The Club Needs A Place To Call Home

[damienc]

Like most of you, I've been following the toing and froing as St Kilda tries to find a place to call home. A bit like ET.

We don't like Seaford. We would like to go back to the Junction Oval.

But unfortunately for the club there was a change of Government in Victoria. And that deal is now well and truly on the backburner. There is speculation that we might be able to use some of the precincts at Junction Oval. But personally I will believe that when/if it happens.

The club was described by one newspaper columnist today as nomadic, wandering from place to place but never really settled. Yet again the Saints find themselves the recipients of bad decisions made in the past.

Relocating from the Junction Oval for one. That was a big mistake. Junction Oval is the spiritual heartland, not to mention the true geographic location for a football club that calls itself St Kilda.

Then, in no particular order, there was Moorabbin which personally I didn't mind. Moorabbin is a lot closer to St Kilda (the place) than Seaford.

We tried the Apple Isle. Launceston, which we should have perservered with. Look at Hawthorn. They did and it worked magnificently for them. And now this dodgy adventure into the land of the long, white cloud.

These grand adventures seem to work when football teams are winning football matches.

But seeing we are yet to win a game in Wellington people won't keep coming to see a bunch of losers. They are not masochists like we are.

We need a home and it's not good for us not to have one. If the Junction Oval is not an option then, in my view, we should direct our best efforts at Moorabbin. Spend money on re-developing the ground and make it a place worthy of a great football team.

I get nervous when I look at our present situation. I personally would hate for us to be forced into a position of having to re-locate interstate or God know's where, just to suit some political endgame that the AFL wants to pursue in much the same as they did with Fitzroy.

Before you go pointing out the success story of the Sydney Swans, that is a completely new club in my opinion. It bears almost no resemblance to the South Melbourne of Bobby Skilton's era. In fact the only thing the two club have in common is wearing the same jumper.

I am not, for one minute suggesting that this will happen, but I would personally hate for the club to be forced to leave Victoria. That would hurt more than not winning a premiership.

[Trev from the Bush]

Relocating from Junction Oval a mistake! "Nomadic"? Get real, that was 50 years ago! And Moorabbin was like a palace compared to the rundown, sub-standard Junction Oval. There were no improvements at all to that ground even in the 80's when Fitzroy played there.

Who is the "we" as in "we don't like Seaford"? It is a training and administration base only and a damned side closer to the fan base than the Demon's home (Casey Fields). And don't knock it for being in an "industrial area". It's ok for the Bummers out at Tullamarine (which is also beside a freeway).

And don't confuse playing home games interstate with the need to "find a home". Just about every club has done this at sometime or another in a way to gain new support, membership and sponsorship. IE, money. It is no different to what a struggling North pioneered playing on Friday nights at the MCG a couple of decades ago. Might not have suited all of there supporters but gave them much needed coverage.

Damien, we need to look at the bigger picture rather than harking back half a century to "the good old days". The club, like all other clubs, now that status quo will not lead to long term survival.

[BackFromUSA]

I look at it differently.

I think the club is trying to establish touchpoints around the bay with oval access at each point as part of the Portsea to Port Melbourne community outreach strategy.

Not all of these touch points will be "home" but will play a role in reaching local communities and building strategic access for sponsorship benefits moving forward.

The past is the past but I think the club is very keen to:

- keep Seaford as the main training base
- keep Moorabbin as a facility for the VFL side (and sub lease to other organisations)
- develop the oval and parklands in Fitzroy Street St.Kilda for marketing, sponsorship and commercial needs
- share Junction Oval redevelopment for "recovery" sessions
- gain access to Elsternwick Park for social club including the golf course access
- maintain a positive relationship with Sandringham and Frankston VFL clubs for ground access
- build New Zealand for financial, sponsorship and even membership reasons

Each touch point will give us opportunities to build ties with local communities and build broader financial capabilities and offer more to potential major sponsorship at grassroots levels.

