Saints homeward bound!!

[plugger66]

I'm not sure people are giving management the credit for the job they are charged with. If the deal is crap they won't take it, why would they go into something that would damage future potential in all areas.

I'm pretty sure they'd be doing a complete assessment on benefits for all 3 locations. The return to our original home would be part of both a marketing strategy and a business plan. Saints would be wanting to gain a large share of future markets.

Im still wondering how our market share increases by where you train.

[gringo]

I'm not sure people are giving management the credit for the job they are charged with. If the deal is crap they won't take it, why would they go into something that would damage future potential in all areas.

I'm pretty sure they'd be doing a complete assessment on benefits for all 3 locations. The return to our original home would be part of both a marketing strategy and a business plan. Saints would be wanting to gain a large share of future markets.

If you have followed us long enough sometimes you wonder if we have ever made a good decision off field. Oppressive stadium deals, out of the way training facilities that look like they were designed for an under 9s team, jumping off tassie the list goes on.

Getting back to owning a geographic area would be a wise move for our future and rebranding with a new vision never hurts. Energy often brings more energy. You can't stop momentum easily so I'm just glad there are some people moving the vision beyond keeping our heads above water.

[Con Gorozidis]

In my humble opinion, the priority needs to be getting the club successful ON-field. The notion of us "returning home" to the Junction Oval while providing a warm and fuzzy feelgood vibe, does not have the same effect on the general well being of the club as having a competitive and WINNING football team. If there are funds already available for the redevelopment of Moorabbin, then we should seriously consider this before any further steps are taken. (IMHO)

I think it has an effect on field though. Luke Ball said the tour of the Lexus centre was a swaying factor in going to the Pies. If players feel part of a professional forward moving enterprise and engage in community work outside the on field stuff we can tempt outside players and keep the existing ones. It's symbolic as much as anything. Richmond did something similar when they started to rebuild. You can't always be winning but you can at least be making positive moves.

Yep and that tour can be anywhere. people do realise that the JO is a long way from where most players live now and wasn't that the reason some on here said some players don't like Seaford. Lets just get the facilities we can and make sure we control those facilities. And that can be on the moon for all it matters to supporters.

You are so stupid on this point (not surprising I suppose). Clearly the players chose to live near work like everyone else. So saying they live near there doesnt mean they want to or make Seaford a positive. Its merely an inconvenient necessity they have to put up with.

If we moved to the JO they would also move back near work - and 90% of them would prefer that. You seem to not understand the order of it.
And its far more than just a training base. It is the home to club admin staff and the club spirit.
Seaford is a dive with no soul and players and staff dont like it and dont like living near there. IN fact some prefer an hour commute rather than living nearby - and noone NOONE likes a long commute to work.

So according to you it doesnt matter where we train- so lets just move somewhere with cheap land and we can own everything freehold then? The players and staff can all live and buy big cheap houses nearby. Everyone wins according to you. And it doesnt effect other things. So why not a base at Pearcedale? Ticks all your boxes.

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-r ... -201067655

Lets face it Finnis wants JO. Gillon wants JO. Get with the program.

[Playon]

Thanks Playon, interesting POV there. Do you think that the Saints would totally abandon the peninsula if they moved to JO?

The last time St Kilda was in St Kilda was the early 60s, so I'd hope we would be more professional and more marketing savvy.

I think for a club struggling right now to survive, moving away from the action was a bad idea, but I think in 50 or so years it might pay off, if we have the security to wait that long.

I agree that maybe the area could be developed and made trendy but it would take more than just a few ex-players and a lot more time.

I understand that the auskick clinics are important. Hopefully the club will still get down the peninsula even if they move back to their original home.

I understand that your reasons are more personal than anything else, like a lot of us. Unless we become the first French AFL team, it doesn't really affect me one way or the other. I'd like to see us become strong and I feel that we can't do that while based on Seaford now, but deoendingbon how Melbourne and Victoria develop, it may be wisecto keep a foothold in the area.

