Saints homeward bound!!

[dragit]

all good
everyone can call it the junction except you pluggs
yeah sure its across the road or whatever
but for christ sake its as close to getting home as we will prob get so everyone will call it the J.O

nothing wrong with that imo

We can call it GARFJO

the Ground Across the Road From the Junction Oval

[plugger66]

Thats an if and I hope you are right. The main thing that must happen for us to move is the facilities are better. Money is nice but we must keep up with all the other sides and try and get ahead of some of them. I dont have an objections about the move at all. As long as people realise it isnt the JO and there will never be any AFL games played there.

Agree - must ensure facilities are better. Absolutely no compromise.

Also agree with you that there won't ever be AFL games played there.

If the AFL were ever going to revive an inner-city Melbourne venue, they would use Princes Park. Half the cost as most of the infrastructure is already there.

Ballarat will be the next AFL stadium in Victoria - Vic clubs will end up hosting games there against interstate sides.

I think it should be called FoxPark.
Sounds better lol!

Does this effect the Saints ressies team and where we will play, or is Moorabbin still on the agenda?

It really shouldnt based on what Shaun Graff just said on SEN. He still said there is long way to go but he didnt sound hopeful. You would think timeframes would suggest that if we are going to have our own reserves in 2017 then Moorabbin development would need to start before the st Kilda area starts.

[plugger66]

all good
everyone can call it the junction except you pluggs
yeah sure its across the road or whatever
but for christ sake its as close to getting home as we will prob get so everyone will call it the J.O

nothing wrong with that imo

You seem angry. Im sure our new sponsor, if there is one, wont want it called JO but hey if you dont want to support the club than thats fine. Each to their own but if we get the ground up and running and we get a main sponsor like Linfox I will be calling it Linfox centre or something similar.

[Austinnn]

I reckon there should be a bridge that connects the training facilities to the Ian Johnson Oval, Qatar Airlines Oval, LinFox Oval or whatever it will be called. And that bridge should be adorned with a bloody great big St Kilda FC shield so anyone driving down Lakeside drive would get an eyeful.

You've got to laugh at anyone doubting that the move will boost our profile. I haven't been to Australia recently, but I'm pretty sure Queen's Parade and Fitzroy St are a bit busier than any road halfway down the Mornington peninsula. That area doesn't just get direct traffic, it gets loads of connecting traffic, plus pedestrians.

The 8 years I lived in Melbourne, I visited or passed through the Junction 100s of times. I never went anywhere near Seaford. I visited Moorabbin but only cos of the Saints. I also passed Richmond's home at the Punt Road end frequently, and if the Saints had folded, I probably would have become a Tigers fan (bullet dodged there!)

Like it or not, St Kilda/The Junction is slap bang in the middle of a rich area, and to have a stronger identity in that area is key to tapping into that market. You can't deny that people have a better chance of becoming Saints fans if they feel that it represents 'their patch'.

It is GREAT to for the inner suburbs south of the river to have a club identity again, which has been lacking since South Melbourne became Sydney. These places would finally have a local AFL club, a place where kids could grow up watching their players train, etc; Albert Park, South Yarra and Toorak, Prahran, Balaclava, Elwood, Armadale, Brighton, Elsternwick, and of course the fantastic multi-suburb of St Kilda, temporary home to backpackers from all over the world and favourite hangout of trendy muso/fashion types that might just help us with our image, which for many people is intrinsically linked to a certain ex-player and club legend's ongoing courtcase and the club's support for him, not to mention the schoolgirl scandal.

Eric Bana has helped us a bit with our image - didn't Jason Holmes say recently that he first heard of the Saints on a film that Bana made? - and so does the Sacred Heart/Espy Rockdogs annual footy match and there are a few other high profile supporters, but we're still not really a trendy club. I'm sure you guys don't give a continental about that, but impressionable youngsters do, and we have been considering for a long time where the next generation of supporters is going to come from.

Even in the recent years when we were a powerful and successful team (as much as you can be without winning a cup), we still didn't become a lot more popular. If we can get it right again on field, and boost our local identity at the same time, we have a big chance of increasing our profile enough to at least survive without handouts. Remember that Jake Niall article from earlier this year that compared Hawthorn to St Kilda since 1997. It can be turned around, we've finally got people on board who are pros and insiders.

We have to at least try. We will be forgotten and disguarded if we don't.