[70s sainter]

Don't let that pointless article in the age today sway you. It sounds like he's a cricket victoria sympathiser just trying out to discredit the saints and put another nail in their j.o coffin.
Sure we have had two training grounds in the last 50 years and sold the odd home game. So what . Who hasn't ??
It shouldn't stop the saint from getting up and trying to better themselves now that we have finally got a decent CEO and have the backing of the afl .
How many houses have you lived in ?

[stinger]

Don't let that pointless article in the age today sway you. It sounds like he's a cricket victoria sympathiser just trying out to discredit the saints and put another nail in their j.o coffin.
Sure we have had two training grounds in the last 50 years and sold the odd home game. So what . Who hasn't ??
It shouldn't stop the saint from getting up and trying to better themselves now that we have finally got a decent CEO and have the backing of the afl .
How many houses have you lived in ?

there is nothing in that article that is not true...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... 2hegk.html

[GoSaintersGo]

I can recall very clearly why the StKFC left the Junction Oval in 1964 - the Footy Club had no say in it's sub tenancy of JO and was dictated to by the Cricket Club. In all those years at JO as a sub tenant with "no say" regarding occupancy, we couldn't win a flag.
A great decision by Huggins, Drake and co to make the move to Moorabbin, for the StKFC to become "Masters of their own domain" and win their first flag so quickly in 1966.
For those who want the Club to go back to JO, again as a sub tenant to cricket and with no control or say over it's occupancy, are all off their rockers, no brains at all.
The plans to re develop Moorabbin is the only way to go to secure the Club's future.

[older saint]

Very good article. Moorabin to Waverly was a push by the AFL to make better use of their asset . It worked well except for the fact the commission sold the ground from underneath us and Hawthorn. Hawthorn did their own negotiations and got the G we believed the AFL and got the lemon.
The Tasmania decision pressured but Grant Thomas shows how badly the club lacked leadership and long rem strategic planning at that time. It is a decision which historically could be identified as one of this which has set the club back significantly. Rather than bouncing like a super ball from place to place the club needs to make its own decisions, which are best for the club long term and stop being a puppet for the AFL where they want a team to fill a void - *( as per Waverley and now the Junction oval) . Whether it is Seaford or Moorabin make a decision ,and commit to it and for goodness sake look long term ( 10 - 20 years time) not right now as we have seen how well we have allowed Hawthorn to do with that ( twice now)

[plugger66]

I look at it differently.

I think the club is trying to establish touchpoints around the bay with oval access at each point as part of the Portsea to Port Melbourne community outreach strategy.

Not all of these touch points will be "home" but will play a role in reaching local communities and building strategic access for sponsorship benefits moving forward.

The past is the past but I think the club is very keen to:

- keep Seaford as the main training base
- keep Moorabbin as a facility for the VFL side (and sub lease to other organisations)
- develop the oval and parklands in Fitzroy Street St.Kilda for marketing, sponsorship and commercial needs
- share Junction Oval redevelopment for "recovery" sessions
- gain access to Elsternwick Park for social club including the golf course access
- maintain a positive relationship with Sandringham and Frankston VFL clubs for ground access
- build New Zealand for financial, sponsorship and even membership reasons

Each touch point will give us opportunities to build ties with local communities and build broader financial capabilities and offer more to potential major sponsorship at grassroots levels.

Even the pies couldn't afford all that. We like any other club need just one training venue. We just need to work out the best for the club.