Well I have to be a realist, if they move to the JO yes I do, With comments like helping the local community, sporting clubs etc in St Kilda they can't be everywhere at once. Auskick in the area will fade out.
I don't think its a matter of being away from the action. I think its a matter of giving up our home ground/s and having to play in a stadium where were in part paying it off. We should of kept Moorabbin the way it was and do a Geelong and ask for $70 mill to renovate the place.

The problem is that we have no money and have to accept handouts, money spent to build Seaford, Money to upgrade Moorabbin and now more to go back to the JO. I'm pretty sure that if we were to go back to the JO that would be the last handout we'd get for perhaps another 50 years. Anyone know the total of whats to be spent for us to train at the JO plus Moorabbin and Seaford?

I can't see us making a dime out of training at the JO and all we'll get it a warm fuzzy feeling inside that were back in St Kilda, back with CV again. That being a second rate unwanted tenant who will have to fit in with CV's schedule. We've outgrown the place before we even get there.

If I was a sponsor I couldn't care less where the club trains, however I would want to know whats in it for my company and what sort of exposure i'd get to advertise my brand. We'd be better off asking the question and perhaps seeking the help of other clubs to bring in a fairer draft.

Friday night football is prime time viewing and watched more than any other day and would be attractive to a sponsor. Yet Collingwood gets 6 friday night games this year and we get ONE and the only reason we got ONE was because its an away game where we play the pies.
How is that a draft? Is Channel 7 and the afl rigging in for TV rights? But no matter we keep getting our crappy Sunday games.

Personally I think we'd be better off rejecting the JO and asking for more for Moorabbin. getting it up to a very good VFL standard and then ask for futher development down the track. Who knows could we play a couple of games a year there with money well spent?

Seaford was badly planned, the ground is shoved in the corner and to expand it would most likely mean tearing it down and starting over.

Interesting Morrabbin history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorabbin_Oval

[Playon]

"Message to St Kilda: hands off the Junction Oval" by Dean Jones.

"Would St Kilda and its supporters really be happy moving from a dedicated football facility (first at Moorabbin and now in Seaford) to become a second-fiddle sub-tenant to cricket in Albert Park, with severely constrained land and no room for expansion?"
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/ ... 24pnm.html

I don't see anyone from CV hoping that we share their facilities or welcoming the idea

[SaintPav]

The JO would move would form one part of an integrated marketing strategy..as part of a new brand and marketing strategy..

It can't be that hard to understand...weather it works or not is another matter...but we do need to try something...

[Con Gorozidis]

I am definitely not being put off by Dean Jones.
He is a Blues man and probably hates our guts intensely.

He wont want to see anything good come our way. Most Blues fans get a lot of joy seeing us down in the gutter.
If anything dems fighting words - I hope we shove it right up him. We must rally against those that seek to have us remain weak and irrelevant.

We must rise from the ashes and the fringes and into the centre of commerce, sports and culture in Melbourne and beyond.

[White Winmar]

Dean Jones. Pfft! What a corkhead.

[Dave McNamara]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-12-18/s ... ant-return

Finnis later told AFL.com.au that while the AFL continued to talk to the government about the move, the Saints would ensure they remained in touch with the "local needs and interests of the community".

They will continue to talk to locals through January but were encouraged by the type of discussions that had already happened.

"The responsibility that we have is to engage with the local community, stakeholder groups, sporting clubs, traders and people who have a really strong interest in what is a really important recreational space," Finnis said.

"We think the Saints can add real value to the community in terms of the way we can work with the local schools, sporting clubs and actually provide a home for some of the sporting groups for the disadvantaged people in the area.


"For us, there has been a lot of talk about the Junction at a high level but the job for us is to consult with those local people.

"I think people can see there's a lot of goodwill to the idea."

Wow! That's really impressive.

Opposition or not to our return home. Irrelevant. This is what our great club should be all about!

And Matt F very clearly... 'gets it'.

Makes me so proud to read that.




JO will be huge for us and for our community. St Kilda FC. St Kilda community. A part of each other.

It's time to come home Saintas.

All the forces in the world are not so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

Can I say crap with a capital crap.

Clearly not... unless you concentrate and remember to hold down the 'Shift' key.

