Saints homeward bound!!

[remboy]

Do you honestly think that player would turn down say $750k a year (just a hypothetical number) because he's got to go to Seaford for training a few times a week?
If I had spent my whole life in Victoria I'd rather do that than go to Perth or Western Sydney.

Yes I do because there are another 12 or whatever clubs who can also offer that same 750k. It is a very competitive market we are in.

I can't remember the last time a player was being chased by 12 clubs. If a player from interstate wanted to come back home to Melbourne and the best offers were from us and West Coast I'd be pretty sure he'd be happy to play with us.

[plugger66]

Be real honest with me.

Does anyone honestly - look me in the eye - does anyone honestly think we will EVER pull a big fish while we are based at Seaford?


Now its about time we stopped kidding ourselves and telling ourselves lies lies and lies and self comforting GARBAGE.

NO big fish from another club WILL EVER come to us at Seaford.

Get a friggin grip. Lets move on from this self delusion.

Seriously Con I cant take you seriously. As if a star player wouldnt come to us because we are training in Seaford. They can live where they want. I think you pointed out Chips lives in Port melbourne and then they go to training and then come home and go out in the city. Yep they have to travel a whole hour to work but they will be getting 800k or whatever the amount to do it. Anyway why dont star players want to live in Mt Eliza or Sorrento or Portsea. We will get star players when we want them and where we train wont make one little bit of a difference. You do realise we just Dal and BJ to places about an hour from where they live.

[Dave McNamara]

I agree with you Pluggs. Con is not to be taken seriously on this issue.

The fact that our club started getting inquiries from potential sponsors, and from player managers, in the days immediately following the Junction Oval story breaking... is clearly just sheer coincidence, right(?)





If I was good enough to play AFL footy, and if I could have a say in which club I got to, then where said club trained and played would be the number one thing I would be looking at. Just as in being a supporter, if I was a player, I would be looking at a club's connection with its history and with its community.

I think that a footy club is something special, not a meaningless soulless entity.
A footy club should stand for something, and a footy club should be an integral part of its community.

But then, that's just me. Maybe I'm old school when it comes to the priceless value of history and of tradition...?

[Con Gorozidis]

Be real honest with me.

Does anyone honestly - look me in the eye - does anyone honestly think we will EVER pull a big fish while we are based at Seaford?


Now its about time we stopped kidding ourselves and telling ourselves lies lies and lies and self comforting GARBAGE.

NO big fish from another club WILL EVER come to us at Seaford.

Get a friggin grip. Lets move on from this self delusion.

Seriously Con I cant take you seriously. As if a star player wouldnt come to us because we are training in Seaford. They can live where they want. I think you pointed out Chips lives in Port melbourne and then they go to training and then come home and go out in the city. Yep they have to travel a whole hour to work but they will be getting 800k or whatever the amount to do it. Anyway why dont star players want to live in Mt Eliza or Sorrento or Portsea. We will get star players when we want them and where we train wont make one little bit of a difference. You do realise we just Dal and BJ to places about an hour from where they live.

Honestly - Just honestly.
Lets see just how man big fish we pull while at Seaford. The current tally is 0. Until proven otherwise my hypothesis stands.
Start mouthing off if/when we actually get one. I wont hold my breath.

And clearly its a competitive wage environment when there are 18 clubs and they all have to pay 95% of the SC.
So my point is - (and again it seems i have to spell this out slowly for nuff nuffs) is that on the assumption of equal pay - people will choose a better work location.
Its just incredibly obvious - yet some on here want to deny and argue this point.

And the assumption of 'equal pay' is a reasonable one to make based on what I said above.

So Ill say it again real slow -

1. Seaford's geography provides a competitive disadvantage to us for attracting talent.
2. Other amenity factors come into play in ones workplace
3. Other peripheral benefits exist based on location
4. All things being equal at the margins - people prefer a short commute to their workplace


I cant take anyone seriously who thinks Seaford is competitively neutral for player attraction in a national market like we have.

classic example -

1. everyone thought Buddy was going to GWS all last year.
2. GWS offered big coin to Buddy.
3. Buddy lives in Bondi
4. Buddy wanted to play at the Swans.

If people think Buddy doesnt care where he lives/works its just hysterical.

But hey - you cant take me seriously on this issue? And Im meant to take people seriously who think Seaford is a winning or neutral strategy.
Just farking absolutely laughable.

[Con Gorozidis]

Do you honestly think that player would turn down say $750k a year (just a hypothetical number) because he's got to go to Seaford for training a few times a week?
If I had spent my whole life in Victoria I'd rather do that than go to Perth or Western Sydney.

