Chris Pelchen - The aftermath

[LondonSaint]

Whether you love him or loath him, I think we can all agree that Chris Pelchen is figure that generates much debate...
I'll argue this is mainly because his role as a list manager/head of football, is someone who's responsible for sacking and recruiting at a normal company
tough and contraversial gig? I would think so.

Let's look at his time at St Kilda.

Chris Pelchen officially joined the saints in August 2011.
- We have just lost coach Ross Lyon to Fremantle at the end of the season
- The club's salary cap is maxed out.. understandablly after a successful 2009/2010 campaign
- The club list talent bar a number of stars is poor.. understandablly because of poor recruiting resource and lack of focus on development under Lyon
- The club is in decline, end of an era according to Ross Lyon.

Was Chris the right person for the job to rebuild St Kilda under the circumstances?
- He did help Port Adelaide/Hawthorn to build their list, and look at them.
- We need some help urgently to re-build the list, re-balance salary cap, look for a new coach etc.
- So, with his expertise/background, I would say he is the right person for the job.

Let's look at his controversial recruiting decisions during his time.
1. Brendan Goddard leaving at the end of 2012 - Goddard is offered more money, and more success at Essendon, with our salary cap situation, regrettably we had no choice but to let him go. Note this is the first year of the free agency era, players has now more power than ever.. case in point Griffen.

2. Nick Dal Santo - Again, Nick was let go. He was 29 and is offered more opportunity and money by North Melbourne. The club had a strategy to re-balance salary cap, so again regrettablly let Nick go.

3. Ben Mcevoy to Hawthorn for Pick 18 (Dunstan), Savage and pick upgrade (19 from 24 which allowed us to get Blake Acres) - A win/win situation for both parties.
Let's be honest, Mcevoy was not a ruckmen, had little physicality and is at his best taking marks at our backline.. yes, our backline.

4. Wanted to trade Pick 1 for multiple first round picks - it fell through at the end because what was offered... If it was pick #4, #7 for our #1, #21, then I agree it's not a convincing enough offer to take.

Now letting favourite sons Goddard, Dal Santo is always going to pee off some supporters.. no matter what the rationale is... so we know why Pelchen is much hated by some on here.. but i would think it's more to do with his role/the state of our club/strategic vision, rather than Pelchen it's self. I would think somone else in the same role would made similar decisions...

Now we've made the hard decisions... (list management, salary cap wise), the club wanted to install someone to fast track the football side of things e.g. development, performance etc, it make sense for Pelchen who is a primarily a list manager/strategist to step aside. I'm not saying Pelchen is saint, and I'm sure he would have upset a lot of people inside the club with some of his decisions.. but i think some of the criticism here towards Pelchen is a little unwarranted..

In summary, Pelchen is neither a villain, or a saviour.. He took a tough job at our club in time of decline/crisis (poor list, player development, salary cap), and I for one think he did a tough job well.

End of rant.

[santazzi]

Whether you love him or loath him, I think we can all agree that Chris Pelchen is figure that generates much debate...
I'll argue this is mainly because his role as a list manager/head of football, is someone who's responsible for sacking and recruiting at a normal company
tough and contraversial gig? I would think so.

Let's look at his time at St Kilda.

Chris Pelchen officially joined the saints in August 2011.
- We have just lost coach Ross Lyon to Fremantle at the end of the season
- The club's salary cap is maxed out.. understandablly after a successful 2009/2010 campaign
- The club list talent bar a number of stars is poor.. understandablly because of poor recruiting resource and lack of focus on development under Lyon
- The club is in decline, end of an era according to Ross Lyon.

Was Chris the right person for the job to rebuild St Kilda under the circumstances?
- He did help Port Adelaide/Hawthorn to build their list, and look at them.
- We need some help urgently to re-build the list, re-balance salary cap, look for a new coach etc.
- So, with his expertise/background, I would say he is the right person for the job.

Let's look at his controversial recruiting decisions during his time.
1. Brendan Goddard leaving at the end of 2012 - Goddard is offered more money, and more success at Essendon, with our salary cap situation, regrettably we had no choice but to let him go. Note this is the first year of the free agency era, players has now more power than ever.. case in point Griffen.

2. Nick Dal Santo - Again, Nick was let go. He was 29 and is offered more opportunity and money by North Melbourne. The club had a strategy to re-balance salary cap, so again regrettablly let Nick go.

3. Ben Mcevoy to Hawthorn for Pick 18 (Dunstan), Savage and pick upgrade (19 from 24 which allowed us to get Blake Acres) - A win/win situation for both parties.
Let's be honest, Mcevoy was not a ruckmen, had little physicality and is at his best taking marks at our backline.. yes, our backline.

4. Wanted to trade Pick 1 for multiple first round picks - it fell through at the end because what was offered... If it was pick #4, #7 for our #1, #21, then I agree it's not a convincing enough offer to take.

Now letting favourite sons Goddard, Dal Santo is always going to pee off some supporters.. no matter what the rationale is... so we know why Pelchen is much hated by some on here.. but i would think it's more to do with his role/the state of our club/strategic vision, rather than Pelchen it's self. I would think somone else in the same role would made similar decisions...

