McCartin

[brewski]

If we take mc cartin we are melbournes bitch , and a laughing stock of the afl, we kept pick 1 to get Petracca

[minneapolis]

It's obvious its McCartin.

1. See what Richo said a few hours ago abut the cost of full-forwards. That's the Saints war room logic right there.
2. The Saints gain nothing by releasing false rumours. Not worth their breathe. No tactical advantage gained.
3. The leak is on purpose to get everybody used to the idea and lessen the outrage.


I am not happy. I would rather have a Michael Voss like midfielder that a short flawed middle of the road one position player.


Seems like they out-thought themselves.

Bummed badly.

[Devilhead]

McCartin outside 50m... do you mean in HTB's link above? If so, I saw that. But what wasn't shown was how he got that shot on goal. Show me some pack marks against big players. Hey, show me some pack marks...

I'm still waiting for the McCartin fans to address the concerns I've raised. I'm very worried that I may have to go onto Doc S's Bex prescription.
U
McCartin at only 193cm is very unlikely to be able to successfully make the transition from not taking pack marks against kids... to taking them against AFL sized men.

Sorry Dave but you are coming across like an A grade dunderhead re: your bagging of McCartin - obviously you missed my post below earlier in the thread

Does McCartin have any more growing to do??

He is currently listed as being 193/194cm - is it possible that he may grow another 3 cm??

Listed below are some forwards currently playing (with Height)

Kurt Tippet - 203cm
Joe Daniher - 201cm
Tom Lynch - 199cm (GC)
Justin Westhoff - 199cm
Tom Hawkins - 197cm
Drew Petrie - 197cm
Buddy Franklin - 196cm
Travis Cloke - 196cm
Josh Kennedy - 196cm
Jack Riewoldt - 195cm
Jesse Hogan - 195cm
Taylor Walker - 194cm
Jarred Waite - 194cm
Nick Riewoldt - 193cm
Jay Schulz - 193cm
Jarryd Roughead - 193cm
Jack Gunston - 193cm
Matthew Pavlich - 192cm
Jack Darling - 191cm

and now a list of legendary retired forwards

Larry Donahue - 196cm
Jonathan Brown - 195cm
Fraser Gehrig - 195cm
Simon Beasley - 195cm
Barry Hall - 194cm
Stewie Loewe - 194cm
John Longmire - 194cm
Scott Cummings - 194cm
Bernie Quinlan - 193cm
Michael Roach - 193cm
David Nietz - 193cm
Wayne Carey - 192cm
Matthew Lloyd - 192cm
Mark "Jacko" Jackson - 192cm
Tony Lockett - 191cm
Brendan Fevola - 191cm
Brian Taylor - 191cm
Kelvin Templeton - 191cm
Peter McKenna - 191cm
Peter Husdon - 189cm
Tony Modra - 188cm
Jason Dunstall - 188cm
Doug Wade - 188cm
Gary Ablett Snr - 185cm (Freak)

As you can see McCartin would sit somewhere in the middle in terms of height - so he is already an impressive size (a beast) for an 18 year old

In TAC Cup 2013 (as an underager)

- he kicked 21.14 from 8 games (incl. a bag of 7 goals)
- he took 68 marks (avg - 8.5 per game) of which 19 were contested (avg - 2.4 per game)

In 2014

- he kicked 20.14 from 5 games (incl. a bag of 6)
- he took 40 marks (avg - 8 per game) of which 15 were contested (avg - 3 per game)

Looking at those heights - at 193cm playing today are Roughead, Schulz, Gunston Riewoldt and Pav who all kick multiple goals as forwards - that said McCartin is 18 years old and likely to grow further

As for the pack/contested mark thingy you are incessantly harping on about the kid averaged 3 contested marks a game this year and 2.4 a game as a underager last year

The contested mark leader this year in the AFL averaged 2.3 per game - Hawkins, Franklin and McGovern

So much for your crapola saying he doesnt take pack/contested marks

You should maybe do some research and think before you type because you are coming across as someone that has absolute no friggin idea

FWIW i would like to see us take Petracca but if we took McCartin I would not carry on like a twat- either way we will get a good player and hopefully a great player - both have fantastic potential and both fill needs

[gringo]

The problem I see for Paddy is his height. He is small at 194cm and will struggle against taller defenders IMO.

