Caleb Daniel

[plugger66]

What that list shows us is we have no outside runners or pace. Petracca better provide that or he isn't the one we want. We are far to inside and slow and nothing is going to fix that in the short term.

That list was supposed to show our inside/grunt players.

For that reason it doesn't include Steven, Eli, Billings.. Agreed it needs to be added to, but there is some there...

Yes I got that but the problem is it is about 7 inside to 3 outside and 2 of them haven't really played on the ball yet. I heard Pelchen today on SEN and I doubt we would go after Daniel. In isolation he said a player of that height is fine but we have many near that height like Steven, Templeton, Minch, TC, Geary. Acres is our only potential tallish mid.[/quote]

Of our potential midfielders we have:
Ross: 187cm
Webster: 188cm
Acres: 190cm
Markworth: 189cm
Murdoch: 187
to put that in perspective they're all about the same height as Josh Kennedy from the Swans.

Height isn't a problem we need outside run, of all the mids we have only really Steven, Webster, Eli, Markworth and Saunders provide that so if Caleb brings some run and carrythen he would be an asset.[/quote]


Potential is a big word. At the moment be have Ross as the only guy over 184cm. We are small and slow. I'm just going by what Pelchen said today. I reckon he would know a little more than both of us.

[Dave McNamara]

I didn't bother looking at the video coz of Caleb's height. But eventually I did look anyway.

Gotta' say, Caleb's highlights package is as good as any I've seen... bar none!

As people have pointed out, if taller, he'd be rated in the draft's top few.

I now reckon he could make an impact. I'd like to see him up against adult bodies to be sure, but gee, he looks good! Not sure he'll make it through to the rookie draft (I'd grab him for sure there), but I'd be very happy if we used a pick from mid-30's upwards on him.

Lookin' at our list's options for mid-field size/muscle we'd have...
Petracca (I bloody well hope so anyway),
Armo' (I'd want some club to pay significant overs for us to give him up, very underrated IMHO),
Dunstan,
Acres,
Weller,
Curren,
Minch,
Geary,
+ ?,
so I'm not worried that we'll get pushed around.

I hope we can get Caleb.

What that list shows us is we have no outside runners or pace. Petracca better provide that or he isn't the one we want. We are far to inside and slow and nothing is going to fix that in the short term.

That list was supposed to show our inside/grunt players.

For that reason it doesn't include Steven, Eli, Billings.. Agreed it needs to be added to, but there is some there...

Yes I got that but the problem is it is about 7 inside to 3 outside and 2 of them haven't really played on the ball yet. I heard Pelchen today on SEN and I doubt we would go after Daniel. In isolation he said a player of that height is fine but we have many near that height like Steven, Templeton, Minch, TC, Geary. Acres is our only potential tallish mid.

Of our potential midfielders we have:
Ross: 187cm
Webster: 188cm
Acres: 190cm
Markworth: 189cm
Murdoch: 187
to put that in perspective they're all about the same height as Josh Kennedy from the Swans.

Height isn't a problem we need outside run, of all the mids we have only really Steven, Webster, Eli, Markworth and Saunders provide that so if Caleb brings some run and carrythen he would be an asset.

Thanks Sobraz and BBMD. I knew that I had missed a few blokes who can play inside.

Yes, my intention was to list blokes with grunt who won't let someone the size of Caleb be pushed around in the GFs that we'll start playing in from towards the end of this decade.

As for speed...
Jack(!)
Webster, Wright and Markworth are also pretty damn quick. Add (I bloody well hope) Petracca and (possibly) Caleb Daniel.
Acres too. (I think?)
2015 PSD/PA - a Sloan-type ain't slow.
2015 draft is an opportunity to pick up some more elite talent who can also run fast. (Note, elite talent is the primary criterium, running fast is the bonus.)
Eli, Minch, Curren are also pretty fast.

