Chris Pelchen - The aftermath

[magnifisaint]

So he wasn't sacked?

[satchmo]

So he wasn't sacked?

He had to sack himself. Was the only one with the nads to do it...

[plugger66]

Pelchen did the right things in trading out the stars. That there can be no doubt about. What I still don't like was the use of picks 12 and 13 to get multiple players for picks that maybe could have got very good players. Yep the players taken at those picks from other clubs haven't really worked out but who is to say we would have taken them. And yes I know we got other players as well but if none or bugger all make it then it has been another waste Also getting Longer when we had Hickey again doesn't make sense to me. He certainly did the right thing though in making sure we bottomed out quickly.

I also heard the interview today and I couldn't disagree with him anymore when he said we were in a similar position to the Hawks in 2004. Maybe we will be at the end of next year or even the year after but we are no where near the rebuilding stage of the Hawks in 2004. Not even close.

[karnaby]

I also heard the interview today and I couldn't disagree with him anymore when he said we were in a similar position to the Hawks in 2004. Maybe we will be at the end of next year or even the year after but we are no where near the rebuilding stage of the Hawks in 2004. Not even close.

Completely unsurprised that you insist that you know more than a long term footy professional.



Very good to listen to the Pelchen interview. I recommend it.

[plugger66]

I also heard the interview today and I couldn't disagree with him anymore when he said we were in a similar position to the Hawks in 2004. Maybe we will be at the end of next year or even the year after but we are no where near the rebuilding stage of the Hawks in 2004. Not even close.

Completely unsurprised that you insist that you know more than a long term footy professional.



Very good to listen to the Pelchen interview. I recommend it.

Im sorry. Yes we should all agree with him even though he was sacked from our club. Terry Wallace disagrees as well but what would he know. What a stupid response by you. By the way the Hawks had Hodge, Franklin and Roughead by the end of that year. All top 5 picks. 2 KPP stars and one great mid. We will have 2 top 3 picks but no KPP stars. One other thing is there was no GWS or GC.

So you honestly think we could win a flag in 4 years? Great. I reckon we will struggle to be in the finals in 4 years because we don't have the 23 to 28 year olds.

[SainterK]

So he wasn't sacked?

He had to sack himself. Was the only one with the nads to do it...

Hardly gonna say he was sacked, that he did a poor job, that it was unfinished....given he's looking for employment.

Oh, and Pelchen.

157.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Im sorry. Yes we should all agree with him even though he was sacked from our club.

Were you at the recruiting dept for the hawks in 2004 and St Kilda in 2014? If not maybe Pelchans assessment carries a tad more weight than yours.

Terry Wallace disagrees as well but what would he know.

Not much - Tambling over Frankin when at the Tigers.

By the way the Hawks had Hodge, Franklin and Roughead by the end of that year.

Well by the end of next year we may have Petracca, Cameron, and Treloar plus another #1

So you honestly think we could win a flag in 4 years? Great. I reckon we will struggle to be in the finals in 4 years because we don't have the 23 to 28 year olds.

Probably not, but 2020 is not in four years.

[plugger66]

Im sorry. Yes we should all agree with him even though he was sacked from our club.

Were you at the recruiting dept for the hawks in 2004 and St Kilda in 2014? If not maybe Pelchans assessment carries a tad more weight than yours.

Terry Wallace disagrees as well but what would he know.

Not much - Tambling over Frankin when at the Tigers.

By the way the Hawks had Hodge, Franklin and Roughead by the end of that year.

Well by the end of next year we may have Petracca, Cameron, and Treloar plus another #1

So you honestly think we could win a flag in 4 years? Great. I reckon we will struggle to be in the finals in 4 years because we don't have the 23 to 28 year olds.

Probably not, but 2020 is not in four years.