[stinger]

I can recall very clearly why the StKFC left the Junction Oval in 1964 - the Footy Club had no say in it's sub tenancy of JO and was dictated to by the Cricket Club. In all those years at JO as a sub tenant with "no say" regarding occupancy, we couldn't win a flag.
A great decision by Huggins, Drake and co to make the move to Moorabbin, for the StKFC to become "Masters of their own domain" and win their first flag so quickly in 1966.
For those who want the Club to go back to JO, again as a sub tenant to cricket and with no control or say over it's occupancy, are all off their rockers, no brains at all.
The plans to re develop Moorabbin is the only way to go to secure the Club's future.

amen brother....amen

[thejiggingsaint]

The club HAS a "place to call home" MOORABBIN! To contemplate a trip backwards to Junction Oval, as an (unwanted) co- tenant (in my humble opinion) at this stage of a rebuild does nothing but create unnecessary diversions from the task of improving our performances ON field

[Heidelberg_Saint]

The club HAS a "place to call home" MOORABBIN! To contemplate a trip backwards to Junction Oval, as an (unwanted) co- tenant (in my humble opinion) at this stage of a rebuild does nothing but create unnecessary diversions from the task of improving our performances ON field

Agree.

[Sainternist]

Whilst I love the idea of moving back to the Junction, the powers that be are dead against it. Moorabbin will (once again) be our oasis from the bureaucratic turds and tyrants.

[avid]

Whilst I love the idea of moving back to the Junction, the powers that be are dead against it. Moorabbin will (once again) be our oasis from the bureaucratic turds and tyrants.

"Bureaucratic turds and tyrants" was supposed to be the whole problem at Moorabbin, with the Kingston Council. Is it solved yet?

Though I passionately long for a home base at the Junction, wish we played at the G and not Etihad, and hated leaving the 'bin for Waverley, I think the only genuinely poor decision the club has made in the last 50 years was leaving Moorabbin for Seaford.
I understand some of the problems they were having with the Kingston Council at the time.
But as far as I can see, the sticking point came down to whether they could transfer all their poker machines form the old building to a new on on South Road. And from memory, the stupid council permit conditions was going to cost the club less than 10 machines in the wash-up.
If that really was the sticking point, then we managed to turn a pimple into a mountain for us to climb.
Councils come and go. Details can be renegotiated. Political sentiment changes.
How the hell couldn't we have negotiated our way through that petty squabble, and saved all this subsequent heartache, and cost?
(Since we took our bat and ball off the Seaford, the Kingston council's planted out the car park with gum trees. Native trees, unfortunately, actually really are the ultimate political sticking point of the age)
Despite that particular frustration, isn't the core question now whether we can renegotiate a new home -- spiritual and functional -- at Moorabbin with the Kingston Council?
Does anybody know what the state of play is with that?

Another question, I suppose, is whether a modern AFL Club, with a Reserves side, needs more than one training oval.
If we do, then isn't that where we start negotiating standing arrangements with other places for occasional use of grounds and facilities. Like at the Junction (with Cricket Victoria during their off season) and/or Port Melbourne, or Elsternwick, or Sandringham, or Frankston or Seaford?

Maybe I haven't got the necessary logistics right.
But I do know that we need a big new, deeply-rooted, future-accommodating, popularly marketable spiritual home base.
By far my first preference is the Junction. But surely Moorabbin has the fundamental credentials to make it work there too.

I'm keen to see what the Club says when they get back from the hols.

[avid]

double post deleted

[Sainternist]

"Bureaucratic turds and tyrants" was supposed to be the whole problem at Moorabbin, with the Kingston Council. Is it solved yet?

This is a very valid question. I had forgotten all about that. Seems that moving out of Seaford won't come easy in the least.

[Con Gorozidis]

Whilst I love the idea of moving back to the Junction, the powers that be are dead against it. Moorabbin will (once again) be our oasis from the bureaucratic turds and tyrants.

"Bureaucratic turds and tyrants" was supposed to be the whole problem at Moorabbin, with the Kingston Council. Is it solved yet?

