St Kilda to chase Kristian Jaksch

[spert]

I can guarantee that if we were Hawthorn and Sydney are right now, players would be knocking on the door at Seaford to come play with us.

If we had the right money...

[Con Gorozidis]

I can guarantee that if we were Hawthorn and Sydney are right now, players would be knocking on the door at Seaford to come play with us.

If we had the right money...

Big 'if'

How did hawthorn and Sydney become hawthorn and Sydney in the first place? It took them years of building a culture etc etc I dont believe we can build that kind of cultural capital at Seaford.

[Life Long Saint]

I can guarantee that if we were Hawthorn and Sydney are right now, players would be knocking on the door at Seaford to come play with us.

If we had the right money...

Big 'if'

How did hawthorn and Sydney become hawthorn and Sydney in the first place? It took them years of building a culture etc etc I dont believe we can build that kind of cultural capital at Seaford.

That's true of Hawthorn but I am not sure you can compare Hawthorn to Sydney.
Sydney are solely a product of the AFL and they have done an immense amount of work to get Sydney to where they are.
Both off and on field assistance to ensure the AFL's presence in Australia's most populated city is successful.

Hawthorn did all that without any assistance and they have been a benchmark club on culture since the 1980's. There was a brief period where they nearly merged with Melbourne. Other than that, they have been a club that I wished ours was run like.

[stinger]

I can guarantee that if we were Hawthorn and Sydney are right now, players would be knocking on the door at Seaford to come play with us.

If we had the right money...

Big 'if'

How did hawthorn and Sydney become hawthorn and Sydney in the first place? It took them years of building a culture etc etc I dont believe we can build that kind of cultural capital at Seaford.

nothing wrong with the saints culture...i think the performances of ball at the filth, bj at the cheats, dal at the roos and banger at both the filth and the scumbags has well and truly put paid to that old hairy chestnut.......

[Con Gorozidis]

I can guarantee that if we were Hawthorn and Sydney are right now, players would be knocking on the door at Seaford to come play with us.

If we had the right money...

Big 'if'

How did hawthorn and Sydney become hawthorn and Sydney in the first place? It took them years of building a culture etc etc I dont believe we can build that kind of cultural capital at Seaford.

nothing wrong with the saints culture...i think the performances of ball at the filth, bj at the cheats, dal at the roos and banger at both the filth and the scumbags has well and truly put paid to that old hairy chestnut.......

fair enough - i certainly dont mean actual player culture. i just meant the marketing side. like it or loath it - the whole 'family club' thing has worked for the hawks. and the swans have created a bit of a 'family' vibe in sydney by differentiating themselves from 'bad boy' nrl clubs.

most of it is all just marketing but im not sure what 'product' or 'brand' we are selling at seaford. 'kind of near the seaside'. 'somehere you drive past really fast on the way to the seaside'. 'family friendly (but dont trust us with your teen daughter)'.

[Saint wagga]

Speaking of trying to turn fortunes around and build a positive vibe...Surely POrt Adelaide have to be the Gold standard with regards to completely reversing a club culture and negative spiral...

1. Good Administrators in key positions
2. Excellent recruiting and Good Coaching staff
3. Win footy games + play an awsome style of footy
4. No dickheads policy - across the board
5. Sweet new stadium in the heart of the city (come on how can we compete with that!!)
6. Time...........

With regards to the first 2 points...We have installed new people in key positons, weather they are 'good' or not, only time will tell! we clearly have a plan in place to get in the talent needed to build and very competitive team. We seem to be having some luck with the no d**khead approach to recruitment. Can't do much about the stadium, but Etihad is fine if we get points 1-4 sorted...

I'm confident we have got good people in important positions, but thats based mainly on hersay and as Denis Denuto once famously said...'the vibe'
Now all we need is a fast forward button so we can skip to 2016...but i guess that defeats the purpose of never putting a limit on anything!!

[dragit]

4. No dickheads policy - across the board

This is the side who on a massive end of season bender in Vegas a player lost his life in unfathomable circumstances.
Put's the Mad Monday stuff into perspective IMO.

[Saint wagga]

4. No dickheads policy - across the board

This is the side who on a massive end of season bender in Vegas a player lost his life in unfathomable circumstances.
Put's the Mad Monday stuff into perspective IMO.

Yeah it really does Dragit - by all reports J Mac was a very likeable young fellow. Do young people do dumb stuff occassiionally, 100%. Does it make them or their club have a 'bad culture', no. As the saying goes, sometimes s*** happens. You here stuff about clubs having a 'bad culture', Collingwood with the Ratpak, the eagles with cousins and Gardi, our boys with the muiltple off field indescretions...

At the end of the day, it seems to be such a minority of players that can give a club a massive stigma. The only people who know if a club is rotten to the core are people very close to the club, of which i'm not. The no dickheads thing, i guess, if the majority are good citizens with good values, then thats the best any club can hope for...Perhaps more an aspirational goal!!

