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Beno88 wrote:What's this issue people have with receiving wooden spoons? They don't mean anything in modern footy.
Would you prefer to give up the 2000 wooden spoon and be without Nick Riewoldt for the last 14 seasons?
Wooden spoons mean nothing. Yes we finished last, yes we are the worst performed side for the season, but so what. Upside of a last place finish massively outweighs the disappointment of finishing last.
Do you think Gold Coast and GWS care that they began with wooden spoons? Did Brisbane care when they won it 1998? Did Collingwood care in 1999? No, they played each other in two Grand Finals less than 5 years later.
If you don't like finishing last, get over it, it's part of the modern footy rebuild, and our club is bloody good at a rebuild. (See '88 to '91, '94 to '97, '00 to '04)
Agree with everything you say. Poor clubs like ours are locked into the socialistic cycle the AFL has created and we are the only poor club that has not only benefited from it but we proved that it almost works.
People forget that if we had of won a flag then we would have been the first of the poor clubs to do so from the draft system since it was introduced. We have experience and expertise with building a flag from low draft picks and have established a reputation and culture capable of doing it in the past and so can't see why we won't do again in this next cycle. We aren't a rich club that can develop players like the Cats and Hawks so we have to go to the bottom of the well. It wouldn't bother me if we won the next two wooden spoons. It would mean we would become a top four side much quicker than any other way.
Well if the poor clubs are North, WB, Melb and Us then you statement is wrong because North won after the draft and the other 3 havent won for nearlt 50 years anyway so that statement is wrong. I would suggest poor clubs as you call them have done much better under the draft than before the draft. Not sure you have to be on the bottom for 3 years to do well. matter of fact i doubt any side has done that under the current system.
One of our clubs strongest periods started off with a few bottom 4s and a wooden spoon, would not have happened otherwise. We recruited very well, I say we are very good at rebuilding a list using the draft system, our recent history proves that. We need more wooden spoons or bottom 4 finishes. We are a snowflakes chance in hell of becoming a top 3 side again without a few more bottom 4 finishes and another wooden spoon or two won't hurt for good measure.
I'd much rather be the wooden spooner than 9th. The rewards is significantly better in the modern game.
I notice you didnt address your incorrect statement. Yep one of our best periods was when you also got PP which seem nearly impossible now. Its funny but during the year I would much rather finish 9th than 18th. That would mean hoping we are losing and strangly during the season I hope we win. When was the last bottom side to win a flag?
Hawthorn based their rebuild model on our now we are basing ours on theirs again. Bottoming out is a way to build a foundation of quality that can be dressed up later. Carlton are rebuilding a rebuild with out going anywhere.
gringo wrote:Hawthorn based their rebuild model on our now we are basing ours on theirs again. Bottoming out is a way to build a foundation of quality that can be dressed up later. Carlton are rebuilding a rebuild with out going anywhere.
We didnt base our rebuild on finishing last. We finished last because we are no good. Obviously now that we are last we have to rebuild this way. When was the last side to win a flag after finishing last? Maybe just in case we win to many games next year we should trade Jack and Armo and then we will certainly finish last. We may have no members but we can rebuild quicker.
Didn't the pies win the wooden spoon after their 2002/2003 campaign? with their bottom 4 finishes they picked up Swan and Penddles....theirs a flag right there in two players...
Who said we are hoping we lose, they are your words. When supporters say they would prefer 18th over 9th is something you say to console yourself with knowledge that there is a consolation prize. With the exception of the last game, I went into every game hoping we would win, I knew we probably wouldn't, but I can honestly say that when we were giving the Crows a bit of stick early in the game my heart was sinking because I knew it meant we would lose DP1.
Cairnsman wrote:came second last...close enough. got a handy player from that year.
Thank you. You dont have to finish last to rebuild. Have you found a side yet that finished last and then won the flag through that rebuild? Again there was PP There is basically no such thing now. At the start of next season are you hoping to finish 9th or 18th? Or 16th or 18th?
Cairnsman wrote:came second last...close enough. got a handy player from that year.
