Starting to Feel Excited About the 2015 Season Ahead

[dragit]

Why are GWS, Bulldogs and Dees looking so much better then us this season ?

Way better midfields…
More solid forward options…
Similar level backlines…
Better age profile.

[gringo]

Why are GWS, Bulldogs and Dees looking so much better then us this season ?

Way better midfields…
More solid forward options…
Similar level backlines…
Better age profile.

I'm not sold on the Dogs or Dees backlines. Both vulnerable. We probably have one true KPP less than an excellent backbone with lots of spares and talent coming through. I think we are probably set for a long time with Goddard likely to take the last KP spot in the next few years.

Dees have lost Frawley who was undoubtably their best backman. They get back Hogan who is an unknown quantity and then they have an okay midfield. I would say we wouldn't be that different to them in stocks. The Dogs could be anything but losing those old guys will hurt in tight games when experience counts. Dogs have lost higgins and Griffen but got an inexperienced KPF for the loss of their best player and captain. The kids will have to take a quantum leap to cover the experience to go higher than they went last year. GWS are in the age bracket now you would expect some dominant performances and Griffen will make a huge difference...he's a gun, not quite Ablett but he will carry the midfield forward. Collingwood are a very inexperienced list and could really struggle to be competitive even more so than the Blues.

[White Winmar]

I can't see how the Bulldogs will improve greatly. Yes, they gained Boyd, but they've lost three of their best midfielders in Griffen, Cooney and Higgins. Add to that, handy bit players in Tutt and jones and I think they've come out behind, overall. Sold the farm, I'm afraid. I know they have a promising, developing midfield, but such midfields need experienced and hardened veterans to help them develop.

[dragit]

I reckon Wallis, Bontempelli, Boyd, Dalhaus, Macrae, Hrovat, Liba, Hunter, Stevens, bats a fair bit deeper than our midfield, plus the players they drafted last year could make an impact pretty quickly Marchbank, McLean, Webb etc… whereas we didn't take mids with our early picks so will have to wait a few years…

Boyd, Crameri, Dalhaus, Stringer, Macrae, Bont will be a pretty serious fwd/mid set-up.

We'll see I guess, I am preparing for more pain and another spoon…

[bergholt]

I reckon Wallis, Bontempelli, Boyd, Dalhaus, Macrae, Hrovat, Liba, Hunter, Stevens bats a fair bit deeper than our midfield.

I agree with this. They're definitely threadbare at the top. They only have five 100-gamers, similar number to GWS and GC, comfortably less than everyone else. We've got 9 and we're in the bottom group there. So there's no doubt they lack experience and that'll make it hard this year and maybe next.

But after that anything could happen. Look at these groups:

70-80 games: Crameri (26), Liberatore (22), Roughead (24), Dahlhaus (22)
60-70 games: Wood (25), Grant (25)
50-60 games: Wallis (22), Stevens (23)
40-50 games: -
30-40 games: Macrae (20), Dickson (27), Smith (21)
20-30 games: Stringer (20), Johannisen (22), Hunter (20), Campbell (23), Cordy (24)
10-20 games: Hrovat (20), Darley (22), Bontempelli (19), Talia (22), Jong (21)
1-10 games: Boyd (19), Roberts (21), Biggs (23), Pearce (22), Honeychurch (20), Redpath (24)

In two or three years there will be a big bunch of A-graders here. Libba, Macrae, Stringer, Hunter, Hrovat, Bontempelli, Boyd, at least. Not to mention Dahlhaus, Wallis, Smith, Honeychurch, probably others I haven't seen much of. If we had a group anything like this we'd be salivating.

Here's us for comparison:

70-80 games: Savage (24)
60-70 games: Roberton (23)
50-60 games: -
40-50 games: Delaney (25), Weller (23), Newnes (22)
30-40 games: Simpkin (24), Hickey (24)
20-30 games: Saad (25), Siposs (22), Ross (21), Longer (21), Bruce (22), Curren (22), Webster (21), Saunders (20)
10-20 games: Murdoch (21), Billings (19), Dunstan (20), Wright (21), Shenton (24), Lee (24)
1-10 games: Templeton (19), Minchington (21), Acres (19), White (20), Membrey (20)

Potential A-graders at this point: Newnes, Billings, Dunstan, Acres? And some guys who'll be serviceable, and at least five or six who are odds on to fail. There's just no comparison with the Doggies list at this point.