Riewoldt is 194. Roughead 193. Hogan, who would certainly go #1 this year and looks a monster is 194.

His height is perfect for the role he'll play.

You aren't wrong but Rooey isn't a contested marking forward who uses height and weight to protect the drop zone. Rooey runs and marks out in front. Roughy is much more athletic than he looks, Paddy is more your old school out muscle style forward. That is the danger in him not making it. Fev was pretty small and went okay I guess. We are amassing a funny assortment of forwards at the moment. Lee and Spencer are slippery forwards that play smaller than they are, Members is small but plays tall, Paddy is probably in a similar boat to members then we have Markworth and Siposs as unknown quantities. We could have two undersized KPFs and two very oversized small forwards and some middle-sized wingers.

I think most have said he is your lead up forward type. McCartin is not undersized. Maybe the other talls are oversized because apart from Buddy who plays small most of the real tall forwards haven't proven anything yet.

The footage I watched of him he held his ground rather than being the athletic runner that Riewoldt is. Jarred Roughhead holds his ground more but has an impressive leap and can peel off as well as out muscling his man. Paddy might adapt better than I imagine but he doesn't have the explosiveness of some of the better forwards or Riewoldts endurance and speed. He reminds me of Fev with out the precision kicking. Best case he's the next Tex Walker IMO. Petracca is more of a safe bet.

[Gershwin]

The problem I see for Paddy is his height. He is small at 194cm and will struggle against taller defenders IMO.

Riewoldt is 194. Roughead 193. Hogan, who would certainly go #1 this year and looks a monster is 194.

His height is perfect for the role he'll play.

You aren't wrong but Rooey isn't a contested marking forward who uses height and weight to protect the drop zone. Rooey runs and marks out in front. Roughy is much more athletic than he looks, Paddy is more your old school out muscle style forward. That is the danger in him not making it. Fev was pretty small and went okay I guess. We are amassing a funny assortment of forwards at the moment. Lee and Spencer are slippery forwards that play smaller than they are, Members is small but plays tall, Paddy is probably in a similar boat to members then we have Markworth and Siposs as unknown quantities. We could have two undersized KPFs and two very oversized small forwards and some middle-sized wingers.

I think most have said he is your lead up forward type. McCartin is not undersized. Maybe the other talls are oversized because apart from Buddy who plays small most of the real tall forwards haven't proven anything yet.

The footage I watched of him he held his ground rather than being the athletic runner that Riewoldt is. Jarred Roughhead holds his ground more but has an impressive leap and can peel off as well as out muscling his man. Paddy might adapt better than I imagine but he doesn't have the explosiveness of some of the better forwards or Riewoldts endurance and speed. He reminds me of Fev with out the precision kicking. Best case he's the next Tex Walker IMO. Petracca is more of a safe bet.

He is only 18. He will train hard, get fitter, improve his skills and will get even better. Petracca got a personal trainer this year and improved incredibly. Our Development Academy plus Rooey will see McCartin get the best out of himself. He was injured half of 2014 and looked to be carrying weight.

[damienc]

Let me say from the beginning. I am shocked. Deeply shocked. I was so shocked I couldn't sleep properly last night.

Call it intuition, sixth sense, hell you can call it what you damn well like, but we are taking McCartin with pick 1.

There I have said it.

What evidence do I have to prove this? Circumstantial.

But, where there's smoke, there is usually fire.

It began for me when I read Calumn Twomey's Phantom Draft. it had McCartin at 1. I thought Calumn, your sticking your neck out here. But he had definitely startled the horses as far I was concerned.

Then Emma Quayle published her list. She had McCartin at 1 as well. Then Big Footy's Nightmare had suddenly changed his draft list at the 11th hour. He had McCartin at 1.