[dragit]

No dickheads policy at a football club is an oxymoron IMO.

Sydney supposedly started it, while they had Barry Hall on their list FFS.

Most footballers are dickheads… sorry to all those players out there reading this /notsorry

[Saint wagga]

PS: dragit did you see my heartfelt apology for the skepticism about the saints future fest in the thread " Young saints on the cusp of signing"...i've seen the light!!

[Saint wagga]

No dickheads policy at a football club is an oxymoron IMO.

Sydney supposedly started it, while they had Barry Hall on their list FFS.

Most footballers are dickheads… sorry to all those players out there reading this /notsorry

LENNY???

[3rd generation saint]

If Seaford is such a problem, how come we are re signing every young gun we got, Blake Acres today.
Plus, why couldn't we recruit anyone to Moorabbin in the 80's. It's all about how well the club is traveling and it's future prospects that attracts players and keeps them, not where we train.
None of the new crop of players know of any other home than Seaford and they are all happy to renew their contracts.

[3rd generation saint]

If Seaford is such a problem, how come we are re signing every young gun we got, Blake Acres today.
Plus, why couldn't we recruit anyone to Moorabbin in the 80's. It's all about how well the club is traveling and it's future prospects that attracts players and keeps them, not where we train.
None of the new crop of players know of any other home than Seaford and they are all happy to renew their contracts.

[dragit]

LENNY???

Sacrilege!!!… you barely hear that he has had a quiet game.

I've had the pleasure of meeting len-dog and he lived up to the hype of being an absolutely ripping bloke.

p.s. yes i did see your apology
only a little gimmick, hasn't hurt though.

[Saint wagga]

LENNY???

Sacrilege!!!… you barely hear that he has had a quiet game.

I've had the pleasure of meeting len-dog and he lived up to the hype of being an absolutely ripping bloke. quote]

Kiddin - weight of numbers suggests that indeed Mr Hayes is a terrific bloke!

[PADDLEPOP1001]

We were where Hawks. & Sydney now are in. 2009 & 10 and no one came knocking !!Seaford doesn't help ,very little media coverage. , sponsers etc , will be a big change once we get to the Junction!

[stinger]

I can guarantee that if we were Hawthorn and Sydney are right now, players would be knocking on the door at Seaford to come play with us.

If we had the right money...

Big 'if'

How did hawthorn and Sydney become hawthorn and Sydney in the first place? It took them years of building a culture etc etc I dont believe we can build that kind of cultural capital at Seaford.

nothing wrong with the saints culture...i think the performances of ball at the filth, bj at the cheats, dal at the roos and banger at both the filth and the scumbags has well and truly put paid to that old hairy chestnut.......

fair enough - i certainly dont mean actual player culture. i just meant the marketing side. like it or loath it - the whole 'family club' thing has worked for the hawks. and the swans have created a bit of a 'family' vibe in sydney by differentiating themselves from 'bad boy' nrl clubs.

most of it is all just marketing but im not sure what 'product' or 'brand' we are selling at seaford. 'kind of near the seaside'. 'somehere you drive past really fast on the way to the seaside'. 'family friendly (but dont trust us with your teen daughter)'.

[Life Long Saint]

We were where Hawks. & Sydney now are in. 2009 & 10 and no one came knocking !!Seaford doesn't help ,very little media coverage. , sponsers etc , will be a big change once we get to the Junction!

We couldn't afford to take any big names then.
Part of the reason we lost BJ at the end of 2012.

I'd be wagering that one of the main reasons we couldn't attract a sponsor might have something to do with the off field dramas...Andrew Lovett, Kim Duthie, etc and very little to do with Seaford.

[Animal Enclosure]

We were where Hawks. & Sydney now are in. 2009 & 10 and no one came knocking !!Seaford doesn't help ,very little media coverage. , sponsers etc , will be a big change once we get to the Junction!

We couldn't afford to take any big names then.
Part of the reason we lost BJ at the end of 2012.

I'd be wagering that one of the main reasons we couldn't attract a sponsor might have something to do with the off field dramas...Andrew Lovett, Kim Duthie, etc and very little to do with Seaford.

Being over the cap in 2011 until Pelchen did some quick re-negotiating had a bit to do with not attracting anyone.

Duthie also cost the club what would have been the biggest sponsorship deal in the club's history (& one of the biggest in the game).

09-10 will go down in Saints history as yet another opportunity lost on & off the field.

[lefty]

There will come a time in the next two years when we realise that - no-one really wants to come Seaford.

Deep down we all know it. But many are frightened to say it and many fear the change and upheaval and uncertainty of another future move.

This is absolute rubbish.
Players will come, there is limited spots in the AFL, and the money is very attractive, along with our strategy and list opportunities.

Your entitled to your own opinion, but don't go out and state it as fact, because its clearly not.

The idea of basing your view on who comes to the club, due to location doesn't make any sense at all.