[saint6709]

I reckon there should be a bridge that connects the training facilities to the Ian Johnson Oval, Qatar Airlines Oval, LinFox Oval or whatever it will be called. And that bridge should be adorned with a bloody great big St Kilda FC shield so anyone driving down Lakeside drive would get an eyeful.

You've got to laugh at anyone doubting that the move will boost our profile. I haven't been to Australia recently, but I'm pretty sure Queen's Parade and Fitzroy St are a bit busier than any road halfway down the Mornington peninsula. That area doesn't just get direct traffic, it gets loads of connecting traffic, plus pedestrians.

The 8 years I lived in Melbourne, I visited or passed through the Junction 100s of times. I never went anywhere near Seaford. I visited Moorabbin but only cos of the Saints. I also passed Richmond's home at the Punt Road end frequently, and if the Saints had folded, I probably would have become a Tigers fan (bullet dodged there!)

Like it or not, St Kilda/The Junction is slap bang in the middle of a rich area, and to have a stronger identity in that area is key to tapping into that market. You can't deny that people have a better chance of becoming Saints fans if they feel that it represents 'their patch'.

It is GREAT to for the inner suburbs south of the river to have a club identity again, which has been lacking since South Melbourne became Sydney. These places would finally have a local AFL club, a place where kids could grow up watching their players train, etc; Albert Park, South Yarra and Toorak, Prahran, Balaclava, Elwood, Armadale, Brighton, Elsternwick, and of course the fantastic multi-suburb of St Kilda, temporary home to backpackers from all over the world and favourite hangout of trendy muso/fashion types that might just help us with our image, which for many people is intrinsically linked to a certain ex-player and club legend's ongoing courtcase and the club's support for him, not to mention the schoolgirl scandal.

Eric Bana has helped us a bit with our image - didn't Jason Holmes say recently that he first heard of the Saints on a film that Bana made? - and so does the Sacred Heart/Espy Rockdogs annual footy match and there are a few other high profile supporters, but we're still not really a trendy club. I'm sure you guys don't give a continental about that, but impressionable youngsters do, and we have been considering for a long time where the next generation of supporters is going to come from.

Even in the recent years when we were a powerful and successful team (as much as you can be without winning a cup), we still didn't become a lot more popular. If we can get it right again on field, and boost our local identity at the same time, we have a big chance of increasing our profile enough to at least survive without handouts. Remember that Jake Niall article from earlier this year that compared Hawthorn to St Kilda since 1997. It can be turned around, we've finally got people on board who are pros and insiders.

We have to at least try. We will be forgotten and disguarded if we don't.

[saint6709]

+1

[Sobraz]

It's all about visibility and presence.
At the moment we have none. Less than none, Seaford actually carries a negative connotation.
At the Junction, or specifically the park next door to the Junction, we'll be a great big red white and black landmark that will fuse into the minds of those that pass by. Millions of sets of eyes per year.
New Australians, people not familiar with football, those looking to increase their interest. We will have a significant image, which goes a long way to enhancing our brand.
It is essential that this goes ahead.
(note: the fact I live in St.Kilda and walk the dog down that way daily has nothing to do with my reasoning )

[plugger66]

It's all about visibility and presence.
At the moment we have none. Less than none, Seaford actually carries a negative connotation.
At the Junction, or specifically the park next door to the Junction, we'll be a great big red white and black landmark that will fuse into the minds of those that pass by. Millions of sets of eyes per year.
New Australians, people not familiar with football, those looking to increase their interest. We will have a significant image, which goes a long way to enhancing our brand.
It is essential that this goes ahead.
(note: the fact I live in St.Kilda and walk the dog down that way daily has nothing to do with my reasoning )

That all makes sense but why are hawthorn bigger than ever? Nothing will really help us until we start winning IMO. A kid isnt going to follow us because of training in St Kilda and that is where you get initial support from.

[Austinnn]

That all makes sense but why are hawthorn bigger than ever? Nothing will really help us until we start winning IMO. A kid isnt going to follow us because of training in St Kilda and that is where you get initial support from.

I respectfully disagree with your second point, but partially concede the first:

If we only move but don't start winning, we're sunk. IF we don't move and don't start winning we're also sunk.
If we start winning, but don't move, we may just survive, but will be in strife again if we ever stop winning. Basically, it'll be like now but the AFL won't go into bat for us again. Maybe we'll be forced to become the NZ Saints or something.
If we start winning and continue winning for a long period, but don't move, we will be ok, but still with a low profile. Probsbly like the Hawks now. That's probably ok for a lot of you, I suppose.
If we move and start winning, we can generate a profile that can exceed our history, boost membership far more than the Seaford Saints could (see above rant), something that can generate enough income to keep our facilities state of the art, hire the best people, play at the big table with the AFL and basically evolve. Forget the Hawks, we'll far surpass them, be closer to Pies, though it's hard to believe. Iconic club/locale, internationally used colours/name/anthem, recognised worldwide. Southampton, New Orleans, etc. We should aim to be better than the best, not as good, because they will be looking to strengthen too.