Now, when three people who know something of the draft, who study it all year, who have good footy contacts all have Paddy McCartin going to the Saints at 1, they are not speculating. They know stuff we don't. They have mail on this.

Ok.

The next big question is why?

Why would the Saints pass up on a once-in-a-generation player like Petracca?

He has everything we need in spades. He wins inside ball, he can play in the midfield or forward, he has the right attitude and is determined to succeed.

Other clubs have players like him. But we do not.

So it's insane not to take him right?

Well consider this.

I think we were taking Petracca right up until the moment the club was blindsided and broadsided by the dishlickers.

I knew we were interested in Boyd but I think now we were more than just interested.

I think we intended to make a big powerplay for him at the end of 2015 when his contract expired. A big, big, money offer. And I think we were confident of getting him.

And then the doggies imploded.

They sacked their coach sent their captain and best player to the Giants but in a move no one expected or anticipated especially St kilda they offered Boyd a million bucks and the Giants and the player went for the deal.

That was the surprise. That was the shock and awe.

No question Boyd wanted to come back to Melbourne but equally no one thought the Giants would let him go before his contract had expired.

Guess what?

They were wrong.

And why would we be so interested in Boyd?

The answer is one word: Rooey.

Our star, all Australian centre half forward has one maybe two years at best left in his career. We need a replacement, simple as that, who is just as good.

The Saints thought they had it in Boyd.

But we missed out.

So apparently the next best thing is Paddy McCartin. If you look at some very recent publicity quoting Richo and Bains. Replacing Nick has bothered them. They know if they can't get anyone like him as a raw kid then they are going to have to spend millions getting an established star.

Now i don't want to sound like I am a critic of McCartin.

I am not.

He is a fine young man and a talented, big marking forward.

But is he Nick R? Sorry but I don't think so.

Will he ever be as good as Nick R? Sorry but I don't think so.

I should also add. I am more than happy to be proved wrong.

The thing is, all of this has made me nervous (again) about our future.

I am nervous about our coaches and administrators.

This is not a good decision. This is a mistake.

And I am going to wake tomorrow and the day after that, and the day after that etc, etc, still nervous.

I am also sorry to say that I think we are going to regret not picking Petracca.

Paul Roos must be thinking Xmas has come early.

[SaintPav]

Get a grip. If this keeps you up at night, you are a lucky person.

[plugger66]

Dave, I assume you've never seen him play?

"McCartin has more than one way to find the ball and kick goals, he is an exceptional grab who has impressed with the intelligent leading patterns he runs as a forward. He is more than just a goal-square forward – he can play centre half-forward and get up and down the ground."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/trading-an ... 1u8bh.html

Uhmmmm..., HTB, that link was just Emma Q and one sentence saying that maybe if he got fitter he could maybe get up the ground. I must have missed the CHF bit(?) Everything I've read (and plenty of others on here have also quoted the same) says that he's one position only, and get his marks and goals on the lead.

And seems he's shrinking... only 193cm now... isn't that Tom Simpkin's height?

Lots of blokes look good in the junior levels. Picking who is good at that level is not only easy, it's obvious. IMHO, the recruiters' art is determining who will be able to successfully transition to being able to showcase their tricks against the big boys in the AFL.

One obvious one would be a clear lack of the necessary work ethic. Another is if a bloke is simply too slight... that is what stops Tezza being a star. But for many many others it's a real challenge, and often a lottery, to try and work it out. Hence, the recruiters 'art'.

Now, looking at McCartin and his clear 'red warning light' shortcomings, I just can't see how he can successfully transition to senior AFL footy. And this just seems sooooooo obvious.

Whereas every write-up and recruiter (including in your link) goes for Petracca as the best in the draft.

Plus, he also kicks goals. Remembering, he starred as an underage player in the U18s, as a strong marking key forward, before upping his endurance, moving into the mid field... and domininating again.

I just don't get how there could be any hesitation re Petracca over McCartin.