Unimpressible quoting. Well done. Are you actually saying I cant have another opinion because I wasn't at meetings. So Pelchens opinion carries more weight than mine. Wow. Who would have guessed. Does that mean once someone says something that carries more weight than us we must agree with them. Yep that would make this a good forum. Are you saying Wallace cant have another opinion because he picked Tambling. My god. And yep we may have those guys next year but we haven't yet and Pelchen said we were very similar to the Hawks as of now. Get that BM. Obviously not. What is your point of this quoting? Are you totally agreeing with Pelchen that this years list is similar to the Hawks in 2004? If so that's fine. Im not going to say why do disagree with a coach and player like Terry Wallace. Im not that silly. What a boring place this would be if we agreed with every Saints person or even sacked Saints persons who by the way is always going to say we are in good shape especially if he wants another job in the industry. Now quote your heart out again.

[manoffewwords]

I fully believe he was sacked. He was talking to a potential addition to the coaching panel in the days before the announcement and was talking like a man who had a future at the club.

[remboy]

Pelchen did the right things in trading out the stars. That there can be no doubt about. What I still don't like was the use of picks 12 and 13 to get multiple players for picks that maybe could have got very good players. Yep the players taken at those picks from other clubs haven't really worked out but who is to say we would have taken them. And yes I know we got other players as well but if none or bugger all make it then it has been another waste Also getting Longer when we had Hickey again doesn't make sense to me. He certainly did the right thing though in making sure we bottomed out quickly.

I also heard the interview today and I couldn't disagree with him anymore when he said we were in a similar position to the Hawks in 2004. Maybe we will be at the end of next year or even the year after but we are no where near the rebuilding stage of the Hawks in 2004. Not even close.

Pelchen seems to like deals that involve getting multiple players/picks for a single player. I think the deals for 12 & 13 were done largely because those drafts were compromised by GWS & GC concessions. As a result, it was felt that the players we would get at 24&25 would be nearly as good as what was available at 12/13 and we'd get a player as well. All hypothetical though and we'll never know what might have been.
Hopefully it turns out to be a good deal for us because we can't undo it.

[saintsRrising]

Hardly gonna say ............., that it was unfinished.....

Why not? Pelchen never said or implied that it was meant to be finished now and indeed he has always stated the opposite.

He has always been open, and perhaps too open, as to his strategy and that it was very much a longterm rebuild.

So in fact he has indicated it is unfinished, and it is meant to be at the current state of the rebuild.


So it is hardly a negative that the rebuild is currently "unfinished".

[stinger]

So he wasn't sacked?

He had to sack himself. Was the only one with the nads to do it...

that right....

[stinger]

Pelchen did the right things in trading out the stars. That there can be no doubt about. What I still don't like was the use of picks 12 and 13 to get multiple players for picks that maybe could have got very good players. Yep the players taken at those picks from other clubs haven't really worked out but who is to say we would have taken them. And yes I know we got other players as well but if none or bugger all make it then it has been another waste Also getting Longer when we had Hickey again doesn't make sense to me. He certainly did the right thing though in making sure we bottomed out quickly.

I also heard the interview today and I couldn't disagree with him anymore when he said we were in a similar position to the Hawks in 2004. Maybe we will be at the end of next year or even the year after but we are no where near the rebuilding stage of the Hawks in 2004. Not even close.

Pelchen seems to like deals that involve getting multiple players/picks for a single player. I think the deals for 12 & 13 were done largely because those drafts were compromised by GWS & GC concessions. As a result, it was felt that the players we would get at 24&25 would be nearly as good as what was available at 12/13 and we'd get a player as well. All hypothetical though and we'll never know what might have been.
Hopefully it turns out to be a good deal for us because we can't undo it.

picks 12 and 13 were sam docherty and taylor adams

[dragit]

Pelchen did the right things in trading out the stars. That there can be no doubt about. What I still don't like was the use of picks 12 and 13 to get multiple players for picks that maybe could have got very good players. Yep the players taken at those picks from other clubs haven't really worked out but who is to say we would have taken them. And yes I know we got other players as well but if none or bugger all make it then it has been another waste Also getting Longer when we had Hickey again doesn't make sense to me. He certainly did the right thing though in making sure we bottomed out quickly.

