McCartin

[Verdun66]

Yep, well said Boneless....

[Doctor Two]

I have got no idea whether the club would/should take Petracca or McCartin. I trust the recruiters to get things right. But surely who we pick is also dependent on what is available in 2015.

Any predictions of what the top end talent next year is like - better talls or mids

[Dr Spaceman]

I have got no idea whether the club would/should take Petracca or McCartin. I trust the recruiters to get things right. But surely who we pick is also dependent on what is available in 2015.

Any predictions of what the top end talent next year is like - better talls or mids

Have no first hand knowledge but what I'm reading strongly suggests high on quality mids and low on quality talls.

Makes a Paddy selection quite sound IMO.

[Dave McNamara]

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-11-2 ... first-pick






Richardson said while the decision for pick 1 was driven by factors such as character and values, ultimately it came down to who the club believed is the best player."

Surely it's Petracca then

the coach also said this...


""If we go for the best player and we think Petracca is in front, we’re going to have to pay a million plus to get the forward we need. The market is saying that now. So let's get one in now and get him to fall in love with our footy club."


so fiik

What BS reasoning!

Oh, and McCartin is not going to be a ten year forward anyway.

He's only what, 194cm, with key posi' players getting bigger each year, he's already small.

Crash packs... huh... packs of kids... and yet doesn't take pack marks... against kids? How's he going to get his goals? When he can't kick goals, where else can he play in this age of versatility...?

Seriously, what do people seriously see in McCartin, other than flashing red lights and blaring sirens warning of impending doom???


Petracca will kick more goals than McCartin... in 2015, and throughout his career.

McCartin will stuggle to make the grade at all... let alone be a star.

Whereas Petracca is almost guaranteed to be a star, and a bloody good chance to be one of the all time greats!

I really hope this is all just the media having a bit of fun, coz if not, we are going to regret it for as long as Petracca plays.

McCartin at No 1??? Move over Jack Watts.

[Con Gorozidis]

Hard to know what will be there in 2015 but odds are that even if we finish as high as 3rd bottom a good mid will be available.

If we just look at last year - Kelly, Bont and Aish are all genuine bona fide mids and noone would be unhappy if u had one of those.
Is Petracca miles ahead of those three? Probably not.

We also might throw something at Shiel next year. Edi As kid. Would be up our alley.

[Con Gorozidis]

If you go on who performs on the big stage on the last saturday in september, I cannot remember a Full Forward who won a Norm Smith medal, I think James Hird at CHF won one in 2000.

I think it has predominantly won by midfielders/flankers who have the X factor and can turn the game when it is required.

Sadly think back to 2009, Ablett the benefactor of toe poke, Chapman goals, to Cats, 2010 Lenny and BJ play their heart out and an unlucky draw.

I guess moral to the story.....Get the midfielder get Petracca.

Surely Tomahawk won the Cats that game in 2011?
And Roughie was dominant last year.
Roo got us in the GF in 09 against the Dogs.

[LTN16]

I have been watching everything I can find on McCartin and he looks bloody good!!

He can read the ball well in flight, can beat his man on the lead, can take a strong mark and can kick goals from outside 50.

Bains and Trout want this draft to work more than any of us as their reputation and livelihood is on the line so I am sure that if Paddy's name is called tomorrow night then the decision would have been based on the best information available.

From all of the interviews I have watched Paddy seems like a really decent kid so as soon as his name is called, if it is of course, we need to forget about Petracca and get right behind our future full forward.

I have no doubt that Paddy is reading all of the posts and it would be a terrible feeling for a kid to get drafted to a club and then read post after posts from it's supporters saying they don't want him.

Yes Paddy could be the next Jack Watts but he also could be the next Jarryd Roughhead. Similarly Petracca could be the next Patrick Dangerfield or the next Jimmy Toumpas or Tom Scully!

Finally someone is talking some sence! Great post couldn't agree more!

[Verdun66]

I have got no idea whether the club would/should take Petracca or McCartin. I trust the recruiters to get things right. But surely who we pick is also dependent on what is available in 2015.

Any predictions of what the top end talent next year is like - better talls or mids

Mids dominate the next two drafts. No key forwards on the horizon. Join the dots.

Despite the Petracca hysteria, I gather the mids in up coming drafts are elite. There are better qualified than me to comment further, but I read a lot of this stuff, and we are in line for a top boy next year. And we probably don't have to come last to get him!

[Dr Spaceman]

What BS reasoning!

Oh, and McCartin is not going to be a ten year forward anyway.

He's only what, 194cm, with key posi' players getting bigger each year, he's already small.

