Jack Steven contract

[bergholt]

The club does have one very hard decision to make though. If Jack receives an average offer we must match it because we wont get a first round pick but the big decision is if Jack receives a great offer we must decide if we match it because unlike when BJ left Jack is closer to finals at the Saints and is slightly younger and we have the money in the SC. So the decision the club will have is if they make Jack our highest paid player to keep him. I would keep him. You cant keep losing your best players to other sides.

Depends what happens around him next year. At the moment he's our only mid approaching A grade. If we get a serious step up from a few of Newnes, Ross, Webster, Wright, Dunstan, Billings etc then we're in a strong position going forward and we won't want to unbalance the pay structure. On the other hand, if we don't see many taking the next step then we've got to find someone to pay the SC to. In that case over-paying Jack to stay would make a lot of sense, and would maybe help get us back to competitive faster.

I actually think they're all good options:

- he gets a medium offer from outside, we match it and keep a very good player for cheap
- he gets a big offer from outside, we don't match it and get a very good pick
- he gets a big offer from outside, we match it and keep a very good player at full price

[gringo]

I can't understand why some seem to be so drunk on the idea of recruiting high picks that they would give up their best players in the hope of getting a guy as good? It seems a morons logic to me. It's not like Goddard or Dal who are not going to be around for another 7 years or so. This is a guy in his prime with a long career ahead. We have got pretty much one of the worst strike rates in the AFL for draft picks in the last 7 or so years and now we think we should sell off the good ones in hope of picking a good one to replace a good one???

[Con Gorozidis]

I can't understand why some seem to be so drunk on the idea of recruiting high picks that they would give up their best players in the hope of getting a guy as good? It seems a morons logic to me. It's not like Goddard or Dal who are not going to be around for another 7 years or so. This is a guy in his prime with a long career ahead. We have got pretty much one of the worst strike rates in the AFL for draft picks in the last 7 or so years and now we think we should sell off the good ones in hope of picking a good one to replace a good one???

Has anyone said that? I thought we were only contemplating the scenario where he actually wants to go?

[longtimesaint]

I can't understand why some seem to be so drunk on the idea of recruiting high picks that they would give up their best players in the hope of getting a guy as good? It seems a morons logic to me. It's not like Goddard or Dal who are not going to be around for another 7 years or so. This is a guy in his prime with a long career ahead. We have got pretty much one of the worst strike rates in the AFL for draft picks in the last 7 or so years and now we think we should sell off the good ones in hope of picking a good one to replace a good one???

Has anyone said that? I thought we were only contemplating the scenario where he actually wants to go?

Wouldn't we better off giving him an offer that is hard for him to refuse.
If other teams are offering that sort of a deal, surely we can match it to keep one of our best young players.

[hungry for a premiership]

Should we be watching the club to see how hard they're working to sign him up now?

[seano1]

why not see how he goes next season......too early to be putting the cart before the horse......many things can happen between now and the end of the season and just because some think of him a star player at our club does that mean he would fit in at others....he is not a Goddard who makes plays from any possie he plays in...hes not a Lenny who also sets up plays hes just a guy that can run and break lines and who often misses kicking the ball to the leading forward...as in Roo how many times were his kicks too long or too short ....so lets see how he goes

[Bluthy]

Mmm...some worrying signs with Jack. There is going to be a lot of heat come for him from other clubs. The problem for Jack is its going to be damn hard work for him for the next 4 years. He is going to be targeted and smashed by the oppo in the same way that Joey is because they are one of the few Saints that can actually hurt you. He's a little guy and they will be pummelling him in packs at every opportunity. The thought from a lot of teams this year will be "Stop Steven and their midfield won't be a threat and we can open up the game and get a percentage boost". Has he played any finals? He's hitting his prime now but he could be 28 before he even gets to play any finals. But he could go to Hawks or Geelong (he's from there isn't he) or North or Richmond and get finals experience straight away in a team surrounded by big bodied, quality mids where the pressure is off him. I couldn't blame him if he leaves to be honest, but If he sticks with us it will a brilliant act of loyalty. We need his ability to open the game up with speed to keep the oppo backline honest.