[PJ]

I'm not sure people are giving management the credit for the job they are charged with. If the deal is crap they won't take it, why would they go into something that would damage future potential in all areas.

I'm pretty sure they'd be doing a complete assessment on benefits for all 3 locations. The return to our original home would be part of both a marketing strategy and a business plan. Saints would be wanting to gain a large share of future markets.

Im still wondering how our market share increases by where you train.

Our market share improves through our managements ability to "sell" the club to a new prospective audience be they kids, converts, business identities (sponsorship), whomever. You would assess whether JO, Seaford or Moorrabbin has the better potential to progress the club. That can mean membership, sponsorship or a combination - Some past decisions have been poorly thought through, I'm hoping we are now better. It will probably have little to no affect on the teams ability to improve on field but a club is about all aspects of the business.If you wanted a more prominent public presence/profile where would you choose?

[The Fireman]

Pluggs is nearly sold on the idea....it will make it easier for him when it eventuates

[Bernard Shakey]

I'm not sure people are giving management the credit for the job they are charged with. If the deal is crap they won't take it, why would they go into something that would damage future potential in all areas.

I'm pretty sure they'd be doing a complete assessment on benefits for all 3 locations. The return to our original home would be part of both a marketing strategy and a business plan. Saints would be wanting to gain a large share of future markets.

If you have followed us long enough sometimes you wonder if we have ever made a good decision off field. Oppressive stadium deals, out of the way training facilities that look like they were designed for an under 9s team, jumping off tassie the list goes on.

Getting back to owning a geographic area would be a wise move for our future and rebranding with a new vision never hurts. Energy often brings more energy. You can't stop momentum easily so I'm just glad there are some people moving the vision beyond keeping our heads above water.

Are Hawthorn in Hawthorn?
Are Collingwood in Collingwood?
Are Essendon in Essendon?
These are the so called super clubs and they do not train in their suburban homeland. Get over it Junction Oval is a pipe dream!

[Con Gorozidis]

A pipe dream that may be delivered if Finnis and Mclachlan want it bad enough.

[plugger66]

Pluggs is nearly sold on the idea....it will make it easier for him when it eventuates

I don't care where we train as long as we have the best facilities and control those facilities. The problem is some on here think it fixes our issues. Well it doesn't. And one on here actually thinks we will play at the JO when the idea of this ground is to get CV their own ground and we maybe, yes maybe, an add on that CV don't want.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Pluggs is nearly sold on the idea....it will make it easier for him when it eventuates

I don't care where we train as long as we have the best facilities and control those facilities. The problem is some on here think it fixes our issues. Well it doesn't. And one on here actually thinks we will play at the JO when the idea of this ground is to get CV their own ground and we maybe, yes maybe, an add on that CV don't want.

If only there was a Junction Oval in Auckland, then two of or more vocal posters here would be over the moon.

Oh and I guarantee we will be the biggest club in the AFL and win multiple premierships, as well as having multi million dollar profits year in year out, if only we moved to JO and/or played two games a year in NZ

[thejiggingsaint]

Priority for the club just HAS to be: "successful ON the paddock" I really think we should be concerned with winning a Flag as an "aid to marketing etc" and getting diverted from this aim by indecision on where our "home" is (Moorabbin, Junction Oval, Seaford) does not a thing to help the overall health of the club. We have first class training facilities at Seaford. Moorabbin is still ours, why not let the politicians and AFL do what they do best ( ) and while they're farting about, just get on with the task of getting this club right ON FIELD!

[whiskers3614]

As usual Jiggster has nailed it!

[Con Gorozidis]

Priority for the club just HAS to be: "successful ON the paddock" I really think we should be concerned with winning a Flag as an "aid to marketing etc" and getting diverted from this aim by indecision on where our "home" is (Moorabbin, Junction Oval, Seaford) does not a thing to help the overall health of the club. We have first class training facilities at Seaford. Moorabbin is still ours, why not let the politicians and AFL do what they do best ( ) and while they're farting about, just get on with the task of getting this club right ON FIELD!

