Who plays Stanley's role now?

[gringo]

Pierce has the best around the game from what I've seen but not at senior level and Hickey has looked good at times.

Do you honestly think either could play 70% forward though. I reckon they just use a pinch hitter.

Not right now but Pierce probably capable in the future if he can get his junior form and VFL form into the seniors. I think Rhys will be missed but I'm trying to think of what they are imagining. I know you hate highlights packages but watch his junior reel. He has a really good marking and tap work and looks at home up forward. Bruce is apparently a forward in Richo's eyes so maybe he can take over to give a rest to the main ruck.

[plugger66]

Pierce has the best around the game from what I've seen but not at senior level and Hickey has looked good at times.

Do you honestly think either could play 70% forward though. I reckon they just use a pinch hitter.

Not right now but Pierce probably capable in the future if he can get his junior form and VFL form into the seniors. I think Rhys will be missed but I'm trying to think of what they are imagining. I know you hate highlights packages but watch his junior reel. He has a really good marking and tap work and looks at home up forward. Bruce is apparently a forward in Richo's eyes so maybe he can take over to give a rest to the main ruck.

I think it will be Bruce as well. No idea what happens to these rucks if we don't injuries. Cant see one or two of them being with us after 2015.

[saintsRrising]

Now that Rhys is gone, who will take his place? Thoughts?

Realistically for 2015 = no one, well not as a true ruck/forward.

Our ruckman are not capable of playing 70% as forwards. Pierce shows promise, but his body is not ready for it.

Bruce will possibly have to act as relief ruck due the fact that we virtually have no one else!

The other alternative is playing two ruckmen, but that then is a real handicap. Longer in particular has been lacking in his around the ground work.

Holmes? Well is ruckwork has shown promise, but his around the ground work is a long way off.

I suspect that the Saints will go for 2 ruckmen, but that is not a viable long term solution unless two rucks radically improve their forward game.

[Dis Believer]

Would it be nasty to nominate the inanimate carbon rod ???

[White Winmar]

Would it be nasty to nominate the inanimate carbon rod ???

Not at the moment. As the saying goes, "in Rod we trust"!

[BackFromUSA]

My vote is Pierce. Can ruck. Can play forward.

A year early due to his body but see how he goes.

[Sobraz]

Is the OP question in regard to the AFL or VFL?

[bergholt]

Goes without saying that they are very different players and Hickey will never be a good lead up forward (will Stanley?) but if Hickey can rest forward and crash some packs, take 1-2 marks a game and kick 1 goal a game then I would think he has having just as much impact.

If Hickey kicks a goal a game as a ruckman he'll be a superstar. Only three guys in the entire comp this year averaged a goal and more than 10 hitouts a game:

Paddy Ryder (ranked 13th for hitouts)
David Hale (ranked 32nd for hitouts)
Scott Lycett (ranked 35th for hitouts)

Rhys was just behind with 1.0 goals per game and 7.8 hitouts, ranked 39th. There are very few players in the comp who can kick goals and win their share of ruck contests. I'm not sure Hickey is going to be one of them.

[bergholt]

If ruck-forwards are so crucial then every team must have one. Let's have a look:

30+ hitouts per game

Sandilands: 39 + 8 goals total
Goldstein: 35 + 10
Jacobs: 35 + 7
Jamar: 32 + 7
Lobbe: 31 + 6
Minson: 36 + 4
Mumford: 36 + 4
Warnock: 34 + 4

These guys ruck all day and don't kick heaps of goals.

20-30 hitouts per game

Ryder: 26 + 20
Naitanui: 22 + 9
Cox: 24 + 8
Giles: 24 + 7
McIntosh: 20 + 7
McEvoy: 21 + 6
Maric: 25 + 5
Derickx: 20 + 5
West: 24 + 4
Pyke: 28 + 3
Hickey: 24 + 3
Simpson: 22 + 3
Wood: 24 + 2
Smith: 23 + 2
Hampson: 29 + 1
Martin: 28 + 1
Longer: 26 + 1
Spencer: 29 + 0
Leuenberger: 23 + 0
Nicholls: 21 + 0

These guys are true rucks who often change forward. Ryder head and shoulders above the rest as the only true ruck-forward. No-one else kicked more than 10 goals for the year.

10-20 hitouts per game

Hale: 16 + 22
Lycett: 14 + 13
Clarke: 12 + 12
Ceglar: 19 + 8
Witts: 19 + 8
Gawn: 15 + 4
Campbell: 10 + 4
Grundy: 18 + 3
Bellchambers: 15 + 3

These guys don't get enough hitouts to be considered true rucks - or maybe they're just not very good at it. Hale obviously is a true forward-ruck now, Lycett and Clarke can legitimately claim that as well.

less than 10 hitouts per game

Tippett: 6 + 34
Dixon: 5 + 24
Vickery: 7 + 23
White: 6 + 20
Day: 5 + 19
Stanley: 8 + 18
Casboult: 7 + 15
Griffiths: 8 + 12
Daw: 7 + 6
Blicavs: 9 + 5
Trengove: 5 + 1

Mostly forwards who wander into the ruck sometimes. This is the only place you see solid numbers of goals being kicked, but obviously very few hitouts.


I reckon there's about one ruck-forward in the entire AFL, maybe a few more true forward-rucks. Most of the guys who can kick goals can't get their hands on it in the ruck - or at least don't get more than a few minutes a quarter to do so.

Most likely we'll play two rucks and hope that Hickey or Longer do as well as Giles or Ceglar or Witts - kicking 8 or 10 goals for the year would be a win for either of them. Doesn't seem that likely though.