Yes I do because there are another 12 or whatever clubs who can also offer that same 750k. It is a very competitive market we are in.

I can't remember the last time a player was being chased by 12 clubs. If a player from interstate wanted to come back home to Melbourne and the best offers were from us and West Coast I'd be pretty sure he'd be happy to play with us.

You are missing the point - you just named one particular scenario where maybe a player might choose us (emphasise might),
Forget about individual scenarios.
Overall - at the margin - all things being equal - Seaford would be considered a negative against us for most players.


Anyone who cant follow this is deluded in the extreme.

Id like to see some of your dating profiles.

[Con Gorozidis]

Apparently Seaford is just so god darn attractive - what superstar player wouldnt want a piece of that sweet ass action huh!



Pluggers dating profile would go a little like this:



"Hot mature guy

Seeks girl aged 21-25. Must be slim and work out at least 5 times a week. Must be over 5'7. Preferably someone still competing in high level sports . Must speak at least 3 languages and have a minimum of a Masters degree. Must be loving and caring and great with kids and animals. Must be independently wealthy."

Those offers will just come flooding in!


But hey - apparently its me who cant be taken seriously

[Con Gorozidis]

So for all you people pretending it doesn't matter where where you work.

Would you take a 10% pay rise if I offered you a job in Alice Springs?

Nah. Didnt think so.

[Spatchcock]

So for all you people pretending it doesn't matter where where you work.

Would you take a 10% pay rise if I offered you a job in Alice Springs?

Nah. Didnt think so.

That's exactly what I did.

[remboy]

So for all you people pretending it doesn't matter where where you work.

Would you take a 10% pay rise if I offered you a job in Alice Springs?

Nah. Didnt think so.

Maybe not, but if someone offered me 200k extra to drive 30 minutes down a freeway I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Con Gorozidis]

So for all you people pretending it doesn't matter where where you work.

Would you take a 10% pay rise if I offered you a job in Alice Springs?

Nah. Didnt think so.

Maybe not, but if someone offered me 200k extra to drive 30 minutes down a freeway I'd do it in a heartbeat.

What % increase is that on your current wage out of interest? What % increase on peoples wage do you think the Saints can offer? Because across the board the answer is 0. Or are you suggesting we ask the league for a 50% Seaford allowance - in which case we can offer more money.

If presented with two totally equal pay offers . Then would you choose the better work location or the crapper one?
That is the question here.

[Con Gorozidis]

So for all you people pretending it doesn't matter where where you work.

Would you take a 10% pay rise if I offered you a job in Alice Springs?

Nah. Didnt think so.

That's exactly what I did.

Love your work spatchy! Good on your for showing some guts and sense of adventure! Hows is the Alice?

OK - How about this one. 2 completely equal pay offers - (cos in reality the Saints dont get an extra 10% cola for seaford) . Would you go for the convenient or inconvenient work location?

[Con Gorozidis]

I cant believe I'm even responding to this nonsense on here against a bunch of cloud yellers. Some of whom would just insist black was white.

If people seriously think Seaford is ok and not an issue at all for attracting talent - they simply cant be helped.

[Con Gorozidis]

People saying im not logical - and then assuming some huge pay rise for going to Seaford.

Here's the tip - we dont have any more SC than anyone else. yet your whole argument for Seaford relies on some huge pay rise for players - which doesnt exist. Other clubs can offer the exact same coin for good players - plus possibly bettter opportunities outside footy (how we going with sponsors?)

yet apparently im not logical.

The fact is since we moved to Seaford we havent attracted a single player or sponsor - yet pollyannas keep saying its all roses.No problems. All great. Woohoo! Maybe arent bottom either?

While we are at it (fantasising/denialism) - the AFL has announced it has awarded us the 09 and 10 Grand finals. The AFL commission met and decided that we really won and that the ball bounce for Milney was in fact the balls fault and therefore a goal was awarded. For 09 they decided that toe poke was not a normal part of the game and also that even though we lost by 12 points the score should also be disregarded and in fact the Saints won as the 'unusual' toe poke rendered every other one of the hundreds of contests and moments in the match null and void.

Happy now?

[Con Gorozidis]

[HitTheBoundary]

So for all you people pretending it doesn't matter where where you work.

Would you take a 10% pay rise if I offered you a job in Alice Springs?

Nah. Didnt think so.

That's exactly what I did.

Love your work spatchy! Good on your for showing some guts and sense of adventure! Hows is the Alice?

OK - How about this one. 2 completely equal pay offers - (cos in reality the Saints dont get an extra 10% cola for seaford) . Would you go for the convenient or inconvenient work location?

Con puts up one of his "irrefutable facts".
A real life example proves him wrong.
So Con alters his argument.
lol.