Crash packs... huh... packs of kids... and yet doesn't take pack marks... against kids? How's he going to get his goals? When he can't kick goals, where else can he play in this age of versatility...?

Seriously, what do people seriously see in McCartin, other than flashing red lights and blaring sirens warning of impending doom???


Petracca will kick more goals than McCartin... in 2015, and throughout his career.

McCartin will stuggle to make the grade at all... let alone be a star.

Whereas Petracca is almost guaranteed to be a star, and a bloody good chance to be one of the all time greats!

I really hope this is all just the media having a bit of fun, coz if not, we are going to regret it for as long as Petracca plays.

McCartin at No 1??? Move over Jack Watts.

Dave seriously you have totally lost the plot.

Your love of this Petracca fella has totally blinded you to reality.

Please find one expert, one person who follows under age football, who agrees with your comments, including your previous remark that you wouldn't even rookie list Paddy.

Or at least take a Bex and lie down

[Verdun66]

Thanks Doc. Was about to post something similar but my head was hurting.

We could still go either way. And to think I actually really want Angus Brayshaw at our club!

All the experts are split right down the middle. A couple of late drafts have Petracca drifting out to 5, but I don't actually believe that.

Who we get at 21,22 is of greater importance, because at Number 1 we will get a very good player.

All year the experts have been saying that there is really no stand out number 1 in this particular draft. McCartin has always been in the frame, Petracca has come in over the last few months. Win/win.

[Dave McNamara]

Or at least take a Bex and lie down

Bex has been withdrwan from sale Doc... wrecks kidneys... but you knew that.


So Doc, maybe you could answer a few of my concerns for me, you know, set me at ease.

- Why in the modern game would anyone pick a player who can only play one position (and it ain't ruck)? That's an immediate big black texta line right there.

- The write ups mention crashing packs (again, of school kids), but also mention that he doesn't actually take pack marks, but gets his marks on the lead.
In the modern ultra defensive uber flooding game, how is McCartin going to consistently find forward line space often enough?

This bloke's game is clearly fatally flawed. I just can't see how he can successfully make the transition to senior footy. And not one post nor article that I've read has addressed these points!

In contrast...

Petracca will be a star, and probably better.
Petracca will kick more goals than McCartin.
Multi pronged attacks with multiple marking options, further boosted by on ballers who can also rest up forward and take contested marks, are the go now... see the 2014 premiers, see Port Adelaide who almost displaced said 2014 premiers from the GF...



So come on all you Paddy fans, please address my concerns so I can rest easy and not wreck my kidneys.

[Con Gorozidis]

You know my old saying.

When two players are equal - choose the country kid

Also Paddy isnt a picture of fitness or an adonis - so maybe the recruiters think he has much more upside. Looks like your classic country footy player. But a few years in an AFL system and they might think they can really get him up.

I dont think the Pet man is even the best mid in this draft. Heeney just looks like hes going to be a star.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-02/w ... -late-goal

I still would have liked to see McCartin dominate a game more. He never had a big 6 goal haul in the U18 champs like Hawkins did.

[tweedaletomanning]

Look At Port Adelaide Everybody!

Where have their MASSIVE improvement come from?

Midfielders or Key forwards?

[HitTheBoundary]

Dave, I assume you've never seen him play?

"McCartin has more than one way to find the ball and kick goals, he is an exceptional grab who has impressed with the intelligent leading patterns he runs as a forward. He is more than just a goal-square forward – he can play centre half-forward and get up and down the ground."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/trading-an ... 1u8bh.html

[Con Gorozidis]

Look At Port Adelaide Everybody!

Where have their MASSIVE improvement come from?

Midfielders or forwards?

midfielders but they didnt need pick 1 to get them.

wines, wingard, polec, boak all early picks but not pick 1s then gray with a later pick.

[Dr Spaceman]

Dave, I'm not going to waste my time doing your research for you.

I have not read one expert who does not rate Paddy. Either as #1 or #2. Not one expert has shared your "concerns".

This year Paddy was playing against Kids. But so was Petracca and 95% of the other potential Draftees.

Paddy does play 1 position, that of a Key Forward. Petracca plays one position, that of a Midfielder (yes he can play forward but you wouldn't draft him for that)

Anyway can't be bothered writing any more on this. Like I said, you may not be on your own in wanting CP but you seem totally on your own in labeling PMcC a non rookieable dud (by the way, did you label Jack Watts a dud before he was drafted?)

Just relax and learn to enjoy the Cartman

[Verdun66]

Or at least take a Bex and lie down

Bex has been withdrwan from sale Doc... wrecks kidneys... but you knew that.


