Training 4/2/15

[stinger]

Thanks Hallalj#3 for taking the time to write this up.

Coaches are probably just trying a few positional options. Akers at HB sounds interesting. Steven moving well is very good news.

In all, everyone seemed to be moving well, as one would like to see at this time of year

.."that's where he played in his first game against the Hawks last year.....no surprises there..

[stinger]

Not really, Hallalj#3 has got it pretty right. A couple of boys he mentioned not being there were in the pool. Dead right about Stevens, looking very sharp. Acres has dropped a couple of kgs and is running better, as is Brodie.Thought Marksworth was good today and they played through him a bit. Schneids did fast laps.

....good to here acres has dropped a couple of k's.....thought he was dead slow last year.....been waiting for marksworth.....

[ROLS-LEE]

In terms of rucks we have Hickey, Longer, Holmes & Lewis Pierce.
Who long term will make it in our next team to play finals?

I believe Hickey, and the other 3 fight it out. Bout time we have some long term depth in this area and not gifting the position to any 1 player.

[CursingFijian]

Good to hear Jack Sinclair continuing to impress. Do you think he is a chance of an upgrade with a view to an early debut?

[Con Gorozidis]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

[St Ick]

Good to hear Jack Sinclair continuing to impress. Do you think he is a chance of an upgrade with a view to an early debut?

You're taking this advocacy thing to a whole new level!

[White Winmar]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

I think you're right, Con. I saw a bit of Billy as a junior and at first I was happy we got him. Despite the fact that he got plenty of opportunities last year with Hickey being out, I was disappointed with his progress. One thing that really stood out was his inability to take a contested mark, or any mark for that matter. He was reasonable overhead as a junior and I thought he would naturally progress in this area. His inability to mark, or get involved at ground level, renders him less than useful as a "modern day ruckman". If he doesn't improve in these areas, he may find himself as trade bait for the second time in three years.

Lewis Pierce already looks a better bet and big Jason is developing nicely. With Hickey as number one, Billy may find himself being squeezed out.

[CURLY]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

One of the stupider posts on here Ive seen. Do you honestly believe this.

[CursingFijian]

Good to hear Jack Sinclair continuing to impress. Do you think he is a chance of an upgrade with a view to an early debut?

You're taking this advocacy thing to a whole new level!

Haha, outed! Lets just say I am genuinely interested in what he brings to the team and keen to track his progression towards a debut. He is well down the pecking order in terms of 'most watched and discussed' so I am always interested in the opinions of those who have had a chance to see him on the training track.

[matrix]

i cant wait for the season to start
i dont care where we finish (predicting no spoon for us this year) i just want to see some bloody footy!

[Sobraz]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

One of the stupider posts on here Ive seen. Do you honestly believe this.

Theres far more stupider posts every 5 minutes.

What Con states is reasonable, and looking more and more accurate. If you honestly believe Longer showed much last year, clearly you are seeing something other than actual football ability. Considering the opportunity he was given, he was most certainly disappointing. Especially in his inability to take a mark or look even slightly capable up forward.

This is not to say he is finished, however, at this stage, he looks more likely than not to be a bust. In fact, pick 25, Daniel McStay, looks like he has a bit of potential playing 9 games in his first season.

Billy has a ton of work to do.

[CURLY]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

One of the stupider posts on here Ive seen. Do you honestly believe this.

Theres far more stupider posts every 5 minutes.

What Con states is reasonable, and looking more and more accurate. If you honestly believe Longer showed much last year, clearly you are seeing something other than actual football ability. Considering the opportunity he was given, he was most certainly disappointing. Especially in his inability to take a mark or look even slightly capable up forward.

This is not to say he is finished, however, at this stage, he looks more likely than not to be a bust. In fact, pick 25, Daniel McStay, looks like he has a bit of potential playing 9 games in his first season.

Billy has a ton of work to do.

No the issue I have is that Con's post assumes our recruiters never watched his progress or never saw him play before or after he was drafted. Con believes we saw him as a early pick and sight unseen demanded we chase him. This is ridiculous. For what its worth Longers ruck worth was fantastic and his aggression at the contest was also a valuable asset. I would love him to take more makes and hope he gains that in his game but look at the average marks for Minson and Goldstein.