[Con Gorozidis]

So for all you people pretending it doesn't matter where where you work.

Would you take a 10% pay rise if I offered you a job in Alice Springs?

Nah. Didnt think so.

That's exactly what I did.

Love your work spatchy! Good on your for showing some guts and sense of adventure! Hows is the Alice?

OK - How about this one. 2 completely equal pay offers - (cos in reality the Saints dont get an extra 10% cola for seaford) . Would you go for the convenient or inconvenient work location?

Con puts up one of his "irrefutable facts".
A real life example proves him wrong.
So Con alters his argument.
lol.

So whats your argument? Exactly?
Clearly spatchy is an outlier - and good on spatchy for doing that. I admire him. But my argument doesnt change one iota. How many people would move to AS ?

Fact is - We dont get any more $ for salaries cos we play at Seaford - so the idea we do is clearly a nonsense.

You tell me exactly what you think.


1. Do you think we can offer higher salaries than other clubs across the board?

2. Do you think Seaford offers us a competitive advantage for high-end attracting players?

yes or no answers will suffice mate.

[Con Gorozidis]

So for all you people pretending it doesn't matter where where you work.

Would you take a 10% pay rise if I offered you a job in Alice Springs?

Nah. Didnt think so.

That's exactly what I did.

Love your work spatchy! Good on your for showing some guts and sense of adventure! Hows is the Alice?

OK - How about this one. 2 completely equal pay offers - (cos in reality the Saints dont get an extra 10% cola for seaford) . Would you go for the convenient or inconvenient work location?

Con puts up one of his "irrefutable facts".
A real life example proves him wrong.
So Con alters his argument.
lol.

If you think spatchy moving to AS 'proves me wrong' you are seriously stupid.

I think it is you that has plucked something out with a cherry picker in an attempt to 'prove me wrong'.

But if you want to believe Seaford is a good choice thats fine. Keep dreaming.
Thankfully Matt Finis and Gillon Mclachlan know otherwise.

[HitTheBoundary]

So for all you people pretending it doesn't matter where where you work.

Would you take a 10% pay rise if I offered you a job in Alice Springs?

Nah. Didnt think so.

That's exactly what I did.

Love your work spatchy! Good on your for showing some guts and sense of adventure! Hows is the Alice?

OK - How about this one. 2 completely equal pay offers - (cos in reality the Saints dont get an extra 10% cola for seaford) . Would you go for the convenient or inconvenient work location?

Con puts up one of his "irrefutable facts".
A real life example proves him wrong.
So Con alters his argument.
lol.

So whats your argument? Exactly?

That you keep moving the goal posts, or ignore when examples prove that it can happen.

Clearly spatchy is an outlier - and good on spatchy for doing that. I admire him. But my argument doesnt change one iota. How many people would move to AS ?

Anyone that fell into the "outlier" category. A friend of mine also moved to Alice - for more money and career advancement.

Fact is - We dont get any more $ for salaries cos we play at Seaford - so the idea we do is clearly a nonsense.

Agreed, But who says we do? Only you are saying this to argue against it. A straw man argument.

You tell me exactly what you think.

Firstly, as I have clearly stated previously in the thread, I am in favour of the move to the Junction - if the club gets equal/better facilities and is not disadvantaged by the way the facilities are shared.

In regards to your arguments against Seaford, I agree to an extent.
However, in my view it is a simplistic argument.
I know of people who have moved interstate and overseas (to places they've never seen) for more money.
I think if we were in a premiership window, then players would want to join the club, irrespective of location.
I think for greater opportunity players would join a club, regardless of location.

[HitTheBoundary]

If you think spatchy moving to AS 'proves me wrong' you are seriously stupid.

In many of your posts you attack the other poster personally when they disagree.
It says much about the real strength of your arguments.

[Con Gorozidis]

In many of your posts you attack the other poster personally when they disagree.
It says much about the real strength of your arguments.

No I dont.
I'm in the Homeward bound thread and I have been openly and actively a supporting moving to the Junction for the following reasons:

1. Historical and cultural reasons ('the vibe')
2. Player & Staff attraction (particularly high-end marquee players)
3. Corporate sponsorship reasons
4. Increased ability to attract new people (fans and members) to the game and to the club - i.e using the location to broaden the supporter base beyond the rusted-ons utilising the international and transient population demographics of the area.

I invite you to share your views and spell them out. If you have stronger arguments for the retention of Seaford, then I and others, are all ears.

Many sniveling cowards on here who just like chucking rocks from behind the bushes and nitpicking against others but without the conviction to openly declare their views.

