StKilda changes everything -article

[Dave McNamara]

Do we plan on moving the Social Club there, because that is where we make any money other than when we are playing. Chances are it wont because there is no way the new council will allow any more pokies into the vicinity. As P66, Hawthorn moving to Waverley hasn't hurt them, in fact there membership is greater than it ever was when they were at Glenferrie.
Our membership was at it's highest in 2010, when we were in contention and favourites for the premiership if you remember. If we don't win games, the Junction oval wont make one once of difference and we'll end up being crickets poor second cousin again.
It is a feel good thing going back to the vicinity of the Junction Oval, but our saviours will be how good our draft picks turn out, and how many games we win, not where we train.

The pokies would not be moved to St Kilda!

Would remain at Moorabbin (either get rid of them, or have a very strict policy to make sure no one is losing more than they can afford). They only bring in about $2.1 million, which is virually nothing compared with the likes of the Skunks, the Paperbaggers, and the oxymoronically self-proclaimed (is that a word?) 'family club'. I'm also informed that the Hillbillies actually lost money on their Point Cook venue, and are probably going to ditch it.

We can make more money as good community citizens, back in St Kilda, and without the (formerly) one-armed bandits.

As Ive said before Dave you may feel better that we don't have pokies but it is likely that if we got rid of them they could be taken over by a Mathieson type. The pokies will still be in area and the same people will still lose their money. We may as well as well get the money. At least AFL clubs are basically non profit clubs. And I have no idea what the heell those names even mean. And we couldn't make money in St Kilda last time we were there. It isn't going to solve anything. Winning will help though.

Pokies: We largely agree - see (either get rid of them, or have a very strict policy to make sure no one is losing more than they can afford).

Heell names: I can guess what that means, just as you do know which clubs I'm refering to. But for fun, lets start with one... which club hypocritically calls itself the 'family club'...?

Last time (In St Kilda): This time we won't be handing most of our takings over to that stupid cricket club. And how will those takings be made and grown? Heaps of ways have already been listed, and we aren't marketing people, so I reckon that any half decent marketing person would have a field day with all the possibilities of marketing the icon St Kilda footy club based in its home community, the icon suburb that is St Kilda. It certainly seems that Matt F 'gets it'.




PS: From an earlier post. Of course we trained over the road during cricket season when we were at the Junction Oval. All the other clubs would have done the equivalent back in the day. And last week I was even speaking with an old timer (played in Brighton's last VFA premeiership) who remembers watching the Saints train 'over the road'.

PPS: Yes, zoning did not help us as much as other clubs, but the reason for our fall was trying to service the debt on Moorabbin when interest rates went way up in the mid '70s. So P66, please check your history before calling me Tony Abbott. Ta.

[plugger66]

Do we plan on moving the Social Club there, because that is where we make any money other than when we are playing. Chances are it wont because there is no way the new council will allow any more pokies into the vicinity. As P66, Hawthorn moving to Waverley hasn't hurt them, in fact there membership is greater than it ever was when they were at Glenferrie.
Our membership was at it's highest in 2010, when we were in contention and favourites for the premiership if you remember. If we don't win games, the Junction oval wont make one once of difference and we'll end up being crickets poor second cousin again.
It is a feel good thing going back to the vicinity of the Junction Oval, but our saviours will be how good our draft picks turn out, and how many games we win, not where we train.

The pokies would not be moved to St Kilda!

Would remain at Moorabbin (either get rid of them, or have a very strict policy to make sure no one is losing more than they can afford). They only bring in about $2.1 million, which is virually nothing compared with the likes of the Skunks, the Paperbaggers, and the oxymoronically self-proclaimed (is that a word?) 'family club'. I'm also informed that the Hillbillies actually lost money on their Point Cook venue, and are probably going to ditch it.

We can make more money as good community citizens, back in St Kilda, and without the (formerly) one-armed bandits.

As Ive said before Dave you may feel better that we don't have pokies but it is likely that if we got rid of them they could be taken over by a Mathieson type. The pokies will still be in area and the same people will still lose their money. We may as well as well get the money. At least AFL clubs are basically non profit clubs. And I have no idea what the heell those names even mean. And we couldn't make money in St Kilda last time we were there. It isn't going to solve anything. Winning will help though.

Pokies: We largely agree - see (either get rid of them, or have a very strict policy to make sure no one is losing more than they can afford).

Heell names: I can guess what that means, just as you do know which clubs I'm refering to. But for fun, lets start with one... which club hypocritically calls itself the 'family club'...?