[Saintberra]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

One of the stupider posts on here Ive seen. Do you honestly believe this.

Theres far more stupider posts every 5 minutes.

What Con states is reasonable, and looking more and more accurate. If you honestly believe Longer showed much last year, clearly you are seeing something other than actual football ability. Considering the opportunity he was given, he was most certainly disappointing. Especially in his inability to take a mark or look even slightly capable up forward.

This is not to say he is finished, however, at this stage, he looks more likely than not to be a bust. In fact, pick 25, Daniel McStay, looks like he has a bit of potential playing 9 games in his first season.

Billy has a ton of work to do.

Good thing he's only 21, reading comments it almost seems like people think he's in his late 20's

[Bluthy]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

One of the stupider posts on here Ive seen. Do you honestly believe this.

Theres far more stupider posts every 5 minutes.

What Con states is reasonable, and looking more and more accurate. If you honestly believe Longer showed much last year, clearly you are seeing something other than actual football ability. Considering the opportunity he was given, he was most certainly disappointing. Especially in his inability to take a mark or look even slightly capable up forward.

This is not to say he is finished, however, at this stage, he looks more likely than not to be a bust. In fact, pick 25, Daniel McStay, looks like he has a bit of potential playing 9 games in his first season.

Billy has a ton of work to do.

Good thing he's only 21, reading comments it almost seems like people think he's in his late 20's

Looks like with Stanley gone people have nominated their new whipping boy. Lets just ignore that Longer has been damn reliable and a work horse and that he was brought in for that exact reason with McEvoy moved on and Hickey being injury prone. We should have just chucked Pierce in as a green, skinny lad to get busted up by the other teams dual rucks and have his career destroyed. Its amazing what short term thinkers people can be.

[Bunk_Moreland]

No Longer is hopeless = delist.

Also Billings no good because he is not from the country

McCartin no good because he is diabetic

Goddard is no good because he has the same surname as bj

Fair Dinkum

Deserves to be on the list just for this alone

[st.byron]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

Crikey Con, give the bloke a go. He's 21, 202cms and 100kg. He's probably just stopped growing. He's played 25 games and was captain of Vic Metro in the U18 champs. Blimey people are quick to write young fellas off.

[Con Gorozidis]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

Crikey Con, give the bloke a go. He's 21, 202cms and 100kg. He's probably just stopped growing. He's played 25 games and was captain of Vic Metro in the U18 champs. Blimey people are quick to write young fellas off.

I said 'too early to tell' and I was merely commenting on the OPs comments on the topic. Shee whizz.
No-one has written him off. Ruckmen are always tricky. They can look hopeless for years then come out at 25 26 and dominate.
Even Grundy came out all guns blazing at 19yo and now suddenly hes not rated. Lots of unknowns when it comes to Rucks. Totally unpredictable.
But Billy has struggled to take a grab so far in his short career - even in praccy games. Still early doors.
As a general rule of thumb - nothing to do with Billy - I never like using a top 20 draft pick on a Ruckman. Just too risky imo and youre just as likely to pull one from a late or rookie pick imo. Probably someone could answer this with actual data.

[White Winmar]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

Crikey Con, give the bloke a go. He's 21, 202cms and 100kg. He's probably just stopped growing. He's played 25 games and was captain of Vic Metro in the U18 champs. Blimey people are quick to write young fellas off.

I don't think anyone wants to write player off, especially a young ruckman with years of development ahead of him. It's just that he may have slipped down the order a bit. As I said in my other post, I saw Billy at the junior level and I was glad we grabbed him. The other side of it is that young ruckmen have real currency in the recruitment market and with four on the list, we might be tempted to move one on for the right price.

[St Ick]

Good to hear Jack Sinclair continuing to impress. Do you think he is a chance of an upgrade with a view to an early debut?

You're taking this advocacy thing to a whole new level!

Haha, outed! Lets just say I am genuinely interested in what he brings to the team and keen to track his progression towards a debut. He is well down the pecking order in terms of 'most watched and discussed' so I am always interested in the opinions of those who have had a chance to see him on the training track.

All good bud, I share you enthusiasm for the kid. I rate him extremely highly also, think he will shock a lot of people inside and outside of St Kilda and will force his way into the side well before seasons end. The fact that he hasn't really spent all that much time in a professional environment is probably why I'm so bullish on him. Not often do you get natural sportsmen like him and he definitely has something. Can't wait to watch him in the intraclub. Being that one year older than the other draftees means he could potentially come on a lot quicker than is expected.