Though I passionately long for a home base at the Junction, wish we played at the G and not Etihad, and hated leaving the 'bin for Waverley, I think the only genuinely poor decision the club has made in the last 50 years was leaving Moorabbin for Seaford.
I understand some of the problems they were having with the Kingston Council at the time.
But as far as I can see, the sticking point came down to whether they could transfer all their poker machines form the old building to a new on on South Road. And from memory, the stupid council permit conditions was going to cost the club less than 10 machines in the wash-up.
If that really was the sticking point, then we managed to turn a pimple into a mountain for us to climb.
Councils come and go. Details can be renegotiated. Political sentiment changes.
How the hell couldn't we have negotiated our way that petty squabble, and saved all this subsequent heartache, and cost?
(Since we took our bat and ball off the Seaford, the Kingston council's planted out the car park with gum trees. Native trees, unfortunately, actually really are the ultimate political sticking point of the age)
Despite that particular frustration, isn't the core question now whether we can renegotiate a new home -- spiritual and functional -- at Moorabbin with the Kingston Council?
Does anybody know what the state of play is with that?

Another question, I suppose, is whether a modern AFL Club, with a Reserves side, needs more than one training oval.
If we do, then isn't that where we start negotiating standing arrangements with other places for occasional use of grounds and facilities. Like at the Junction (with Cricket Victoria during their off season) and/or Port Melbourne, or Elsternwick, or Sandringham, or Frankston or Seaford?

Maybe I haven't got the necessary logistics right.
But I do know that we need a big new, deeply-rooted, future-accommodating, popularly marketable spiritual home base.
By far my first preference is the Junction. But surely Moorabbin has the fundamental credentials to make it work there too.

I'm keen to see what the Club says when they get back from the hols.

[stinger]

Whilst I love the idea of moving back to the Junction, the powers that be are dead against it. Moorabbin will (once again) be our oasis from the bureaucratic turds and tyrants.

"Bureaucratic turds and tyrants" was supposed to be the whole problem at Moorabbin, with the Kingston Council. Is it solved yet?

Though I passionately long for a home base at the Junction, wish we played at the G and not Etihad, and hated leaving the 'bin for Waverley, I think the only genuinely poor decision the club has made in the last 50 years was leaving Moorabbin for Seaford.
I understand some of the problems they were having with the Kingston Council at the time.
But as far as I can see, the sticking point came down to whether they could transfer all their poker machines form the old building to a new on on South Road. And from memory, the stupid council permit conditions was going to cost the club less than 10 machines in the wash-up.
If that really was the sticking point, then we managed to turn a pimple into a mountain for us to climb.
Councils come and go. Details can be renegotiated. Political sentiment changes.
How the hell couldn't we have negotiated our way that petty squabble, and saved all this subsequent heartache, and cost?
(Since we took our bat and ball off the Seaford, the Kingston council's planted out the car park with gum trees. Native trees, unfortunately, actually really are the ultimate political sticking point of the age)
Despite that particular frustration, isn't the core question now whether we can renegotiate a new home -- spiritual and functional -- at Moorabbin with the Kingston Council?
Does anybody know what the state of play is with that?

Another question, I suppose, is whether a modern AFL Club, with a Reserves side, needs more than one training oval.
If we do, then isn't that where we start negotiating standing arrangements with other places for occasional use of grounds and facilities. Like at the Junction (with Cricket Victoria during their off season) and/or Port Melbourne, or Elsternwick, or Sandringham, or Frankston or Seaford?

Maybe I haven't got the necessary logistics right.
But I do know that we need a big new, deeply-rooted, future-accommodating, popularly marketable spiritual home base.
By far my first preference is the Junction. But surely Moorabbin has the fundamental credentials to make it work there too.

I'm keen to see what the Club says when they get back from the hols.

doesn't the ground now fall under the jurisdiction of a different council

[plugger66]

Whilst I love the idea of moving back to the Junction, the powers that be are dead against it. Moorabbin will (once again) be our oasis from the bureaucratic turds and tyrants.

"Bureaucratic turds and tyrants" was supposed to be the whole problem at Moorabbin, with the Kingston Council. Is it solved yet?

