Russell's Top 25 Saints

[1966]

Thanks Stinger.
Appreciate it.
Before my time but seems amazing our "greatest ever" player was swapped for a guy that lasted 2 weeks.

[stinger]

Thanks Stinger.
Appreciate it.
Before my time but seems amazing our "greatest ever" player was swapped for a guy that lasted 2 weeks.

heartbreaking ....made me sick when he won aother brownlow wearing black and yellow...

[Trev from the Bush]

Your version of events, Stinger, match exactly what I have always been led to believe.

Jeansy was a pretty black and white individual with no grey area. There was plenty of rumours about Stewie's off field behavior at the time but little said openly. It has been largely swept away with the sands of time. It changes nothing though; Stewie was the best I have seen. I personally reckon he was a little past his prime when he left; Hafey rejuvenated him playing him as a half-forward a lot of the time.

Jeans fell for the mistake of playing Barrott at full forward, where he had some previous success pinch-hitting for the Tigers. Why he never just threw him in the middle we'll never know - he wasn't called "Bustling Billy" for nothing and he was a magnificent kick.

[Gershwin]

I remember Barrot as being pretty one dimensional. Burst out of the centre and bomb it long. Couldn't/wouldn't change even though it didn't fit in with the way St Kilda wanted him to play.

[Trev from the Bush]

I remember Barrot as being pretty one dimensional. Burst out of the centre and bomb it long. Couldn't/wouldn't change even though it didn't fit in with the way St Kilda wanted him to play.

Yeah, dual premiership centreman, also a Richmond B&F winner, Team of the Century Player and Richmond Hall of Fame inductee.

Didn't fit in with StKilda so they chopped him by Round 3.

Obviously, far too one dimensional for the Saints, eh, Gershwin

Easily the worst player swap in the history of AFL / VFL, all the same.

[stinger]

I remember Barrot as being pretty one dimensional. Burst out of the centre and bomb it long. Couldn't/wouldn't change even though it didn't fit in with the way St Kilda wanted him to play.

Yeah, dual premiership centreman, also a Richmond B&F winner, Team of the Century Player and Richmond Hall of Fame inductee.

Didn't fit in with StKilda so they chopped him by Round 3.

Obviously, far too one dimensional for the Saints, eh, Gershwin

Easily the worst player swap in the history of AFL / VFL, all the same.

with the greene for king and scott a close second....we always get reamed....

[saintbrat]

St Kilda FC ‏@stkildafc
Our apologies, the finale for Russell Holmesby's top 25 has been delayed until Monday due to a technical difficulty today. Stay tuned!

[plugger66]

St Kilda FC ‏@stkildafc
Our apologies, the finale for Russell Holmesby's top 25 has been delayed until Monday due to a technical difficulty today. Stay tuned!

I reckon its delayed because he hasn't worked out if its Ian Stewart or Sean Godsell at number one.

[Jacks Back]

St Kilda FC ‏@stkildafc
Our apologies, the finale for Russell Holmesby's top 25 has been delayed until Monday due to a technical difficulty today. Stay tuned!

I reckon its delayed because he hasn't worked out if its Ian Stewart or Sean Godsell at number one.

I haven't really checked out all the 25 and was wondering if Paul Temay made the list?

[plugger66]

St Kilda FC ‏@stkildafc
Our apologies, the finale for Russell Holmesby's top 25 has been delayed until Monday due to a technical difficulty today. Stay tuned!

I reckon its delayed because he hasn't worked out if its Ian Stewart or Sean Godsell at number one.

I haven't really checked out all the 25 and was wondering if Paul Temay made the list?

6. Just above Lenny and David Winbanks.

[Vazelos]

Thanks Plugger 66. We are agreed Plugger is the greatest.
Imagine him on the open market today?
How much would he demand?!!

[saintbrat]

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-01-1 ... top-25-no1
1. Ian Stewart (1)
Born: July 14, 1943
Debut: Round 1, 1963
Games: 205
Goals: 80
Height: 180cm
Weight: 78kg

One of the game's greatest ever footballers. He joined the Saints without any fanfare and the shy Tasmanian even purchased his own training guernsey rather than ask for one. He was totally fearless and his style of marking while backing into a pack became a trademark.

