Picks 21 and 22 options

[Gershwin]

Dave we need at least 2 or 3 outside running receivers. Our problem is we have to many who go and get the ball where as we need more Billings types.

Savage is an outside running receiver and I think Wright will be used in that role also. I've got high hopes for Wright next season.

[Devilhead]

Weller Jr. looks all class - great movement, great vision, great skills

If he fell to 21 I would be very surprised

[Dave McNamara]

21 - Weller
22 - Lamb
41 - Touk Miller

Rookies (from) - Schneider, McKernan, Petrenko, Jeremy Taylor, Caleb Daniel, Keenan Ramsey,
Ryan Lim, Nick Mellington,

That's going backwards MCGU.

- Weller is too small and is an outside only player - no receivers is my mantra.
- Lamb I've totally gone off. Too many major (quite possibly fatal) flaws if that Knightmare assessment is even partially accurate.
- The Toukster at 41 however would be very good value.
- Ditto for Caleb D as a rookie pick. Would he really last till then...?

Which way in the pecking order is my man the Cockatoo moving?

Weller - Knightmare's mock draft has him at 17 - and a draft range of 5-15. In KM's profile on Weller he states ...."not a soft outside player..."Of the better mock drafts on BF, Weller is rated at going around 5 -- 8. Paige C says he can play inside.
I always prefer inside types if possible. Saints have a slowish midfield and need runners - and he is a deadly kick.

Maybe he didn't interview all that well (esp with GC) as he wants to play with Mav - perhaps get the best out of both. Also due to injury he didn't test at the Combine. - so he might slide. Those I like best will be gone by 21-22, so I went with Weller & Lamb. Process of elimation, have changed my mock first Rnd many times. Had De Goey, Blakely, Maynard & Bampton all in the mix for 21-22.

Lamb - Knightmare may have listed some faults - yet he has him going at 19 - with a draft range of 6--25. Can't be that flawed.
What I like, he is versatile, very athletic & major upside I reckon. 192/83. Outstanding draft Combine. Boom or bust type

Cockatoo - Reckon he goes to WCE at 11, NM at 16 or Ess at 17. Won't be there for the Saints IMO

Fair assessment MCGU.

I have no problem with blokes who are outside runners. My problem is with receivers... blokes who cannot win their own footy, but have to rely on someone else to do that for them. I don't care what talents a player has, I have zero respect (in a footballing sense) for receivers.

And I call upon the angry gnome, and reigning premiership coach , as my support here.

I've previously used the Dawks 2012 vs 2013 sides as an example. In 2012 the Swines showed the footy world how to beat the Dawks.

In the pressure cooker of a GF, the Dawk's outside runners, who had been cutting teams up with their precision left foot passing, had their supply severely curtailed... suddenly, they couldn't get a kick.

Clarkson clearly noticed also, and tweaked the game plan and personnel accordingly...
2013, another pressure cooker GF, and this time they won (relatively comfortably),
2014... they won easily.

So, I have no problem with the concept of teams needing good outside, run and carry types who can deliver with precision...
but, to win in the pressure cooker environment of a GF...
every player who wears the wondrous tri-panel must also be able to win, and relish winning ..., his own contested footy.

[plugger66]

21 - Weller
22 - Lamb
41 - Touk Miller

Rookies (from) - Schneider, McKernan, Petrenko, Jeremy Taylor, Caleb Daniel, Keenan Ramsey,
Ryan Lim, Nick Mellington,

That's going backwards MCGU.

- Weller is too small and is an outside only player - no receivers is my mantra.
- Lamb I've totally gone off. Too many major (quite possibly fatal) flaws if that Knightmare assessment is even partially accurate.
- The Toukster at 41 however would be very good value.
- Ditto for Caleb D as a rookie pick. Would he really last till then...?

Which way in the pecking order is my man the Cockatoo moving?

Weller - Knightmare's mock draft has him at 17 - and a draft range of 5-15. In KM's profile on Weller he states ...."not a soft outside player..."Of the better mock drafts on BF, Weller is rated at going around 5 -- 8. Paige C says he can play inside.
I always prefer inside types if possible. Saints have a slowish midfield and need runners - and he is a deadly kick.