Billings isn't a racehorse, but isn't as slow as we initially though either.
Same goes for Mav. Whatever pace he has or hasn't got, it's been enough for him to be a bloody good tagger in 2014.
Dunstan, Murdoch and Ross (especially Seb) are the only blokes who aren't quick.

Moving away from the mid field... Spencer, Rhys (at least in a straight line), Bruce and Gilbert are quick.


So all in all, we are setting up well, and IMHO I don't see pace as the issue that many fear it to be.

[damienc]

This is a great thread by the way. Thanks for starting it.

[andrewg]

He looks very small but might be the reason he gets to pick 19...

[footynut]

Due to his size he should slip through to our third round selection, and prove to be real bargin

[bergholt]

Looks like he was equal first in the beep test at the combine, did a 16.1 along with Jack Hiscox. That's equal with Brad Hill and a bit behind Hartung's record of 16.6.

On the other side of the coin, did a 3.00 second 20m sprint, which was only 0.01 seconds ahead of Sam Durdin and Tom Read who are literally a foot taller. Looks like his strength is endurance, and of course finding the footy.

[bergholt]

Not really fair to stand him next to a 7 foot American:

[Rosco]

Looks like he was equal first in the beep test at the combine, did a 16.1 along with Jack Hiscox. That's equal with Brad Hill and a bit behind Hartung's record of 16.6.

On the other side of the coin, did a 3.00 second 20m sprint, which was only 0.01 seconds ahead of Sam Durdin and Tom Read who are literally a foot taller. Looks like his strength is endurance, and of course finding the footy.

I reckon his short legs wouldn't help with the 20 m sprint, loses a metre on the first 3 steps

[saintbrat]

and some idea of what teams look at ( or the saints did) when viewing his suitability for AFL

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2014-10- ... ive-access



golly he is short isn't he

[saintbrat]

and Combine review n AFL.com.au
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-03/c ... -beep-test

[bergholt]

and some idea of what teams look at ( or the saints did) when viewing his suitability for AFL

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2014-10- ... ive-access

Based on that footage we're evaluating him as a small forward, effectively taking over the Schneider role. That feels like it's a bit limiting for a guy with the potential to get the footy 30 times a game.

Might not matter. I also get the feeling Pelchen will use his veto. The kid is just too short.

[ace]

Danger of being a rag doll.
There are thugs in the AFL who just love throwing dwarfs.

[FQF]

He is extremely short but wow is his footage impressive - the guy is a dynamo.

[ace]

Looks like he was equal first in the beep test at the combine, did a 16.1 along with Jack Hiscox. That's equal with Brad Hill and a bit behind Hartung's record of 16.6.

On the other side of the coin, did a 3.00 second 20m sprint, which was only 0.01 seconds ahead of Sam Durdin and Tom Read who are literally a foot taller. Looks like his strength is endurance, and of course finding the footy.

The problem with these sort of stats is that this is what they do today.
Some prospects have really put in the hard yards and have little upside.
Other have been poorly coached lazy school kids.
The guy you want is the lazy school kid who already has the stats like the guy who has done the hard yards.

Jack Watts and Tom Lynch had been well coached as juniors, they proved to have little upside.
Then there was a bum called Dane Swan only rated pick 58 in 2001 and Matthew Priddis rookie No 31 in 2006.
They had UPSIDE.

So I ask where will these prospects be at in a few years time, not today ?

[Austinnn]

Looks like he was equal first in the beep test at the combine, did a 16.1 along with Jack Hiscox. That's equal with Brad Hill and a bit behind Hartung's record of 16.6.

On the other side of the coin, did a 3.00 second 20m sprint, which was only 0.01 seconds ahead of Sam Durdin and Tom Read who are literally a foot taller. Looks like his strength is endurance, and of course finding the footy.

The problem with these sort of stats is that this is what they do today.
Some prospects have really put in the hard yards and have little upside.
Other have been poorly coached lazy school kids.
The guy you want is the lazy school kid who already has the stats like the guy who has done the hard yards.

