2014 List Management - Draft & Trade Discussion

[Con Gorozidis]

Latest phantom draft has us getting Petracca at pick 1 & Mckenzie at our 2nd pick. (Saad going to Essendon late)

I'd be ok with that. But how do we get a 2nd pick between those 2 picks? Anyone heard anything?

http://boundforglorynews.com/paige-card ... -draft-4-0

My gut feel is either Joey or Armo are gawwwwnnnn....

[PJ]

I'd be looking at trading Armo and pick 21 to Melb for pick 3. Get Petracca and McCartin in one go. Keep Joey so leadership group is Roo, Joey, Steven, Dempster, Fisher, Geary and perhaps keep Schneids.

Give Petracca no 8 and McCartin no 4.

[avid]

I'd be looking at trading Armo and pick 21 to Melb for pick 3. Get Petracca and McCartin in one go. Keep Joey so leadership group is Roo, Joey, Steven, Dempster, Fisher, Geary and perhaps keep Schneids.

Give Petracca no 8 and McCartin no 4.

Trading Armo would be too big a kick in the guts. (For me at any rate.) I just can't see us without him.
I would deeply mourn Joey's departure. But I can see some sense in it.

From that phantom draft, it looks like we could sneak a massive major forward even with pick 9
McCartin, Wright, Darcy Moore, Hugh Goddard all would be enormous gets.
The top drawer seems to go down to about pick 12.

Not that I know much about it.

[saint6709]

Looks like we are officially chasing Jaksch

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-pre ... 51bda2d2d0

[falka]

Looks like we are officially chasing Jaksch

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-pre ... 51bda2d2d0

We need this type of player, would be great to use the Pre Season draft and get him for free. Still think we need another CHB who is young, but won't take 3 years to develop.
Especially with Bruce showing promise up forward.

Think swing men are the way forward inn modern game, thats why not sold on McCartin

So take Petracca pick 1 and I will be very happy.

Then an outside pacey mid at pick 21, very very happy

[Spinner]

Looks like we are officially chasing Jaksch

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-pre ... 51bda2d2d0

Wonder what we'll have to give up to get him.

Would be somewhere between a first rounder and a third rounder with the negotiating tool of the pre season draft.


Late second rounder I reckon.

[saint6709]

Looks like we are officially chasing Jaksch

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-pre ... 51bda2d2d0

Wonder what we'll have to give up to get him.

Would be somewhere between a first rounder and a third rounder with the negotiating tool of the pre season draft.


Late second rounder I reckon.

Is talk in the article about getting him for nothing - so will be interesting to see what happens

[PJ]

I'd be looking at trading Armo and pick 21 to Melb for pick 3. Get Petracca and McCartin in one go. Keep Joey so leadership group is Roo, Joey, Steven, Dempster, Fisher, Geary and perhaps keep Schneids.

Give Petracca no 8 and McCartin no 4.

Trading Armo would be too big a kick in the guts. (For me at any rate.) I just can't see us without him.
I would deeply mourn Joey's departure. But I can see some sense in it.

From that phantom draft, it looks like we could sneak a massive major forward even with pick 9
McCartin, Wright, Darcy Moore, Hugh Goddard all would be enormous gets.
The top drawer seems to go down to about pick 12.

Not that I know much about it.

Yeah the way I see it Armo will be pushing 30 in 4 years and will have lost a fair bit in terms of speed.

We will probably be still in that 4 to 6 win bracket next year with or without him so more game time for mids like Dunstan, Ross Petracca??, Weller.

I'd also like us to be still after top talent mids in next years draft and by all reports there are a couple that are pushing this years draftees already.

[maverick]

I'd be looking at trading Armo and pick 21 to Melb for pick 3. Get Petracca and McCartin in one go. Keep Joey so leadership group is Roo, Joey, Steven, Dempster, Fisher, Geary and perhaps keep Schneids.

Give Petracca no 8 and McCartin no 4.

Trading Armo would be too big a kick in the guts. (For me at any rate.) I just can't see us without him.
I would deeply mourn Joey's departure. But I can see some sense in it.