Noone is suggesting the footy dept is involved but for comedy sake:

Paddy McCartin - Business Plan
Armo - Financial modelling
Billings - Community engagement
White - CV Liaison
Newnes - Government Relations
Steven - Planning and land issues
Richardson - Corporate Liaison (pokies)
Riewoldt - Corporate Liaison (sponsors)

[thejiggingsaint]

Sounds like a plan Con!

[The Fireman]

I'm not sure people are giving management the credit for the job they are charged with. If the deal is crap they won't take it, why would they go into something that would damage future potential in all areas.

I'm pretty sure they'd be doing a complete assessment on benefits for all 3 locations. The return to our original home would be part of both a marketing strategy and a business plan. Saints would be wanting to gain a large share of future markets.

If you have followed us long enough sometimes you wonder if we have ever made a good decision off field. Oppressive stadium deals, out of the way training facilities that look like they were designed for an under 9s team, jumping off tassie the list goes on.

Getting back to owning a geographic area would be a wise move for our future and rebranding with a new vision never hurts. Energy often brings more energy. You can't stop momentum easily so I'm just glad there are some people moving the vision beyond keeping our heads above water.

Are Hawthorn in Hawthorn?
Are Collingwood in Collingwood?
Are Essendon in Essendon?
These are the so called super clubs and they do not train in their suburban homeland. Get over it Junction Oval is a pipe dream!

they have the money..they can do what they bloody well like..we need to start selling ourselves,,the JO would be a good start..pipe dream ? it's a dream.. a good one.

[Dave McNamara]

Are Hawthorn in Hawthorn?
Are Collingwood in Collingwood?
Are Essendon in Essendon?
These are the so called super clubs and they do not train in their suburban homeland. Get over it Junction Oval is a pipe dream!

Excellent point there Bernard!

No. Those teams are not in their suburbs.

And no, their suburbs are not the iconic St Kilda.

And... that's the point!


No one else in the comp' has what we have.

It's called actually standing for something tangible.
It's called actually representing a tangible location and community.
It's called actually being true to one's origins and to one's history.

Connectedness. Meaning...

Without this, most of the vanilla clubs are more and more becoming meaningless and soulless brand names only. And what little (or no) connection to their roots/to their origins still remains... that is ever further diminishing.

(This is the very cancer that one previous VFL/AFL club allowed to eat away at its very fabric late last century... )

The vanilla clubs are becoming (or already are) just soulless brand names.

Our great club is better than that! We've always had character, soul, meaning, a point of difference to the herd.
We are the St Kilda footy club. We are still the St Kilda footy club. A grass roots foundation club. A real club. We have soul and we have a spirit.

And in this world where everything is changing, and where traditional cultural values are forever being watered down, and then lost forever, this connection and meaning... is worth plenty!

It is very very 'marketable' to supporters, to players, to the media... and to sponsors.



Oh, and sure, for those vanilla clubs that can still claim to be in the place from which they drew their origin, well, said places are simply not the iconic funky town St Kilda. The name, the place, the history, the vibe and the spirit... no one else has what we have.

And to fully tap in, we must be there! We must return home! Iconic name. Iconic footy club. Iconic suburb.

[plugger66]

Are Hawthorn in Hawthorn?
Are Collingwood in Collingwood?
Are Essendon in Essendon?
These are the so called super clubs and they do not train in their suburban homeland. Get over it Junction Oval is a pipe dream!

Excellent point there Bernard!

No. Those teams are not in their suburbs.

And no, their suburbs are not the iconic St Kilda.

And... that's the point!


No one else in the comp' has what we have.

It's called actually standing for something tangible.
It's called actually representing a tangible location and community.
It's called actually being true to one's origins and to one's history.

Connectedness. Meaning...

Without this, most of the vanilla clubs are more and more becoming meaningless and soulless brand names only. And what little (or no) connection to their roots/to their origins still remains... that is ever further diminishing.

(This is the very cancer that one previous VFL/AFL club allowed to eat away at its very fabric late last century... )

The vanilla clubs are becoming (or already are) just soulless brand names.

Our great club is better than that! We've always had character, soul, meaning, a point of difference to the herd.
We are the St Kilda footy club. We are still the St Kilda footy club. A grass roots foundation club. A real club. We have soul and we have a spirit.