[gringo]

Good to hear Jack Sinclair continuing to impress. Do you think he is a chance of an upgrade with a view to an early debut?

You're taking this advocacy thing to a whole new level!

Haha, outed! Lets just say I am genuinely interested in what he brings to the team and keen to track his progression towards a debut. He is well down the pecking order in terms of 'most watched and discussed' so I am always interested in the opinions of those who have had a chance to see him on the training track.

All good bud, I share you enthusiasm for the kid. I rate him extremely highly also, think he will shock a lot of people inside and outside of St Kilda and will force his way into the side well before seasons end. The fact that he hasn't really spent all that much time in a professional environment is probably why I'm so bullish on him. Not often do you get natural sportsmen like him and he definitely has something. Can't wait to watch him in the intraclub. Being that one year older than the other draftees means he could potentially come on a lot quicker than is expected.

We had a long chat with him training and he seems a very confident and enthusiastic guy. He's short but muscly and looks ready to roll. He told us he'd done everything with Billings growing up and that last year was the first they hadn't played together in a team since under 9s or something including footy, cricket and basketball. He's a really likeable kid. I hope he does well it will be a great story.

[FQF]

Good to hear Jack Sinclair continuing to impress. Do you think he is a chance of an upgrade with a view to an early debut?

You're taking this advocacy thing to a whole new level!

Haha, outed! Lets just say I am genuinely interested in what he brings to the team and keen to track his progression towards a debut. He is well down the pecking order in terms of 'most watched and discussed' so I am always interested in the opinions of those who have had a chance to see him on the training track.

All good bud, I share you enthusiasm for the kid. I rate him extremely highly also, think he will shock a lot of people inside and outside of St Kilda and will force his way into the side well before seasons end. The fact that he hasn't really spent all that much time in a professional environment is probably why I'm so bullish on him. Not often do you get natural sportsmen like him and he definitely has something. Can't wait to watch him in the intraclub. Being that one year older than the other draftees means he could potentially come on a lot quicker than is expected.

We had a long chat with him training and he seems a very confident and enthusiastic guy. He's short but muscly and looks ready to roll. He told us he'd done everything with Billings growing up and that last year was the first they hadn't played together in a team since under 9s or something including footy, cricket and basketball. He's a really likeable kid. I hope he does well it will be a great story.

Early days but how good is our track record with rookies in the last few years. I remember not long ago when a rookie was speculative at best, and odds on to never play a senior game. Last year our entire rookie list was upgraded and now we have some new ones who are dominating on the track in their first pre season. Really great progress in this area.

[FQF]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

Crikey Con, give the bloke a go. He's 21, 202cms and 100kg. He's probably just stopped growing. He's played 25 games and was captain of Vic Metro in the U18 champs. Blimey people are quick to write young fellas off.

I said 'too early to tell' and I was merely commenting on the OPs comments on the topic. Shee whizz.
No-one has written him off. Ruckmen are always tricky. They can look hopeless for years then come out at 25 26 and dominate.
Even Grundy came out all guns blazing at 19yo and now suddenly hes not rated. Lots of unknowns when it comes to Rucks. Totally unpredictable.
But Billy has struggled to take a grab so far in his short career - even in praccy games. Still early doors.
As a general rule of thumb - nothing to do with Billy - I never like using a top 20 draft pick on a Ruckman. Just too risky imo and youre just as likely to pull one from a late or rookie pick imo. Probably someone could answer this with actual data.

Worth remembering that Billy was not used as trade bait. He was the one who wanted to leave the club for more opportunity and Brisbane were pretty unhappy about it.

[mad saint guy]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

I think you're right, Con. I saw a bit of Billy as a junior and at first I was happy we got him. Despite the fact that he got plenty of opportunities last year with Hickey being out, I was disappointed with his progress. One thing that really stood out was his inability to take a contested mark, or any mark for that matter. He was reasonable overhead as a junior and I thought he would naturally progress in this area. His inability to mark, or get involved at ground level, renders him less than useful as a "modern day ruckman". If he doesn't improve in these areas, he may find himself as trade bait for the second time in three years.