Now we've made the hard decisions... (list management, salary cap wise), the club wanted to install someone to fast track the football side of things e.g. development, performance etc, it make sense for Pelchen who is a primarily a list manager/strategist to step aside. I'm not saying Pelchen is saint, and I'm sure he would have upset a lot of people inside the club with some of his decisions.. but i think some of the criticism here towards Pelchen is a little unwarranted..

In summary, Pelchen is neither a villain, or a saviour.. He took a tough job at our club in time of decline/crisis (poor list, player development, salary cap), and I for one think he did a tough job well.

End of rant.

Amen....you make a lot of sense.

[Con Gorozidis]

A well balanced, thoughtful & sensible post London Saint.

Clearly you are in the wrong place

[skeptic]

RE Nick Dal Santo... whilst not part of the trade, I do believe getting Delaney was at least unofficially part of the decision to let Nick go... makes that a more positive move IMO

[Scoop]

Whether you love him or loath him, I think we can all agree that Chris Pelchen is figure that generates much debate...
I'll argue this is mainly because his role as a list manager/head of football, is someone who's responsible for sacking and recruiting at a normal company
tough and contraversial gig? I would think so.

Let's look at his time at St Kilda.

Chris Pelchen officially joined the saints in August 2011.
- We have just lost coach Ross Lyon to Fremantle at the end of the season
- The club's salary cap is maxed out.. understandablly after a successful 2009/2010 campaign
- The club list talent bar a number of stars is poor.. understandablly because of poor recruiting resource and lack of focus on development under Lyon
- The club is in decline, end of an era according to Ross Lyon.

Was Chris the right person for the job to rebuild St Kilda under the circumstances?
- He did help Port Adelaide/Hawthorn to build their list, and look at them.
- We need some help urgently to re-build the list, re-balance salary cap, look for a new coach etc.
- So, with his expertise/background, I would say he is the right person for the job.

Let's look at his controversial recruiting decisions during his time.
1. Brendan Goddard leaving at the end of 2012 - Goddard is offered more money, and more success at Essendon, with our salary cap situation, regrettably we had no choice but to let him go. Note this is the first year of the free agency era, players has now more power than ever.. case in point Griffen.

2. Nick Dal Santo - Again, Nick was let go. He was 29 and is offered more opportunity and money by North Melbourne. The club had a strategy to re-balance salary cap, so again regrettablly let Nick go.

3. Ben Mcevoy to Hawthorn for Pick 18 (Dunstan), Savage and pick upgrade (19 from 24 which allowed us to get Blake Acres) - A win/win situation for both parties.
Let's be honest, Mcevoy was not a ruckmen, had little physicality and is at his best taking marks at our backline.. yes, our backline.

4. Wanted to trade Pick 1 for multiple first round picks - it fell through at the end because what was offered... If it was pick #4, #7 for our #1, #21, then I agree it's not a convincing enough offer to take.

Now letting favourite sons Goddard, Dal Santo is always going to pee off some supporters.. no matter what the rationale is... so we know why Pelchen is much hated by some on here.. but i would think it's more to do with his role/the state of our club/strategic vision, rather than Pelchen it's self. I would think somone else in the same role would made similar decisions...

Now we've made the hard decisions... (list management, salary cap wise), the club wanted to install someone to fast track the football side of things e.g. development, performance etc, it make sense for Pelchen who is a primarily a list manager/strategist to step aside. I'm not saying Pelchen is saint, and I'm sure he would have upset a lot of people inside the club with some of his decisions.. but i think some of the criticism here towards Pelchen is a little unwarranted..

In summary, Pelchen is neither a villain, or a saviour.. He took a tough job at our club in time of decline/crisis (poor list, player development, salary cap), and I for one think he did a tough job well.

End of rant.

Excellent post. Agree totally.

[WinnersOnly]

Insightful and well versed thanks LondonSaint! Never ceases to amaze how quickly AFL people turn on their own when they leave a club.

[Wayne42]

Whether you love him or loath him, I think we can all agree that Chris Pelchen is figure that generates much debate...
I'll argue this is mainly because his role as a list manager/head of football, is someone who's responsible for sacking and recruiting at a normal company
tough and contraversial gig? I would think so.

Let's look at his time at St Kilda.

Chris Pelchen officially joined the saints in August 2011.
- We have just lost coach Ross Lyon to Fremantle at the end of the season
- The club's salary cap is maxed out.. understandablly after a successful 2009/2010 campaign
- The club list talent bar a number of stars is poor.. understandablly because of poor recruiting resource and lack of focus on development under Lyon
- The club is in decline, end of an era according to Ross Lyon.

Was Chris the right person for the job to rebuild St Kilda under the circumstances?
- He did help Port Adelaide/Hawthorn to build their list, and look at them.
- We need some help urgently to re-build the list, re-balance salary cap, look for a new coach etc.
- So, with his expertise/background, I would say he is the right person for the job.