[dragit]

Look at these groups:

70-80 games: Crameri (26), Liberatore (22), Roughead (24), Dahlhaus (22)
60-70 games: Wood (25), Grant (25)
50-60 games: Wallis (22), Stevens (23)


70-80 games: Savage (24)
60-70 games: Roberton (23)
50-60 games: -

Incredible really… 8 players vs 2 in the 50 - 80 zone & our 2 are questionable at best, probably not best 22.

[gringo]

I reckon Wallis, Bontempelli, Boyd, Dalhaus, Macrae, Hrovat, Liba, Hunter, Stevens, bats a fair bit deeper than our midfield, plus the players they drafted last year could make an impact pretty quickly Marchbank, McLean, Webb etc… whereas we didn't take mids with our early picks so will have to wait a few years…

Boyd, Crameri, Dalhaus, Stringer, Macrae, Bont will be a pretty serious fwd/mid set-up.

We'll see I guess, I am preparing for more pain and another spoon…

Mc Crae and Libba have made it and Bontempelli well on his way but is the rest better than ours headlined by Steven and Armo? Dalhaus is more a small forward with some on ball ability. Boyd was poor at NEAFL level so he's going to have to be coming on fast. The rest are kids with potential something we know all about.

[dragit]

I meant Matthew Boyd… Hrovat, Stevens and Hunter are just hitting their straps but are better than most of our young mids at this stage…

[older saint]

Excited about watching the young kids develop and the new onesto see the potential , however has very much a 2001/2002 feel about it to me. Glimpses, quarters of WOW , perhaps the odd game of WOW, but come September probably a good year will be 6 -7 wins, average 5, which is likely to earn top 2 pick again- which is not a bad thing considering the list and talent on it.

[older saint]

Excited about watching the young kids develop and the new onesto see the potential , however has very much a 2001/2002 feel about it to me. Glimpses, quarters of WOW , perhaps the odd game of WOW, but come September probably a good year will be 6 -7 wins, average 5, which is likely to earn top 2 pick again- which is not a bad thing considering the list and talent on it.

[gringo]

I meant Matthew Boyd… Hrovat, Stevens and Hunter are just hitting their straps but are better than most of our young mids at this stage…

I think Dustan would give those guys a run for their money. I think Mav is about the quality of Stevens, Joey still goes okay and we have a group like Ross, Newness, Savage, Billings, Wright, Curren and Minchington who could all push for midfield time. They don't look heaps better IMO at this point in time but do have very good potential.

[Vazelos]

Forgive me if its been done but has anyone tried to set up the team for Round 1. Not an easy task with a full squad that we practically have with probably only Siposs unavailable for Round 1.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think we are still a couple of years behind the Dogs, GWS, GC. The key is to get a bunch of guys in to the 50-80 game mark together and then hope like hell they are good players when they get there.

The Tiges have just got a bunch of guys to the 50-80 game mark at the same time - but it turned out most of them werent that good. Still managed to get them to 8th or 9th though

Port have just got a bunch of guys to the 40-90 game mark and it turned out a few of them are guns. Hartlett, Wingard,Jonas,Wines,O'Shea,Moore, Pittard, Polec. Nice little core of under 25s.

[Hallalj#3]

I reckon Wallis, Bontempelli, Boyd, Dalhaus, Macrae, Hrovat, Liba, Hunter, Stevens bats a fair bit deeper than our midfield.

I agree with this. They're definitely threadbare at the top. They only have five 100-gamers, similar number to GWS and GC, comfortably less than everyone else. We've got 9 and we're in the bottom group there. So there's no doubt they lack experience and that'll make it hard this year and maybe next.

But after that anything could happen. Look at these groups:

70-80 games: Crameri (26), Liberatore (22), Roughead (24), Dahlhaus (22)
60-70 games: Wood (25), Grant (25)
50-60 games: Wallis (22), Stevens (23)
40-50 games: -
30-40 games: Macrae (20), Dickson (27), Smith (21)
20-30 games: Stringer (20), Johannisen (22), Hunter (20), Campbell (23), Cordy (24)
10-20 games: Hrovat (20), Darley (22), Bontempelli (19), Talia (22), Jong (21)
1-10 games: Boyd (19), Roberts (21), Biggs (23), Pearce (22), Honeychurch (20), Redpath (24)

In two or three years there will be a big bunch of A-graders here. Libba, Macrae, Stringer, Hunter, Hrovat, Bontempelli, Boyd, at least. Not to mention Dahlhaus, Wallis, Smith, Honeychurch, probably others I haven't seen much of. If we had a group anything like this we'd be salivating.