And remember, other clubs were keen to offer up plenty for our No 1 pick... does anyone think that was to get their hands on McCartin... anyone...?

Isnt that Rooy and Rougheads height. What the the point of whinging when lets face it you have no knowledge of either player and you know that is fact Dave. Also your whinging and untruths wont change who we will pick. Is it because you went so far over the top with Petracca love that you are no embarrassed and saying untrue things? Everyone has McCartin one or two but you seem to know better when that isn't true again. Stop it dave or you will have a heart attack.

[Dr Spaceman]

Agree Pav.

This is my 42nd consecutive year as a paid up member and I've yet to see us win a flag. So I've got as much invested in all this as anyone.

At the end of the day it's one player vs another player. We may get it right; we may get it wrong. They may both end up equals and it doesn't matter.

But chill out. It is just a game. A bloody great game, but a game nonetheless.






If all else fails try a hot chocolate just before going to bed

[plugger66]

The problem I see for Paddy is his height. He is small at 194cm and will struggle against taller defenders IMO.

Riewoldt is 194. Roughead 193. Hogan, who would certainly go #1 this year and looks a monster is 194.

His height is perfect for the role he'll play.

You aren't wrong but Rooey isn't a contested marking forward who uses height and weight to protect the drop zone. Rooey runs and marks out in front. Roughy is much more athletic than he looks, Paddy is more your old school out muscle style forward. That is the danger in him not making it. Fev was pretty small and went okay I guess. We are amassing a funny assortment of forwards at the moment. Lee and Spencer are slippery forwards that play smaller than they are, Members is small but plays tall, Paddy is probably in a similar boat to members then we have Markworth and Siposs as unknown quantities. We could have two undersized KPFs and two very oversized small forwards and some middle-sized wingers.

I think most have said he is your lead up forward type. McCartin is not undersized. Maybe the other talls are oversized because apart from Buddy who plays small most of the real tall forwards haven't proven anything yet.

The footage I watched of him he held his ground rather than being the athletic runner that Riewoldt is. Jarred Roughhead holds his ground more but has an impressive leap and can peel off as well as out muscling his man. Paddy might adapt better than I imagine but he doesn't have the explosiveness of some of the better forwards or Riewoldts endurance and speed. He reminds me of Fev with out the precision kicking. Best case he's the next Tex Walker IMO. Petracca is more of a safe bet.

I think this sums up most here. The footage I saw. Luckily our recruiters would have seen both players live probably more than 20 times. McCartin is not undersized compared to the best forwards. Myth.

[Old Mate]

Get a grip. If this keeps you up at night, you are a lucky person.

Bloody oath. I cannot believe some people on here. It's sickening.

[Old Mate]

Paddy McCartin's official height from the combine is 193.6cm and you'll notice he is now recorded at 194cm (rounded up from his official height). His growth is close to 2cm over the past 12 months (recruiters look at growth) and he will continue to grow for the next few years. By the time he's 21 I would be surprised if he were not a 196cm tall forward and that with his natural large frame will be a very difficult proposition for defenders.

[Wrote for Luck]

I am a CP fan but imagine having a natural power forward inside our fifty?
A power forward who is a brute, strong hands, a dead eye dick of a kick, and a natural on a lead? (a far cry from Rhys Stanley)
From what I've seen his runs are indeed Tony Locket similar, which makes life sweet for our midfield, and makes for beautiful viewing.
Billings to McCartin!

[Dr Spaceman]

McCartin is not undersized compared to the best forwards. Myth.

People are reacting to the recent "spate" of 200cm forwards such as Patton, Boyd & Daniher. Highlighted by their high draft rankings.

Boyd's recent mega deal, along with the previous Tippet mega deal, adds to the perception of what a key forward needs to be.

However time for a reality check.

There are 18 teams in the competition.

Good luck finding 36 200cm blokes who can play as key forwards at an elite level.

[Jimmy O'Dea]

It's obvious its McCartin.

