Are we worse than Port was three years ago?

[ctqs]

Can we turn it around as quickly and finish in the top four in three years?

[Verdun66]

We need the quality of the next couple of drafts. Short of star players as it stands. And some luck that those picks come good. Smart trading will help. But no reason why not. Things turn around quickly, but we have a lot of work to do. And those injury gods will need to smile on us.

[saintspremiers]

In 3 years if we make the finals it would be a miracle IMO as we will need to recruit several A graders that get to top level in a season or two like Wines and Wingard

[falka]

From a list perspective we are nowhere near port of 3 years ago.
We need more a grade talent

[PJ]

Difficult to assess as many of our current kids (young men) have had little time to develop combined with injuries. I wouldn't be surprised that if the injury situation settles we move off the bottom but we still need some more high end talent - Petracca will help.

Port a few years back looked very ordinary. They did compile a pretty talented list over this time so when Hinkley arrived he had the cattle already there.

I'd be waiting another 2 seasons at least to get a better idea. Port were down for a fair while before getting the spike they are currently in.

[gringo]

At the end of the day it's good drafting that will make the difference. They quietly accumulated good players and a few got better with quality around them. Wines and Wingard were amazing gets. They almost changed the psyche of the team. The way they play seems to have rubbed off on the group. They were stock piling for ages though. We need to make every pick a winner to get us going forward.

[PJ]

At the end of the day it's good drafting that will make the difference. They quietly accumulated good players and a few got better with quality around them. Wines and Wingard were amazing gets. They almost changed the psyche of the team. The way they play seems to have rubbed off on the group. They were stock piling for ages though. We need to make every pick a winner to get us going forward.

The point you make about Wines and Wingard is absolutely relevant when you look at other clubs that have got high end talent but no impact on the ethos of the group. This is were the psych testing is crucial from the recruiters. Get guys that have the ability to go the extra yard and lift those around them. Be interested to know how Petracca goes as a leader and what he does around the group.

[Richter]

Not just Wines and Wingard. Hartlett, Boak and Gray were terrific for them also. We have a couple more absolutely crucial years of recruiting ahead.

[busso mick]

The introduction of Kenny Hinkley came at exactly the right time for them. They have certainly got a lot of talent, but the transformation of their former fringe players into solid contributors must be attributed to the powers of the coach.

[Beekay]

Gray is about the 4th best player in the comp at the moment. That kind of came from nowhere.

If Steven can reach that level, with Petracca & Billings hopefully being a better duo than Wingard and Wines...

[saintspremiers]

Billings is our first top 3 pick for more than a decade. Do we except him to be a leader also? So far, Dunstan fits that bill.

[matrix]

possibly add ryder to that list next year and look out

[saintsRrising]

Can we turn it around as quickly and finish in the top four in three years?

Would be nice...but the Power has done everything right including some sensational drafting and trading.

** One of the worlds best fitness guys, which has shown up in the way they can run out games over the opposition (ie look at the Hawks PF last night). It also probably allows them to make pacey players even quicker. I suspects ours are measurably off the AFL average pace, let alone Ports clear "World's Best Practice standard.

** Hinlkey. The "hindsight " coach that everyone now says that should ave picked up, instead of having as their No 2 pick. Has clearly made a differenc.


** Koch. Has turn around the off-field side of the club. We can only dream that Summers can emulate his achievements to some extent

** Home ground advantage. They now have one. We don't.


DRAFTING AND TRADING
Wines and Wingard. Both clear outperforms who if you redid the drafts would go much higher.

Robbie Gray. A pick 55 and a superstar.

God pick ups like Schultz from other clubs.

Whereas the Saints have only just got our act into gear. If Billings and Acres both live up to their potential last year will be an out-perform as Dunstan was an amazingly good pick up for us. But we need to nail each and every year for many seasons yet. We are still to lose Roo, Fisher, Dempster, Schneider, Joey, Ray.....