Some good points (as ever) Bluthy.

Jack wanting to play finals:
If so, I reckon that he should be looking at the likes of
Ought Power, Swines, Sons of Beaches, Teddy Bears, Swines (if their board doesn't lose its nerve during their mini rebuild), Poodles (maybe) and (big maybes) Wogans and Dreamons.
The others IMHO, will soon be on the decline.
Carlscum have peaked, and oh so predictably, that peak wasn't good enough. Richmond will do the same. Nuff Nuff are manically topping-up to prevent them from also following suite.

Protecting Jack:
I noticed that issue in the preseason game against the Hillbillies.
However, everyone keeps saying that outside runners are our problem, as we have plenty of in and under-type mids. So I'd simply suggest that Jack spends more time outside than inside.
Also, we have have some combative hard nuts that we can 'deploy' through the mid field to keep opposition snipers on their toes.
Armo', Weller, Membrey, Gears, Curren, Newnes (seems to be relishing the rough n' tumble now), Bruce (is quick too), and also Longer is not shrinking violet.
So I'm not so worried about that now.

Hopefully we keep Jack. He's a ripper. But I guess that at least we should have the worst case scenario covered, and hence be able to get reasonable compensation should we lose him.

Thoughts...?

I think Jack is going to have to do the same thing Joey has been forced to do - go outside his comfort zone and burrow into packs to get his own ball. After the loss of our prime extractor Lenny, in terms of quality inside workers we have Armo then.....maybe Dunstan - a player with one year under belt. Unless some of those guys you mention can really lift their game its going to be damn hard work getting any ball to the outside in clean fashion. Weller has the build to be a wrecking ball inside but has only showed something when playing as tagger. We will be basically trying to neutralise stoppages as best as possible this year. The weird thing is it MIGHT even make Jack a better player in the long run the way Ablett became an unstoppable player by having both inside and outside game. But its gunna damn hard work for Jack for 2-3 years having a tagger up his clacker each week. Lets hope the other players do fly the flag for him and even get a bit nasty. Suspensions cost us less than teams competing for what looks like will be a very tight top eight this year!!

[Dave McNamara]

That GAblett example may not be so far off the mark, B. I do however reckon that Jack can win his own footy no probs.

My concern was raised by that preseason game, where Jack was clearly being unfairly and excessively targeted off the ball.

But it doesn't matter which player it may be, if we want to succeed in big pressure cooker games of finals football,
then we need to be ready... we need to be prepared to make sure the opposition/s know that if they try that sorta' crap... there will be retribution!

Or, as it was once explained to Peter Keenan one day at Moorabbin in the early 70's...

We're like the Coles checkout chicks here, Crackers. We give receipts.

[plugger66]

That GAblett example may not be so far off the mark, B. I do however reckon that Jack can win his own footy no probs.

My concern was raised by that preseason game, where Jack was clearly being unfairly and excessively targeted off the ball.

But it doesn't matter which player it may be, if we want to succeed in big pressure cooker games of finals football,
then we need to be ready... we need to be prepared to make sure the opposition/s know that if they try that sorta' crap... there will be retribution!

Or, as it was once explained to Peter Keenan one day at Moorabbin in the early 70's...

We're like the Coles checkout chicks here, Crackers. We give receipts.

Dave no wonder you use that name. You really live in the past.

[SinCitySainter]

One of the things that need to be considered in these discussions is the sort of player Steven is.

He is a true line breaker with the ability to win his own ball but with just average disposal skills. His most important weapon is his pace.

Now, is this the sort of player who has a long career and is he likely to be around at our next push up the ladder?

Pace is one of the first things to go as a player gets older and unlike many other top midfielders I would not say that Jack was an elite football mind (I could be wrong it is just the impression I get) so it may be that he finds it difficult to adjust his game as his pace slows.
The club needs to be looking at this while making the call on where they see Jack in our rebuild.