So Doc, maybe you could answer a few of my concerns for me, you know, set me at ease.

- Why in the modern game would anyone pick a player who can only play one position (and it ain't ruck)? That's an immediate big black texta line right there.

- The write ups mention crashing packs (again, of school kids), but also mention that he doesn't actually take pack marks, but gets his marks on the lead.
In the modern ultra defensive uber flooding game, how is McCartin going to consistently find forward line space often enough?

This bloke's game is clearly fatally flawed. I just can't see how he can successfully make the transition to senior footy. And not one post nor article that I've read has addressed these points!

In contrast...

Petracca will be a star, and probably better.
Petracca will kick more goals than McCartin.
Multi pronged attacks with multiple marking options, further boosted by on ballers who can also rest up forward and take contested marks, are the go now... see the 2014 premiers, see Port Adelaide who almost displaced said 2014 premiers from the GF...



So come on all you Paddy fans, please address my concerns so I can rest easy and not wreck my kidneys.

Just for starters Knightmare who writes the most respected Phantom draft on BF says that PM is a very good pack mark who at the very least brings the ball to ground.

Listening to a SEN podcast earlier David Schwartz said that PM was the perfect key forward size, and the bigger guys other than Paul Salmon in his early years hadn't actually done anything yet.

It's all opinion, as the years ahead will tell the real story. I reckon the blokes who are now in our recruiting area know more than all us supporters. Our bad recruiting in the 2004-2011 era can't be laid at their feet.

[Ghost Like]

My observations FWIW...

Petracca is compared to a Judd / Ricciuto. From my memories the Eagles or Crows did not have a stand out forward and won flags

If we choose a player based on current market price of that particular position and in light of Boyd's allegiance to his initial club, could we not be held to a similar ransom?

On a side note, not important in the grand scheme, but in nearly every ad for this draft, Petracca is the one shown. We appear to be on a hiding to nothing, I hope we are not trying to be too clever. Keep it simple, in the evolution of our game, the one constant has been quality on ballers.

I'd like to know who Geelong would of sacrificed a few years a go, Stevie J or Hawkins, if they had to choose?

Will be an interesting few years ahead watching the path of these two. I wish them both well but hope for a more distinguished and decorated career of our boy, whoever it is.

[samoht]

If McCartin is who we choose, then obviously he has impressed our recruiters more than Petracca and co.
McCartin was considered no.1, by all and sundry, for a lot longer than Petracca has. There must be a reason for that.
He's obviously got a lot going for him.

Let's get behind the impressive young man (should we choose him) and back our recruiters.
Maybe Petracca's hip is a worry, too?

Go Saints.

[Gershwin]

Or at least take a Bex and lie down

Bex has been withdrwan from sale Doc... wrecks kidneys... but you knew that.


So Doc, maybe you could answer a few of my concerns for me, you know, set me at ease.

- Why in the modern game would anyone pick a player who can only play one position (and it ain't ruck)? That's an immediate big black texta line right there.

- The write ups mention crashing packs (again, of school kids), but also mention that he doesn't actually take pack marks, but gets his marks on the lead.
In the modern ultra defensive uber flooding game, how is McCartin going to consistently find forward line space often enough?

This bloke's game is clearly fatally flawed. I just can't see how he can successfully make the transition to senior footy. And not one post nor article that I've read has addressed these points!

In contrast...

Petracca will be a star, and probably better.
Petracca will kick more goals than McCartin.
Multi pronged attacks with multiple marking options, further boosted by on ballers who can also rest up forward and take contested marks, are the go now... see the 2014 premiers, see Port Adelaide who almost displaced said 2014 premiers from the GF...



So come on all you Paddy fans, please address my concerns so I can rest easy and not wreck my kidneys.

He is only 18! You speak like what we see now is what we get for the next 15 years. If so why would we have a Development Academy? They will work on any perceived weaknesses.

He will get fitter, more skilled, more versatile and it is expected that he will be a top key position player for many years. He may end up a 'swing' key-position player able to go into defence if necessary. He will probably learn how to pinch-hit in the ruck.

Finding forward space involves every player in the team. In fact that is what the game has turned into - a game of space - filling it up or creating it.

Personally I would prefer Petracca but quite comfortable if we take McCartin.

[Con Gorozidis]

Just as long as they think they are picking the best player. Then pick that person. Dont over think it and try and be too clever worrying about positions and markets and other clubs and other players etc etc etc. Dont outsmart yourself.

Then do the same for pick 21, 22, 41.