The drafting quality of the season prior is still up in the air as their are still question marks over Hickey, Less, Wright and Wight becoming regulars. You need at least two of them to be for it to be a pass. 3 or more for it to be an out-perform with at least one of the 4 needing to be a good player.

Our list is still very thin on genuine emerging starts and matchwinners. Port have a bunch of them. Can Billings be one? White? Hickey? Acres? At present it is Steven, who had an injury affected season this year. You need a young star on every line, and in the midfield and we currently are a long way off that. "Potentially" we have some.....but some need to arrive and we need to pick up more.

We need some GOPS to become average, and for some good players to become some great players etc.

ie Newnes could plod along at his current ok level, or he could step up to become a good player.
Bruce could reamin ok....or he could become that "third forward" we have been seeking since Hamill that he hinted at with that late season form (not saying as good as Hamill by the way)

[saintsRrising]

possibly add ryder to that list next year and look out

Plus a lot of youth that should improve. Wines and Wingard will both probably just get better...

[magnifisaint]

Are we worse than Port was three years ago?
By a fair way. I don't think they finished last. Goes to show how bad Primus was as a coach.

[citywest]

We are re-building from the ground up. To become at least as good as Port will depend on how ruthless we are on our much loved core players that still remain from '04 - '10 era. If we hang onto them for too long we will be cutting our nose to spite our face so to speak. So far so good I must say in that we have shown Jones and Gwilt the door. IMHO, we also need to delist Scneider as well, and more importantly trade Montagna this year while he still has currency. I am almost certain that North would take him either in a trade or as a FA.

We need to remain in the bottom 4 for another 3 years after this year and somehow conjure up as many top 20 draft picks as possible. The hard part is nailing those picks obviously.

I would also seriously consider trading Armo. I know he is a very good player but by the time we are ready for a shot at the flag he will be retired. If we can trade him for a pick under 20 I would do it. When does he become a FA? If he left as a FA what compensation would we get for him?

One final note. I have thought long and hard over our pick 1. If GWS are prepared to give us pick 4 and another pick under 20 for our pick 1 then we should jump at this. If the Pelican somehow pulls this off then I would be absolutely rapt and this would prove to me that we are on the right track and a premiership by 2020 is possible.

[FQF]

We are re-building from the ground up. To become at least as good as Port will depend on how ruthless we are on our much loved core players that still remain from '04 - '10 era. If we hang onto them for too long we will be cutting our nose to spite our face so to speak. So far so good I must say in that we have shown Jones and Gwilt the door. IMHO, we also need to delist Scneider as well, and more importantly trade Montagna this year while he still has currency. I am almost certain that North would take him either in a trade or as a FA.

We need to remain in the bottom 4 for another 3 years after this year and somehow conjure up as many top 20 draft picks as possible. The hard part is nailing those picks obviously.

I would also seriously consider trading Armo. I know he is a very good player but by the time we are ready for a shot at the flag he will be retired. If we can trade him for a pick under 20 I would do it. When does he become a FA? If he left as a FA what compensation would we get for him?

One final note. I have thought long and hard over our pick 1. If GWS are prepared to give us pick 4 and another pick under 20 for our pick 1 then we should jump at this. If the Pelican somehow pulls this off then I would be absolutely rapt and this would prove to me that we are on the right track and a premiership by 2020 is possible.

If that happens, then we can kiss our future goodbye. Our young stars will want out, our coach will be sacked (again) because of media pressure, our membership will plummet further, and our financial position will become utterly unviable.

[saintsRrising]

If that happens, then we can kiss our future goodbye. Our young stars will want out, our coach will be sacked (again) because of media pressure, our membership will plummet further, and our financial position will become utterly unviable.

Exactly. We cannot afford to be bottom 4 for the next 4 years.

We can be bottom 4 next year. But in 2016 and beyond we must be surging up the ladder of the the young guns will be walking to other clubs.