Maybe he didn't interview all that well (esp with GC) as he wants to play with Mav - perhaps get the best out of both. Also due to injury he didn't test at the Combine. - so he might slide. Those I like best will be gone by 21-22, so I went with Weller & Lamb. Process of elimation, have changed my mock first Rnd many times. Had De Goey, Blakely, Maynard & Bampton all in the mix for 21-22.

Lamb - Knightmare may have listed some faults - yet he has him going at 19 - with a draft range of 6--25. Can't be that flawed.
What I like, he is versatile, very athletic & major upside I reckon. 192/83. Outstanding draft Combine. Boom or bust type

Cockatoo - Reckon he goes to WCE at 11, NM at 16 or Ess at 17. Won't be there for the Saints IMO

Fair assessment MCGU.

I have no problem with blokes who are outside runners. My problem is with receivers... blokes who cannot win their own footy, but have to rely on someone else to do that for them. I don't care what talents a player has, I have zero respect (in a footballing sense) for receivers.

And I call upon the angry gnome, and reigning premiership coach , as my support here.

I've previously used the Dawks 2012 vs 2013 sides as an example. In 2012 the Swines showed the footy world how to beat the Dawks.

In the pressure cooker of a GF, the Dawk's outside runners, who had been cutting teams up with their precision left foot passing, had their supply severely curtailed... suddenly, they couldn't get a kick.

Clarkson clearly noticed also, and tweaked the game plan and personnel accordingly...
2013, another pressure cooker GF, and this time they won (relatively comfortably),
2014... they won easily.

So, I have no problem with the concept of teams needing good outside, run and carry types who can deliver with precision...
but, to win in the pressure cooker environment of a GF...
every player who wears the wondrous tri-panel must also be able to win, and relish winning ..., his own contested footy.

I don't really think you get footy these days Dave. The Hawks have a heap of outside players, probably more than the swans and their run killed the swans GF day as well as their inside players. We have a heap of inside players but lack outside run. Time to get in the 2010's Dave. Own contested footy is fine but having all those types wont ever win a flag. Need a balance and at te moment we don't have it.

[gringo]

21 - Weller
22 - Lamb
41 - Touk Miller

Rookies (from) - Schneider, McKernan, Petrenko, Jeremy Taylor, Caleb Daniel, Keenan Ramsey,
Ryan Lim, Nick Mellington,

That's going backwards MCGU.

- Weller is too small and is an outside only player - no receivers is my mantra.
- Lamb I've totally gone off. Too many major (quite possibly fatal) flaws if that Knightmare assessment is even partially accurate.
- The Toukster at 41 however would be very good value.
- Ditto for Caleb D as a rookie pick. Would he really last till then...?

Which way in the pecking order is my man the Cockatoo moving?

Weller - Knightmare's mock draft has him at 17 - and a draft range of 5-15. In KM's profile on Weller he states ...."not a soft outside player..."Of the better mock drafts on BF, Weller is rated at going around 5 -- 8. Paige C says he can play inside.
I always prefer inside types if possible. Saints have a slowish midfield and need runners - and he is a deadly kick.

Maybe he didn't interview all that well (esp with GC) as he wants to play with Mav - perhaps get the best out of both. Also due to injury he didn't test at the Combine. - so he might slide. Those I like best will be gone by 21-22, so I went with Weller & Lamb. Process of elimation, have changed my mock first Rnd many times. Had De Goey, Blakely, Maynard & Bampton all in the mix for 21-22.

Lamb - Knightmare may have listed some faults - yet he has him going at 19 - with a draft range of 6--25. Can't be that flawed.
What I like, he is versatile, very athletic & major upside I reckon. 192/83. Outstanding draft Combine. Boom or bust type

Cockatoo - Reckon he goes to WCE at 11, NM at 16 or Ess at 17. Won't be there for the Saints IMO

Fair assessment MCGU.

I have no problem with blokes who are outside runners. My problem is with receivers... blokes who cannot win their own footy, but have to rely on someone else to do that for them. I don't care what talents a player has, I have zero respect (in a footballing sense) for receivers.

And I call upon the angry gnome, and reigning premiership coach , as my support here.

I've previously used the Dawks 2012 vs 2013 sides as an example. In 2012 the Swines showed the footy world how to beat the Dawks.

In the pressure cooker of a GF, the Dawk's outside runners, who had been cutting teams up with their precision left foot passing, had their supply severely curtailed... suddenly, they couldn't get a kick.

