Rookie draft selections

[saintbrat]

trout on the rookies

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2014-12- ... ny-elshaug

[plugger66]

Lordy Lordy, what happened here?

Could it be that our recruiters simply want the best talent on our list and considering the next few drafts are expected to be loaded with mids we didn't just get mids who we didn't rate?

Last year we got Eli, Luke, Mav, Jack and Blake. This year McKenzie and Sinclair are meant to have potential as mids and Lonie might become a Schneider like mid/forward.

That's a fair bit of talent into our midfield.

We also sured up our key positional posts, Goddard, McCartin and Payne look to be wonderful additions.

I really wonder what some people actually expect in our drafting. Rome wasn't built in a day

Well in defence of others its mainly me who isn't 100% happy with the non drafting of mids this year and the amount of untried players we got. We got 7 tried players and 6 untried. I reckon the balance is wrong but its only my opinion and I hope I am completely wrong. It wont stop me saying im a little disappointed though. And considering I always get accused of supporting the club no matter what I think I am entitled to that opinion. By the way I was bloody close with the suggest the PSD is basically finished. We certainly cant rely on that way of getting players next year. I certainly don't think the club will be working on getting a proven player that way.

[HJ_Mitch]

Lordy Lordy, what happened here?

Could it be that our recruiters simply want the best talent on our list and considering the next few drafts are expected to be loaded with mids we didn't just get mids who we didn't rate?

Last year we got Eli, Luke, Mav, Jack and Blake. This year McKenzie and Sinclair are meant to have potential as mids and Lonie might become a Schneider like mid/forward.

That's a fair bit of talent into our midfield.

We also sured up our key positional posts, Goddard, McCartin and Payne look to be wonderful additions.

I really wonder what some people actually expect in our drafting. Rome wasn't built in a day

Well in defence of others its mainly me who isn't 100% happy with the non drafting of mids this year and the amount of untried players we got. We got 7 tried players and 6 untried. I reckon the balance is wrong but its only my opinion and I hope I am completely wrong. It wont stop me saying im a little disappointed though. And considering I always get accused of supporting the club no matter what I think I am entitled to that opinion. By the way I was bloody close with the suggest the PSD is basically finished. We certainly cant rely on that way of getting players next year. I certainly don't think the club will be working on getting a proven player that way.

I enjoy your opinions in this submission, Plugger. The pre-season draft was always a non-event and I doubt whether any Club would rely on it for future success.

[Con Gorozidis]

So we had 8 picks in the drafts and picked 6 Victorians and 2 ex incumbents. Noone outside a 100km radius was deemed good enough.


I dont care what anyone says. That doesn't add up.
It smacks of localism.
U cant tell me with 8 picks that it just happened that those were the best 8 available at each pick.
It simply belies all probabilities.
Clearly our recruiters and resources wont look beyond their own front yards. We have a problem people.

Im very dubious. When did the pelch arrive exactly?
At least the pelch knows how to recruit from everywhere.
Tassie wa sa qld.

[Saintberra]

So we had 8 picks in the drafts and picked 6 Victorians and 2 ex incumbents. Noone outside a 100km radius was deemed good enough.


I dont care what anyone says. That doesn't add up.
It smacks of localism.

I don't even know how to reply to this

[Con Gorozidis]

Give it a go berra.
We have a piss ant small town mentality sometimes and it's worrying.

SA have won the u 18 national champs two years running and people want to pull their puds about a tac cup premiership. If tac cup was so superior then vic metro would destroy sa every year but they dont.

Piss ants.

[SuperDuper]

calm down a little Con and Plugs,

Firstly, Elshaugh is definitely thorough... and he also puts a lot of weight to "good people" and "good families".
Time will tell whether his drafting strategy and abilities leads us up the ladder. Make no mistake, Elshaugh is the most important person in our club right now...

As for this rookie draft, it seems these 2 guys were rated reasonably highly.... so we took them..

We then took Saad and Schneider, but **it is almost certain that we took them partly because Trout thought there was no-one else worth taking**

I am sure we would have sacrificed Saad if there were more worthy people on his draft board, such as an Eli Templeton who he rated highly last year.. but the talent pool any year only goes so deep..
In fact, we proved this by taking Saad at pick 3. We risked losing him to Carlton or whoever else, because our priority was to take youngsters but only **if they were rated highhly on our draft board**... only after taking the youngsters did we take Saad


Pluggs, you are complaining of "only 6" untried players this year. If drafting well, one needs ~2.5 players from each draft to come through and be AFL standard players... getting 3 or in one year is a win. Again.. the pool of players is only so deep... getting 2 extra rookies who are rated as "basically no chance of making it" would not have helped us..