And in this world where everything is changing, and where traditional cultural values are forever being watered down, and then lost forever, this connection and meaning... is worth plenty!

It is very very 'marketable' to supporters, to players, to the media... and to sponsors.



Oh, and sure, for those vanilla clubs that can still claim to be in the place from which they drew their origin, well, said places are simply not the iconic funky town St Kilda. The name, the place, the history, the vibe and the spirit... no one else has what we have.

And to fully tap in, we must be there! We must return home! Iconic name. Iconic footy club. Iconic suburb.

Sounds fair enough if we had never been in StKilda before but we have and we were a nothing club then and we actually played at the JO and we couldn't become an icon club. All we will be doing now is training over the road from the JO. Not sure that will make us an icon club. And using emotive words doesn't mean the move will be a success like you think. Luckily the club will actually use facts before making a decision to move.

[thejiggingsaint]

"vanilla clubs" who have won (several) flags. I'm a Sainter till they're nailing the lid down! and quite honestly, will remain so WHEREVER the club may be based!

[Dave McNamara]

"vanilla clubs" who have won (several) flags. I'm a Sainter till they're nailing the lid down! and quite honestly, will remain so WHEREVER the club may be based!

Me too, Dave.


Interestingly though re premiership successes...

- Fitzroy's eight flags didn't help them.
- Dawks in 1995 were coming off arguably the most successful era in VFL/AFL history... and came within a whisker of death by - amalgamation.
- Their would be partners in that suicide pact... are the team who's successful era is the one historians can 'toss up' with that of the Dawks as to which was the greatest era...
- Tugger's 1980 flag team would be a contender for the most powerful of all time... just a couple of years later, and the debt collectors were walking out the Punt Road doors with their 1974 Premiership Cup because the club couldn't pay a small bill.
- The team they beat in 1980, just a couple of years later, for 20 wonderful minutes, that club was wound up by the National Australia bank. Word had it McAlister literally went down on his knees pleading for the bank to give them more time... they did.
Damn!

[Dave McNamara]

Are Hawthorn in Hawthorn?
Are Collingwood in Collingwood?
Are Essendon in Essendon?
These are the so called super clubs and they do not train in their suburban homeland. Get over it Junction Oval is a pipe dream!

Excellent point there Bernard!

No. Those teams are not in their suburbs.

And no, their suburbs are not the iconic St Kilda.

And... that's the point!


No one else in the comp' has what we have.

It's called actually standing for something tangible.
It's called actually representing a tangible location and community.
It's called actually being true to one's origins and to one's history.

Connectedness. Meaning...

Without this, most of the vanilla clubs are more and more becoming meaningless and soulless brand names only. And what little (or no) connection to their roots/to their origins still remains... that is ever further diminishing.

(This is the very cancer that one previous VFL/AFL club allowed to eat away at its very fabric late last century... )

The vanilla clubs are becoming (or already are) just soulless brand names.

Our great club is better than that! We've always had character, soul, meaning, a point of difference to the herd.
We are the St Kilda footy club. We are still the St Kilda footy club. A grass roots foundation club. A real club. We have soul and we have a spirit.

And in this world where everything is changing, and where traditional cultural values are forever being watered down, and then lost forever, this connection and meaning... is worth plenty!

It is very very 'marketable' to supporters, to players, to the media... and to sponsors.



Oh, and sure, for those vanilla clubs that can still claim to be in the place from which they drew their origin, well, said places are simply not the iconic funky town St Kilda. The name, the place, the history, the vibe and the spirit... no one else has what we have.

And to fully tap in, we must be there! We must return home! Iconic name. Iconic footy club. Iconic suburb.

Sounds fair enough if we had never been in StKilda before but we have and we were a nothing club then and we actually played at the JO and we couldn't become an icon club. All we will be doing now is training over the road from the JO. Not sure that will make us an icon club. And using emotive words doesn't mean the move will be a success like you think. Luckily the club will actually use facts before making a decision to move.

Still plenty of water needs to flow under that bridge, P66... but, looks like... you're starting to 'get it'.

The ox is slow, but the earth is patient.