I am not saying the club should be looking to offload him but that they must consider where his ability and body will be in 3 to 5 years in order to make a competent decision.

[samuraisaint]

I don't have the team list in front of me, but would like to know who is still on the list now from 2011 - not including players who were yet to debut?

[BadRossco]

I doubt Jack will attract big offers, he does have pace but skills are poor and he would be behind two or three other mids at every other team with the possible exception of the Dees. Even the Dees may have picked up a couple of better options this year. I suggest he will stay and continue to be a big fish I a small pond.

[bergholt]

I don't have the team list in front of me, but would like to know who is still on the list now from 2011 - not including players who were yet to debut?

13 players:

Siposs
Steven
Montagna
Riewoldt
Schneider
Geary
Gilbert
Armitage
Ray
Dempster
Fisher
Simpkin
Curren

[samuraisaint]

That's a goodly number. Should be plenty of quality experience around the place to develop the youth team around.

[Con Gorozidis]

I doubt Jack will attract big offers, he does have pace but skills are poor and he would be behind two or three other mids at every other team with the possible exception of the Dees. Even the Dees may have picked up a couple of better options this year. I suggest he will stay and continue to be a big fish I a small pond.

yep.
at our club he gets paid top 3 in a sc world of 95%.
at most others 10-15th.

[Con Gorozidis]

That's a goodly number. Should be plenty of quality experience around the place to develop the youth team around.

[magnifisaint]

I can see this guy leaving

[samuraisaint]

That depends a lot on what happens off field this year. I don't think he will personally, as I think he may be our next captain, but if things can improve - a shift back to Moorabbin or the Junction, boost in membership numbers, a bit more spirit on-field, he won't want to leave.

[The Redeemer]

The club does have one very hard decision to make though. If Jack receives an average offer we must match it because we wont get a first round pick but the big decision is if Jack receives a great offer we must decide if we match it because unlike when BJ left Jack is closer to finals at the Saints and is slightly younger and we have the money in the SC. So the decision the club will have is if they make Jack our highest paid player to keep him. I would keep him. You cant keep losing your best players to other sides.

Depends what happens around him next year. At the moment he's our only mid approaching A grade. If we get a serious step up from a few of Newnes, Ross, Webster, Wright, Dunstan, Billings etc then we're in a strong position going forward and we won't want to unbalance the pay structure. On the other hand, if we don't see many taking the next step then we've got to find someone to pay the SC to. In that case over-paying Jack to stay would make a lot of sense, and would maybe help get us back to competitive faster.

I actually think they're all good options:

- he gets a medium offer from outside, we match it and keep a very good player for cheap
- he gets a big offer from outside, we don't match it and get a very good pick
- he gets a big offer from outside, we match it and keep a very good player at full price

Keep him.

Ross, Webster, Wright have proven absolutely nothing.

We can afford to keep them all so make it happen.

It would take a huge offer for Jack to bail. If that was the case, I would expect us to chase for another similarly aged player.

We cannot become Melbourne and have a Frawley-type situation. That was plain ugly.

[gringo]

I can see this guy leaving

I keep saying it, he can't leave as he's a free agent but a restricted one I believe. We have total control as we can match any contract offer he gets. He might get paid a lot of money but the only way he goes is if we can't afford him. Considering we are paying future amounts to meet minimum cap spend I think he will be at the Saints for a while yet. If he's waiting on a contract that's fine. His management should be trying to see what offers he gets because he is in his premium earning bracket. The guy was driving a 1990s commodore at the start of this year, he's probably due a good wage now.

[spert]

Jack has played some top games for us, but in my opinion, has to do more and should show a little more leadership and authority in his game at this stage and really needs to go another step again in 2015.