Let's look at his controversial recruiting decisions during his time.
1. Brendan Goddard leaving at the end of 2012 - Goddard is offered more money, and more success at Essendon, with our salary cap situation, regrettably we had no choice but to let him go. Note this is the first year of the free agency era, players has now more power than ever.. case in point Griffen.

2. Nick Dal Santo - Again, Nick was let go. He was 29 and is offered more opportunity and money by North Melbourne. The club had a strategy to re-balance salary cap, so again regrettablly let Nick go.

3. Ben Mcevoy to Hawthorn for Pick 18 (Dunstan), Savage and pick upgrade (19 from 24 which allowed us to get Blake Acres) - A win/win situation for both parties.
Let's be honest, Mcevoy was not a ruckmen, had little physicality and is at his best taking marks at our backline.. yes, our backline.

4. Wanted to trade Pick 1 for multiple first round picks - it fell through at the end because what was offered... If it was pick #4, #7 for our #1, #21, then I agree it's not a convincing enough offer to take.

Now letting favourite sons Goddard, Dal Santo is always going to pee off some supporters.. no matter what the rationale is... so we know why Pelchen is much hated by some on here.. but i would think it's more to do with his role/the state of our club/strategic vision, rather than Pelchen it's self. I would think somone else in the same role would made similar decisions...

Now we've made the hard decisions... (list management, salary cap wise), the club wanted to install someone to fast track the football side of things e.g. development, performance etc, it make sense for Pelchen who is a primarily a list manager/strategist to step aside. I'm not saying Pelchen is saint, and I'm sure he would have upset a lot of people inside the club with some of his decisions.. but i think some of the criticism here towards Pelchen is a little unwarranted..

In summary, Pelchen is neither a villain, or a saviour.. He took a tough job at our club in time of decline/crisis (poor list, player development, salary cap), and I for one think he did a tough job well.

End of rant.

Good summary.

I should re-read this thread again tomorrow, could be amusing by then.

[thejiggingsaint]

Excellent contribution London Saint. A calm, reasoned, and well considered take on the situation! Your OP not only made sense, but was a most enjoyable read! Thanks!

GO SAINTS! (to hell with the rest!)

[stinger]

Whether you love him or loath him, I think we can all agree that Chris Pelchen is figure that generates much debate...
I'll argue this is mainly because his role as a list manager/head of football, is someone who's responsible for sacking and recruiting at a normal company
tough and contraversial gig? I would think so.

Let's look at his time at St Kilda.

Chris Pelchen officially joined the saints in August 2011.
- We have just lost coach Ross Lyon to Fremantle at the end of the season
- The club's salary cap is maxed out.. understandablly after a successful 2009/2010 campaign
- The club list talent bar a number of stars is poor.. understandablly because of poor recruiting resource and lack of focus on development under Lyon
- The club is in decline, end of an era according to Ross Lyon.

Was Chris the right person for the job to rebuild St Kilda under the circumstances?
- He did help Port Adelaide/Hawthorn to build their list, and look at them.
- We need some help urgently to re-build the list, re-balance salary cap, look for a new coach etc.
- So, with his expertise/background, I would say he is the right person for the job.

Let's look at his controversial recruiting decisions during his time.
1. Brendan Goddard leaving at the end of 2012 - Goddard is offered more money, and more success at Essendon, with our salary cap situation, regrettably we had no choice but to let him go. Note this is the first year of the free agency era, players has now more power than ever.. case in point Griffen.

2. Nick Dal Santo - Again, Nick was let go. He was 29 and is offered more opportunity and money by North Melbourne. The club had a strategy to re-balance salary cap, so again regrettablly let Nick go.

3. Ben Mcevoy to Hawthorn for Pick 18 (Dunstan), Savage and pick upgrade (19 from 24 which allowed us to get Blake Acres) - A win/win situation for both parties.
Let's be honest, Mcevoy was not a ruckmen, had little physicality and is at his best taking marks at our backline.. yes, our backline.

4. Wanted to trade Pick 1 for multiple first round picks - it fell through at the end because what was offered... If it was pick #4, #7 for our #1, #21, then I agree it's not a convincing enough offer to take.

Now letting favourite sons Goddard, Dal Santo is always going to pee off some supporters.. no matter what the rationale is... so we know why Pelchen is much hated by some on here.. but i would think it's more to do with his role/the state of our club/strategic vision, rather than Pelchen it's self. I would think somone else in the same role would made similar decisions...

Now we've made the hard decisions... (list management, salary cap wise), the club wanted to install someone to fast track the football side of things e.g. development, performance etc, it make sense for Pelchen who is a primarily a list manager/strategist to step aside. I'm not saying Pelchen is saint, and I'm sure he would have upset a lot of people inside the club with some of his decisions.. but i think some of the criticism here towards Pelchen is a little unwarranted..

In summary, Pelchen is neither a villain, or a saviour.. He took a tough job at our club in time of decline/crisis (poor list, player development, salary cap), and I for one think he did a tough job well.

End of rant.