It is a risk, and as Bernard says, the reason we left JO in the first place is because we were being shackled by cricket authority. Our new home also needs to be built as a mecca to supporters, not just a training centre. Another poster said that he feels unwelcome at the current place, there has to be the opposite feeling at the new place. The club has to remember that the club relies on its fans, without whom they wouldn't exist. I'm not talking about players mingling with the natives at the New Saints Disco, but certainly at least a museum, a shop, cafe, standard supporter areas that most football/soccer clubs have. Build it and they will come. Not a disgusting pokies room to fleece the poor, but commercial enterprises that give as well as take.

Once we have been there for a while and created a bit of history there, we can even do tours of the place. I have been on tours of Nue Camp and Anfield; I know we are a long way from those clubs, but it was thrilling. I even remember the first time I went to Linton St HQ of Saints in the 90s. I was so excited to be there, and to walk around, it's a shame there wasn't much to see, don't remember any museum or anything, just a sad little trophy case. I have to say, I left a little disappointed. Our history isn't a glorious one, but it is an interesting story, one worth telling. We can make our home so much more than a training centre, and I hope that that is on the table in The Windowless Room.


The alternative is to stay at Seaford and wait for the suburban spread to make it a happening spot.

[St Lenny]

Don't get to excited. This is not confirmed by St Kilda.

[Con Gorozidis]

Great post Austinn.

Absolutely awesome post. Museum, cafe etc would be just tremendous. And using the examples you used is showing you undertand what a global football marketplace we now find ourselves in. At Seaford we will eventually perish if we stay there. I am almost certain of that.

As you rightly point out - St Kilda in St Kilda at least it gives us a realistic chance.

Even if we have a good side from 2018-2022 and have a few good years at Seaford - we simply wont grow enough there and in 10 years time we will simply be back where we are now - but there wont be a Saints man in at AFL headquarters and we cant rely on AFL support - we could easily end up in NZ or Tassie or something in that situation.

The hawks example isnt great. The hawks had 5 flags from 83 to 91! FIVE! A heck of a lot of kids started barracking for them during that period.Those kids are now adults with little kids and incomes. Add to that the 'centre' of Melbourne population is Glen Iris. So the Hawks are very very well placed geographically - even with that move a little further Sth east. They were probably even able to grow their market a little sth east. But the fact is people move around and change suburbs when they have kids etc. The key is to get new lots of kids barracking for you. if you stay the same - you are going backwards. You do that by winning games and creating a culture on and off field. But you cant fake that with cheap gimmicks and crap videos.

In any case - we cant be jumping at shadows trying to copy the hawks or cats or swans - it wont work. It will always be a sh*t xerox after the fact. We need to do whats best for us and move with or ahead of the times - not slavishly freaking out trying to copy whoever is on top this year.

We need our own SOUL. And that soul can possibly be found in St Kilda.

[Con Gorozidis]

Speaking of personal agendas. I think it is the naysayers who have the most personal agenda of all on this issue.

people like plugger like the status quo because they feel safe and comfortable where we are.
Yes we are small and s*** and Running a risk of extinction but theu feel it is 'their' small and s*** club.

Change and the possibility of new and wider cosmopolitan audiences scares some people because they would rather we remained s*** than have to share us with others.

Fear fear and fear of success.

[Con Gorozidis]

Speaking of personal agendas. I think it is the naysayers who have the most personal agenda of all on this issue.

people like plugger like the status quo because they feel safe and comfortable where we are.
Yes we are small and s*** and Running a risk of extinction but theu feel it is 'their' small and s*** club.

Change and the possibility of new and wider cosmopolitan audiences scares some people because they would rather we remained s*** than have to share us with others.

Some fear wider success for what they might lose personally.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Another reason the location is important:

In coming years a club like St Kilda, without COLAs and preferential treatment, will only be truly competitive if it holds onto its star players at less than market value.

That means the players need to ENJOY going to work. JO fulfils that need much more so that Seaford. It's just one factor, true, but it's not insignificant.