[70s sainter]

I can see this guy leaving

I keep saying it, he can't leave as he's a free agent but a restricted one I believe. We have total control as we can match any contract offer he gets. He might get paid a lot of money but the only way he goes is if we can't afford him. Considering we are paying future amounts to meet minimum cap spend I think he will be at the Saints for a while yet. If he's waiting on a contract that's fine. His management should be trying to see what offers he gets because he is in his premium earning bracket. The guy was driving a 1990s commodore at the start of this year, he's probably due a good wage now.

I don't think any club has matched one of these high offers yet .
That's prob because you can get your early draft pick (prob around 2-3 for jack Steven ) and then spend that money on a free agent if you can get one .
End result = another gun midfielder for the same price + a very early draft pick as a bonus.
With other clubs doing the same thing with their own players it is prob creating its own market for free agents which is why jack Steven is being offered so much in the first place.
The more it happens - the more it happens .

[plugger66]

I can see this guy leaving

I keep saying it, he can't leave as he's a free agent but a restricted one I believe. We have total control as we can match any contract offer he gets. He might get paid a lot of money but the only way he goes is if we can't afford him. Considering we are paying future amounts to meet minimum cap spend I think he will be at the Saints for a while yet. If he's waiting on a contract that's fine. His management should be trying to see what offers he gets because he is in his premium earning bracket. The guy was driving a 1990s commodore at the start of this year, he's probably due a good wage now.

I don't think any club has matched one of these high offers yet .
That's prob because you can get your early draft pick (prob around 2-3 for jack Steven ) and then spend that money on a free agent if you can get one .
End result = another gun midfielder for the same price + a very early draft pick as a bonus.
With other clubs doing the same thing with their own players it is prob creating its own market for free agents which is why jack Steven is being offered so much in the first place.
The more it happens - the more it happens .

We would have to wait a year to get a FA otherwise there is no point.

[Hallalj#3]

I can see this guy leaving

I keep saying it, he can't leave as he's a free agent but a restricted one I believe. We have total control as we can match any contract offer he gets. He might get paid a lot of money but the only way he goes is if we can't afford him. Considering we are paying future amounts to meet minimum cap spend I think he will be at the Saints for a while yet. If he's waiting on a contract that's fine. His management should be trying to see what offers he gets because he is in his premium earning bracket. The guy was driving a 1990s commodore at the start of this year, he's probably due a good wage now.

I don't think any club has matched one of these high offers yet .
That's prob because you can get your early draft pick (prob around 2-3 for jack Steven ) and then spend that money on a free agent if you can get one .
End result = another gun midfielder for the same price + a very early draft pick as a bonus.
With other clubs doing the same thing with their own players it is prob creating its own market for free agents which is why jack Steven is being offered so much in the first place.
The more it happens - the more it happens .

We would have to wait a year to get a FA otherwise there is no point.

Allowing Jack Steven to walk is ridiculous, he doesn't strike me as someone who would leave anyway.

[plugger66]

I can see this guy leaving

I keep saying it, he can't leave as he's a free agent but a restricted one I believe. We have total control as we can match any contract offer he gets. He might get paid a lot of money but the only way he goes is if we can't afford him. Considering we are paying future amounts to meet minimum cap spend I think he will be at the Saints for a while yet. If he's waiting on a contract that's fine. His management should be trying to see what offers he gets because he is in his premium earning bracket. The guy was driving a 1990s commodore at the start of this year, he's probably due a good wage now.

I don't think any club has matched one of these high offers yet .
That's prob because you can get your early draft pick (prob around 2-3 for jack Steven ) and then spend that money on a free agent if you can get one .
End result = another gun midfielder for the same price + a very early draft pick as a bonus.
With other clubs doing the same thing with their own players it is prob creating its own market for free agents which is why jack Steven is being offered so much in the first place.
The more it happens - the more it happens .

We would have to wait a year to get a FA otherwise there is no point.

Allowing Jack Steven to walk is ridiculous, he doesn't strike me as someone who would leave anyway.

He strikes me like most people employed by someone. If there is a better job and more opportunity then you may take it.