Thank you. You dont have to finish last to rebuild. Have you found a side yet that finished last and then won the flag through that rebuild? Again there was PP There is basically no such thing now. At the start of next season are you hoping to finish 9th or 18th? Or 16th or 18th?
Captain Wilson you are perfect example of what goes wrong when a child doesn't enter an early intervention program. I didn't say you HAVE to finish last, but IMO it could help a club like ours.
But to answer your question I am not hoping we finish anywhere next year but I'm going to have a wild guess that it will be bottom 2 and I don't mind the prospect of what that could do to our rebuild.
IMO we could be much better off in 5-7 years time if we have at least 10-12 first round DPs minimum. I'm basing that on what I think the new landscape will look like with the two new franchise teams being at or near their peek both fully ladened with 15 or so first round DPs.
Cairnsman wrote:came second last...close enough. got a handy player from that year.
Thank you. You dont have to finish last to rebuild. Have you found a side yet that finished last and then won the flag through that rebuild? Again there was PP There is basically no such thing now. At the start of next season are you hoping to finish 9th or 18th? Or 16th or 18th?
Captain Wilson you are perfect example of what goes wrong when a child doesn't enter an early intervention program. I didn't say you HAVE to finish last, but IMO it could help a club like ours.
But to answer your question I am not hoping we finish anywhere next year but I'm going to have a wild guess that it will be bottom 2 and I don't mind the prospect of what that could do to our rebuild.
IMO we could be much better off in 5-7 years time if we have at least 10-12 first round DPs minimum. I'm basing that on what I think the new landscape will look like with the two new franchise teams being at or near their peek both fully ladened with 15 or so first round DPs.
You said we have to go to the bottom and it wouldnt worry you if we won the next 2 wooden spoons. Doesnt sound like anything but last to me. The one thing I will give you CM is are consistent. You never answer questions and try and get out of what you say by talking rubbish. I dont think I said you have to finish last by the way but facts arent huge when you try and discuss things. I know we will most likely finish last next season but im hoping we finish much higher. I would have thought most people think like this. Anyway got any answers to that side that won the flag after finishing last? Are you there?
Cairnsman wrote:came second last...close enough. got a handy player from that year.
Thank you. You dont have to finish last to rebuild. Have you found a side yet that finished last and then won the flag through that rebuild? Again there was PP There is basically no such thing now. At the start of next season are you hoping to finish 9th or 18th? Or 16th or 18th?
Captain Wilson you are perfect example of what goes wrong when a child doesn't enter an early intervention program. I didn't say you HAVE to finish last, but IMO it could help a club like ours.
But to answer your question I am not hoping we finish anywhere next year but I'm going to have a wild guess that it will be bottom 2 and I don't mind the prospect of what that could do to our rebuild.
IMO we could be much better off in 5-7 years time if we have at least 10-12 first round DPs minimum. I'm basing that on what I think the new landscape will look like with the two new franchise teams being at or near their peek both fully ladened with 15 or so first round DPs.
You said we have to go to the bottom and it wouldnt worry you if we won the next 2 wooden spoons. Doesnt sound like anything but last to me. The one thing I will give you CM is are consistent. You never answer questions and try and get out of what you say by talking rubbish. I dont think I said you have to finish last by the way but facts arent huge when you try and discuss things. I know we will most likely finish last next season but im hoping we finish much higher. I would have thought most people think like this. Anyway got any answers to that side that won the flag after finishing last? Are you there?
Come on Wilson, you don't always have to fit every discussion into neat little right and wrong boxes. What happens when you hit a crack on the footpath?
Would we have been the team we were in the past decade without Roo...nup...how did we get Roo...by being motherless bottom last.
Throw in Kosi, Goddard and all the other first rounders...proves the point doesn't it.
Kosi was a PP. Doesnt exist anymore. We didnt finish last when we got BJ. Still waiting on a basic answer. By the way are North a rich club? Another question just ignored. easy.
plugger66 wrote:Kosi was a PP. Doesnt exist anymore. We didnt finish last when we got BJ. Still waiting on a basic answer. By the way are North a rich club? Another question just ignored. easy.