So: the choice was to waste 2 picks on people who do not have AFL chances.. or get Saad and Schneider...

The advantage of the latter, is that the coaches **know exactly how those 2 guys prepare and train**
Their experience and professionalism may be better for the young group, than having 2 extra nervous, below AFL standard rookies who bring down the training standards... the players who were drafted will just think this this AFL thing is a doddle if those duds can be on list... while Saad and Shnieder are professinals... certainly dislodgable from the team, but only with quite a bit of effort

[Devilhead]

I dont care what anyone says. That doesn't add up.
It smacks of localism.
U cant tell me with 8 picks that it just happened that those were the best 8 available at each pick.
It simply belies all probabilities.

Yet it is probable that it could happen

That's enough crack for one day Con - please leave some for us!!

[St Ick]

I think you are reading too much into it Con.

Last year we drafted two Tasmanians, one kid from WA, SA and Vic.

This year, well, maybe the kids we wanted at our picks jist happened to be Vics. It was pretty well known beforehand that Vic kids were going to dominate this draft.

SA won the champs with a talented team, they didn't have many real standouts. WA were similar, NSW and Qld kids are largely taken by academies.

If we draft only Vic kids for a few drafts in a row and skip some obvious choices then I think you may have a point but until that happens I think you are jumping the gun a little bit.

[plugger66]

calm down a little Con and Plugs,

Firstly, Elshaugh is definitely thorough... and he also puts a lot of weight to "good people" and "good families".
Time will tell whether his drafting strategy and abilities leads us up the ladder. Make no mistake, Elshaugh is the most important person in our club right now...

As for this rookie draft, it seems these 2 guys were rated reasonably highly.... so we took them..

We then took Saad and Schneider, but **it is almost certain that we took them partly because Trout thought there was no-one else worth taking**

I am sure we would have sacrificed Saad if there were more worthy people on his draft board, such as an Eli Templeton who he rated highly last year.. but the talent pool any year only goes so deep..
In fact, we proved this by taking Saad at pick 3. We risked losing him to Carlton or whoever else, because our priority was to take youngsters but only **if they were rated highhly on our draft board**... only after taking the youngsters did we take Saad


Pluggs, you are complaining of "only 6" untried players this year. If drafting well, one needs ~2.5 players from each draft to come through and be AFL standard players... getting 3 or in one year is a win. Again.. the pool of players is only so deep... getting 2 extra rookies who are rated as "basically no chance of making it" would not have helped us..

So: the choice was to waste 2 picks on people who do not have AFL chances.. or get Saad and Schneider...

The advantage of the latter, is that the coaches **know exactly how those 2 guys prepare and train**
Their experience and professionalism may be better for the young group, than having 2 extra nervous, below AFL standard rookies who bring down the training standards... the players who were drafted will just think this this AFL thing is a doddle if those duds can be on list... while Saad and Shnieder are professinals... certainly dislodgable from the team, but only with quite a bit of effort

This isn't local footy. The standard of the last rookie player wouldn't bring down training at all otherwise the clubs taking players after our next live pick are in trouble. I agree that if 3 players make it then its a fantastic draft but its a numbers game and the more you draft the more hope of players are at making it. Less hope than pick one but still a hope. Im sure a round 4 draft pick has made it previously. Not many maybe. It could only be one but its still a risk worth taking IMO. Anyway we have got what we have got and nothing will change that so hopefully we have a 2001 draft and that will ensure the clubs kicks on very quickly.

Con I wish you would get off the club just taking players because they are close. You do have your favourite topics and this is your new one. Can you tell us why we didn't do what you are complaining about last year. Its a stupid comment.

[kosifantutti]

Give it a go berra.
We have a piss ant small town mentality sometimes and it's worrying.

SA have won the u 18 national champs two years running and people want to pull their puds about a tac cup premiership. If tac cup was so superior then vic metro would destroy sa every year but they dont.

Piss ants.

I guess that explains why Adelaide and Port took one player between them from SA out of eight picks in the National draft.