[saintly]

While I would much prefer we pick Petracca (the better player) over McCartin (the rarer commodity), the thing that really irks me is the fact that the club leaks like a sieve - again. Every single ******* decision this club makes hits the headlines five days before it's released officially.

It shows a complete lack of discipline if nothing else ...

if you listened to Brett from Inside football on SEN he stated that the club has not leaked anything.

[tweedaletomanning]

My observations FWIW...

Petracca is compared to a Judd / Ricciuto. From my memories the Eagles or Crows did not have a stand out forward and won flags

If we choose a player based on current market price of that particular position and in light of Boyd's allegiance to his initial club, could we not be held to a similar ransom?

On a side note, not important in the grand scheme, but in nearly every ad for this draft, Petracca is the one shown. We appear to be on a hiding to nothing, I hope we are not trying to be too clever. Keep it simple, in the evolution of our game, the one constant has been quality on ballers.

I'd like to know who Geelong would of sacrificed a few years a go, Stevie J or Hawkins, if they had to choose?

Will be an interesting few years ahead watching the path of these two. I wish them both well but hope for a more distinguished and decorated career of our boy, whoever it is.

Good Post!

Like Ghost Like!

[Wayne42]

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-11-2 ... first-pick






Richardson said while the decision for pick 1 was driven by factors such as character and values, ultimately it came down to who the club believed is the best player."

Surely it's Petracca then

the coach also said this...


""If we go for the best player and we think Petracca is in front, we’re going to have to pay a million plus to get the forward we need. The market is saying that now. So let's get one in now and get him to fall in love with our footy club."


so fiik

What BS reasoning!

Oh, and McCartin is not going to be a ten year forward anyway.

He's only what, 194cm, with key posi' players getting bigger each year, he's already small.

Crash packs... huh... packs of kids... and yet doesn't take pack marks... against kids? How's he going to get his goals? When he can't kick goals, where else can he play in this age of versatility...?

Seriously, what do people seriously see in McCartin, other than flashing red lights and blaring sirens warning of impending doom???


Petracca will kick more goals than McCartin... in 2015, and throughout his career.

McCartin will stuggle to make the grade at all... let alone be a star.

Whereas Petracca is almost guaranteed to be a star, and a bloody good chance to be one of the all time greats!

I really hope this is all just the media having a bit of fun, coz if not, we are going to regret it for as long as Petracca plays.

McCartin at No 1??? Move over Jack Watts.

It reads like the Petracca hype is based on one season as a quality mid, and by the way, Petracca is not classed as the same quality as the silky mids of previous years, McCartin has been labelled as the standout Key Forward of the draft. I would go McCartin based on the fact we don't have any proven quality key forwards coming through the system.The downside is when a potential quality Key forward comes along clubs will now offer him a mil a year to jump ship. If you want to entice one in the trade period the prediction is you'll need to be able to understand these 7 figure sums. McCartin may not stay..Risky business recruiting,

[Dave McNamara]

Dave, I assume you've never seen him play?

"McCartin has more than one way to find the ball and kick goals, he is an exceptional grab who has impressed with the intelligent leading patterns he runs as a forward. He is more than just a goal-square forward – he can play centre half-forward and get up and down the ground."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/trading-an ... 1u8bh.html

Uhmmmm..., HTB, that link was just Emma Q and one sentence saying that maybe if he got fitter he could maybe get up the ground. I must have missed the CHF bit(?) Everything I've read (and plenty of others on here have also quoted the same) says that he's one position only, and get his marks and goals on the lead.

And seems he's shrinking... only 193cm now... isn't that Tom Simpkin's height?

Lots of blokes look good in the junior levels. Picking who is good at that level is not only easy, it's obvious. IMHO, the recruiters' art is determining who will be able to successfully transition to being able to showcase their tricks against the big boys in the AFL.

One obvious one would be a clear lack of the necessary work ethic. Another is if a bloke is simply too slight... that is what stops Tezza being a star. But for many many others it's a real challenge, and often a lottery, to try and work it out. Hence, the recruiters 'art'.

Now, looking at McCartin and his clear 'red warning light' shortcomings, I just can't see how he can successfully transition to senior AFL footy. And this just seems sooooooo obvious.

Whereas every write-up and recruiter (including in your link) goes for Petracca as the best in the draft.

Plus, he also kicks goals. Remembering, he starred as an underage player in the U18s, as a strong marking key forward, before upping his endurance, moving into the mid field... and domininating again.

I just don't get how there could be any hesitation re Petracca over McCartin.


And remember, other clubs were keen to offer up plenty for our No 1 pick... does anyone think that was to get their hands on McCartin... anyone...?