He suffered a bad knock in his first game, but was able to battle on. He soon moved from the wing to take over the centre role from state man Lance Oswald. Other clubs became aware of his great talent and he was frequently a target.

[saintspremiers]

Never saw Stewart play but if anyone can rate a better player than Plugger he must've been a superfreak, unless Russ is related.
Can't understand why you'd rate Harvs above Roo either

[plugger66]

Never saw Stewart play but if anyone can rate a better player than Plugger he must've been a superfreak, unless Russ is related.
Can't understand why you'd rate Harvs above Roo either

Because its his opinion and not anyone elses.

[robbie muir]

In order to be rated the best Saint ever I believe you must have longevity at that club. For that reason Stewart and Baldock are eliminated as they only played 127 and 119 games each respectively for the Saints. I'm not advocating quantity of games over quality of games , just that it is important to have a combination of both.
For this reason I am left with Reiwoldt , Harvey , Lockett and Barker.
If Loyalty is the defining issue then you can't go past Barks. 230 games the most by any player in the AFL/VFL history without playing a final. Sacrificed far too much for the club. Had huge offers from other clubs ( especially Collingwood as Barks was going out with Tom Hafey's daughter at the time ). Gave back a car he won so the club could raffle it and accepted 22.5 cents in the dollar when the club was in serious financial trouble.
If Ability is the defining issue how can you go past Plugger . 898 goals in 183 games at an average of nearly 5 a game . And don't forget that we won the wooden spoon in 5 of his first 6 years. If he had played in a decent team and avoided injuries and suspensions he may have kicked 2000 goals. He was the reason a lot of supporters went to the footy in the 80's and early 90's.
For a combination of Loyalty and ability Reiwoldt and Harvey are hard to split. The only question mark I have ( and which can't be answered ) is whether Roo and Harves would have been as loyal if they were playing in unsuccessful teams. We hope they would've.. For what it's worth in my humble opinion.
1/ Lockett
2/ Barker
3/ Reiwoldt
4/ Harvey
5/ Baldock
6/ Stewart

[saintbrat]

Russell's explanation
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-01-2 ... 25-wrap-up


You can ask Russell why his choices tonight ( Tuesday 20th )
St Kilda FC ‏@stkildafc
Join Club Historian Russell Holmesby at 8pm TONIGHT for a Twitter takeover!

Details: http://stk.lt/1CJ7Csk
#Top25

The Run Home ‏@TheRunHome
@stkildafc his next Twitter Takeover will be in 11 months time when he asks kids what they want for Christmas #SantaClausHolmesby

[St Lenny]

Our motto is Strength Through Loyalty, how can Plugger be no 1. Not saying he wasn't a great player. But for me loyalty is a big factor.

[HardSaint]

I have been trying to find info on the Stewart Barrott swap.
Why did Barrott only play two games at St kilda?
Kicked 3 in his first game and was gone 2 weeks later.
Could have been handy in the 71 grand final.

Meanwhile Stewart went on the win another flag and Brownlow.

he was never happy at the saints..nor carlton...never settled after leaving the tigers...i think his heart was with them....

..someone else will know more...

Yeah I'm curious too as to why Barrott flopped - I remember my old man and grandfathers talking about him being too much of a pants man, never gelled with the other players and no one would pass it to him
I guess I'm looking for clarity amidstt generational gossip and hearsay

[loris]

I have been trying to find info on the Stewart Barrott swap.
Why did Barrott only play two games at St kilda?
Kicked 3 in his first game and was gone 2 weeks later.
Could have been handy in the 71 grand final.

Meanwhile Stewart went on the win another flag and Brownlow.

he was never happy at the saints..nor carlton...never settled after leaving the tigers...i think his heart was with them....

..someone else will know more...

Yeah I'm curious too as to why Barrott flopped - I remember my old man and grandfathers talking about him being too much of a pants man, never gelled with the other players and no one would pass it to him
I guess I'm looking for clarity amidstt generational gossip and hearsay

What is a pants man?