[amusingname]

Give it a go berra.
We have a piss ant small town mentality sometimes and it's worrying.

SA have won the u 18 national champs two years running and people want to pull their puds about a tac cup premiership. If tac cup was so superior then vic metro would destroy sa every year but they dont.

Piss ants.

Wouldn't it be a fairer comparison be if Vic Metro and Country was one team and played SA? TAC cup covers more than just the metro area. An All-Victoria team would absolutely cream SA.

[magnifisaint]

Some of you guys need to wait 12 months before bagging the club out about the rookies taken. I bet you wouldn't how good or bad these guys could be (excluding Schnieder and Saad). Just give it a break. In some people's eyes the club can do no right.

[Pleasing]

With only the highlights packages to go on Sinclair looks to have the tools to make it: quick, reads the fall of the ball, likes a goal is dual sided and kicks to advantage. Not sure he handballs at all in the highlights and the kicking is mostly short to medium so not sure about penetration with kicking. Seems a reasonable size that will fill out. Looks like he could play on ball but probably more outside than in. Maybe his ex-junior coach can elaborate on strengths and weaknesses.

Payne will be interesting to see where they end up playing him forward or back bit like Goddard. Also has apparently grown 2 inches in the last year so is potentially still growing at 193 already. Good rookie punt based on scope for further improvement.

The debate on our future midfield is a bit muddled I think we have plenty of young mids on the list we are just not sure about their quality.

Dunstan, Curran, Weller, Ross, Armitage and Steven - These guys are pretty much onballers only not a lot of scope to play elsewhere despite the less than successful experiments with Curran as the defensive forward.

Then we have: Billings Acres Newnes Minchington Murdoch Wright Webster Saunders Savage Templeton Markworth McKenzie Lonie and Sinclair not to mention talk of Membury becoming a big bodied mid, that no doubt all have their eyes on moving into the midfield.

What we lack is certainty that any of them will develop to be elite midfielders but no shortage of numbers. High hopes that Billings Acres Dunstan can all be A grade midfielders and fingers crossed for Webster Murdoch and now McKenzie who all show potential to get to that level. One or two others will suprise with their development and many will disappoint no doubt.

Add the best young midfielder in the country next year and targeted use of Free Agency and we have the makings of a finals side down the track

If we played all the youngsters i'd like to see get game time next year there will be a huge log jam for spots in the senior side could be a revolving door at the selection table next year.

[Con Gorozidis]

When we picked up kids from interstate

Hickey - Qld
Webster - Tassie
Acres - WA
Dunstan - SA

Wasnt Pelch on board? Pelch left and suddenly we retreated into our local shell. Its all well and good to focus on 'families' but doesn't that create a disadvantage for interstate kids and lead to a selection bias? Some kid might be a champion and from a champion family but if he lives in Kalgoorlie well our recruiters will never know because they wont be able to 'pop around for a chat'.

[Con Gorozidis]

Some of you guys need to wait 12 months before bagging the club out about the rookies taken. I bet you wouldn't how good or bad these guys could be (excluding Schnieder and Saad). Just give it a break. In some people's eyes the club can do no right.

In some peoples eyes it can do no wrong.

I give the club plenty of praise. I think in the last 2-3 years the club has done most things right in tough circumstances.

On the surface of it - our Rookie draft selections seem lazy. How far and wide have we really looked for the best players?

[Con Gorozidis]

Give it a go berra.
We have a piss ant small town mentality sometimes and it's worrying.

SA have won the u 18 national champs two years running and people want to pull their puds about a tac cup premiership. If tac cup was so superior then vic metro would destroy sa every year but they dont.

Piss ants.

I guess that explains why Adelaide and Port took one player between them from SA out of eight picks in the National draft.

Well nice comparison smart ass but the Crows went for Lever at 14 (bargain)! Then a SANFL kid then a WAFL kid.
Port picked up a kid from Murray Bushrangers, a NEAFL kid plus a WAFL kid.

So thanks for helping prove my point. Every club looks far and wide - but the Saints - amazingly stick to a 70km radius.

Either amazing coincidence - or we are lazy.

Defend your narrow mind all day long .

[FQF]

Give it a go berra.
We have a piss ant small town mentality sometimes and it's worrying.

SA have won the u 18 national champs two years running and people want to pull their puds about a tac cup premiership. If tac cup was so superior then vic metro would destroy sa every year but they dont.