[plugger66]

Speaking of personal agendas. I think it is the naysayers who have the most personal agenda of all on this issue.

people like plugger like the status quo because they feel safe and comfortable where we are.
Yes we are small and s*** and Running a risk of extinction but theu feel it is 'their' small and s*** club.

Change and the possibility of new and wider cosmopolitan audiences scares some people because they would rather we remained s*** than have to share us with others.

Fear fear and fear of success.

You make things up Con. Im not happy at all with where we are at but unlike you I dont lose all common sense. I have said since the day we went to Seaford it doesnt matter where we train and I still stand by that. If the ground over the road from the JO has better facilities then we would be mad not to go there. If they are worse we would be mad to go there but you would think they will be better so all. People can think of the positives of the move but unless we win nothing will change. As I have pointed out new support usually has to start with the kids and I am worried that the St Kilda area isnt renowned for a kid population and as a matter of fact probably has move people move in and out of that area more than any other area in Melbourne and most of those people will already have a side. And Con you still need to stop mentioning my name to the crowd. Have the courage to post without doing that. It makes you sound insecure which I think you already are.

[saint6709]

Still nothing on the saints website ?? Not even to acknowledge an article has been written ?

[Dave McNamara]

The alternative is to stay at Seaford and wait for the suburban spread to make it a happening spot.

Nice big backyard you have Pluggs, but needs some greenery.

I like your funny blue hat too.

[HitTheBoundary]

Absolutely awesome post. Museum, cafe etc would be just tremendous. And using the examples you used is showing you undertand what a global football marketplace we now find ourselves in. At Seaford we will eventually perish if we stay there. I am almost certain of that.

Agreed. All of that would be great.

But where will it go? CricVic plans to have all of those things in their facility, so where would we be able to put it?
Here is a photo of their envisaged facility.


Once again, I am not against the move, I'm merely playing devils advocate in the hope that the Saints push for a total deal, not just a left over dogs breakfast.

[Dave McNamara]

Forget the Hawks, we'll far surpass them, be closer to Pies, though it's hard to believe.
Iconic club/locale, internationally used colours/name/anthem, recognised worldwide. Southampton, New Orleans, etc. We should aim to be better than the best, not as good, because they will be looking to strengthen too.

A fantastic post Austinnnnnn!

Yes, we have a choice.

You make some excellent points about continuing as we are now...
would mean the risk of struggling to even survive, and a best case scenario of just bumping along as a minor low-profile (and hence non-indispensable) club.

Or...

We could tap into what we have, and no body else does... as Con put it so well... our SOUL.

Do that, do it right, and I see us ending up the best known, highest profile, most marketable Australian sporting club, both domestically, and... internationally!

Yes, forget the Dawks, but I also say, FORGET COLLINGWOOD!

The nation, and the world, will come to know of the wonderful, unique, unconventional, idiosyncratic and way cool l'enfant terrible, that is our beloved mighty St Kilda Football Club, imbedded within the community that is its birthplace, the iconic suburb of St Kilda.

[plugger66]

Forget the Hawks, we'll far surpass them, be closer to Pies, though it's hard to believe.
Iconic club/locale, internationally used colours/name/anthem, recognised worldwide. Southampton, New Orleans, etc. We should aim to be better than the best, not as good, because they will be looking to strengthen too.

A fantastic post Austinnnnnn!

Yes, we have a choice.

You make some excellent points about continuing as we are now...
would mean the risk of struggling to even survive, and a best case scenario of just bumping along as a minor low-profile (and hence non-indispensable) club.

Or...

We could tap into what we have, and no body else does... as Con put it so well... our SOUL.

Do that, do it right, and I see us ending up the best known, highest profile, most marketable Australian sporting club, both domestically, and... internationally!

Yes, forget the Dawks, but I also say, FORGET COLLINGWOOD!

The nation, and the world, will come to know of the wonderful, unique, unconventional, idiosyncratic and way cool l'enfant terrible, that is our beloved mighty St Kilda Football Club, imbedded within the community that is its birthplace, the iconic suburb of St Kilda.

Sounds great but its only words. Still cant see why people will join our club because we are training in St Kilda. Arent kids usually the new members and dont most kids live further out from St Kilda. Yep our profile will rise but if we arent winning we arent getting new members. Whats to say we dont lose many new members from the Seaford area. Hopefully we make many more dollars off sponsorship of the new training area but I cant see the membership changing much at all because of the training area. My soul is with Moorabbin but not because we trained there but because thats where I saw us play in my younger days. The St Kilda area means jack to me as far as the saints are concerned. Hope it means more to new supporters and ones that have thrown there support away.