[spert]

Well if the club thought Stanley was any good, or had any more improvement in him, they would have kept him no doubt. I think he is a neither here nor there kind of player, and although his marking stats are solid, he has little influence on a game that we might expect from an athletic 200cm player who has been in the system a few years now.

[bigcarl]

Ruck/forwards are overrated imo. Give me a proper spearhead any day rather than a player who can do neither role well.

We'll have to find someone who can pinch hit in the ruck to give the No. 1 ruck a rest from time to time

[bigred]

I expect to see Holmesy having a run in the seniors before too long. Looking forward to it.

I actually think this could be quite likely.

Got a long way to go though.

[Con Gorozidis]

Ruck/forwards are overrated imo. Give me a proper spearhead any day rather than a player who can do neither role well.

We'll have to find someone who can pinch hit in the ruck to give the No. 1 ruck a rest from time to time

Not a bad point.
If Rooey, Lee, Membrey and Spencer manage 150 + goals between them next season we probably wouldnt give two hoots which ruckman is loitering in the fwd line..

[SainterK]

Ruck/forwards are overrated imo. Give me a proper spearhead any day rather than a player who can do neither role well.

We'll have to find someone who can pinch hit in the ruck to give the No. 1 ruck a rest from time to time

Fair point Carl...

[ace]

I hope no-one plays the Stanley role.

We don't need another player weakly contesting marks in the forward line and weakly playing second ruckman.

[Con Gorozidis]

Ruck/forwards are overrated imo. Give me a proper spearhead any day rather than a player who can do neither role well.

We'll have to find someone who can pinch hit in the ruck to give the No. 1 ruck a rest from time to time

Fair point Carl...

So K - is it now ok to discuss the infamous 'head wobble' ?

[saintsRrising]

Ruck/forwards are overrated imo. Give me a proper spearhead any day rather than a player who can do neither role well.

Point is though that it is not an either/or.
1/ You need both. If you play 2 rucks, it means your midfield group will get less rotations.
and 2/ we do not actually have at present a "proper spearhead" apart from the aging Roo. Bruce, White and Lee all look at present to be second or third forwards rather than a "proper" spearhead.

PA now they have Ryder have been rated a bigger premiership threat for 2015.
Hales was an inspired pick up by the Hawks. While it might be nice if your ruck/forward was a star they do not need to be. They just need to be useful. As much as we collectively complained about Kosi, it added great balance to the side. The Hawks too have been assisted enormously by Roughead's versatility to play ruck and even midfield....though Roughead is a superstar!

Now we are not contenders in 2015, and our biggest need at present is our midfield. So I am happy that our No1 pick is a HF/mid.

The Stanley move would be deemed acceptable not for what we need in 2015, but as a stepping stone for what we need in 2017 and beyond.
We are in rebuild mode, and so playing saying two rucks will not be the biggest problem that we have.

To improve we do need to make bold decisions. They may, or may not work, but if we just drift along oblivion beckons.

[saintsRrising]

Will be interesting to see if Reece replaces Rhys on the list....

[saintsRrising]

I hope no-one plays the Stanley role.

We don't need another player weakly contesting marks in the forward line and weakly playing second ruckman.

Well lets hope the more physically assertive Longer can lift his average marks from 1 per game then....

[Gershwin]

He kicked 18 goals in 19 games and we are worried about who replaces him!

Give Hickey, Longer, Pierce and Holmes specific development in the forward role and they will adequately cover him. Personally I think Holmes will be the one. His rate of improvement is amazing.

[samuraisaint]

He kicked 18 goals in 19 games and we are worried about who replaces him!

Give Hickey, Longer, Pierce and Holmes specific development in the forward role and they will adequately cover him. Personally I think Holmes will be the one. His rate of improvement is amazing.

and 4 of those goals came in our 10 goal win over Freo meaning that that stats actually flatters him.
Good luck to him at the Cats though, I hope he does well.

[plugger66]

He kicked 18 goals in 19 games and we are worried about who replaces him!

Give Hickey, Longer, Pierce and Holmes specific development in the forward role and they will adequately cover him. Personally I think Holmes will be the one. His rate of improvement is amazing.

It sounds easy to kick a goal a game but it isn't that simple. By the way how many goals did Holmes kick this year in a much weaker competition? It doesn't magically happen in AFL if they cant do it at the VFL level. Same with Pierce. Doubt he averages close to a goal a game in a weaker competition. Our options suggest a pinch hitter but some will be tried in pre season. Hopefully one of our ruckman show something as a 70% forward and a 30% ruckman. Cant see it though.

[Gershwin]

He kicked 18 goals in 19 games and we are worried about who replaces him!

Give Hickey, Longer, Pierce and Holmes specific development in the forward role and they will adequately cover him. Personally I think Holmes will be the one. His rate of improvement is amazing.

It sounds easy to kick a goal a game but it isn't that simple. By the way how many goals did Holmes kick this year in a much weaker competition? It doesn't magically happen in AFL if they cant do it at the VFL level. Same with Pierce. Doubt he averages close to a goal a game in a weaker competition. Our options suggest a pinch hitter but some will be tried in pre season. Hopefully one of our ruckman show something as a 70% forward and a 30% ruckman. Cant see it though.

I'm looking at improvement from Holmes. I think he can be a better player than Stanley. Time will tell.

[SainterK]

Ruck/forwards are overrated imo. Give me a proper spearhead any day rather than a player who can do neither role well.

We'll have to find someone who can pinch hit in the ruck to give the No. 1 ruck a rest from time to time

Fair point Carl...

So K - is it now ok to discuss the infamous 'head wobble' ?

I wouldn't dare Con...

[Armagizmo]

Let's be realistic, a piece of toast or a concussed duckling could play Rhys Stanley's role.