I also heard the interview today and I couldn't disagree with him anymore when he said we were in a similar position to the Hawks in 2004. Maybe we will be at the end of next year or even the year after but we are no where near the rebuilding stage of the Hawks in 2004. Not even close.

Pelchen seems to like deals that involve getting multiple players/picks for a single player. I think the deals for 12 & 13 were done largely because those drafts were compromised by GWS & GC concessions. As a result, it was felt that the players we would get at 24&25 would be nearly as good as what was available at 12/13 and we'd get a player as well. All hypothetical though and we'll never know what might have been.
Hopefully it turns out to be a good deal for us because we can't undo it.

picks 12 and 13 were sam docherty and taylor adams

The year we gave them away it was Jaksch & Lonergan…

Docherty & Adams were the year before.

Check your book

[stinger]

Pelchen did the right things in trading out the stars. That there can be no doubt about. What I still don't like was the use of picks 12 and 13 to get multiple players for picks that maybe could have got very good players. Yep the players taken at those picks from other clubs haven't really worked out but who is to say we would have taken them. And yes I know we got other players as well but if none or bugger all make it then it has been another waste Also getting Longer when we had Hickey again doesn't make sense to me. He certainly did the right thing though in making sure we bottomed out quickly.

I also heard the interview today and I couldn't disagree with him anymore when he said we were in a similar position to the Hawks in 2004. Maybe we will be at the end of next year or even the year after but we are no where near the rebuilding stage of the Hawks in 2004. Not even close.

Pelchen seems to like deals that involve getting multiple players/picks for a single player. I think the deals for 12 & 13 were done largely because those drafts were compromised by GWS & GC concessions. As a result, it was felt that the players we would get at 24&25 would be nearly as good as what was available at 12/13 and we'd get a player as well. All hypothetical though and we'll never know what might have been.
Hopefully it turns out to be a good deal for us because we can't undo it.

picks 12 and 13 were sam docherty and taylor adams

The year we gave them away it was Jaksch & Lonergan…

Docherty & Adams were the year before.

Check your book

i wasn't sure....thanks oh intelligent one.... ...ten times worse...imho

[plugger66]

Pelchen did the right things in trading out the stars. That there can be no doubt about. What I still don't like was the use of picks 12 and 13 to get multiple players for picks that maybe could have got very good players. Yep the players taken at those picks from other clubs haven't really worked out but who is to say we would have taken them. And yes I know we got other players as well but if none or bugger all make it then it has been another waste Also getting Longer when we had Hickey again doesn't make sense to me. He certainly did the right thing though in making sure we bottomed out quickly.

I also heard the interview today and I couldn't disagree with him anymore when he said we were in a similar position to the Hawks in 2004. Maybe we will be at the end of next year or even the year after but we are no where near the rebuilding stage of the Hawks in 2004. Not even close.

Pelchen seems to like deals that involve getting multiple players/picks for a single player. I think the deals for 12 & 13 were done largely because those drafts were compromised by GWS & GC concessions. As a result, it was felt that the players we would get at 24&25 would be nearly as good as what was available at 12/13 and we'd get a player as well. All hypothetical though and we'll never know what might have been.
Hopefully it turns out to be a good deal for us because we can't undo it.

picks 12 and 13 were sam docherty and taylor adams

The year we gave them away it was Jaksch & Lonergan…

Docherty & Adams were the year before.

Check your book

i wasn't sure....thanks oh intelligent one.... ...ten times worse...imho

What do you mean? Which are the better players?

[saintsRrising]

When he started Saints had one development coach and 1.5 FT recruiters

Now four FT for each.

.

I suspect this is a big reason why he is going.

> Strategy developed and in place.
> The 'hard calls" on players and contracts have already been done apart from the yearly culling that will still need to be done.
> 4 'modern method" recruiters in place (feet all under the desk and knowing what they are doing)
> Framework and tools in place

+ Beveridge already hire to boost the coaching side

A full time, and dare I say it highly paid, list management change agent was no longer required....and his skill set was not suited to other areas.

Tis a bit like needing an obstetrician. You have an urgent need one for a while, but you no longer need them after the birth.