Clarkson clearly noticed also, and tweaked the game plan and personnel accordingly...
2013, another pressure cooker GF, and this time they won (relatively comfortably),
2014... they won easily.

So, I have no problem with the concept of teams needing good outside, run and carry types who can deliver with precision...
but, to win in the pressure cooker environment of a GF...
every player who wears the wondrous tri-panel must also be able to win, and relish winning ..., his own contested footy.

I don't really think you get footy these days Dave. The Hawks have a heap of outside players, probably more than the swans and their run killed the swans GF day as well as their inside players. We have a heap of inside players but lack outside run. Time to get in the 2010's Dave. Own contested footy is fine but having all those types wont ever win a flag. Need a balance and at te moment we don't have it.

I agree, outside run is severely missing at the saints.

[St Ick]

Weller wont be available but mark my words will be a dead set gun! Class personified - he is a rolls royce - he may be more outside than in but he certainly isn't just an outside mid - can win his own ball and will only improve/be more capable in that side of his game when he bulks up a bit which is what an AFL system will do to him.

Our midfield would have Mav, Petracca, Ross, Dunstan & TC in it. I've previously stated inside mids are more likely to make it but if we were able to select Lachie we would be mad not to. I see him as a bit of Dal Santo in that he is just so silky but not entirely a one dimentional reciever, a wonderful compliment to any midfield.

[Goose is king]

Absolutely agree we need more outside run and spread.
So often our defenders look up the field and everyone seems flat footed.
They then look for Roos 50m lead as it the best option and kick to him down the line.

[Dave McNamara]

I have no problem with blokes who are outside runners. My problem is with receivers... blokes who cannot win their own footy, but have to rely on someone else to do that for them. I don't care what talents a player has, I have zero respect (in a footballing sense) for receivers.

And I call upon the angry gnome, and reigning premiership coach , as my support here.

I've previously used the Dawks 2012 vs 2013 sides as an example. In 2012 the Swines showed the footy world how to beat the Dawks.

In the pressure cooker of a GF, the Dawk's outside runners, who had been cutting teams up with their precision left foot passing, had their supply severely curtailed... suddenly, they couldn't get a kick.

Clarkson clearly noticed also, and tweaked the game plan and personnel accordingly...
2013, another pressure cooker GF, and this time they won (relatively comfortably),
2014... they won easily.

So, I have no problem with the concept of teams needing good outside, run and carry types who can deliver with precision...
but, to win in the pressure cooker environment of a GF...
every player who wears the wondrous tri-panel must also be able to win, and relish winning ..., his own contested footy.

Hi Guys, (as I posted above) I do agree totally with you all re our need for blokes who can run, spread, carry and deliver accurately.

However..., I want no player in our team who cannot win their own contested footy.
This is non-negotiable... ask Clarkson.
(Only one bloke I'd call a receiver in their 2014 GF side... and I wouldn't have played him, but just like Big Ben vs Cigler... ended up making no difference.)

For mine, a really good example would be Nicky Dal. Sublime foot skills, so is seen by many as an outside player. I see this as most unfair. Nick can also win definitely win his own (fiercely) contested footy.


When the pressure is on, receivers crack, whereas those who love the contest... thrive.

If we want to win big finals, if we want to win premierships, every single Saints player must relish winning the contested footy.



(Out of interest, from our 2014 list, the only two blokes who to me are clearly receivers... are no longer on our list. I doubt many people would have much trouble working out whom I'm referring to.)

[plugger66]

I have no problem with blokes who are outside runners. My problem is with receivers... blokes who cannot win their own footy, but have to rely on someone else to do that for them. I don't care what talents a player has, I have zero respect (in a footballing sense) for receivers.

And I call upon the angry gnome, and reigning premiership coach , as my support here.

I've previously used the Dawks 2012 vs 2013 sides as an example. In 2012 the Swines showed the footy world how to beat the Dawks.

In the pressure cooker of a GF, the Dawk's outside runners, who had been cutting teams up with their precision left foot passing, had their supply severely curtailed... suddenly, they couldn't get a kick.

Clarkson clearly noticed also, and tweaked the game plan and personnel accordingly...
2013, another pressure cooker GF, and this time they won (relatively comfortably),
2014... they won easily.