Last time (In St Kilda): This time we won't be handing most of our takings over to that stupid cricket club. And how will those takings be made and grown? Heaps of ways have already been listed, and we aren't marketing people, so I reckon that any half decent marketing person would have a field day with all the possibilities of marketing the icon St Kilda footy club based in its home community, the icon suburb that is St Kilda. It certainly seems that Matt F 'gets it'.




PS: From an earlier post. Of course we trained over the road during cricket season when we were at the Junction Oval. All the other clubs would have done the equivalent back in the day. And last week I was even speaking with an old timer (played in Brighton's last VFA premeiership) who remembers watching the Saints train 'over the road'.

PPS: Yes, zoning did not help us as much as other clubs, but the reason for our fall was trying to service the debt on Moorabbin when interest rates went way up in the mid '70s. So P66, please check your history before calling me Tony Abbott. Ta.

Of course we didn't train over the road. This is pre 1965. We trained twice a week from 6pm. They didn't even start training until about Febuary. They also needed lights. There were no lights over the road. I have never heard so much rubbish. I never mentioned Zones Dave but if you can prove that I will say sorry otherwise youe are lying.

[Mr Magic]

IIRC back in 1964 (our last season at JO) the VFL had a 'season' which ran during winter. Training occurred 'after work' on Tuesdays and Thursdays and games were played on Saturdays.
It wasn't until March? that cricket finished at the JO and the ground was 'handed over' to the Football Club for 'pe-season' training (whatever that was back then?).
The Football Club 'returned the ground to the Cricket Club on October 1 each year.

So I think plugger66 is correct in stating we didn't train 'across the road' back then. It just didn't happen in those days - we shared the ground with the Cricket Club - a tenant of theirs.

[HitTheBoundary]

Heell names: I can guess what that means, just as you do know which clubs I'm refering to.

I agree with P66. I neither know, nor can be bothered making the effort to work out who the hell you are talking about Dave. This type of thing just makes me skip your posts.
Why not just say the bloody name of the club?

The pokies would not be moved to St Kilda!
Would remain at Moorabbin (either get rid of them, or have a very strict policy to make sure no one is losing more than they can afford).

And if you think it is possible to restrict punters from punting by "having a strict policy" then you have obviously never worked in gaming or with gamblers with an addiction.

I don't care where we end up, as long as it's better facilities and allows us to rebuild the club image.

[amusingname]

Last time (In St Kilda): This time we won't be handing most of our takings over to that stupid cricket club. And how will those takings be made and grown? Heaps of ways have already been listed, and we aren't marketing people, so I reckon that any half decent marketing person would have a field day with all the possibilities of marketing the icon St Kilda footy club based in its home community, the icon suburb that is St Kilda. It certainly seems that Matt F 'gets it'.

What are those ways? All I recall being mentioned was a questionable suggestion about incorporating a backpackers and also putting Saints signage on Fitzroy St.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Regardless. There has been a certain disconnect between the Saints supporters and the club since it moved to Seaford.

Look I think the club had to move from Moorabbin. The place was a shamble, falling down and really a piece of crap.

Not being able to get the council to allow us to move up the road with our 83 pokies was a disaster for the club.

Seaford was, at the time a cost efficient option.

Now we have Cricket Australia, and the AFL, cashed up and looking to have the Saints as well as CA at JO.

The new government will come on board, because, well the AFL want the Saints at the JO. And what the AFL want, they usually get.

I am betting we will see the Saints back at the JO at some stage elatively soon.

[The Redeemer]

Regardless. There has been a certain disconnect between the Saints supporters and the club since it moved to Seaford.

Look I think the club had to move from Moorabbin. The place was a shamble, falling down and really a piece of crap.

Not being able to get the council to allow us to move up the road with our 83 pokies was a disaster for the club.

Seaford was, at the time a cost efficient option.

Now we have Cricket Australia, and the AFL, cashed up and looking to have the Saints as well as CA at JO.

The new government will come on board, because, well the AFL want the Saints at the JO. And what the AFL want, they usually get.

I am betting we will see the Saints back at the JO at some stage elatively soon.

I agree but sheesh...spending all that dough on Seaford only to move a couple of years later (regardless of who else is involved?)

From an outsider's perspective, it looks really amateurish

[plugger66]

Regardless. There has been a certain disconnect between the Saints supporters and the club since it moved to Seaford.

Look I think the club had to move from Moorabbin. The place was a shamble, falling down and really a piece of crap.

Not being able to get the council to allow us to move up the road with our 83 pokies was a disaster for the club.

Seaford was, at the time a cost efficient option.

Now we have Cricket Australia, and the AFL, cashed up and looking to have the Saints as well as CA at JO.