Jack Watts and Tom Lynch had been well coached as juniors, they proved to have little upside.
Then there was a bum called Dane Swan only rated pick 58 in 2001 and Matthew Priddis rookie No 31 in 2006.
They had UPSIDE.

So I ask where will these prospects be at in a few years time, not today ?

I agree but how can we know all that? Which of our players have the most upside, do you think?

[st.byron]

and some idea of what teams look at ( or the saints did) when viewing his suitability for AFL

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2014-10- ... ive-access



golly he is short isn't he

Thanks for that Brat. Watching that makes me think just how much of a lucky dip it is picking which guy to recruit. A club can do all that due diligence on a player and still end up with a guy who struggles. Or pick up someone with a late pick who turns out to be a gem.

[Dave McNamara]

The problem with these sort of stats is that this is what they do today.
Some prospects have really put in the hard yards and have little upside.
Other have been poorly coached lazy school kids.
The guy you want is the lazy school kid who already has the stats like the guy who has done the hard yards.

Jack Watts and Tom Lynch had been well coached as juniors, they proved to have little upside.
Then there was a bum called Dane Swan only rated pick 58 in 2001 and Matthew Priddis rookie No 31 in 2006.
They had UPSIDE.

So I ask where will these prospects be at in a few years time, not today ?

Gee that's a damn good assessment Ace! I'd never thought to look at it like that.

I guess to that, one could also add untimely injury, being very late to take-up the game seriously, not playing TAC, not attending the combine testing..., when looking for the sliders/the under rated.

[bergholt]

I agree but how can we know all that? Which of our players have the most upside, do you think?

Jason Holmes and Joe Baker-Thomas!

Of the more conventional prospects, Spencer White sticks out as one who could go far if he's willing to apply himself. Has a lot of raw talent but doesn't appear to have done a huge amount to exploit it. Acres and Templeton might be similar in some ways? Hard to know heaps from the outside though.

[gringo]

Not really fair to stand him next to a 7 foot American:

Looks like 2 meter Peter too.

[chook23]

could slip through to the PS/Rookie draft

[ShanghaiSaint]

I heard Steven Milne was told he was to short for AFL and he wouldn't make it. A club gave him a shot. The rest is glaurious saints history.

Daniel looks the goods I hope we give him a crack

[bergholt]

I heard Steven Milne was told he was to short for AFL and he wouldn't make it. A club gave him a shot. The rest is glaurious saints history.

Milney was quite short. Caleb is 8cm shorter than him. There's a point where you just need to make up too much.

That said, I think if we have a pick in the 40s or 50s and he's still there then we should take him. Not a lot of risk with a pick that late. I certainly wouldn't take him earlier though.

[dirtydog24]

The player on the right of that picture is Jack Hiscox (Sydney academy). He is a 184cm midfielder.

[Dave McNamara]

I still reckon that Caleb's highlights package is as good as any I've watched. Everything/one I've seen and read says he'd be a very very high draft pick, and would then go on to be an AFL-level gun player... except for one thing...

IMHO he may be short, but he's solidly built, good hands and awareness, can kick, and is pretty quick. For a mid-fielder, especially for the inside extraction stuff, I reckon that's more important. In fact, it's better in said role to be short and strong, than taller and weaker.

Caleb looks a sort of shorter, but quicker, Sam Mitchell-type. Now that can't be all bad.

And just think of all the legitimate frees he'll draw at clearances... no need for any Selwood-style ducking into tackles. I'm being totally serious on this one. Too many blokes can be a bit lax with their tackling technique anyway, as in they don't get down low enough when required... so against Caleb... (Plays with a helmet already, so hopefully that'll protect him a bit too.)

I'd be very happy to have Caleb on our list... he can have J'OR's spot. Used to fighting (footballing) adversity all his life. I reckon this bloke will likely very pleasantly surprise, if he gets a chance.

[bergholt]

Caleb looks a sort of shorter, but quicker, Sam Mitchell-type.

Quicker? Maybe, but he did a 3 second 20m sprint. That's not particularly quick in anyone's language.