So, I have no problem with the concept of teams needing good outside, run and carry types who can deliver with precision...
but, to win in the pressure cooker environment of a GF...
every player who wears the wondrous tri-panel must also be able to win, and relish winning ..., his own contested footy.

Hi Guys, (as I posted above) I do agree totally with you all re our need for blokes who can run, spread, carry and deliver accurately.

However..., I want no player in our team who cannot win their own contested footy.
This is non-negotiable... ask Clarkson.
(Only one bloke I'd call a receiver in their 2014 GF side... and I wouldn't have played him, but just like Big Ben vs Cigler... ended up making no difference.)

For mine, a really good example would be Nicky Dal. Sublime foot skills, so is seen by many as an outside player. I see this as most unfair. Nick can also win definitely win his own (fiercely) contested footy.


When the pressure is on, receivers crack, whereas those who love the contest... thrive.

If we want to win big finals, if we want to win premierships, every single Saints player must relish winning the contested footy.



(Out of interest, from our 2014 list, the only two blokes who to me are clearly receivers... are no longer on our list. I doubt many people would have much trouble working out whom I'm referring to.)

Dave what you class as an outside receiver and what coaches do are completely different things. The Hawks have more than most sides. Every player can win their own ball but they have many who receive it and that is what we need. I think you have the term wrong anyway. Outside runners is the new term for receivers but its still the same thing and there is nothing wrong with that. Billings is an outside runner. Smith is for the hawks as well as Stratton and probably 3 or 4 others.

[Dave McNamara]

I reckon our Jack B (like Nicky Dal) can earn his own footy, Pluggs. (TDL and Tezza couldn't.)

I still use the old term 'receiver', but if you prefer 'outside runner' then that's fine with me.

The Dawks were shown up badly in that 2012 GF. Clarkson realised that and made the required tweaks to their game plan and personnel... the results weren't too shabby.

One sees a lot of blokes in the modern game who wait for someone else to win the footy for them. If they actually have to win it for themselves, you see them just paddling it along, not wanting to bite the bullet and take possession... or like Guerra, just fall over to 'excuse' themselves from the contest.

Relying on uncontested possessions... Geez, even I could look damn good if someone gave me the footy... out on my own.

I only want blokes who relish scrapping for the footy when necessary. That's my non-negotiable.

(So for example, despite his size, I'd love us to end up with Caleb Daniel, but I'd be mortified if we ended up with the likes of a Jack Wattshegoodfor.)

[plugger66]

I reckon our Jack B (like Nicky Dal) can earn his own footy, Pluggs. (TDL and Tezza couldn't.)

I still use the old term 'receiver', but if you prefer 'outside runner' then that's fine with me.

The Dawks were shown up badly in that 2012 GF. Clarkson realised that and made the required tweaks to their game plan and personnel... the results weren't too shabby.

One sees a lot of blokes in the modern game who wait for someone else to win the footy for them. If they actually have to win it for themselves, you see them just paddling it along, not wanting to bite the bullet and take possession... or like Guerra, just fall over to 'excuse' themselves from the contest.

Relying on uncontested possessions... Geez, even I could look damn good if someone gave me the footy... out on my own.

I only want blokes who relish scrapping for the footy when necessary. That's my non-negotiable.

(So for example, despite his size, I'd love us to end up with Caleb Daniel, but I'd be mortified if we ended up with the likes of a Jack Wattshegoodfor.)

TDL and Tezza couldn't win any ball because they weren't good enough. It has nothing to do with them being receivers or outside runners. Billings is an outside runner or in the old term more of a receiver. It isn't a slight on him. Every single player in the AFL can win their own ball but we want players who receive it more than win their own ball. Maybe 60-40 or 70-30. I Hope Petracca is a 70-30 the other way. We already have about 5 of them. Have no idea of that last player you mentioned. Also can you tell me how the Hawks changed their style after 2012? I cant see it. They just played btter than the opposition in the other years. And strange to pick on Guerra who played about 250 AFL games. Weird way of looking at footy.

[6621104]

I have no idea about percentages, proportions etc. AFAIK only one guy has the ball at any one time, and hopefully he delivers it to one of his team - mates who receives it. What we need, regardless of position played, is guys who play as if they are Un-opposed- ie keep the ball the focus. guys who hear footsteps get found out. I suspect Dave is being a little disingenuous in his favouring of the contested ball champion, but p66 is deliberately so in reply.