Lewis Pierce already looks a better bet and big Jason is developing nicely. With Hickey as number one, Billy may find himself being squeezed out.

Longer's season averages at 21

Games: 16
Disposals: 7.2
Marks: 1.1
Tackles: 3.9
Hitouts: 25.9

Goldstein's season at 21

Games: 13
Disposals: 8
Marks: 2.8
Tackles: 1.4
Hitouts: 13.8

Minson at 21

Games: 13
Disposals: 8
Marks: 1.9
Tackles: 1.8
Hitouts: 10.1

Sandilands

Games: 19
Disposals: 7.2
Marks: 3
Tackles: 0.8
Hitouts: 18.6

Yes, Longer needs to improve his marking but other than that he's one of the best young ruck prospects in the league.

[stinger]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

I think you're right, Con. I saw a bit of Billy as a junior and at first I was happy we got him. Despite the fact that he got plenty of opportunities last year with Hickey being out, I was disappointed with his progress. One thing that really stood out was his inability to take a contested mark, or any mark for that matter. He was reasonable overhead as a junior and I thought he would naturally progress in this area. His inability to mark, or get involved at ground level, renders him less than useful as a "modern day ruckman". If he doesn't improve in these areas, he may find himself as trade bait for the second time in three years.

Lewis Pierce already looks a better bet and big Jason is developing nicely. With Hickey as number one, Billy may find himself being squeezed out.

Longer's season averages at 21

Games: 16
Disposals: 7.2
Marks: 1.1
Tackles: 3.9
Hitouts: 25.9

Goldstein's season at 21

Games: 13
Disposals: 8
Marks: 2.8
Tackles: 1.4
Hitouts: 13.8

Minson at 21

Games: 13
Disposals: 8
Marks: 1.9
Tackles: 1.8
Hitouts: 10.1

Sandilands

Games: 19
Disposals: 7.2
Marks: 3
Tackles: 0.8
Hitouts: 18.6

Yes, Longer needs to improve his marking but other than that he's one of the best young ruck prospects in the league.

..........sanity prevails.........with stats.....

[Bluthy]

Thanks hallalj#3 and Tony74 for those updates.

It seems maybe the Lions may have won the day on the Longer trade. Too early to tell but maybe he looked better on paper because he was such a high pick. Ruckmen are always the hardest to get right in the draft.

I think you're right, Con. I saw a bit of Billy as a junior and at first I was happy we got him. Despite the fact that he got plenty of opportunities last year with Hickey being out, I was disappointed with his progress. One thing that really stood out was his inability to take a contested mark, or any mark for that matter. He was reasonable overhead as a junior and I thought he would naturally progress in this area. His inability to mark, or get involved at ground level, renders him less than useful as a "modern day ruckman". If he doesn't improve in these areas, he may find himself as trade bait for the second time in three years.

Lewis Pierce already looks a better bet and big Jason is developing nicely. With Hickey as number one, Billy may find himself being squeezed out.

Longer's season averages at 21

Games: 16
Disposals: 7.2
Marks: 1.1
Tackles: 3.9
Hitouts: 25.9

Goldstein's season at 21

Games: 13
Disposals: 8
Marks: 2.8
Tackles: 1.4
Hitouts: 13.8

Minson at 21

Games: 13
Disposals: 8
Marks: 1.9
Tackles: 1.8
Hitouts: 10.1

Sandilands

Games: 19
Disposals: 7.2
Marks: 3
Tackles: 0.8
Hitouts: 18.6

Yes, Longer needs to improve his marking but other than that he's one of the best young ruck prospects in the league.

Jesus Christ, he's out tapping Sandilands at that age? Great stats MSG even though stats don't always tell the whole story I know. Longer was doing the tap work for most of the games he played in this year (with a little chop out from Stanley) so he's going to get more taps than teams using two rucks equally. But that also reflects his work rate and stamina. Maybe the reason people don't feel Longer is doing that well in the ruck is because we have the worst midfield in the comp who struggle to win clearances. In the chaos of ball ups its hard to know which ruck put it too good advantage unless the mids take it away which ours usually don't. I wonder if they will use Hickey and Longer together this year or use someone like Roo to do some rucking (would his knees let him do that?). I'd like to see some experimentation this year to get some versatility in our squad.