From that phantom draft, it looks like we could sneak a massive major forward even with pick 9
McCartin, Wright, Darcy Moore, Hugh Goddard all would be enormous gets.
The top drawer seems to go down to about pick 12.

Not that I know much about it.

Yeah the way I see it Armo will be pushing 30 in 4 years and will have lost a fair bit in terms of speed.

We will probably be still in that 4 to 6 win bracket next year with or without him so more game time for mids like Dunstan, Ross Petracca??, Weller.

I'd also like us to be still after top talent mids in next years draft and by all reports there are a couple that are pushing this years draftees already.

It's a decent point, same one used on Mcevoy for mine.
If we swapped Armo for Orourke say, would work for both clubs I reckon.
If we ended up with Petracca, Jackse (PSD), Orourke and DP18 odd and lose Armo, thats pretty good...

[matrix]

yeah id do that in a flash

yeah we love our blokes but sometimes they are in that age bracket that is just a bit too old for the next real tilt
joey is def in that group, and sadly armo just sneaks in too i reckon
i know its hard but if either went and we got decent picks
then do it

[gringo]

I'd be looking at trading Armo and pick 21 to Melb for pick 3. Get Petracca and McCartin in one go. Keep Joey so leadership group is Roo, Joey, Steven, Dempster, Fisher, Geary and perhaps keep Schneids.

Give Petracca no 8 and McCartin no 4.

Trading Armo would be too big a kick in the guts. (For me at any rate.) I just can't see us without him.
I would deeply mourn Joey's departure. But I can see some sense in it.

From that phantom draft, it looks like we could sneak a massive major forward even with pick 9
McCartin, Wright, Darcy Moore, Hugh Goddard all would be enormous gets.
The top drawer seems to go down to about pick 12.

Not that I know much about it.

Mc Kenzie is Reece Mc Kenzie. He's had a late surge of form and looks almost a better option than Mc Cartin. He's a big boy- around 100kegs and has had a few dominant games. He's your genuine bolter.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/r ... t.1071455/

Reece McKenzie
Height: 196cm
Weight: 100kg
From: Northern Knights, Vic Metro
Position: Forward​

Fresh off a 10 goal haul in the TAC Cup yesterday, Reece McKenzie is next up on my list of profiles. He's a player who isn't getting a lot of exposure, but one that I rate highly. All season, I've had McKenzie as a top 5 key forward in this draft and a likely second round draft pick. But it seems not all agree.

I'll start with his game yesterday - 18 disposals, 13 marks (6 of those contested), three goal assists, 10 goals and 4 behinds. A total of 256 Supercoach points for those of you keeping score. It is without the doubt the best game he has played, and will probably end up as the individual performance of the 2014 TAC Cup season. Hopefully it's the game that sees him take his game to the next level consistently, but even that one game would likely be enough to get him drafted. Although having said that, his other games this season haven't been bad by any means. McKenzie had kicked 8 goals in 5 games leading into the match, switching between full forward and the ruck. It's been good to see him get a chance to stretch his legs, as opposed to playing out of the goal square all match. He has shown enough to suggest that pinch hitting could be in his future if needed.

Unfortunately, it hasn't all been good news for McKenzie this year. Through a combination of injury and competition for spots, he only managed the one game for Vic Metro in the U18 Championships this year. Which I did find a little odd. I understand that the likes of Wright and Moore will be picked first, but he deserved more game time and showed more than enough in his one game to get another. And further exposure at the top level would have been a real positive for his development too. He didn't play any TAC Cup football last year, as he chose to instead focus on basketball, so in the grand scheme of things he is still relatively raw as a player.

Despite a limited viewing sample this year, the reason I'm confident that McKenzie will get a chance come November is because he is essentially the template for what clubs are looking for in a key forward - over 195cm, strong body, contested marker, athletic. He isn't going to run all day from a CHF position, but his basketball background has given him quite decent agility for someone his size and weight. And it's the contested marking that will really make teams take notice. Roughly half his marks in the TAC Cup this year have been contested ones. And being able to clunk a mark like that isn't something you can really teach, which gives him a massive advantage.