The PP still exists, the rules relating to it have changed, well that is my understanding and just as Melbourne applied for it this season I'm pretty sure we will apply for it next year. It will be great to get a PP and the 1st DP if we end up motherless last. You would have to be you to argue against that being a good thing.
When North won their flags the draft system was different, if my memory serves me well there were still players in the comp that had been recruited under a completely different set of rules, mainly I think the old zone system was still run in conjunction with the new draft system, well it was pretty new back in the late 80s and early 90s which I'm guessing is the era in which most of North's premiership players were from.
I even seem to remember circa 2004 the media promoting the fact that we would be the first team to win a flag under the new draft system.
plugger66 wrote:Kosi was a PP. Doesnt exist anymore. We didnt finish last when we got BJ. Still waiting on a basic answer. By the way are North a rich club? Another question just ignored. easy.
The PP still exists, the rules relating to it have changed, well that is my understanding and just as Melbourne applied for it this season I'm pretty sure we will apply for it next year. It will be great to get a PP and the 1st DP if we end up motherless last. You would have to be you to argue against that being a good thing.
When North won their flags the draft system was different, if my memory serves me well there were still players in the comp that had been recruited under a completely different set of rules, mainly I think the old zone system was still run in conjunction with the new draft system, well it was pretty new back in the late 80s and early 90s which I'm guessing is the era in which most of North's premiership players were from.
I even seem to remember circa 2004 the media promoting the fact that we would be the first team to win a flag under the new draft system.
Keep on missing the cracks!
Always excuses. I know you dont get much AFL news up in that part of the world but the AFL basically said PP were for events out of the ordinary like a player dying or such. Mark Evans said he doubted melbourne are a chance so I dont we have any chance next year unless we dont win a game. I hope we win 22 and if we cant do that then 21 then 20 and so on. I hope we dont come last. You come up with that side that finished last and won the flag yet. You are allowed to say there hasnt been one.
plugger66 wrote:Kosi was a PP. Doesnt exist anymore. We didnt finish last when we got BJ. Still waiting on a basic answer. By the way are North a rich club? Another question just ignored. easy.
The PP still exists, the rules relating to it have changed, well that is my understanding and just as Melbourne applied for it this season I'm pretty sure we will apply for it next year. It will be great to get a PP and the 1st DP if we end up motherless last. You would have to be you to argue against that being a good thing.
When North won their flags the draft system was different, if my memory serves me well there were still players in the comp that had been recruited under a completely different set of rules, mainly I think the old zone system was still run in conjunction with the new draft system, well it was pretty new back in the late 80s and early 90s which I'm guessing is the era in which most of North's premiership players were from.
I even seem to remember circa 2004 the media promoting the fact that we would be the first team to win a flag under the new draft system.
Keep on missing the cracks!
Always excuses. I know you dont get much AFL news up in that part of the world but the AFL basically said PP were for events out of the ordinary like a player dying or such. Mark Evans said he doubted melbourne are a chance so I dont we have any chance next year unless we dont win a game. I hope we win 22 and if we cant do that then 21 then 20 and so on. I hope we dont come last. You come up with that side that finished last and won the flag yet. You are allowed to say there hasnt been one.
Not sure where up in that part of the world is, you seem to have some mysterious psychic powers and know where I live. Also not sure what you mean by excuses...as I say, the draft system was design for poor clubs like ours and we seem to know how to use it well. We were nearly the first poor club to win a flag using the current draft system.
CM you are a consistent never answer person when you make silly statements. How hard is it to find out if a side who finished last has won a flag in the rebuild. I think the answer is no one has done it. Dont you live in Cairns? Or have you moved to the great state Of Victoria? Excuses why you always seem to be wrong. By the way how did that comment go about the players not rating SW. I think we had about 5 pages on that and it proved correct then we had about 5 pages on percentage that was correct. Please dont bore people here about another silly thing. Anyway you have the last say. I love a laugh.