Amen....you make a lot of sense.

contrary to others...don't agree with some of your post


he didn't get along with others.....reason lyon left....watters too in a round about way,......in the end his inability to communicate well with others cost him his job....before it was finished.....we offered bj the same amount of money ...but for some perverse reason less years....so cost us bj...don't blame pp.........mcevoy was on his plus side......but dal was a disaster......we got sfa for him...would have got delaney anyway.........piss poor decision.........stanley...according to some in the know was traded mainly as an afterthought.,......as the club states they weren't going to do that......has the potential to really bite us on the arse......pick 21 will have to be chosen wisely......he was so obsessed with numbers of early draft picks rather than the quality of those picks.....probably had to be restrained from giving in to gws.......drafting, saad, milers and tdl were disasters and will come back to haunt us......we could have recruited some decent kids.....

....overall he was a miserable failure who spit before his job was completd...thankfully......we probably would have folded if he has spent to many more years at the club......hate to say it...but nixon is right...

[plugger66]

Whether you love him or loath him, I think we can all agree that Chris Pelchen is figure that generates much debate...
I'll argue this is mainly because his role as a list manager/head of football, is someone who's responsible for sacking and recruiting at a normal company
tough and contraversial gig? I would think so.

Let's look at his time at St Kilda.

Chris Pelchen officially joined the saints in August 2011.
- We have just lost coach Ross Lyon to Fremantle at the end of the season
- The club's salary cap is maxed out.. understandablly after a successful 2009/2010 campaign
- The club list talent bar a number of stars is poor.. understandablly because of poor recruiting resource and lack of focus on development under Lyon
- The club is in decline, end of an era according to Ross Lyon.

Was Chris the right person for the job to rebuild St Kilda under the circumstances?
- He did help Port Adelaide/Hawthorn to build their list, and look at them.
- We need some help urgently to re-build the list, re-balance salary cap, look for a new coach etc.
- So, with his expertise/background, I would say he is the right person for the job.

Let's look at his controversial recruiting decisions during his time.
1. Brendan Goddard leaving at the end of 2012 - Goddard is offered more money, and more success at Essendon, with our salary cap situation, regrettably we had no choice but to let him go. Note this is the first year of the free agency era, players has now more power than ever.. case in point Griffen.

2. Nick Dal Santo - Again, Nick was let go. He was 29 and is offered more opportunity and money by North Melbourne. The club had a strategy to re-balance salary cap, so again regrettablly let Nick go.

3. Ben Mcevoy to Hawthorn for Pick 18 (Dunstan), Savage and pick upgrade (19 from 24 which allowed us to get Blake Acres) - A win/win situation for both parties.
Let's be honest, Mcevoy was not a ruckmen, had little physicality and is at his best taking marks at our backline.. yes, our backline.

4. Wanted to trade Pick 1 for multiple first round picks - it fell through at the end because what was offered... If it was pick #4, #7 for our #1, #21, then I agree it's not a convincing enough offer to take.

Now letting favourite sons Goddard, Dal Santo is always going to pee off some supporters.. no matter what the rationale is... so we know why Pelchen is much hated by some on here.. but i would think it's more to do with his role/the state of our club/strategic vision, rather than Pelchen it's self. I would think somone else in the same role would made similar decisions...

Now we've made the hard decisions... (list management, salary cap wise), the club wanted to install someone to fast track the football side of things e.g. development, performance etc, it make sense for Pelchen who is a primarily a list manager/strategist to step aside. I'm not saying Pelchen is saint, and I'm sure he would have upset a lot of people inside the club with some of his decisions.. but i think some of the criticism here towards Pelchen is a little unwarranted..

In summary, Pelchen is neither a villain, or a saviour.. He took a tough job at our club in time of decline/crisis (poor list, player development, salary cap), and I for one think he did a tough job well.

End of rant.

Amen....you make a lot of sense.

contrary to others...don't agree with some of your post


he didn't get along with others.....reason lyon left....watters too in a round about way,......in the end his inability to communicate well with others cost him his job....before it was finished.....we offered bj the same amount of money ...but for some perverse reason less years....so cost us bj...don't blame pp.........mcevoy was on his plus side......but dal was a disaster......we got sfa for him...would have got delaney anyway.........piss poor decision.........stanley...according to some in the know was traded mainly as an afterthought.,......as the club states they weren't going to do that......has the potential to really bite us on the arse......pick 21 will have to be chosen wisely......he was so obsessed with numbers of early draft picks rather than the quality of those picks.....probably had to be restrained from giving in to gws.......drafting, saad, milers and tdl were disasters and will come back to haunt us......we could have recruited some decent kids.....

....overall he was a miserable failure who spit before his job was completd...thankfully......we probably would have folded if he has spent to many more years at the club......hate to say it...but nixon is right...

Yep we should have kept them all Stinger and finished 16th this year and 18th in about 3 years time and then still have a 7 year rebuild. It would be even longer than this rebuild because we wouldn't get anything for any of those players if they stayed. All it would have done is slow our rebuild. Don't you even slightly get that. Maybe write a letter to the club.

[falka]

Whether you love him or loath him, I think we can all agree that Chris Pelchen is figure that generates much debate...
I'll argue this is mainly because his role as a list manager/head of football, is someone who's responsible for sacking and recruiting at a normal company
tough and contraversial gig? I would think so.