The new government will come on board, because, well the AFL want the Saints at the JO. And what the AFL want, they usually get.

I am betting we will see the Saints back at the JO at some stage elatively soon.

Do the AFL really want us at the JO. They do if it guarantees more government money but if it doesn't why would they want us there. What they really want is cricket off the G which is happening. You maybe right, it could happen but TD said yeaterday if it does it will take 2 years longer to get CV off the G so that may also be in the AFL's mind. Also there is the matter of explaining all those wasted facilities at Seaford. It isn't a good look for the government and council to waste all that money.

[White Winmar]

Regardless. There has been a certain disconnect between the Saints supporters and the club since it moved to Seaford.

Look I think the club had to move from Moorabbin. The place was a shamble, falling down and really a piece of crap.

Not being able to get the council to allow us to move up the road with our 83 pokies was a disaster for the club.

Seaford was, at the time a cost efficient option.

Now we have Cricket Australia, and the AFL, cashed up and looking to have the Saints as well as CA at JO.

The new government will come on board, because, well the AFL want the Saints at the JO. And what the AFL want, they usually get.

I am betting we will see the Saints back at the JO at some stage elatively soon.

I agree but sheesh...spending all that dough on Seaford only to move a couple of years later (regardless of who else is involved?)

From an outsider's perspective, it looks really amateurish

That's because from anyone's perspective, it was an amateurish move.

[stinger]

Would remain at Moorabbin (either get rid of them, or have a very strict policy to make sure no one is losing more than they can afford). They only bring in about $2.1 million, which is virually nothing compared with the likes of the Skunks, the Paperbaggers, and the oxymoronically self-proclaimed (is that a word?) 'family club'. I'm also informed that the Hillbillies actually lost money on their Point Cook venue, and are probably going to ditch it.

We can make more money as good community citizens, back in St Kilda, and without the (formerly) one-armed bandits.

enough of the nanny state crap dave......if people are stupid enough to put their money in a machine that is designed to eventually take all their money,...they are fools....pure and simple...and you know what they say about fools and their money

[bergholt]

enough of the nanny state crap dave......if people are stupid enough to put their money in a machine that is designed to eventually take all their money,...they are fools....pure and simple...and you know what they say about fools and their money

Some people are weak. They should be punished for that?

[stinger]

enough of the nanny state crap dave......if people are stupid enough to put their money in a machine that is designed to eventually take all their money,...they are fools....pure and simple...and you know what they say about fools and their money

Some people are weak. They should be punished for that?

what a strange answer.....are you saying that weak people are currently being punished for being weak....?????...how????

[Bernard Shakey]

St Kilda is just a suburb, just like Hawthorn and Collingwood. St Kilda changes nothing, it's still just a suburb where no AFL club plays or trains, just like Hawthorn and Collingwood. The Junction Oval is the home of the St Kilda Cricket Club! History says it should remain so.

[stinger]

St Kilda is just a suburb, just like Hawthorn and Collingwood. St Kilda changes nothing, it's still just a suburb where no AFL club plays or trains, just like Hawthorn and Collingwood. The Junction Oval is the home of the St Kilda Cricket Club! History says it should remain so.

have to agree with you there...however much it pains me....

[The Redeemer]

Regardless. There has been a certain disconnect between the Saints supporters and the club since it moved to Seaford.

Look I think the club had to move from Moorabbin. The place was a shamble, falling down and really a piece of crap.

Not being able to get the council to allow us to move up the road with our 83 pokies was a disaster for the club.

Seaford was, at the time a cost efficient option.

Now we have Cricket Australia, and the AFL, cashed up and looking to have the Saints as well as CA at JO.

The new government will come on board, because, well the AFL want the Saints at the JO. And what the AFL want, they usually get.

I am betting we will see the Saints back at the JO at some stage elatively soon.

I agree but sheesh...spending all that dough on Seaford only to move a couple of years later (regardless of who else is involved?)

From an outsider's perspective, it looks really amateurish

That's because from anyone's perspective, it was an amateurish move.

So these amateurs expect my money re. Membership how?

If Thompson, Burke and co were actually on the Board of a publicly traded business, they would have been pissed off and laughed at years ago...

The question remains, why do we put up with failures continuing to be part of the board?

From within the Industry, if Thompson was actually proficient at what he claims to do through his sub-standard firm, he would not have suitable time to dedicate to a position on the Board of the Saints. The fact that he does have time equals a bloke that is trying to do two jobs at once but is not good enough to do one well

[evertonfc]

There's a distinct divide on here between:

The few - People who feel the club is just a collection of 22 players who go out on game day and it doesn't matter in Melbourne where they play.