If you stated perhaps a player from another state moving to another, then sure, they leave family, friends, etc, but having to drive an extra hour, oh wow... pfft

[Con Gorozidis]

There will come a time in the next two years when we realise that - no-one really wants to come Seaford.

Deep down we all know it. But many are frightened to say it and many fear the change and upheaval and uncertainty of another future move.

This is absolute rubbish.
Players will come, there is limited spots in the AFL, and the money is very attractive, along with our strategy and list opportunities.

Your entitled to your own opinion, but don't go out and state it as fact, because its clearly not.

The idea of basing your view on who comes to the club, due to location doesn't make any sense at all.

If you stated perhaps a player from another state moving to another, then sure, they leave family, friends, etc, but having to drive an extra hour, oh wow... pfft

So we are going to pay big money to players outside the AFL?

Remember - The other 17 clubs can offer equally 'attractive money'.
The elite players have choice of club - and will be offered commensurate salaries.
Some players lower down a clubs pay ladder - will be drawn to a lower club by high salaries - yes - but this is often offset by desire for team success. These two factors are dependent, inter-changeable and inverse to one another (club success v cash). That is players trade them off.

So a low club can pull mid ranked players from other clubs using cash on occasion - but not regularly.

This 'cash advantage' however should be neutral over time (in a salary cap restricted environment with a narrow band of 95-100%)

So over-all the 'cash advantage' is neutral and the location becomes a variable factor in player attraction and choice.

In summary - In the long term - Location matters for player attraction.

[plugger66]

There will come a time in the next two years when we realise that - no-one really wants to come Seaford.

Deep down we all know it. But many are frightened to say it and many fear the change and upheaval and uncertainty of another future move.

This is absolute rubbish.
Players will come, there is limited spots in the AFL, and the money is very attractive, along with our strategy and list opportunities.

Your entitled to your own opinion, but don't go out and state it as fact, because its clearly not.

The idea of basing your view on who comes to the club, due to location doesn't make any sense at all.

If you stated perhaps a player from another state moving to another, then sure, they leave family, friends, etc, but having to drive an extra hour, oh wow... pfft

So we are going to pay big money to players outside the AFL?

Remember - The other 17 clubs can offer equally 'attractive money'.
The elite players have choice of club - and will be offered commensurate salaries.
Some players lower down a clubs pay ladder - will be drawn to a lower club by high salaries - yes - but this is often offset by desire for team success. These two factors are dependent, inter-changeable and inverse to one another (club success v cash). That is players trade them off.

So a low club can pull mid ranked players from other clubs using cash on occasion - but not regularly.

This 'cash advantage' however should be neutral over time (in a salary cap restricted environment with a narrow band of 95-100%)

So over-all the 'cash advantage' is neutral and the location becomes a variable factor in player attraction and choice.

In summary - In the long term - Location matters for player attraction.

Con there is a SC so if we have space we can offer more than most other clubs. We will not get very good players wherever we train if we offer the same as every other club and are we are still struggling at thebottom of the ladder. We will get very good players if we offer good money and start our way up the ladder. To think otherwise would suggest they have forgotton BJ just moved to Tullamarine when he lives in Brighton.

[lefty]

So we are going to pay big money to players outside the AFL?

Remember - The other 17 clubs can offer equally 'attractive money'.
The elite players have choice of club - and will be offered commensurate salaries.
Some players lower down a clubs pay ladder - will be drawn to a lower club by high salaries - yes - but this is often offset by desire for team success. These two factors are dependent, inter-changeable and inverse to one another (club success v cash). That is players trade them off.

So a low club can pull mid ranked players from other clubs using cash on occasion - but not regularly.

This 'cash advantage' however should be neutral over time (in a salary cap restricted environment with a narrow band of 95-100%)

So over-all the 'cash advantage' is neutral and the location becomes a variable factor in player attraction and choice.

In summary - In the long term - Location matters for player attraction.

Who the hell is going to pay big money to players outside the AFL, unless you think Kal Michael and Izzy were good?

17 other clubs can all poach a player. However, not all 17 will be able to offer an attractive "package" to that player at that particular time.

A team at the top of the ladder would have less salary cap space than a team down the bottom yet offer a real chance at a flag, whereas a team down the bottom can offer more opportunities and money. Either way, both of these are not effected by location.

I think you have an obsession with JO and won't let it go.

(btw - I'm fine with moving to the JO (or whatever the club decides) but I'm not going to agree that it will be more attractive to players, and increase membership - because it wont - it should provide better facilities which may or may not help team/club performance).

[Dave McNamara]

If Seaford is such a problem, how come we are re signing every young gun we got...

... coz they know where our club is headed... on-field... and off-field.

[saint6709]

btw - I'm fine with moving to the JO (or whatever the club decides) but I'm not going to agree that it will be more attractive to players, and increase membership - because it wont - it should provide better facilities which may or may not help team/club performance).

I find it hard to believe you can't see the attraction to players, members and sponsors for the team St Kilda to have a footprint in St Kilda