[loris]

Well at least with all the café/ coffee shops available for the Saints players to slurp at around St Kilda................ we should solve the current problems of the Saints being slow out of the blocks in first quarters.

With all the caffine in their systems, they should be truly hyped up for the first quarters

[Dr Spaceman]

Well at least with all the café/ coffee shops available for the Saints players to slurp at around St Kilda................ we should solve the current problems of the Saints being slow out of the blocks in first quarters.

With all the caffine in their systems, they should be truly hyped up for the first quarters

Plenty of cake shops too Loris.

Let's hope they don't all turn in to Rene Kinks as that may slow them down a little bit

[The Fireman]

Sounds great but its only words. Still cant see why people will join our club because we are training in St Kilda. Arent kids usually the new members and dont most kids live further out from St Kilda. Yep our profile will rise but if we arent winning we arent getting new members. Whats to say we dont lose many new members from the Seaford area. Hopefully we make many more dollars off sponsorship of the new training area but I cant see the membership changing much at all because of the training area. My soul is with Moorabbin but not because we trained there but because thats where I saw us play in my younger days. The St Kilda area means jack to me as far as the saints are concerned. Hope it means more to new supporters and ones that have thrown there support away.

I'm trying to understand why you are so negative towards a move to the JO. So many positive reasons by so many have been put up yet you still choose to be negative, do you live in Seaford or close by ?
You seem to have whittled your argument down to how many supporters it will attract, which is at least something but means little as membership numbers change would be negligible no matter where we train. you have already said Winning games will do that.
I have never lived in StKilda but have been a fan since I was a kid living in Coburg....a long long time ago. Travelled to Moorrabin each week.
Imagine my delight when we moved to Etihad Stadium.
StKilda in StKilda....got a nice ring to it.

But don't stop being negative Plug, it seems to be your sig.

[plugger66]

Sounds great but its only words. Still cant see why people will join our club because we are training in St Kilda. Arent kids usually the new members and dont most kids live further out from St Kilda. Yep our profile will rise but if we arent winning we arent getting new members. Whats to say we dont lose many new members from the Seaford area. Hopefully we make many more dollars off sponsorship of the new training area but I cant see the membership changing much at all because of the training area. My soul is with Moorabbin but not because we trained there but because thats where I saw us play in my younger days. The St Kilda area means jack to me as far as the saints are concerned. Hope it means more to new supporters and ones that have thrown there support away.

I'm trying to understand why you are so negative towards a move to the JO. So many positive reasons by so many have been put up yet you still choose to be negative, do you live in Seaford or close by ?
You seem to have whittled your argument down to how many supporters it will attract, which is at least something but means little as membership numbers would change would be neglible no matter where we train. you have already said Winning games will do that.
I have never lived in StKilda but have been a fan since I was a kid living in Coburg....a long long time ago. Travelled to Moorrabin each week.
Imagine my delight when we moved to Etihad Stadium.
StKilda in StKilda....got a nice ring to it.

But don't stop being negative Plug, it seems to be your sig.

Firstly I live no where near Seaford but live about 5 Ks from Moorbabbin but if we trained in Moorabbin i would never go. The days of watching training are well and truely over for me so where we train makes no difference as I have said from the day we moved to Seaford. Also im not against the move to the ground outside the JO as long as the facilites are better which I would certainly expect. All i am saying is if people think this is going to solve and our membership, money or ability problems then I think they are wrong. And im actually not negative at all. I actually get accused with siding with the club all the time so I dont thats negative. i also never blame umpires, the AFL, TV and so on and to some that comes across as negative. I would say those who blame things like that are the negitive ones. Do you honestly think moving to St Kilda will make us bigger than the Hawks or the pies? Its just words. last time we were at the JO we never won a thing and were still poorly supported. Now seen as you think im always negative there must be many examples of this but im doubting there are many at all. Go for it Firey. Show me all of them apart from this topic which I still dont think is negative but realistic.

[Junction Oval]

What JO will give us, is the "opportunity" to resurrect our Club - be mainstream again. Better facilities close to the City will give us a higher profile, attract Sponsors, perhaps a real Social Club, be better for Players. More uncontracted A1 players from other clubs, may be keen to cross-over on seeing our "resurrection."

Who knows about playing a game there against interstate teams. it doesn't really matter, but would be nice if it could occur.