Though I passionately long for a home base at the Junction, wish we played at the G and not Etihad, and hated leaving the 'bin for Waverley, I think the only genuinely poor decision the club has made in the last 50 years was leaving Moorabbin for Seaford.
I understand some of the problems they were having with the Kingston Council at the time.
But as far as I can see, the sticking point came down to whether they could transfer all their poker machines form the old building to a new on on South Road. And from memory, the stupid council permit conditions was going to cost the club less than 10 machines in the wash-up.
If that really was the sticking point, then we managed to turn a pimple into a mountain for us to climb.
Councils come and go. Details can be renegotiated. Political sentiment changes.
How the hell couldn't we have negotiated our way that petty squabble, and saved all this subsequent heartache, and cost?
(Since we took our bat and ball off the Seaford, the Kingston council's planted out the car park with gum trees. Native trees, unfortunately, actually really are the ultimate political sticking point of the age)
Despite that particular frustration, isn't the core question now whether we can renegotiate a new home -- spiritual and functional -- at Moorabbin with the Kingston Council?
Does anybody know what the state of play is with that?

Another question, I suppose, is whether a modern AFL Club, with a Reserves side, needs more than one training oval.
If we do, then isn't that where we start negotiating standing arrangements with other places for occasional use of grounds and facilities. Like at the Junction (with Cricket Victoria during their off season) and/or Port Melbourne, or Elsternwick, or Sandringham, or Frankston or Seaford?

Maybe I haven't got the necessary logistics right.
But I do know that we need a big new, deeply-rooted, future-accommodating, popularly marketable spiritual home base.
By far my first preference is the Junction. But surely Moorabbin has the fundamental credentials to make it work there too.

I'm keen to see what the Club says when they get back from the hols.

Councils change all the time and so do their opinions of certain things. I would suggest there is no problem with Kingston at the moment because we have permission for an 11 million dollar upgrade to Moorabbin to make it ready for VFL footy. It would seem so much more logically we try and get an increase in that money and make Moorabbin ready as an AFL training ground than spend huge dollars on Elsternwick park if swe have to move out of Seaford which I still don't understand.

[White Winmar]

This whole mess had its genesis with that incompetent narcissist, Grant Thomas. He wasn't capable of coaching us to wins in Tasmania, so he blamed the venue, not himself, in typical GT fashion. Hawthorn persevered and showed us how to do it. Failure to even make a GF with the list he had, sealed his reputation as one of the worst coaches, not just in our history, but that of the competition overall. He should never show his face at our club again.

[plugger66]

This whole mess had its genesis with that incompetent narcissist, Grant Thomas. He wasn't capable of coaching us to wins in Tasmania, so he blamed the venue, not himself, in typical GT fashion. Hawthorn persevered and showed us how to do it. Failure to even make a GF with the list he had, sealed his reputation as one of the worst coaches, not just in our history, but that of the competition overall. He should never show his face at our club again.

That is really harsh. Had he had more money to work with we may have had better conditioning. I agree he had a great list but He also had more injuries that could have been prevented with more money at the club.

[Sainternist]

This whole mess had its genesis with that incompetent narcissist, Grant Thomas. He wasn't capable of coaching us to wins in Tasmania, so he blamed the venue, not himself, in typical GT fashion. Hawthorn persevered and showed us how to do it. Failure to even make a GF with the list he had, sealed his reputation as one of the worst coaches, not just in our history, but that of the competition overall. He should never show his face at our club again.

Wow, and I thought Barks4eva was the expert at GT bashing.

[White Winmar]

This whole mess had its genesis with that incompetent narcissist, Grant Thomas. He wasn't capable of coaching us to wins in Tasmania, so he blamed the venue, not himself, in typical GT fashion. Hawthorn persevered and showed us how to do it. Failure to even make a GF with the list he had, sealed his reputation as one of the worst coaches, not just in our history, but that of the competition overall. He should never show his face at our club again.