Let's look at his time at St Kilda.

Chris Pelchen officially joined the saints in August 2011.
- We have just lost coach Ross Lyon to Fremantle at the end of the season
- The club's salary cap is maxed out.. understandablly after a successful 2009/2010 campaign
- The club list talent bar a number of stars is poor.. understandablly because of poor recruiting resource and lack of focus on development under Lyon
- The club is in decline, end of an era according to Ross Lyon.

Was Chris the right person for the job to rebuild St Kilda under the circumstances?
- He did help Port Adelaide/Hawthorn to build their list, and look at them.
- We need some help urgently to re-build the list, re-balance salary cap, look for a new coach etc.
- So, with his expertise/background, I would say he is the right person for the job.

Let's look at his controversial recruiting decisions during his time.
1. Brendan Goddard leaving at the end of 2012 - Goddard is offered more money, and more success at Essendon, with our salary cap situation, regrettably we had no choice but to let him go. Note this is the first year of the free agency era, players has now more power than ever.. case in point Griffen.

2. Nick Dal Santo - Again, Nick was let go. He was 29 and is offered more opportunity and money by North Melbourne. The club had a strategy to re-balance salary cap, so again regrettablly let Nick go.

3. Ben Mcevoy to Hawthorn for Pick 18 (Dunstan), Savage and pick upgrade (19 from 24 which allowed us to get Blake Acres) - A win/win situation for both parties.
Let's be honest, Mcevoy was not a ruckmen, had little physicality and is at his best taking marks at our backline.. yes, our backline.

4. Wanted to trade Pick 1 for multiple first round picks - it fell through at the end because what was offered... If it was pick #4, #7 for our #1, #21, then I agree it's not a convincing enough offer to take.

Now letting favourite sons Goddard, Dal Santo is always going to pee off some supporters.. no matter what the rationale is... so we know why Pelchen is much hated by some on here.. but i would think it's more to do with his role/the state of our club/strategic vision, rather than Pelchen it's self. I would think somone else in the same role would made similar decisions...

Now we've made the hard decisions... (list management, salary cap wise), the club wanted to install someone to fast track the football side of things e.g. development, performance etc, it make sense for Pelchen who is a primarily a list manager/strategist to step aside. I'm not saying Pelchen is saint, and I'm sure he would have upset a lot of people inside the club with some of his decisions.. but i think some of the criticism here towards Pelchen is a little unwarranted..

In summary, Pelchen is neither a villain, or a saviour.. He took a tough job at our club in time of decline/crisis (poor list, player development, salary cap), and I for one think he did a tough job well.

End of rant.

Amen....you make a lot of sense.

contrary to others...don't agree with some of your post


he didn't get along with others.....reason lyon left....watters too in a round about way,......in the end his inability to communicate well with others cost him his job....before it was finished.....we offered bj the same amount of money ...but for some perverse reason less years....so cost us bj...don't blame pp.........mcevoy was on his plus side......but dal was a disaster......we got sfa for him...would have got delaney anyway.........piss poor decision.........stanley...according to some in the know was traded mainly as an afterthought.,......as the club states they weren't going to do that......has the potential to really bite us on the arse......pick 21 will have to be chosen wisely......he was so obsessed with numbers of early draft picks rather than the quality of those picks.....probably had to be restrained from giving in to gws.......drafting, saad, milers and tdl were disasters and will come back to haunt us......we could have recruited some decent kids.....

....overall he was a miserable failure who spit before his job was completd...thankfully......we probably would have folded if he has spent to many more years at the club......hate to say it...but nixon is right...

Saad and Milera cost us 5 positions in the draft, probably would have taken Seb Ross at 20 instead of 25 and unless Chris was giving Saad the energy drinks, was not a bad move.
TDL well we all know that Watters would have had his say on that.
Pelchin was not our recruiter either, do people know Elshaug????

[dragit]

Yep we should have kept them all Stinger and finished 16th this year and 18th in about 3 years time and then still have a 7 year rebuild. It would be even longer than this rebuild because we wouldn't get anything for any of those players if they stayed. All it would have done is slow our rebuild. Don't you even slightly get that. Maybe write a letter to the club.

Amen pluggs… while you never liked Pelchen or some of his moves, at least you can appreciate where we are at and how that means that we couldn't just add a player or two each year.

Slowly descending the ladder with an aging list was going to be more disastrous than our current hastened fall, at least we have some potentially elite young talent on the list now, which we wouldn't have had we kept all of those players.

[stinger]

Yep we should have kept them all Stinger and finished 16th this year and 18th in about 3 years time and then still have a 7 year rebuild. It would be even longer than this rebuild because we wouldn't get anything for any of those players if they stayed. All it would have done is slow our rebuild. Don't you even slightly get that. Maybe write a letter to the club.

Amen pluggs… while you never liked Pelchen or some of his moves, at least you can appreciate where we are at and how that means that we couldn't just add a player or two each year.