The many - People who want to feel part of something that is much more than just a club that wins or loses matches. Its soul, its identity, its traditions, its values and its spirit are worth something.

Figure out where you stand and what you want for St Kilda FC.

We have a history that can power our future. Our name is unique and connects us with an extraordinary part of this city. Our heritage connects us with Moorabbin; a place we love like a home.

It is our duty to have a strong presence in both areas. I'm glad Matt Finnis realises it's something we can leverage for the good of our future.

We need to stop thinking about the next five minutes and start thinking about the next 50 years. I want to have a bulletproof club that respects its history, draws on its idiosyncrasies and powers ahead when others start to dither.

Seaford and Etihad Stadium, unintentionally, have turned us into a cookie-cutter club. It's time to be ourselves again. That's what makes the Saints...the Saints.

[plugger66]

There's a distinct divide on here between:

The few - People who feel the club is just a collection of 22 players who go out on game day and it doesn't matter in Melbourne where they play.

The many - People who want to feel part of something that is much more than just a club that wins or loses matches. Its soul, its identity, its traditions, its values and its spirit are worth something.

Figure out where you stand and what you want for St Kilda FC.

We have a history that can power our future. Our name is unique and connects us with an extraordinary part of this city. Our heritage connects us with Moorabbin; a place we love like a home.

It is our duty to have a strong presence in both areas. I'm glad Matt Finnis realises it's something we can leverage for the good of our future.

We need to stop thinking about the next five minutes and start thinking about the next 50 years. I want to have a bulletproof club that respects its history, draws on its idiosyncrasies and powers ahead when others start to dither.

Seaford and Etihad Stadium, unintentionally, have turned us into a cookie-cutter club. It's time to be ourselves again. That's what makes the Saints...the Saints.

Everton this is about training not playing. We play at Etihad. It isn't like the last time we were at the JO where we did play there. 100 people attend training so don't pretend it will matter where we train to get our soul back. If that was the case our soul would have been stuffed when we played and trained at Moorabbin but I don't believe it was at all. There are very good reasons not to go to the JO especially if CV have the first say on most things. Also im sure it will again cost us something and what happens to those wasted facilities at Seaford. I actually don't care where we train but we do need great facilities and we do need full control over those. If that's in St Kilda all well and good but if its in Moorabbin or Seaford still all well and good.

[karnak]

Great post Everton entirely agree.

On Saints.com.au the latest Radio link with Roo and Monty have Roo giving a great plug for the JO.

[bergholt]

enough of the nanny state crap dave......if people are stupid enough to put their money in a machine that is designed to eventually take all their money,...they are fools....pure and simple...and you know what they say about fools and their money

Some people are weak. They should be punished for that?

what a strange answer.....are you saying that weak people are currently being punished for being weak....?????...how????

People don't choose to get addicted to pokies. It happens because of a weakness in their personality and they get punished for that, in some cases by losing everything. Shouldn't society help protect them from that?

[Dave McNamara]

enough of the nanny state crap dave......if people are stupid enough to put their money in a machine that is designed to eventually take all their money,...they are fools....pure and simple...and you know what they say about fools and their money

Some people are weak. They should be punished for that?

what a strange answer.....are you saying that weak people are currently being punished for being weak....?????...how????

People don't choose to get addicted to pokies. It happens because of a weakness in their personality and they get punished for that, in some cases by losing everything. Shouldn't society help protect them from that?

I'm with ya Bergs'.

More and more evidence that it's a mental health condition... a bit like how it took a while for alcoholism or Kentucky Fried rat meat consumption to finally be accepted as being a medical condition.

A lack of self-control is one of the main problems for compulsive gamblers. These people are often mocked for not being able to stop while the going is good.

But now a sensational new study, published in the journal PNAS, suggests that a compulsive gambler’s lack of self-control may actually be caused by deviations in the brain.

“We have shown that people who suffer from compulsive gambling have less self-control than healthy people, and that this is related to changes in the brain,” says Kristine Rømer Thomsen, who took part in the study as a PhD student at Aarhus University’s Center of Functionally Integrative Neuroscience.

http://sciencenordic.com/gambling-addic ... tted-brain

Pathological gambling usually begins in early adolescence in men, and between ages 20 and 40 in women.

Pathological gambling often involves repetitive behaviors. People with this problem have a hard time resisting or controlling the impulse to gamble. Although it shares features of obsessive compulsive disorder, pathological gambling is likely a different condition...