Here's us for comparison:

70-80 games: Savage (24)
60-70 games: Roberton (23)
50-60 games: -
40-50 games: Delaney (25), Weller (23), Newnes (22)
30-40 games: Simpkin (24), Hickey (24)
20-30 games: Saad (25), Siposs (22), Ross (21), Longer (21), Bruce (22), Curren (22), Webster (21), Saunders (20)
10-20 games: Murdoch (21), Billings (19), Dunstan (20), Wright (21), Shenton (24), Lee (24)
1-10 games: Templeton (19), Minchington (21), Acres (19), White (20), Membrey (20)

Potential A-graders at this point: Newnes, Billings, Dunstan, Acres? And some guys who'll be serviceable, and at least five or six who are odds on to fail. There's just no comparison with the Doggies list at this point.

They were saying that in 07-10 as well.. There are no guarantees in the AFL

[Jacks Back]

The key is to get a bunch of guys in to the 50-80 game mark together and then hope like hell they are good players when they get there.

And that they don't leave.

[spert]

One thing I really want to see this season is less reliance and focus on Roo. I want to see the younger guys take on the game, especially the midfield and forward line.

[bigcarl]

One thing I really want to see this season is less reliance and focus on Roo. I want to see the younger guys take on the game, especially the midfield and forward line.

I hope so, because we won't see any big improvement in our win/loss ratio until this is fixed

[WinnersOnly]

One thing I really want to see this season is less reliance and focus on Roo. I want to see the younger guys take on the game, especially the midfield and forward line.

Roo needs to stop having a 'dummy spit' everytime he leads and the ball isnt kicked to him, before that will change. He demands the ball whether he is in position or not and has three opponents hanging off him.

Stanley would often make far better leads to be ignored and we bomb long to Roo regardless. He has been such a dominant player it wont change while he is playing IMO, similiar to the Franklin go to issues...

[St Ick]

I meant Matthew Boyd… Hrovat, Stevens and Hunter are just hitting their straps but are better than most of our young mids at this stage…

I don't think those four are a grade at all, injuries and form had three of them playing ressies a bit last year. Boyd isn't getting younger, but is still a very good player.

Can't include Matty Boyd in there if you don't include Armo, Steven or Joey.

The big thing about the lists, is that unless they are elite like Billing or Macrae, they won't show the consistency, strength or domination of games until they hit 50-70 games.

I think you are being far too critical on our kids under 50 games. We could easily have a dozen on that list who play 150 plus at a very high standard

[falka]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-02-07/y ... rise-stats

Tells us we rank 18th for players under 25.
Actually they say clear 18th.

Seeing as we have next to nobody 18-31 and a few 31+ as our best, its not surprising we were last in 2014

Just to give some perspective

[Con Gorozidis]

We are in February - when your side is down the bottom half of the ladder - this is the month of peak hope!

I cant wait for the ball to be bounced in the Nab challenge. So many unknowns this year! Big Spencer, Tommy Lee, Insane in the Membrane, The Acres, DMac, will Paddy have a run, will Markworth finally get a run in the real stuff, the questions around all of our Ruckmen, will Jacky Steven re-sign early. So many questions to be answered this year!

[bergholt]

Tells us we rank 18th for players under 25.
Actually they say clear 18th.

Dunno how they measured it but how about this. Here are roughly the under 25s that I reckon might walk into a spot for the Hawks or Swans.

GWS: Ward, Davis, Treloar, Cameron, Shiel, Coniglio, probably others
Gold Coast: Swallow, Prestia, Bennell, Lynch, O'Meara, probably others
Sydney: Hannebery, Parker, Reid, Rampe, Johnson, maybe Mitchell
Port Adelaide: Ebert, Trengove, Hartlett, Wingard, Wines
Adelaide: Dangerfield, Sloane, Walker, Talia, maybe Brodie Smith, Crouch
Hawthorn: Shiels, Breust, Gunston, Hill, maybe Duryea, Langford
Western Bulldogs: Liberatore, Macrae, Stringer, Bontempelli, maybe Dahlhaus, Hunter
Brisbane: Redden, Beams, Rockliff, maybe Christensen, Mayes, Taylor, Aish
West Coast: Selwood, Naitanui, Darling, Shuey, maybe Gaff, Lycett
Essendon: Hurley, Heppell, Carlisle, maybe Daniher
Geelong: Duncan, Motlop, maybe Blicavs, Caddy, Menzel
Melbourne: McDonald, Tyson, Viney, maybe Trengove, Howe
North Melbourne: Cunnington, McDonald, maybe Bastinac, Wright
Richmond: Cotchin, Martin, maybe Conca, Vlastuin
Collingwood: Elliott, maybe Sidebottom, Adams
St Kilda: Steven, maybe Dunstan
Fremantle: Fyfe
Carlton: maybe Menzel

