "maximise" results.
Looking at the saints app and the afl app the pictures, headlines and stories are all of McCartin.
The club say he is the sort of guy who will be able to handle the scrutiny that goes with being pick 1 and I hope they are right.
Maybe we as supporters have forgotten how intense it can/will be. The media is a different beast nowadays compared to when we picked Roo and BJ. They were both universally considered to be the top pick, not so Paddy.
I totally disagreed with the comments about Petracca's injury relieving pressure on Paddy but my mind has changed today.
Goose is king wrote:Looking at the saints app and the afl app the pictures, headlines and stories are all of McCartin.
The club say he is the sort of guy who will be able to handle the scrutiny that goes with being pick 1 and I hope they are right.
Maybe we as supporters have forgotten how intense it can/will be. The media is a different beast nowadays compared to when we picked Roo and BJ. They were both universally considered to be the top pick, not so Paddy.
I totally disagreed with the comments about Petracca's injury relieving pressure on Paddy but my mind has changed today.
I'm really impressed with Paddy he is the kind of guy you can't help liking and very personable. He's got captaincy quality and I'm glad we got him now. I think we made a very sound decision, Petracca going down might ease a few minds or stave off the comparisons for a while but his character is A1 and will cope well IMO.