Slowly descending the ladder with an aging list was going to be more disastrous than our current hastened fall, at least we have some potentially elite young talent on the list now, which we wouldn't have had we kept all of those players.

just what did we get??????....billy longer for our compensation pick for dal...but we also gave them(lions) our pick 41



we got pick 20 for bj ....we wasted that on milera and saad...we also got a downgraded pick 25 which we used to pick up seb ross.....


haven't got anything for stanley yet...except a pig in a poke at pick 21......

...so don't talk rubbish....


i love seb...but seb and billy ain't no bj or dal...and never will be...


...and i disliked the pelican right from the start...have always said so too....

[dragit]

Yep we should have kept them all Stinger and finished 16th this year and 18th in about 3 years time and then still have a 7 year rebuild. It would be even longer than this rebuild because we wouldn't get anything for any of those players if they stayed. All it would have done is slow our rebuild. Don't you even slightly get that. Maybe write a letter to the club.

Amen pluggs… while you never liked Pelchen or some of his moves, at least you can appreciate where we are at and how that means that we couldn't just add a player or two each year.

Slowly descending the ladder with an aging list was going to be more disastrous than our current hastened fall, at least we have some potentially elite young talent on the list now, which we wouldn't have had we kept all of those players.

just what did we get??????....billy longer for our compensation pick for dal...but we also gave them(lions) our pick 41



we got pick 20 for bj ....we wasted that on milera and saad...we also got a downgraded pick 25 which we used to pick up seb ross.....


haven't got anything for stanley yet...except a pig in a poke at pick 21......

...so don't talk rubbish....


i love seb...but seb and billy ain't no bj or dal...and never will be...


...and i disliked the pelican right from the start...have always said so too....

Yep pick 20 for BJ, and I'm the one talking rubbish.

Luckily the people that make decisions for the club aren't as sentimental & deranged as yourself.

[The OtherThommo]

Whether you love him or loath him, I think we can all agree that Chris Pelchen is figure that generates much debate...
I'll argue this is mainly because his role as a list manager/head of football, is someone who's responsible for sacking and recruiting at a normal company
tough and contraversial gig? I would think so.

Let's look at his time at St Kilda.

Chris Pelchen officially joined the saints in August 2011.
- We have just lost coach Ross Lyon to Fremantle at the end of the season
- The club's salary cap is maxed out.. understandablly after a successful 2009/2010 campaign
- The club list talent bar a number of stars is poor.. understandablly because of poor recruiting resource and lack of focus on development under Lyon
- The club is in decline, end of an era according to Ross Lyon.

Was Chris the right person for the job to rebuild St Kilda under the circumstances?
- He did help Port Adelaide/Hawthorn to build their list, and look at them.
- We need some help urgently to re-build the list, re-balance salary cap, look for a new coach etc.
- So, with his expertise/background, I would say he is the right person for the job.

Let's look at his controversial recruiting decisions during his time.
1. Brendan Goddard leaving at the end of 2012 - Goddard is offered more money, and more success at Essendon, with our salary cap situation, regrettably we had no choice but to let him go. Note this is the first year of the free agency era, players has now more power than ever.. case in point Griffen.

2. Nick Dal Santo - Again, Nick was let go. He was 29 and is offered more opportunity and money by North Melbourne. The club had a strategy to re-balance salary cap, so again regrettablly let Nick go.

3. Ben Mcevoy to Hawthorn for Pick 18 (Dunstan), Savage and pick upgrade (19 from 24 which allowed us to get Blake Acres) - A win/win situation for both parties.
Let's be honest, Mcevoy was not a ruckmen, had little physicality and is at his best taking marks at our backline.. yes, our backline.

4. Wanted to trade Pick 1 for multiple first round picks - it fell through at the end because what was offered... If it was pick #4, #7 for our #1, #21, then I agree it's not a convincing enough offer to take.

Now letting favourite sons Goddard, Dal Santo is always going to pee off some supporters.. no matter what the rationale is... so we know why Pelchen is much hated by some on here.. but i would think it's more to do with his role/the state of our club/strategic vision, rather than Pelchen it's self. I would think somone else in the same role would made similar decisions...

Now we've made the hard decisions... (list management, salary cap wise), the club wanted to install someone to fast track the football side of things e.g. development, performance etc, it make sense for Pelchen who is a primarily a list manager/strategist to step aside. I'm not saying Pelchen is saint, and I'm sure he would have upset a lot of people inside the club with some of his decisions.. but i think some of the criticism here towards Pelchen is a little unwarranted..

In summary, Pelchen is neither a villain, or a saviour.. He took a tough job at our club in time of decline/crisis (poor list, player development, salary cap), and I for one think he did a tough job well.

End of rant.

Amen....you make a lot of sense.

contrary to others...don't agree with some of your post


he didn't get along with others.....reason lyon left....watters too in a round about way,......in the end his inability to communicate well with others cost him his job....before it was finished.....we offered bj the same amount of money ...but for some perverse reason less years....so cost us bj...don't blame pp.........mcevoy was on his plus side......but dal was a disaster......we got sfa for him...would have got delaney anyway.........piss poor decision.........stanley...according to some in the know was traded mainly as an afterthought.,......as the club states they weren't going to do that......has the potential to really bite us on the arse......pick 21 will have to be chosen wisely......he was so obsessed with numbers of early draft picks rather than the quality of those picks.....probably had to be restrained from giving in to gws.......drafting, saad, milers and tdl were disasters and will come back to haunt us......we could have recruited some decent kids.....