[The OtherThommo]

I'm still stuck at "Meh". It's just the bidness.

The Pelican came, he worked and I reckon we've got some very promising youngsters out of his addressing of the TPP bind we were stuck with. Without that issue being addressed we were cattle trucked for way longer than I think it will take to rise from where we are now.

I'm just looking forward to how good (e.g.) Jack #3 can become, and how quickly. Personally, I reckon it's gonna be very quick and we seem to be establishing an environment where he won't be the only one.

I'll take watching a plan to get better unfold every day of the week ahead of trying to hang on to past (almost) glories.

I reckon we'll travel up quicker than most seem to think. But, then, I do tend to the optimistic - I also reckon the game's way different now, even compared to just a few years ago. The 2 new clubs have changed the dynamic, and I reckon we've read that OK.

[MC Gusto]

Article in the sun where he compares our current list to hawthorns in 2004...can anyone do the analysis?

[Darth Vader]

I also heard the interview today and I couldn't disagree with him anymore when he said we were in a similar position to the Hawks in 2004. Maybe we will be at the end of next year or even the year after but we are no where near the rebuilding stage of the Hawks in 2004. Not even close.

Completely unsurprised that you insist that you know more than a long term footy professional.



Very good to listen to the Pelchen interview. I recommend it.

Im sorry. Yes we should all agree with him even though he was sacked from our club. Terry Wallace disagrees as well but what would he know. What a stupid response by you. By the way the Hawks had Hodge, Franklin and Roughead by the end of that year. All top 5 picks. 2 KPP stars and one great mid. We will have 2 top 3 picks but no KPP stars. One other thing is there was no GWS or GC.

So you honestly think we could win a flag in 4 years? Great. I reckon we will struggle to be in the finals in 4 years because we don't have the 23 to 28 year olds.

Yeah, I reckon there was a fair bit of talking up where we're at with an eye on future job prospects.

[Dave McNamara]

...Without that issue being addressed we were cattle trucked for way longer than I think it will take to rise from where we are now.

I'm just looking forward to how good (e.g.) Jack #3 can become, and how quickly. Personally, I reckon it's gonna be very quick and we seem to be establishing an environment where he won't be the only one.

I'll take watching a plan to get better unfold every day of the week ahead of trying to hang on to past (almost) glories.

I reckon we'll travel up quicker than most seem to think.

I also reckon the game's way different now, even compared to just a few years ago. The 2 new clubs have changed the dynamic, and I reckon we've read that OK.

This!
This!
This!
This!

and

This!

Flag in 2018 a very good chance as long as we hold our nerve and stick to the plan... which I'm confident that we will. (See ToT's final point.)

[Bunk_Moreland]

Im sorry. Yes we should all agree with him even though he was sacked from our club.

Were you at the recruiting dept for the hawks in 2004 and St Kilda in 2014? If not maybe Pelchans assessment carries a tad more weight than yours.

Terry Wallace disagrees as well but what would he know.

Not much - Tambling over Frankin when at the Tigers.

By the way the Hawks had Hodge, Franklin and Roughead by the end of that year.

Well by the end of next year we may have Petracca, Cameron, and Treloar plus another #1

So you honestly think we could win a flag in 4 years? Great. I reckon we will struggle to be in the finals in 4 years because we don't have the 23 to 28 year olds.

Probably not, but 2020 is not in four years.

Unimpressible quoting. Well done. Are you actually saying I cant have another opinion because I wasn't at meetings. So Pelchens opinion carries more weight than mine. Wow. Who would have guessed. Does that mean once someone says something that carries more weight than us we must agree with them. Yep that would make this a good forum. Are you saying Wallace cant have another opinion because he picked Tambling. My god. And yep we may have those guys next year but we haven't yet and Pelchen said we were very similar to the Hawks as of now. Get that BM. Obviously not. What is your point of this quoting? Are you totally agreeing with Pelchen that this years list is similar to the Hawks in 2004? If so that's fine. Im not going to say why do disagree with a coach and player like Terry Wallace. Im not that silly. What a boring place this would be if we agreed with every Saints person or even sacked Saints persons who by the way is always going to say we are in good shape especially if he wants another job in the industry. Now quote your heart out again.