That is really harsh. Had he had more money to work with we may have had better conditioning. I agree he had a great list but He also had more injuries that could have been prevented with more money at the club.

He had plenty of money to work with. It's just he spent it all on himself, the selfish prick. Our recruiting budget was 70 K a year under him. That was Bevo's salary, pretty much. At the same time, Geelong's recruiting budget was around 600K. No wonder we couldn't compete. We are still feeling the legacy of that incompetent idiot's actions. It's not "GT bashing", it's just the facts. Ever wonder why he hasn't bobbed up back at the saints or elsewhere? It's because no one, including ourselves will ever touch him again. He'll tell you it's because he won't work anywhere but the saints. The truth is, no one else would be stupid enough to hire him. Good riddance!

[White Winmar]

This whole mess had its genesis with that incompetent narcissist, Grant Thomas. He wasn't capable of coaching us to wins in Tasmania, so he blamed the venue, not himself, in typical GT fashion. Hawthorn persevered and showed us how to do it. Failure to even make a GF with the list he had, sealed his reputation as one of the worst coaches, not just in our history, but that of the competition overall. He should never show his face at our club again.

Wow, and I thought Barks4eva was the expert at GT bashing.

It's not "GT bashing", Sainternist. They are the facts. That selfish, lying narcissist cost us our best chance for a flag in the past forty years. He deserves nothing but contempt. He should also pay back the "overs" he paid himself during his "reign".

[plugger66]

This whole mess had its genesis with that incompetent narcissist, Grant Thomas. He wasn't capable of coaching us to wins in Tasmania, so he blamed the venue, not himself, in typical GT fashion. Hawthorn persevered and showed us how to do it. Failure to even make a GF with the list he had, sealed his reputation as one of the worst coaches, not just in our history, but that of the competition overall. He should never show his face at our club again.

That is really harsh. Had he had more money to work with we may have had better conditioning. I agree he had a great list but He also had more injuries that could have been prevented with more money at the club.

He had plenty of money to work with. It's just he spent it all on himself, the selfish prick. Our recruiting budget was 70 K a year under him. That was Bevo's salary, pretty much. At the same time, Geelong's recruiting budget was around 600K. No wonder we couldn't compete. We are still feeling the legacy of that incompetent idiot's actions. It's not "GT bashing", it's just the facts. Ever wonder why he hasn't bobbed up back at the saints or elsewhere? It's because no one, including ourselves will ever touch him again. He'll tell you it's because he won't work anywhere but the saints. The truth is, no one else would be stupid enough to hire him. Good riddance!

Seriously that's rubbish. He didn't control his salary, the board did and if they chose to pay overs its their fault, not his. He was doing about 3 jobs because the club couldn't afford to pay an individual a lot more than he was getting for that particular job. It isn't fact, its your words backed up by nothing really. I trust Rooy and Lenny as judges of reasonable characters and they both rated GT and Rooy still obviously rates him very highly. We have had many worse coaches I would think and we have had better ones. It doesn't take long to go back and find a worse coach and that was SW. And I will admit a little bias because I have met him a few times and found him a very nice guy if a bit unusual.

[White Winmar]

Like all narcissists, P66, he had a superficial charm. Intoxicated the younger players with it, but some of the older players weren't fooled. As for his salary, he negotiated it with the board. Was paid way over what he was worth as a rookie coach. Remember this is the man who along with RB, told us he was the best man for the job, even after an "exhaustive search" for the best candidate, which he later acknowledged was a sham and a lie. Please don't rewrite history. The bloke is a narcissist, liar and limited egotist.

I had plenty to do with him and he always struck me as smarmy and shallow. Rooy and Lenny were youngsters. Ask Banger, especially Andrew Thompson and Burkey as to what they though of him. Mature men, who were not fooled by his bulls*** and rhetoric. I can only wonder what we might have achieved with a competent coach.