....overall he was a miserable failure who spit before his job was completd...thankfully......we probably would have folded if he has spent to many more years at the club......hate to say it...but nixon is right...

Blimey Sting, not the Lyon line again. I'll repeat what I've said numerous times - Pelchen had nothing to do with Lyon leaving.

Lyon left for money, pure and simple. He'd burnt the family fortune by succumbing to spivs in his time at Sin City....then, along came the GFC. Leverage cost him the lot, mostly on a speccy mining company. For a period when he came to coach us he and the family had to live with parents (can't recall if it was his or her parents).

Freo found out and offered him a massively front ended contract. He took it, and he didn't even bother to tell his manager (who, as I recall from an article by Nathan Burke, was sitting and negotiating with us in a cafe in Seaford, only to get a call from Lyon to tell him he'd gone to Fremantle).

Pelchen had Jackshyte to do with Lyon leaving. I also tend to think it was probably Lyon's clout that overruled others and led to us swapping a teens draft pick for Lovett.

And, in the pantheon of stuffed up list management by our footy club, that's hard to beat.

[saintsRrising]

Good OP.

[stinger]

it was his in laws garage..i hear what you are saying tot...but lyon didn't like someone else coming in over the top f him...that;s according to roos...not saying the other factors didn't come into it....not shure what tipped the scales exactly..not that i'm sorry lyon left......

[BakesFan]

I see it from somewhere between London Saint's summation and stinger's P.O.V......... and I'm very grateful to both posters for airing their views....

..thank you, gentlemen.

[Rosco]

Yep we should have kept them all Stinger and finished 16th this year and 18th in about 3 years time and then still have a 7 year rebuild. It would be even longer than this rebuild because we wouldn't get anything for any of those players if they stayed. All it would have done is slow our rebuild. Don't you even slightly get that. Maybe write a letter to the club.

Amen pluggs… while you never liked Pelchen or some of his moves, at least you can appreciate where we are at and how that means that we couldn't just add a player or two each year.

Slowly descending the ladder with an aging list was going to be more disastrous than our current hastened fall, at least we have some potentially elite young talent on the list now, which we wouldn't have had we kept all of those players.

just what did we get??????....billy longer for our compensation pick for dal...but we also gave them(lions) our pick 41



we got pick 20 for bj ....we wasted that on milera and saad...we also got a downgraded pick 25 which we used to pick up seb ross.....

For dal we got 25, which we traded with 41 to get Longer AND pick 48 which we used to get Bruce. Facts matter.

The BJ compo was 12, was "wasted" on Lee & 24 (Nate Wright) & 45 (ended up being Saunders via another trade), not the mosquitos

But you are correct that none of the above are Dal or BJ.

[bergholt]

Have a look at his net results.

Basically he was left with a basket case list to build from. When he joined us in 2011 we had the oldest, most experienced list in the comp. Next year we'll be right down the bottom on both measures. Someone had to make that happen.

Look at the guys he delisted or retired:

Delisted:
Cahill, Clarke, Crocker, Gamble, Gram, Heyne, Johnson, Jones, Ledger, Peake, Polo, A Smith, Winmar, Andreoli (r), Archer (r), Ferguson (r)
(also Dennis-Lane, Dunell, Lever, Milera, Saad, Staley (r) who were picked up during his reign)
Retired:
Baker, Blake, Eddy, Gardiner, Hayes, Koschitzke, McQualter, Milne (also Maister who was picked up during his reign)

Obviously a few stars at the end of their careers but mostly spuds who were on the list before he arrived at the club. There's probably 20 guys there who are the right age to still be on our list if they were any good. They're not and that's not Pelchen's fault. He had a lot of work to do.

That said, he lost others as well:

Free Agents: Dal Santo, Goddard, Gwilt
Traded Out: Cripps, Lynch, McEvoy, Stanley, Walsh
Lost: Dawson

A lot more quality there. The argument against Pelchen is that he didn't get full value for these guys. I'm not sure I agree with that but there's certainly a case to be made. So the question is who did he get in return?

Traded In: Bruce, Delaney, Hickey, Lee, Longer, Savage (also Dennis-Lane, Milera, Saad who are gone)
Free Agent: Roberton

There are seven guys here who have every chance of being mainstays of the club for a period. Yes, Roberton had a disappointing season and Lee is very much at the crossroads. But one way or another there's some talent here. Probably no superstars though. Hopefully the stars are here:

Drafted - top 25:
pick 1 2014, Billings (3), Dunstan (18), Acres (19), pick 21 2014, pick 22 2014, Wright (24), Ross (25), White (25)
Drafted - later:
Markworth (35), Newnes (37), Murdoch (40), pick 41 2014, Webster (42), Saunders (43), Pierce (75) (also Lever (60), Maister (68) who are gone)
Drafted - rookies:
Shenton (r), Minchington (r), Templeton (r), Weller (r), Holmes (r) (also Dunell (r), Staley (r) who are gone)

Obviously some good/very good players, a bunch who the jury's still out on. Only a couple of potential stars. So it's really going to come down seriously to picks 1, 21 and 22 this time around. If we get Rising Star nominations from two of them next year (like this year) then the picture will look pretty rosy.