1. See what Richo said a few hours ago abut the cost of full-forwards. That's the Saints war room logic right there.
2. The Saints gain nothing by releasing false rumours. Not worth their breathe. No tactical advantage gained.
3. The leak is on purpose to get everybody used to the idea and lessen the outrage.


I am not happy. I would rather have a Michael Voss like midfielder that a short flawed middle of the road one position player.


Seems like they out-thought themselves.

Bummed badly.

You are a fool for making such ill informed comments

[ace]

The media are convinced we are taking McCartin.

I just can't understand why you would take a type 1 diabetic who has to test his blood sugar at every break and comes to the bench in the middle of each quarter to test his blood sugar.
Diabetes means your cells are not absorbing energy from your blood stream efficiently.
Insulin injections can help but they are that, a help.
Insulin does not make your muscle cells absorb energy like Nick Riewoldt.

McCartin is able to play to a level that indicates he is worthy of a No1 draft pick but that level is not even worthy of an AFL game.
The player has to keep getting better to make it into the AFL and then again to become elite.
I just can't see McCartin ever being so good that he can be elite despite the diabetes.
Just how good would he be without the diabetes.
Would be far better the Tony Lockett in his prime.
It certainly would be great to once again go to games to see if our full forward was going kick 10 or more for the game.

I fear we will be shaking our heads like Melbourne supporters disappointed that Jack Watts turned out to be a GOP.

[Jimmy O'Dea]

I know it's a long shot but has any on here actually seen Petracca or McCartin play a game live?

I have seen McCartin play around 15 times live and Petracca play 10 times (games at both 2013 and 2014 national champs)

McCartin strengths
Great hands
Kicks goals week in week out. One of those guys who will consistently kick 50 goals year in year out.
Strong
Smashes packs and will hurt you if you stand in his way
Competitive
Great team player and all say he is ripping guy
Best underage player in 2013 by a long way
Any concerns ?
Get fitter due to injuries in 2014
Agility to be an elite forward instead of a good AFL forward
May take a year or two to get his body big enough to consistently hold down no 1 key forward role, like many big guys

Petracca strenghts
When he is on he has proven to be unstoppable as a mid size forward. His big games as a forward are awesome
Deadly around goal
Powerful, good speed and best of all is a goal kicker
Good hands
Stronger than his under 18 opposition
Self confidence which comes through in his game
Any concerns
Not yet at Brayshaw level as a genuine fully fledged mid but on his way given all his attributes and how much he has come on in the midfield in 2014. May be a good AFL mid but elite?
Not aggressive like a Voss or a Selwood but they are few and far bewteen.

I would hate to be Tony Elshaugh this year with the number one selection. Much easier being Melbourne as you get Brayshaw who is a star and another gun.

[HitTheBoundary]

I know it's a long shot but has any on here actually seen Petracca or McCartin play a game live?

I have seen McCartin play around 15 times live and Petracca play 10 times (games at both 2013 and 2014 national champs)

McCartin strengths
Great hands
Kicks goals week in week out. One of those guys who will consistently kick 50 goals year in year out.
Strong
Smashes packs and will hurt you if you stand in his way
Competitive
Great team player and all say he is ripping guy
Best underage player in 2013 by a long way
Any concerns ?
Get fitter due to injuries in 2014
Agility to be an elite forward instead of a good AFL forward
May take a year or two to get his body big enough to consistently hold down no 1 key forward role, like many big guys

Petracca strenghts
When he is on he has proven to be unstoppable as a mid size forward. His big games as a forward are awesome
Deadly around goal
Powerful, good speed and best of all is a goal kicker
Good hands
Stronger than his under 18 opposition
Self confidence which comes through in his game
Any concerns
Not yet at Brayshaw level as a genuine fully fledged mid but on his way given all his attributes and how much he has come on in the midfield in 2014. May be a good AFL mid but elite?
Not aggressive like a Voss or a Selwood but they are few and far bewteen.