[plugger66]

I have no idea about percentages, proportions etc. AFAIK only one guy has the ball at any one time, and hopefully he delivers it to one of his team - mates who receives it. What we need, regardless of position played, is guys who play as if they are Un-opposed- ie keep the ball the focus. guys who hear footsteps get found out. I suspect Dave is being a little disingenuous in his favouring of the contested ball champion, but p66 is deliberately so in reply.

I think you are wrong about what I said. No you are 100% wrong. I don't even understand your point about what I said.

[Dave McNamara]

I reckon our Jack B (like Nicky Dal) can earn his own footy, Pluggs. (TDL and Tezza couldn't.)

I still use the old term 'receiver', but if you prefer 'outside runner' then that's fine with me.

The Dawks were shown up badly in that 2012 GF. Clarkson realised that and made the required tweaks to their game plan and personnel... the results weren't too shabby.

One sees a lot of blokes in the modern game who wait for someone else to win the footy for them. If they actually have to win it for themselves, you see them just paddling it along, not wanting to bite the bullet and take possession... or like Guerra, just fall over to 'excuse' themselves from the contest.

Relying on uncontested possessions... Geez, even I could look damn good if someone gave me the footy... out on my own.

I only want blokes who relish scrapping for the footy when necessary. That's my non-negotiable.

(So for example, despite his size, I'd love us to end up with Caleb Daniel, but I'd be mortified if we ended up with the likes of a Jack Wattshegoodfor.)

TDL and Tezza couldn't win any ball because they weren't good enough. It has nothing to do with them being receivers or outside runners. Billings is an outside runner or in the old term more of a receiver. It isn't a slight on him. Every single player in the AFL can win their own ball but we want players who receive it more than win their own ball. Maybe 60-40 or 70-30. I Hope Petracca is a 70-30 the other way. We already have about 5 of them. Have no idea of that last player you mentioned. Also can you tell me how the Hawks changed their style after 2012? I cant see it. They just played btter than the opposition in the other years. And strange to pick on Guerra who played about 250 AFL games. Weird way of looking at footy.

- I wouldn't call Billings an outside runner Pluggs. More a case of he knows where the ball is going, c/f relying on someone to spoon feed it to him out on his own.
- I can't agree with re "every single player in the AFL can win their own ball". (Jack Wattshegoodfor, the worst No1 pick in recent memory being a prime example.) Besides, by definition, if every player could win their own footy, they all stars, and ranking them would come down to pretty much disposal and work ethic.
- The Dawks clearly tweaked what they were doing. They had to(!) In 2012 when the going was tough, their receivers weren't being spoon fed... and disappeared. The Swines demonstrated to the competition the blueprint for beating the Dawks. Stop the likes of Mitchell, and you stop half a dozen others. (A bit like with Diesel Williams at the Hillbillies and the Swines.)
Clarkson clearly took note, and made the necessary adjustments. If you can't see that, then maybe try asking him Pluggs, or someone who was who was involved down there at the time(?)
- Petracca is the No 1 draft pick coz he can be devastating as both an 'inside' and 'outside' player.

[Dave McNamara]

I have no idea about percentages, proportions etc.
AFAIK only one guy has the ball at any one time, and hopefully he delivers it to one of his team - mates who receives it.
What we need, regardless of position played, is guys who play as if they are Un-opposed- ie keep the ball the focus. guys who hear footsteps get found out. I suspect Dave is being a little disingenuous in his favouring of the contested ball champion, but p66 is deliberately so in reply.

The highlighted section is of course correct. My point is that when the blokes who normally do the 'getting of the ball' are curtailed, the receivers also disappear.

Thus, receivers who can't win their own footy make a team very vulnerable.

In some ways, a bit like a side that relies on a gun full-forward to kick a bag each week. It means that you've only gotta' stop a couple of blokes, to stop a heap of other blokes. (Again, Dawks in GF 2012.)

[Dave McNamara]

I nearly forgot Pluggs... my man Guerra.

Sniper who loved taking out blokes... when they weren't looking.

But if there was ever a hard ball to be won, Guerra would always fall over to 'excuse' himself from the contest. (That missed opportunity in the 2004 PF being a classic example.)