Unimpressive single paragraph. Wont quote, it seems to upset you for some bizarre reason. Maybe you just like to posion the well so nobody will look at your incorrect and ignorant assumptions. You really cant cope with a simple deconstruction of your "logic" can you?

So all Pelchan did was attend meetings according to your rant above. Hmmm think his job had a bit more to it than that. Anyway even if it did, his opinion would hod more weight than yours as he has much more knowledge than you.

You seem to be upset by that fact, the same way you are upset at Tony74 and jaxons having more knowledge about things at the club than you do. Oh well..

As for Wallace, you used him as an example to back up your argument. I used a simple example of his recruiting prowess, again that seemed to upset you.

As for the comparison b/w Hawks and Saints, you said at the END of that year they had Hodge, Roughhead, and Franklin. Tell me, how many games did Roughhead and Franklin play in 2004 for the Hawks? Answer is zero. So you are using an example of a list that bears no resemblence to what Pelchan referred to - the 2004 Hawks, again an incorrect assumption.

Funny how you blindly follow and "not silly enough" to disagree Wallace because he coached a decade ago and played twenty years ago, but instantly disagree with Pelchan about something he was directly involved with both at Hawthorn and St.Kilda. I take it you ARE silly enough to disagree with the person who was instrumental in putting both lists together. Very strange.

As for you last weird paragraph, straw man and quite strange comments. Who said nobody could disagree? All that was stated was that Pelchan had more gravitas to his opinion than you who has no inside knowledge or was not present at either club. You get all upset and put out because your "opinion" has been called.

I, and most sensible people would put more credence in some like Pelchan who actually work in the role than some nobody on an internet forum.

I didn't quote you as I could bear to read another of your posts where you are so upset and put out about someone answering your points in a logical way.

Deep breathe P66, walk 137 metres up the road and see what Bevo thinks (shout loud though, he is not in the country, but you would know that wouldn't you )

[plugger66]

Im sorry. Yes we should all agree with him even though he was sacked from our club.

Were you at the recruiting dept for the hawks in 2004 and St Kilda in 2014? If not maybe Pelchans assessment carries a tad more weight than yours.

Terry Wallace disagrees as well but what would he know.

Not much - Tambling over Frankin when at the Tigers.

By the way the Hawks had Hodge, Franklin and Roughead by the end of that year.

Well by the end of next year we may have Petracca, Cameron, and Treloar plus another #1

So you honestly think we could win a flag in 4 years? Great. I reckon we will struggle to be in the finals in 4 years because we don't have the 23 to 28 year olds.

Probably not, but 2020 is not in four years.

Unimpressible quoting. Well done. Are you actually saying I cant have another opinion because I wasn't at meetings. So Pelchens opinion carries more weight than mine. Wow. Who would have guessed. Does that mean once someone says something that carries more weight than us we must agree with them. Yep that would make this a good forum. Are you saying Wallace cant have another opinion because he picked Tambling. My god. And yep we may have those guys next year but we haven't yet and Pelchen said we were very similar to the Hawks as of now. Get that BM. Obviously not. What is your point of this quoting? Are you totally agreeing with Pelchen that this years list is similar to the Hawks in 2004? If so that's fine. Im not going to say why do disagree with a coach and player like Terry Wallace. Im not that silly. What a boring place this would be if we agreed with every Saints person or even sacked Saints persons who by the way is always going to say we are in good shape especially if he wants another job in the industry. Now quote your heart out again.

Unimpressive single paragraph. Wont quote, it seems to upset you for some bizarre reason. Maybe you just like to posion the well so nobody will look at your incorrect and ignorant assumptions. You really cant cope with a simple deconstruction of your "logic" can you?

So all Pelchan did was attend meetings according to your rant above. Hmmm think his job had a bit more to it than that. Anyway even if it did, his opinion would hod more weight than yours as he has much more knowledge than you.