I would hate to be Tony Elshaugh this year with the number one selection. Much easier being Melbourne as you get Brayshaw who is a star and another gun.

Great post. Thanks for the info.

Out of interest, how come you see saw so many games?

[Verdun66]

Thanks Jimmy. Top post.

[Teflon]

It's obvious its McCartin.

1. See what Richo said a few hours ago abut the cost of full-forwards. That's the Saints war room logic right there.
2. The Saints gain nothing by releasing false rumours. Not worth their breathe. No tactical advantage gained.
3. The leak is on purpose to get everybody used to the idea and lessen the outrage.


I am not happy. I would rather have a Michael Voss like midfielder that a short flawed middle of the road one position player.


Seems like they out-thought themselves.

Bummed badly.

Agreed

[spert]

Handy dilemma for the club to be in..I would be leaning to aggressive goal kicking midfielders, I also felt even back on 09 and 10 when we were contesting the GFs, we really lacked an aggressive X-factor player.. a power half forward who could take on the opposition while the key forwards were getting all the attention. Maybe Petracca is a better long term pick, rather than a McCartin standing in the forward line waiting for the ball to get there.??

[Jimmy O'Dea]

I know it's a long shot but has any on here actually seen Petracca or McCartin play a game live?

I have seen McCartin play around 15 times live and Petracca play 10 times (games at both 2013 and 2014 national champs)

McCartin strengths
Great hands
Kicks goals week in week out. One of those guys who will consistently kick 50 goals year in year out.
Strong
Smashes packs and will hurt you if you stand in his way
Competitive
Great team player and all say he is ripping guy
Best underage player in 2013 by a long way
Any concerns ?
Get fitter due to injuries in 2014
Agility to be an elite forward instead of a good AFL forward
May take a year or two to get his body big enough to consistently hold down no 1 key forward role, like many big guys

Petracca strenghts
When he is on he has proven to be unstoppable as a mid size forward. His big games as a forward are awesome
Deadly around goal
Powerful, good speed and best of all is a goal kicker
Good hands
Stronger than his under 18 opposition
Self confidence which comes through in his game
Any concerns
Not yet at Brayshaw level as a genuine fully fledged mid but on his way given all his attributes and how much he has come on in the midfield in 2014. May be a good AFL mid but elite?
Not aggressive like a Voss or a Selwood but they are few and far bewteen.

I would hate to be Tony Elshaugh this year with the number one selection. Much easier being Melbourne as you get Brayshaw who is a star and another gun.

Great post. Thanks for the info.

Out of interest, how come you see saw so many games?

I have a bit to do with the kids at this level

[SainterK]

Is it true the draft is light on for forwards next year?

my concern, highly rated forwards statistically don't pan out to well when taken in the top 10, whereas mids are a much safer bet.

[dragit]

Handy dilemma for the club to be in..I would be leaning to aggressive goal kicking midfielders, I also felt even back on 09 and 10 when we were contesting the GFs, we really lacked an aggressive X-factor player.. a power half forward who could take on the opposition while the key forwards were getting all the attention. Maybe Petracca is a better long term pick, rather than a McCartin standing in the forward line waiting for the ball to get there.??

Agree, the way the game is played now, I would probably prefer a Dustin Martin or Wines over a Tom Hawkins…

Can't remember too many power forwards dominating in a recent GF… the mids are usually the difference in the end.

Of course you do need key forward from somewhere, but I do like the Port approach at the moment, swarming goal-kicking mids plus some hard working key forwards like Shultz & Westoff.

Let's hope McCartin is the gun we are banking on.

[Bunk_Moreland]

1. See what Richo said a few hours ago abut the cost of full-forwards. That's the Saints war room logic right there.

Isn't the flaw in this logic that is if McCartin is any good he can not renew after two years and go to a club with a lazy mill a year to offer him?

I think it is not a thought through argument. We put two year into McCartin, WCE for example offer him a mill for 7 years, we cant match it, they pick him up as a DFA.

We are again down on a quality FF and don't have Petracca either.

I don't buy it.