Look, it's way too early to judge. In five years we'll know a lot more, in ten we'll know everything. But right now there are some serious unknowns. If you don't rate Lee and Murdoch and Hickey etc then obviously you're feeling like Pelchen did a terrible job. If you do rate our kids and think they can be very good players then you do. I don't reckon either position is really rational - we just don't know enough yet.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Pelchen on SEN said we were spending 111% of our SC when he arrived in 2011.

The list was "in decay" and 'tough decisions had to be made"

We were in a world of SC pain and our window was slammed shut.

What other possible course was there to as quickly as possible get a list that was capable of competing?

Pelchan also said the Saints list was within 5% of where the Hawthorn list was in 2004.

Said to expect pain for 12-18 months and a reasonable expectation to be a finals contender in 2017.

Without losing those STAR and GREAT Saints players, we could not possibly have the cap relief we now have where we can target players in the next seasons trade time.

So for everyone critisising the strategy to get the SC down and get the team competitive, could you please give us your alternative plan?

Oh BTW was refreshing to hear an ex employee be fulsome in praise of the club and its direction, gives us some insight on the SC problems and remedies, also how the STKFC is in the top third for football spend in the league and how it has now got 4 FT development coaches and 4 FT recruiters.

Good to hear positive news from someone from the coalface.

[philtee]

Thanks for the report Bunk.
Was a bit shocked to hear of The Pelch's departure, thinking he was the long-term guiding hand
behind the recruiting and coaching ethos to take us into a bold new era.
Guess it doesn't happen that way anymore !
Looks like the torch is being carried forward by Richo, Bains, Finnis, Summers etc.

[Mr Magic]

Also, if he is to be believed, it would seem that Carlton were telling lies in saying they didn't approach him.
When asked about a possible role at Carlton he categorically stated that Carlton approached him some 6-8 weeks ago and he knocked back any interest.

[FQF]

Have a look at his net results.

Basically he was left with a basket case list to build from. When he joined us in 2011 we had the oldest, most experienced list in the comp. Next year we'll be right down the bottom on both measures. Someone had to make that happen.

Look at the guys he delisted or retired:

Delisted:
Cahill, Clarke, Crocker, Gamble, Gram, Heyne, Johnson, Jones, Ledger, Peake, Polo, A Smith, Winmar, Andreoli (r), Archer (r), Ferguson (r)
(also Dennis-Lane, Dunell, Lever, Milera, Saad, Staley (r) who were picked up during his reign)
Retired:
Baker, Blake, Eddy, Gardiner, Hayes, Koschitzke, McQualter, Milne (also Maister who was picked up during his reign)

Obviously a few stars at the end of their careers but mostly spuds who were on the list before he arrived at the club. There's probably 20 guys there who are the right age to still be on our list if they were any good. They're not and that's not Pelchen's fault. He had a lot of work to do.

That said, he lost others as well:

Free Agents: Dal Santo, Goddard, Gwilt
Traded Out: Cripps, Lynch, McEvoy, Stanley, Walsh
Lost: Dawson

A lot more quality there. The argument against Pelchen is that he didn't get full value for these guys. I'm not sure I agree with that but there's certainly a case to be made. So the question is who did he get in return?

Traded In: Bruce, Delaney, Hickey, Lee, Longer, Savage (also Dennis-Lane, Milera, Saad who are gone)
Free Agent: Roberton

There are seven guys here who have every chance of being mainstays of the club for a period. Yes, Roberton had a disappointing season and Lee is very much at the crossroads. But one way or another there's some talent here. Probably no superstars though. Hopefully the stars are here:

Drafted - top 25:
pick 1 2014, Billings (3), Dunstan (18), Acres (19), pick 21 2014, pick 22 2014, Wright (24), Ross (25), White (25)
Drafted - later:
Markworth (35), Newnes (37), Murdoch (40), pick 41 2014, Webster (42), Saunders (43), Pierce (75) (also Lever (60), Maister (68) who are gone)
Drafted - rookies:
Shenton (r), Minchington (r), Templeton (r), Weller (r), Holmes (r) (also Dunell (r), Staley (r) who are gone)

Obviously some good/very good players, a bunch who the jury's still out on. Only a couple of potential stars. So it's really going to come down seriously to picks 1, 21 and 22 this time around. If we get Rising Star nominations from two of them next year (like this year) then the picture will look pretty rosy.


Look, it's way too early to judge. In five years we'll know a lot more, in ten we'll know everything. But right now there are some serious unknowns. If you don't rate Lee and Murdoch and Hickey etc then obviously you're feeling like Pelchen did a terrible job. If you do rate our kids and think they can be very good players then you do. I don't reckon either position is really rational - we just don't know enough yet.

This is excellent- the most thorough overview of the Pelchen era on record I would say.

[The OtherThommo]

Indeed it is, F.