I grew up with the Barrott boys. They lived around the corner from us. All of them very good footballers (Bill, Wes & Louie) and nice kids. I think Wes played with Richmond too. Actually I could kick a stab pass better than Billy I was what was called a 'tomboy' as a kid in those days. Was usually first picked in the boy's teams!! In all modesty I was better fast bowler and kick of the footy than most of the lads my age. This was because I always focussed on technique.................... wins out always in the long run over boys brute strength. Plus there was a little bit of chivalry/chauvinism in the boys in those days, they didn't tackle any of us girls playing as ferociously they did opposing male players, so I had a chance to show my skills

We kids used to play weekly matches, footy or cricket. Didn't matter what the season was. For cricket we used to toss the bat to find out which team would be Australia and which would be England. Real Ashes Test cricket!!!!

Kids from the Court we lived in would play against kids from the street Bill lived in. Bill was always captain of his street. The matches would go for however long it took. Usually until one side was undermanned because the mothers had called their kid(s) in for lunch or dinner. The matches were always played on the road, if the ball went onto the verge where the grass was, it was out of bounds. Our boundary umps were the little toddlers, too small to play in the team. That was when you would get a breather, when one of these little kids had to run to retrieve the ball. Can't ever recall us having a field (central) umpire. We just knew the rules and abided by giving a free kick to your opponents if it was an obvious free.
Because the games were played on the road, you can imagine most of us had lots of skin off our elbows, knees and buttocks. Every so often, we had to clear the goal posts from the road to let a car drive into the street. The ages in these matches ranged from about 6 - 13 years, so the sizes and abilities of the kids varied enormously. And if one side was made up with a lot of younger kids, they were allowed to have more players in their side. There was no scientific method of working this out, but our handicapping system was rather spot on..........can't recall too many blow outs. Billy's team won most of the matches over the years.

Billy eventually grew out of street footy in his early teens and played for a local club, think it was Ashburton, where he soon came under notice...... he had to play for Richmond because where he lived was Richmond's zone. A few other local lads ended up playing for Richmond over the years.

Does a pants man have anything to do with being gay? I would be most surprised if that was so with Bill. I heard years later that Bill married a girl he had been going with from primary school days, she never played in the footy games - she was too girlie for any rough and tumble. Don't know whether the marriage lasted or not.

Don't think kids can play carefree in the streets like that anymore........ poor possums don't seem to have any free time to make up sides and just play to their own rules etc and include all the kids in the street in the game. Nowadays all their sport is organised, and so many kids don't even know the other children who live in their street.

One good thing I notice in my local park, with the junior footy teams playing. Girls play in the same footy side as the boys. That never happened in my early childhood. If it was organised sport, girls only competed against girls and boys played against boys. Also any coaches you had for whatever sports team you were playing for had to have a coach of the same sex. Glad all that has changed.

[HardSaint]

Thanks for that Loris, but a pants man is far from gay - a pants man loves the ladies, often out of line
The word was he showed interest in other players girlfriends to the obvious chagrin of his new team mates
He had an issue fitting in is what I understand , but was hoping someone could shed some light

[perfectionist]

Billy Barrot was a good player, and was close to a champion - in fact two champions - Francis Bourke and Dick Clay. These two played on the wings and were both 185cm tall - that's 6ft 1in. Both could kick over 65 metres and mark overhead and both had excellent defensive aspects to their game (both played full back later in their careers). They enabled Barrot to run free. Hafey's style was almost all attack - that is - as long as we kick more goals that the opposition, we will win. It worked most of the time. Our style of play was based on defence - it also worked most of the time.

Whenever the Saints played Richmond, Clay and Bourke would kill us. Billy Barrot played against us in 1967 (and did well), but was absent when we played them in 1968, 1969 and 1970. Ian Stewart also missed most of these games through injury.

The swap was always "one sided". We got the short straw, but Ian Stewart and the "Club" no longer got on. I suppose that really meant he and Allan Jeans no longer got on. From Ian Stewart's point of view, he was convinced that the club would play him when he wasn't fit. There is some truth in that. From the Club's point of view, Stewart's drinking hindered his recovery from minor injuries. The fact that he went largely dry in 1971, played every game bar one and won his third Brownlow with Richmond gives some truth to that.