Agree we don't need or want wooden spoons. A club hoping number one draft pick is a solution is a club in trouble, now AND in the future. Success comes from winning, a successful club is one that always looks to win and always looks to improve.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
The AFL was formed in 1990, 25 seasons ago. Bris bears/lions,Carlton, Melbourne and Sydney have 3 wooden spoons. St.Kilda, Fitzroy, GWS and Richmond 2 spoons and Collingwood, Western Bulldogs, West Coast, Fremantle and Gold Coast have 1 each. So we've got a second spoon big deal. Two in 25 years is not that bad!
rodrocket wrote:The AFL was formed in 1990, 25 seasons ago. Bris bears/lions,Carlton, Melbourne and Sydney have 3 wooden spoons. St.Kilda, Fitzroy, GWS and Richmond 2 spoons and Collingwood, Western Bulldogs, West Coast, Fremantle and Gold Coast have 1 each. So we've got a second spoon big deal. Two in 25 years is not that bad!
no it's not. but the argument here revolves around whether we should see it as a good thing. two is still two more than our number of afl flags. no way would i want another.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
desertsaint wrote:Agree we don't need or want wooden spoons. A club hoping number one draft pick is a solution is a club in trouble, now AND in the future. Success comes from winning, a successful club is one that always looks to win and always looks to improve.
We are in trouble and it has been brewing for a few years now.
I think many people aren't exactly hoping for wooden spoons, but if we are going to be terrible and only win a handful of games, then we might take some consolation in having first pick at the best young talent in the draft.
Finishing 18th with 4 wins doesn't feel any worse to me than finishing 15-17th with 5 or 6 wins, though I can understand peoples anguish.
plugger66 wrote:CM you are a consistent never answer person when you make silly statements. How hard is it to find out if a side who finished last has won a flag in the rebuild. I think the answer is no one has done it. Dont you live in Cairns? Or have you moved to the great state Of Victoria? Excuses why you always seem to be wrong. By the way how did that comment go about the players not rating SW. I think we had about 5 pages on that and it proved correct then we had about 5 pages on percentage that was correct. Please dont bore people here about another silly thing. Anyway you have the last say. I love a laugh.
I'd say you are undiagnosed. Classic symptoms. I notice you haven't commented on the North thing.
plugger66 wrote:CM you are a consistent never answer person when you make silly statements. How hard is it to find out if a side who finished last has won a flag in the rebuild. I think the answer is no one has done it. Dont you live in Cairns? Or have you moved to the great state Of Victoria? Excuses why you always seem to be wrong. By the way how did that comment go about the players not rating SW. I think we had about 5 pages on that and it proved correct then we had about 5 pages on percentage that was correct. Please dont bore people here about another silly thing. Anyway you have the last say. I love a laugh.
I'd say you are undiagnosed. Classic symptoms. I notice you haven't commented on the North thing.
And I notice Cairnsman you haven't commented (apologised) on the calling of SainterK 'a liar' in the thread on Milera....when 2 Mods showed that you were incorrect with your scurrilous accusation of SainterK.
Sorry to highjack your discussion "plugger66"................ carry on
plugger66 wrote:CM you are a consistent never answer person when you make silly statements. How hard is it to find out if a side who finished last has won a flag in the rebuild. I think the answer is no one has done it. Dont you live in Cairns? Or have you moved to the great state Of Victoria? Excuses why you always seem to be wrong. By the way how did that comment go about the players not rating SW. I think we had about 5 pages on that and it proved correct then we had about 5 pages on percentage that was correct. Please dont bore people here about another silly thing. Anyway you have the last say. I love a laugh.
I'd say you are undiagnosed. Classic symptoms. I notice you haven't commented on the North thing.
And I notice Cairnsman you haven't commented (apologised) on the calling of SainterK 'a liar' in the thread on Milera....when 2 Mods showed that you were incorrect with your scurrilous accusation of SainterK.
Sorry to highjack your discussion "plugger66"................ carry on
Sainternist wrote:North Melbourne never finish last and it means a HELL OF A LOT. If a club like North finishes last it could be a nail in their coffin in this 21st century corporate-cutthroat era of the game.
You never see the Bummers finish last.
Commentators just mentioned that it's 7 years since north last won a final & 10 years since essendon won a final
I'll take our highs and lows any day over these two mediocre-defining plebs, both of which would be lucky to even make the finals without 2 players we handed to them on a platter.