All views are welcome and valid - and I admire and respect those that put them out there on the line - even if I disagree with them - I respect and support their rights to have them.

What does piss me off is those who never ever declare any view. They just bag others and nitpick.

If you have an opposing hypothesis - please present it.
If you support Seaford for whatever reason - thats fine - I respect that - come out and say it proudly.

Say "Here i stand, Seaford supporter". and then maybe give some reasons. I would respect and welcome that.

Just making snivelling nitpicky swipes at me when I have made my reasons clear and open isnt really that helpful or cool. Im not asking you or anyone to agree with my views (I couldnt give a stuff) . But im putting them out there which is more can I say for most.

[HitTheBoundary]

In many of your posts you attack the other poster personally when they disagree.
It says much about the real strength of your arguments.

No I dont.
I'm in the Homeward bound thread and I have been openly and actively a supporting moving to the Junction for the following reasons:

1. Historical and cultural reasons ('the vibe')
2. Player & Staff attraction (particularly high-end marquee players)
3. Corporate sponsorship reasons
4. Increased ability to attract new people (fans and members) to the game and to the club - i.e using the location to broaden the supporter base beyond the rusted-ons utilising the international and transient population demographics of the area.

I invite you to share your views and spell them out. If you have stronger arguments for the retention of Seaford, then I and others, are all ears.

Many sniveling cowards on here who just like chucking rocks from behind the bushes and nitpicking against others but without the conviction to openly declare their views.

All views are welcome and valid - and I admire and respect those that put them out there on the line - even if I disagree with them - I respect and support their rights to have them.

What does piss me off is those who never ever declare any view. They just bag others and nitpick.

If you have an opposing hypothesis - please present it.
If you support Seaford for whatever reason - thats fine - I respect that - come out and say it proudly.

Say "Here i stand, Seaford supporter". and then maybe give some reasons. I would respect and welcome that.

Just making snivelling nitpicky swipes at me when I have made my reasons clear and open isnt really that helpful or cool. Im not asking you or anyone to agree with my views (I couldnt give a stuff) . But im putting them out there which is more can I say for most.

A few posts above this self serving diatribe, in response to you asking for my view, I wrote the following;

"Firstly, as I have clearly stated previously in the thread, I am in favour of the move to the Junction - if the club gets equal/better facilities and is not disadvantaged by the way the facilities are shared."

Yet, for a second time, you're still asking me to state my position?
I put it in bold this time to make it easier for you.
If you can't comprehend that this is my viewpoint, which you obviously can't from your response, and are too lazy to read what I have previously said earlier in the thread then I am not going to waste my time continually restating my view.

[WinnersOnly]

If is worth anything Con I totally agree with you! It was a terrible decision to move the club to Seaford and a fly by night CEO in Archie Fraser should not have been allowed to make such decisions.

Hit the Boundary if the club has to pay extra $$$ just to get a player to Seaford than that in itself is surely evidence of what Con is stating?

Seaford is a shyte hole miles from no where - with apart from the freeway traffic the club having little to no commercial exposure! It was just another disgraceful decision by the clubs executives and board to add to their littany of poor administration throughout their history!

[gringo]

I remember Luke Ball coming to the kids footy club and gushing over the Lexus centre. He said he left us and it was like coming from another era. He said he went in the door at the Pies and the professionalism and standards of the environment made you feel different and more professional, said he knew he'd made the right decision. He def gave the impression that the environment was a huge factor to performance and general well being.

[plugger66]

I remember Luke Ball coming to the kids footy club and gushing over the Lexus centre. He said he left us and it was like coming from another era. He said he went in the door at the Pies and the professionalism and standards of the environment made you feel different and more professional, said he knew he'd made the right decision. He def gave the impression that the environment was a huge factor to performance and general well being.

I notice no word of location though. The argument is location not facilities. Why did BJ go to Tullamarine when he lives in Brighton if distance is an issue. We will get very good players wherever we train once we want to get them. To think otherwise is plain silly IMO of course. No one could claim Tullamarine is a better suburb than Seaford surely.

[magnifisaint]

I remember Luke Ball coming to the kids footy club and gushing over the Lexus centre. He said he left us and it was like coming from another era. He said he went in the door at the Pies and the professionalism and standards of the environment made you feel different and more professional, said he knew he'd made the right decision. He def gave the impression that the environment was a huge factor to performance and general well being.

I notice no word of location though. The argument is location not facilities. Why did BJ go to Tullamarine when he lives in Brighton if distance is an issue. We will get very good players wherever we train once we want to get them. To think otherwise is plain silly IMO of course. No one could claim Tullamarine is a better suburb than Seaford surely.

But you're saying the facilities at Tullamarine are.