Certainly looks like we're right down near the bottom of that list, but I'd say Freo and Carlton have equally poor stocks and I'm not that impressed with the Collingwood group either.

On the plus side, we would have said this about Port two years ago and they've come up quickly. Same for the Doggies at the start of last year. So I wouldn't be abandoning all hope.

[Con Gorozidis]

Sobering but accurate analysis as usual berg.
The cold hard reality is if an all-AFL under 25 side was picked tomorrow we wouldn't have a single player in the 22. This was borne out in our 2014 club B&F results as well so this is not merely opinion but fact.

(nb: Jack Steven turns 25 in March).

Now hopefully by the end of 2015 - we can add a couple of our blokes to an all-AFL under 25 side.

[dragit]

I meant Matthew Boyd… Hrovat, Stevens and Hunter are just hitting their straps but are better than most of our young mids at this stage…

I don't think those four are a grade at all, injuries and form had three of them playing ressies a bit last year. Boyd isn't getting younger, but is still a very good player.

Can't include Matty Boyd in there if you don't include Armo, Steven or Joey.

The big thing about the lists, is that unless they are elite like Billing or Macrae, they won't show the consistency, strength or domination of games until they hit 50-70 games.

I think you are being far too critical on our kids under 50 games. We could easily have a dozen on that list who play 150 plus at a very high standard

I didn't say those players were A grade.

The main point I am making is that their young players are a few years ahead of ours in development. But I also still think they have more young midfield talent at this stage too.

We are all hopeful on Saunders, Murdoch, Weller, Curren, Markworth, Minchington, Savage, Templeton, Ross, but none of them are genuinely AFL quality standard mids YET - hopefully a few come on.

There's a reason why we are odds for our second spoon & will probably push for 3 - we have the worst list in the comp.

I'm pretty confident the dogs will win more games this year than we do.

[asiu]

Tells us we rank 18th for players under 25.
Actually they say clear 18th.

Dunno how they measured it but how about this. Here are roughly the under 25s that I reckon might walk into a spot for the Hawks or Swans.

GWS: Ward, Davis, Treloar, Cameron, Shiel, Coniglio, probably others
Gold Coast: Swallow, Prestia, Bennell, Lynch, O'Meara, probably others
Sydney: Hannebery, Parker, Reid, Rampe, Johnson, maybe Mitchell
Port Adelaide: Ebert, Trengove, Hartlett, Wingard, Wines
Adelaide: Dangerfield, Sloane, Walker, Talia, maybe Brodie Smith, Crouch
Hawthorn: Shiels, Breust, Gunston, Hill, maybe Duryea, Langford
Western Bulldogs: Liberatore, Macrae, Stringer, Bontempelli, maybe Dahlhaus, Hunter
Brisbane: Redden, Beams, Rockliff, maybe Christensen, Mayes, Taylor, Aish
West Coast: Selwood, Naitanui, Darling, Shuey, maybe Gaff, Lycett
Essendon: Hurley, Heppell, Carlisle, maybe Daniher
Geelong: Duncan, Motlop, maybe Blicavs, Caddy, Menzel
Melbourne: McDonald, Tyson, Viney, maybe Trengove, Howe
North Melbourne: Cunnington, McDonald, maybe Bastinac, Wright
Richmond: Cotchin, Martin, maybe Conca, Vlastuin
Collingwood: Elliott, maybe Sidebottom, Adams
St Kilda: Steven, maybe Dunstan
Fremantle: Fyfe
Carlton: maybe Menzel

Certainly looks like we're right down near the bottom of that list, but I'd say Freo and Carlton have equally poor stocks and I'm not that impressed with the Collingwood group either.

On the plus side, we would have said this about Port two years ago and they've come up quickly. Same for the Doggies at the start of last year. So I wouldn't be abandoning all hope.

thats an interesting way of look'n at things