But, McKenzie isn't a sure thing by any means. And in picking him, you are largely picking someone on potential with only flashes of performance. That's always a risk, and can go either way. Clubs are always going to back their development programs though. Otherwise, his kicking is where he lets himself down quite a bit. As I said before, he had kicked 8 goals in his 5 games before this weekend. But, he'd also kicked 8 behinds and finished with another 4 to go with his ten goal haul. He'll need to improve that if he is to truly be a focal point up forward, and while he seems to know his limitations during general game play, some of his field kicking could stand to improve too. And like all key position players, consistency and fading in and out of games has been a slight issue this year.

Personally, I tend to think a lot of his weaknesses will be ironed out with a good 2-3 years of development at an AFL club. It's then just a matter of whether it all clicks, or if he remains one of those potentially great forwards who never quite make it. In terms of draft position, I could see him going anywhere from the second to the third round. It's not a great draft for genuine full forwards - you have McCartin, Wright and then some of the Academy boys. It's why I rate McKenzie as the third or fourth best on the open market. And with a strong finish to the season, there is no reason he couldn't sneak into the top 20 like Michael Apeness did last year. Teams will pay for a player like him.

[PJ]

Just on McKenzie - After watching Hawkins last night I like the idea of a big bodied forward that can bring you back in the game through brute strength.

Hawkins absolutely rag dolled Thompson in that last quarter in a matter of about 5 minutes to bring them back into the game.

On Armo - I absolutely love the guy and the strength he brings to the team IMO he is one of our best leaders and does a lot of things that goes unheralded, no question but its all about strategy for the future. Yes you need leaders but I think with a fit Joey we'll have that.

[PJ]

I really don't want us to give away the #1 pick in a trade unless we get something unbelievable. Petracca is a must unless you get someone of the calibre of Shiel and a top 10 pick.

So #1 is a keeper for mine.

[Animal Enclosure]

McKenzie is nowhere near McCartin. He's kicked bags against weak opposition & wasn't tested against the best of his peers (like Paddy was).

McK could go anywhere from the 2nd round on.

[gringo]

McKenzie is nowhere near McCartin. He's kicked bags against weak opposition & wasn't tested against the best of his peers (like Paddy was).

McK could go anywhere from the 2nd round on.

He obviously isn't a pick one contender but I could see us picking him with or second pick. He's a high risk high reward type like Spencer. Petracca and him would make a good combination. A grunt goal kicking mid and a big KPF. Mc cartin is obviously the best KPF in the draft but still has question marks that make him less tempting than Petracca. Mc Kenzie hasn't been given enough big games to dominate so you can only beat who you play.

[Munga]

Out of all the top draft prospects and trade whispers, Jaksch is the one I'm most bullish about. Quality tall, good kick.

[evertonfc]

The deal I'm starting to think we need to push for:

St Kilda gives up: Pick 1, Third Round Selection (Pick 37), James Gwilt.
GWS gives up: Pick 3, Kristian Jaksch, Jono O'Rourke.

With Josh Hunt retiring, Gwilt is basically the perfect addition to the Giants' back-half. I'm not saying his value is enormous, but he's a natural fit for GWS while others develop, mostly because he can play for 3-4 years still, not the 1-2 they have previously been getting.

It's arguable we're giving up a fair bit - pick one is always a huge thing - but it would enable us to snare two players who aren't going to see game time at GWS for whatever reason. O'Rourke is out of contract and his value suffers because of this (making the trade favorable to both parties, IMO)

O'Rourke, to my mind, won't ever be comfortable until he returns to Melbourne. A former Pick 2, barely two years ago, he clearly has buckets of talent but must be in the right environment. He would add instant class to our midfield and, I believe, develop into a very decent player. This video speaks volumes of his talent, but also of his concern about leaving Melbourne:

Jaksch is simply a victim of being behind three gun young forwards. But what I see, I like. A lot:

Add pick three, and we're bolstering our list with three key youngsters at a time when we desperately need to accumulate as much young talent as is humanly possible.

[Spinner]

I'd be looking at trading Armo and pick 21 to Melb for pick 3. Get Petracca and McCartin in one go. Keep Joey so leadership group is Roo, Joey, Steven, Dempster, Fisher, Geary and perhaps keep Schneids.

Give Petracca no 8 and McCartin no 4.