Like alcohol or drug addiction, pathological gambling is a long-term disorder that tends to get worse without treatment. Even with treatment, it's common to start gambling again (relapse). However, people with pathological gambling can do very well with the right treatment.

http://www.nytimes.com/health/guides/di ... rview.html

So I'd argue, it's not a case of the nanny state, but the caring for our most vulnerable state.

[Dave McNamara]

... so with the above in mind, no way should we have pokies as part of our return home to funky town St Kilda!

We want to be a contributer to our community, not a predator!

(Yep, not a predator like that so-called 'family club'. )

Our beloved club has a fantastic name amongst the St Kilda-based aid agencies... in particular the Sacred Heart Mission, where there's been a great relationship for many years now. We want to further build on that kind of thing, to make sure that our club becomes an entrenched part of the St Kilda community. Good-will is priceless... from a 'business' POV, and also from a moral POV. (Win-win.)

So for example, and picking the 'right' game/s, for an interstate game... big screen set-up in the middle of JO. Local welfare, community, school, sporting, whatever groups could set-up stalls selling food and drink, pictures infront of the grandstands with Pluggs (I wrote Pluggs, coz they'll be having a great time, and everyone will be mates ), BBQ'g snags, whatever. Gold coin donation opportunity to get in. Proceeds to those local groups.

Maybe take it a step further, and show a couple of movies afterwards...?
And/or have a band rockin the social club (think how the St Kilda bowlo turned itself around after facing oblivion)...?
I'm sure our creative types could come up with heaps more ideas. And of course, invite the media, local and not-so-local.

Sky's the limit Saintas!

And hey, we might just sell a few memberships on the day... Win-win.

Certainly any tourists, local or foreign will be able to make a favourable connection with us. They'll remember that experience, the word will be spread, and gradually, from little things, big things can be grown.

Sky's the limit Saintas!

[Dave McNamara]

... as for our current Moorabbin pokies.

Going back to the problems of pathological gambling addiction amongst some, and the damage that causes to them and their broader community,
either ditch those pokies totally,

or, I can see our P66's pragmatic point re how people will lose money on pokies anyway...
so keep the pokies, but if so, I'm sure we could have in place a rigorous protocol, to monitor and make sure that no one loses more than they can afford on our machines.


So we could still make some money, but in the process... do no harm. Win-win.

[HitTheBoundary]

so keep the pokies, but if so, I'm sure we could have in place a rigorous protocol, to monitor and make sure that no one loses more than they can afford on our machines.

Dave, can you please outline this protocol, rather than keep suggesting vague motherhood statements, or just accept that pokies are a fact. Like drinking, drugs, etc.
Or better still, start a thread in the politics section so as not to derail this one.

And as someone who worked in the gaming industry for many years, fyi, these things are well meaning but virtually impossible to implement.

[evertonfc]

100 people attend training so don't pretend it will matter where we train to get our soul back.

There's so much more to a club than just training sessions.

I'm not going to Seaford to watch interstate games. I'm not going to Seaford if the club runs member-only functions. I'm not going to Seaford to buy my merchandise. I'm not going to Seaford to have a meal on Thursday night after training.

Heck, I'm probably not even going to Seaford on the Thursday night before the Grand Final.

Why? It's not home. It means nothing to me. It has nothing to do with our club, our history, and most likely, our future. And none of us like it - players, staff, fans, administrators.

So don't we build a place that feels like home, that we can call our own, where we all can congregate?

Enough dallying around in circles. Let's get on with reconnecting with what matters to us as a club. The team and the club are two different things, something I can't stress highly enough.

[plugger66]

100 people attend training so don't pretend it will matter where we train to get our soul back.

There's so much more to a club than just training session and who goes.

I'm not going to Seaford to watch interstate games. I'm not going to Seaford if the club runs member-only functions. I'm not going to Seaford to buy my merchandise. I'm not going to Seaford to have a meal on Thursday night after training.

Heck, I'm probably not even going to Seaford on the Thursday night before the Grand Final.

Why? It's not home. It means nothing to me. It has nothing to do with our club, our history, and most likely, our future. And none of us like it - players, staff, fans, administrators.

So let's get on with reconnecting with what matters to us as a club. The team and the club are two different things, something I can't stress highly enough.

That is just you though. I don't think you can go to Seaford to do any of that anyway but I would easily say the same about the JO. I will never go there to do anything you suggested apart from before a GF which I would do if we trained at Geelong. And how do you know you will be able to do all that at JO. I know the club want that sort of stuff but at the moment we aren't even going to be part of the plan let alone have other facilities there but if we do it would be great just as it would be great for those close to Seaford or Moorabbin if we had those facilities there.