Billy Barrot's first game with us in 1971 was part of a smashing we gave Geelong at Geelong. He kicked three goals and four behinds. Things looked superficially good. His next game was to be his last for us. Certainly, his lack of a defensive side showed up. Others have spoken of "personal" issues. I heard talk but had no real knowledge of that. He finished up playing his last 12 games of VFL football with Carlton in the same year.

So is Ian Stewart number 1? It is so difficult to choose between champions. Hopefully, in the next ten years, that choice will become harder for Saints fans.

[White Winmar]

Only 127 games and walked out on us. He was also a nightmare to manage, according to the coach himself. I had the pleasure of having Jeansy as a work colleague in the early 1980's. He was not a fan of Stewart, who was a cross dressing, alcoholic. Jeansy just couldn't tolerate him as a man, even if he was sublimely skilled. Better than Lockett, Baldock and Harvey? I admire your work, Russell, but on this one you have temporarily taken leave of your senses.

Just compare Baldock the man, to Stewart, who was a low life. What about the suspicious arson attacks that burnt down his hotels and a home. Nearly killed a young traffic copper also in the seventies when he refused to pull over because he was pissed and wearing a dress. Dragged the poor copper for some distance before he dropped. I remember Stewart from when he ran the now defunct Hampton Hotel. Always found him to be evasive and dishonest.

We always considered him to be a rather unsophisticated, low level, petty crook. I know that this competition was about footballing ability, but surely character also comes into it. Even the occasional "naughty boys" in Winmar and Lockett were no angels, but they were nowhere near as fatally flawed as the man who also operated under several aliases.

[plugger66]

Only 127 games and walked out on us. He was also a nightmare to manage, according to the coach himself. I had the pleasure of having Jeansy as a work colleague in the early 1980's. He was not a fan of Stewart, who was a cross dressing, alcoholic. Jeansy just couldn't tolerate him as a man, even if he was sublimely skilled. Better than Lockett, Baldock and Harvey? I admire your work, Russell, but on this one you have temporarily taken leave of your senses.

Just compare Baldock the man, to Stewart, who was a low life. What about the suspicious arson attacks that burnt down his hotels and a home. Nearly killed a young traffic copper also in the seventies when he refused to pull over because he was pissed and wearing a dress. Dragged the poor copper for some distance before he dropped. I remember Stewart from when he ran the now defunct Hampton Hotel. Always found him to be evasive and dishonest.

We always considered him to be a rather unsophisticated, low level, petty crook. I know that this competition was about footballing ability, but surely character also comes into it. Even the occasional "naughty boys" in Winmar and Lockett were no angels, but they were nowhere near as fatally flawed as the man who also operated under several aliases.

Does the man or him leaving mean he wasn't the best? I rate best on one criteria only and that's what they do on the ground. I wouldn't have Stewart as best because my Dad said he wasn't as good as Lockett but I don't think him leaving a club or crossing dressing makes any difference to their ability on the ground. I think your police background may and I do say may be effecting your judgement.

[White Winmar]

Like you plugger, I believe Lockett was far and away our greatest, even with his character flaws. I also base my judgements on those of my old man, who unlike me, got to see Stewart, Baldock's and Lockett's entire careers. He just laughed when I asked him who was the greatest saint of all. Lockett by a mile, he used to say. I place great store in what he told me, not just because he was a reasonable judge, but that he saw them all play their entire careers with the saints.

I agree, p66, there's no doubt my career also affected my judgement, but deep down I know that while Jeansy was in awe of Stewart's talent, and often praised him in public, he knew, deep down that he could never respect him as a man, and that was the most important criterion by which he judged you.

Anyhow, it's just an opinion piece, so will have to agree to disagree with Russell.

[loris]

Thanks for that Loris, but a pants man is far from gay - a pants man loves the ladies, often out of line
The word was he showed interest in other players girlfriends to the obvious chagrin of his new team mates
He had an issue fitting in is what I understand , but was hoping someone could shed some light

Ta "Hard Saint"............. it's a truism 'one lives and learns'.............. I've just learnt a new saying!

I'll file it away, until I can use it at the most 'inappropriate moment' in an innocent manner ofcourse; and, delight in the shocked faces as the listeners think ' Did that sweet (?) little old lady say that? Poor dear, she knows not what she says