If we got pick 3 for Armo I would take that in a heart beat.

But we wont.

[Spinner]

The deal I'm starting to think we need to push for:

St Kilda gives up: Pick 1, Third Round Selection (Pick 37), James Gwilt.
GWS gives up: Pick 3, Kristian Jaksch, Jono O'Rourke.

With Josh Hunt retiring, Gwilt is basically the perfect addition to the Giants' back-half. I'm not saying his value is enormous, but he's a natural fit for GWS while others develop, mostly because he can play for 3-4 years still, not the 1-2 they have previously been getting.

It's arguable we're giving up a fair bit - pick one is always a huge thing - but it would enable us to snare two players who aren't going to see game time at GWS for whatever reason. O'Rourke is out of contract and his value suffers because of this (making the trade favorable to both parties, IMO)

O'Rourke, to my mind, won't ever be comfortable until he returns to Melbourne. A former Pick 2, barely two years ago, he clearly has buckets of talent but must be in the right environment. He would add instant class to our midfield and, I believe, develop into a very decent player. This video speaks volumes of his talent, but also of his concern about leaving Melbourne:

Jaksch is simply a victim of being behind three gun young forwards. But what I see, I like. A lot:

Add pick three, and we're bolstering our list with three key youngsters at a time when we desperately need to accumulate as much young talent as is humanly possible.

We win that trade by a long margin. Effectively Pick 1 for Pick 3, Jaksch and ORouke....former pick 12 and 2.

Gwilt is not a trade. Not sure why he is added. And pick 37 would probably come onto the GWS list as the least talented player comparative to everyone else. It means nothing to them.

Like the trade but it wont happen.

[bergholt]

O'Rourke, to my mind, won't ever be comfortable until he returns to Melbourne. A former Pick 2, barely two years ago, he clearly has buckets of talent but must be in the right environment.

How can you possibly tell that?

The jury has to still be a long way out on O'Rourke because he's played only 9 games in two years. He went at 2 in a heavily compromised draft. And anyway, once you're on an AFL list your draft position means nothing. Zac Williams was a late rookie pick the same year and he's played 19 games.

We win that trade by a long margin. Effectively Pick 1 for Pick 3, Jaksch and ORouke....former pick 12 and 2.

Not sure about that. The difference between 3 and 1 could be massive for GWS. 3 becomes 4 when Melbourne get their compensation. The two best mids (Petracca and Brayshaw) and McCartin will then likely go in the top three which leaves GWS choosing between big guys: Wright, Lever, Durdin, maybe Goddard. They already have a huge number of talls (hence Jaksch maybe leaving) so that makes it almost a wasted pick for them. Whereas if they get pick 1 then they get Petracca and pretty quickly he could be a really good point of difference for their midfield.

Who knows what they're thinking? But they could see pick 1 as twice as valuable for them as 3 and Jaksch and O'Rourke are basically useless to them. Everyone wins.

[WinnersOnly]

If we have to have 3 selections inside 21 I would prefer to lose Armitage than pick 1 (Petracca). Armo has a huge heart but restricted by his lack of geniune speed.

[WinnersOnly]

If we have to have 3 selections inside 21 I would prefer to lose Armitage than pick 1 (Petracca). Armo has a huge heart but restricted by his lack of geniune speed.

[WinnersOnly]

If we have to have 3 selections inside 21 I would prefer to lose Armitage than pick 1 (Petracca). Armo has a huge heart but restricted by his lack of geniune speed.

[lefty]

The deal I'm starting to think we need to push for:

St Kilda gives up: Pick 1, Third Round Selection (Pick 37), James Gwilt.
GWS gives up: Pick 3, Kristian Jaksch, Jono O'Rourke.

I think I'd be happy with that.

It just depends if you really want Petracca or not and as far as I can tell, GWS really want him, and their two fellas want out, so imo, we have the upper hand. If you don't want to give up pick 1, would Monty suffice? Hrm.

[SemperFidelis]

Out of all the top draft prospects and trade whispers, Jaksch is the one I'm most bullish about. Quality tall, good kick.

GWS took him with our pick 12 in the 2012 draft. The Tom Lee trade.

Serendipity?