Piss ants.

I guess that explains why Adelaide and Port took one player between them from SA out of eight picks in the National draft.

Well nice comparison smart ass but the Crows went for Lever at 14 (bargain)! Then a SANFL kid then a WAFL kid.
Port picked up a kid from Murray Bushrangers, a NEAFL kid plus a WAFL kid.

So thanks for helping prove my point. Every club looks far and wide - but the Saints - amazingly stick to a 70km radius.

Either amazing coincidence - or we are lazy.

Defend your narrow mind all day long .

What's with the ad hominem attack? Uncalled for.

Almost every draft expert in the country had McCartin/Goddard/McKenzie as worthwhile choices at their picks.

In fact, I recall the many posters who were lashing out at our recruiters for being TOO thorough in taking McCartin over Petracca when they should have taken the easy choice.

Your complaints, which just so happen to have nothing to do with any of the particular players in question, are bizarre. Your accusation that the recruiters are lazy is outrageous.

[kosifantutti]

Give it a go berra.
We have a piss ant small town mentality sometimes and it's worrying.

SA have won the u 18 national champs two years running and people want to pull their puds about a tac cup premiership. If tac cup was so superior then vic metro would destroy sa every year but they dont.

Piss ants.

I guess that explains why Adelaide and Port took one player between them from SA out of eight picks in the National draft.

Well nice comparison smart ass but the Crows went for Lever at 14 (bargain)! Then a SANFL kid then a WAFL kid.
Port picked up a kid from Murray Bushrangers, a NEAFL kid plus a WAFL kid.

So thanks for helping prove my point. Every club looks far and wide - but the Saints - amazingly stick to a 70km radius.

Either amazing coincidence - or we are lazy.

Defend your narrow mind all day long .

You're talking about the rookie draft. Players 70-120 in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure what it costs to bring a kid to Melbourne and look after them but if you have two similar players (how much different can players 70 and 71 be) take the local one who won't have a go home factor. Which is exactly what the Crows and Power did.

Maybe you can tell us which South Australian kid we should have taken instead of McCartin, Goddard, McKenzie and Lonie.

[kosifantutti]

I realise you're not talking about rookie draft Con, but all too hard to edit on phone.

[derby Street]

Give it a go berra.
We have a piss ant small town mentality sometimes and it's worrying.

SA have won the u 18 national champs two years running and people want to pull their puds about a tac cup premiership. If tac cup was so superior then vic metro would destroy sa every year but they dont.

Piss ants.

But if it was all Victoria and not just metro then perhaps they would destroy SA. How many players got drafted in total from the Sate champs by ALL AFL teams, seems it is not just the Saints who steered clear?

[Con Gorozidis]

But some of the vic country kids dont play tac cup.
Nor did riewoldt or fisher.
The best oakliegh players were Moore Mclean and De Goey.

[amusingname]

But some of the vic country kids dont play tac cup.
Nor did riewoldt or fisher.
The best oakliegh players were Moore Mclean and De Goey.

I don't understand the point you are making. The vic county squad comes through the TAC cup system with the regional teams being the rep teams for the areas, some of the boys might not play much TAC cup, but the same with some Vic metro boys and school commitments.

Reiwoldt and Fisher were from outside Vic so couldn't play TAC cup, I would hazard a guess that they would have (at least Reiwoldt given Sam's other sporting pursuits) if they were from Vic.

The guys you named were good for Oakleigh, hence why they were drafted reasonably early on.

[SuperDuper]

Anyway, regardess of where the 2 youngsters played their footy... my greatest beef with our rookie selections was not taking Cam Delaney.

We should have taken the 2 youngsters + Delaney + either Saad OR Schneider...

A better mix.. and Delaney is good... and young.. and plays an important position, i.e. tall KPD.. we should have used our 2nd round rookie pick on him... having allowed North to select him 1st round

[saintsRrising]

Anyway, regardess of where the 2 youngsters played their footy... my greatest beef with our rookie selections was not taking Cam Delaney.

We should have taken the 2 youngsters + Delaney + either Saad OR Schneider...

A better mix.. and Delaney is good... and young.. and plays an important position, i.e. tall KPD.. we should have used our 2nd round rookie pick on him... having allowed North to select him 1st round

I think that he has a few injury concerns.


But with his brother as a lock at FB, and Goddard recruited did we need him?