You seem to be upset by that fact, the same way you are upset at Tony74 and jaxons having more knowledge about things at the club than you do. Oh well..

As for Wallace, you used him as an example to back up your argument. I used a simple example of his recruiting prowess, again that seemed to upset you.

As for the comparison b/w Hawks and Saints, you said at the END of that year they had Hodge, Roughhead, and Franklin. Tell me, how many games did Roughhead and Franklin play in 2004 for the Hawks? Answer is zero. So you are using an example of a list that bears no resemblence to what Pelchan referred to - the 2004 Hawks, again an incorrect assumption.

Funny how you blindly follow and "not silly enough" to disagree Wallace because he coached a decade ago and played twenty years ago, but instantly disagree with Pelchan about something he was directly involved with both at Hawthorn and St.Kilda. I take it you ARE silly enough to disagree with the person who was instrumental in putting both lists together. Very strange.

As for you last weird paragraph, straw man and quite strange comments. Who said nobody could disagree? All that was stated was that Pelchan had more gravitas to his opinion than you who has no inside knowledge or was not present at either club. You get all upset and put out because your "opinion" has been called.

I, and most sensible people would put more credence in some like Pelchan who actually work in the role than some nobody on an internet forum.

I didn't quote you as I could bear to read another of your posts where you are so upset and put out about someone answering your points in a logical way.

Deep breathe P66, walk 137 metres up the road and see what Bevo thinks (shout loud though, he is not in the country, but you would know that wouldn't you )

BM I keep telling you I never get upset on here. We don't even know each other. I would get upset if real people to my face had a go at me. And just because you break things down doesn't make it impressive especially when they illogical comments. Who said I followed Wallace. I said he said the same thing. I made up my mind as soon as I heardPelchen speak. And who said anyone had to agree with what I said. Certainly not me but if those reasons you stated as why people shouldn't agree with methren they are plainly stupid otherwise no one on here can disagree wth any club decision because we don't know all the facts. This is forum for opinions and please attack my opinion but don't pathetically use the crap you did to attack it. And I walked to Bevo and its now 138 metres. No idea if he was home though as I went next door. Now I see the anger again as you read this but remember I have never ever been as angry as you. Angry enough to say I will never post here again and then be childish enough to threaten people with warnings for using an old nic. I actually did a search to see if I could call you out for saying similar things like I did but all I could find was about 20 from your other nic. Not worth getting a warning for bringing them up because you once had a hissy fit and acted like a 10 year old. See the anger, the bristling, the shaking, the red face.

Anyway I still say Pelchen was talking crap when he said our list is in a very similar position to the Hawks in 2004. And I still say I am allowed that opinion without working at the club. If it is in a similar position then we should be on an upward trend next year. If its ok with you I think we will actually win less games next year than this year and that is why I think he is talking crap. I don't think I need at attaend mettings or work at the club to think that about next season.

[perfectionist]

...Anyway I still say Pelchen was talking crap when he said our list is in a very similar position to the Hawks in 2004...

Maybe, but it was at least self serving. On the other hand, what else was he going to say publicly, "I stuffed up"?

The thing about Hawthorn's list in 2004 is that it contained two players that ours does not - Luke Hodge (2001)and Sam Mitchell (2001). These two players embody the characteristics that we should be looking for in the draft - they are skilled on both sides with hand and foot. Neither is fast, in fact, both are slow. But they can both baulk, just like Lenny could, and you can baulk successfully if you can kick either foot. Both can pick the best option ahead of play, Lenny could too and, of course, Robert Harvey was a master at it. That does come with experience. But skills don't. That is why (repeating myself again) that we must pick the most highly skilled player with our number 1 pick. A player like Jarryd Roughhead (no 2 in 2004) would be nice, but he really is a once in a generation player. People might recall that our top pick for that year was Andrew McQualter at No 17, and many of the players after pick seven (Jordon Lewis) turned out to be duds.

[Con Gorozidis]

Mitchell is a phenomenal footy player.