He played 250 games, but mainly as a loose man in defense. One of the most overrated players ever. Played ten great games for us in 2004, then started falling over. I was very happy to see the back of him from our club.

[plugger66]

I reckon our Jack B (like Nicky Dal) can earn his own footy, Pluggs. (TDL and Tezza couldn't.)

I still use the old term 'receiver', but if you prefer 'outside runner' then that's fine with me.

The Dawks were shown up badly in that 2012 GF. Clarkson realised that and made the required tweaks to their game plan and personnel... the results weren't too shabby.

One sees a lot of blokes in the modern game who wait for someone else to win the footy for them. If they actually have to win it for themselves, you see them just paddling it along, not wanting to bite the bullet and take possession... or like Guerra, just fall over to 'excuse' themselves from the contest.

Relying on uncontested possessions... Geez, even I could look damn good if someone gave me the footy... out on my own.

I only want blokes who relish scrapping for the footy when necessary. That's my non-negotiable.

(So for example, despite his size, I'd love us to end up with Caleb Daniel, but I'd be mortified if we ended up with the likes of a Jack Wattshegoodfor.)

TDL and Tezza couldn't win any ball because they weren't good enough. It has nothing to do with them being receivers or outside runners. Billings is an outside runner or in the old term more of a receiver. It isn't a slight on him. Every single player in the AFL can win their own ball but we want players who receive it more than win their own ball. Maybe 60-40 or 70-30. I Hope Petracca is a 70-30 the other way. We already have about 5 of them. Have no idea of that last player you mentioned. Also can you tell me how the Hawks changed their style after 2012? I cant see it. They just played btter than the opposition in the other years. And strange to pick on Guerra who played about 250 AFL games. Weird way of looking at footy.

- I wouldn't call Billings an outside runner Pluggs. More a case of he knows where the ball is going, c/f relying on someone to spoon feed it to him out on his own.
- I can't agree with re "every single player in the AFL can win their own ball". (Jack Wattshegoodfor, the worst No1 pick in recent memory being a prime example.) Besides, by definition, if every player could win their own footy, they all stars, and ranking them would come down to pretty much disposal and work ethic.
- The Dawks clearly tweaked what they were doing. They had to(!) In 2012 when the going was tough, their receivers weren't being spoon fed... and disappeared. The Swines demonstrated to the competition the blueprint for beating the Dawks. Stop the likes of Mitchell, and you stop half a dozen others. (A bit like with Diesel Williams at the Hillbillies and the Swines.)
Clarkson clearly took note, and made the necessary adjustments. If you can't see that, then maybe try asking him Pluggs, or someone who was who was involved down there at the time(?)
- Petracca is the No 1 draft pick coz he can be devastating as both an 'inside' and 'outside' player.

Billings is an outside player no matter how many eyes you watch him play with. And Watts wins his own ball just like every AFL player no matter how many eyes you watch him play with. I gather you meant Watts but its hard to work out with these childish names. And what a silly comment about if players could win their own ball then ranking would come to disposal and work ethic. That's plainly wrong because not every players wins the same own ball. I thought you were better than that. And the Hawks clearly tweaked but you failed to tell me how apart from they clearly tweaked. What I do know is they had more outside run than the Swans in the GF as well as great inside play. And yes Clarkson just played that overrated Guerra because he had too. My guess is he understands footy more than you and didn't think Guerra was overrated. maybe he could just read some of your replies to realise he does understand footy better than you.

[saintsRrising]

Looking at everyone's wish list for 21-22 there would seem to be a lot of hope that a fancied player like a Cockatoo, or a Garlett, might slip.

Not sure it will happen though. I think it more likely we will get a "solid" mid like ANB, or a key forward/defender like McKenzie who look capable but have a few question marks. A more highly ranked player slipping may happen, but I would be surprised based on the assessments of the pool of "draft watchers". Lamb perhaps as he has talent, but also a few "ifs" and concerns.

Last year we had picks 18/19 and looking at the various Phantom Drafts for this from people that know a lot more about assessing the talent it would seem to me that if we had them again this year that we would be a lot happier than with the players that we will gain at 21-22 this year.

At about pick 19 or 20, the talent looks to step down a notch, with the "if/buts" coming into the draftee assessments.