We are now sadly entering an era of USA style sports where players will chop and change clubs readily.

Our good young talent will stick together if they see themselves as rising together. But they will not wait 4 years.

In addition if we are on the bottom for 4 years then revenue will will be in parlous state. Membership will be thin, sponsors few...we will be at death's door...or dead.

[ctqs]

If we stay bottom four for the next three years we will lose any forward/upwards momentum or bounce and turn into Melbourne.

[citywest]

We are re-building from the ground up. To become at least as good as Port will depend on how ruthless we are on our much loved core players that still remain from '04 - '10 era. If we hang onto them for too long we will be cutting our nose to spite our face so to speak. So far so good I must say in that we have shown Jones and Gwilt the door. IMHO, we also need to delist Scneider as well, and more importantly trade Montagna this year while he still has currency. I am almost certain that North would take him either in a trade or as a FA.

We need to remain in the bottom 4 for another 3 years after this year and somehow conjure up as many top 20 draft picks as possible. The hard part is nailing those picks obviously.

I would also seriously consider trading Armo. I know he is a very good player but by the time we are ready for a shot at the flag he will be retired. If we can trade him for a pick under 20 I would do it. When does he become a FA? If he left as a FA what compensation would we get for him?

One final note. I have thought long and hard over our pick 1. If GWS are prepared to give us pick 4 and another pick under 20 for our pick 1 then we should jump at this. If the Pelican somehow pulls this off then I would be absolutely rapt and this would prove to me that we are on the right track and a premiership by 2020 is possible.

If that happens, then we can kiss our future goodbye. Our young stars will want out, our coach will be sacked (again) because of media pressure, our membership will plummet further, and our financial position will become utterly unviable.

I don't think so. If the media can see that we are gathering the nucleus of a premiership team and are playing attacking and fast footy we would be fine. Melbourne on the other hand have gone from one disaster to another. Totally different kettle of fish IMHO.

[bergholt]

Can we turn it around as quickly and finish in the top four in three years?

Three years ago? This article is from February last year, barely 18 months ago:

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/nothin ... 6567303294

Incidentally, also from that article:

"St Kilda is at the bottom end of the curve with the second oldest team but only the 12th best list."

I hope no-one's too surprised that we're languishing at the bottom of the ladder and will be for at least another couple of years.

[BringBackMadDog]

One thing Ports resurgence myst teach us. If you want to recover quickly draft the best midfielders with early draft picks. Boak, Winged, Wines, Gray, Hartlett. Then they traded for decent B grade mids from other sides.
All of their mids are brilliant users, quick, tough and most importantly goal kicking threats.
You can build quickly once you have a core of A grade mids, average forward can look bloody good when you have quality service

[spert]

Its one thing having talented players, but a top coach makes the team, and Hinkley is clearly a class above AR (IMO) especially in his motivational strengths, and the combination of Koch and Hinley really gave the club including the playing list, a real kick up the backside.

[plugger66]

Its one thing having talented players, but a top coach makes the team, and Hinkley is clearly a class above AR (IMO) especially in his motivational strengths, and the combination of Koch and Hinley really gave the club including the playing list, a real kick up the backside.

You also come across as thinking SW is a class above AR. Do you honestly think Hinkley would have the Saints travelling much better?

[FQF]

Can we turn it around as quickly and finish in the top four in three years?

Three years ago? This article is from February last year, barely 18 months ago:

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/nothin ... 6567303294

Incidentally, also from that article:

"St Kilda is at the bottom end of the curve with the second oldest team but only the 12th best list."

I hope no-one's too surprised that we're languishing at the bottom of the ladder and will be for at least another couple of years.

Great find bergholt. That article really drives home the fact that Port surged up the ladder extremely quickly and more importantly against all media, expert, Champion Data predictions. If our youngsters keep developing, and we draft in 5 or so more top end players, a couple of free agents and good trades, I can see us following a similar trajectory.