So I think the most likely scenario is that we are just going to miss out on getting two players that would have all on this us on forum wetting ourselves in excitement.

In addition I think that this 20+ tier of players is a group were in 4 years time that all clubs will look back with half seeing players that did not make it. Nailing our selections here will give us a nice nudge along. But we could easily end up with little too. The 20+ tier to me is at much greater risk of not becoming AFL level footballers than the sub-20 tier. For example McKenzie could be a really capable key marking forward, or he may just never get past developing all facets of his game enough to make it.

[borderbarry]

Cockatoo to W.C. at 9? What they wont take Pickett now? Anyhow, if they do take Cockatoo that would leave Pickett, Ahearn, and Garlett. Surely one of them will drift our to 21-22.

[saintsRrising]

Cockatoo to W.C. at 9? What they wont take Pickett now? Anyhow, if they do take Cockatoo that would leave Pickett, Ahearn, and Garlett. Surely one of them will drift our to 21-22.

I would hope that one does. I am just suggesting that if I average out the more knowledgeable draft watchers that they will not.

Of the ones you have indicated most would look to be top 16.
Cockatoo looks to be the late season bolter.
Garlett would look to be the main chance.

Again I am guessing..but it may be more likely that someone like Maynard may slide.

And while I am guessing, my guess is also that at around 20 tat there is a step down in quality and we just miss on the ones we want. I hope that I am wrong.

Who do you have in your top 20?

[stinger]

I nearly forgot Pluggs... my man Guerra.

Sniper who loved taking out blokes... when they weren't looking.

But if there was ever a hard ball to be won, Guerra would always fall over to 'excuse' himself from the contest. (That missed opportunity in the 2004 PF being a classic example.)

He played 250 games, but mainly as a loose man in defense. One of the most overrated players ever. Played ten great games for us in 2004, then started falling over. I was very happy to see the back of him from our club.

a sniper and a dog good riddance ...football better off without mongrels like him...imho...and whats with the wig ffs...

[plugger66]

I nearly forgot Pluggs... my man Guerra.

Sniper who loved taking out blokes... when they weren't looking.

But if there was ever a hard ball to be won, Guerra would always fall over to 'excuse' himself from the contest. (That missed opportunity in the 2004 PF being a classic example.)

He played 250 games, but mainly as a loose man in defense. One of the most overrated players ever. Played ten great games for us in 2004, then started falling over. I was very happy to see the back of him from our club.

a sniper and a dog good riddance ...football better off without mongrels like him...imho...and whats with the wig ffs...

Now I know you are wrong about Guerra Dave. Makes me feel better.

[Con Gorozidis]

Jarrod Pickett.
Seems like a good kid. His mum is a lawyer AND related to Nicky Winmar.

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2014-11-04/ ... od-pickett

Cant see him getting to 21 unfortunately. Looks like a top 10er to me.

Both KM and PC have us taking Garlett which wouldnt be bad.

[Dave McNamara]

I nearly forgot Pluggs... my man Guerra.

Sniper who loved taking out blokes... when they weren't looking.

But if there was ever a hard ball to be won, Guerra would always fall over to 'excuse' himself from the contest. (That missed opportunity in the 2004 PF being a classic example.)

He played 250 games, but mainly as a loose man in defense. One of the most overrated players ever. Played ten great games for us in 2004, then started falling over. I was very happy to see the back of him from our club.

a sniper and a dog good riddance ...football better off without mongrels like him...imho...and whats with the wig ffs...

Now I know you are wrong about Guerra Dave. Makes me feel better.

Pluggs... you mean... you actually doubted yourself...?

[Dave McNamara]

I only want blokes who relish scrapping for the footy when necessary. That's my non-negotiable.

Every single player in the AFL can win their own ball but we want players who receive it more than win their own ball.

- I can't agree with re "every single player in the AFL can win their own ball".

And what a silly comment about if players could win their own ball then ranking would come to disposal and work ethic. That's plainly wrong because not every players wins the same own ball.

What do you mean by "not every players wins the same own ball", Pluggs?

If every player could win his own footy, then none of them would be struggling to get a kick. By definition that'd have to be a given.

Hence, players would then be ranked on 'hunger' (how often they could be bothered to go and win a kick) and 'disposal efficiency'.