Maybe Burkie is onto something......

[Cairnsman]

I was recently in Melbourne for the first time for years. Just for one weekend. I stayed with my friends in Newport and on Saturday afternoon wandered down to Spotswood to see ladder position #1 vs #2 in the WRFL.

A crowd of about 500 maybe. Stood in front of the 'Woodsmen'. The Spotswood regulars.

It was more entertaining, more real, more authentic, less manufactured than any AFL match I've been to in the last ten years.
There was no pre-game advertising schtick. No bloody ground announcer coming on the moment the siren sounds telling me the score.
"Hey F*** wit, I've been watching the game and marking the scores down in my $5 record, I know the bloody score. Can we even have a moments peace to contemplate what's gone before and what's to come?"
Nup. Fill every available second with commercial crap and club 'branding'. Just being the club isn't enough, we've got to 'sell the brand'.

At Spotty, at the end of each quarter there was time to get a a cup of hot chips and a coffee, people having conversations about the game or their lives, you could even wander out and stand in the huddle feeling like an interloper. I stood with Deer Park, whose team featured Brent Guerra, Ryan Houlihan, Ryan Hargrave, James Condos and Brett Thornton, (No wonder they're unbeaten on top of the ladder), partly to hear what the coach had to say and partly to just be amongst the atmosphere of the players and their world. Took me back to when I used to stand in a huddle surrounded by people, sucking oranges and having liniment rubbed on my calves, when I played.
Half time featured kids and dads running around playing kick to kick and having banana shots from impossible angles.
At the end of one quarter, I changed ends just so I could watch the battle between the Spotty backline and the Deer Park forwards, then half way through the next I wandered back around to where I'd started.

Romanticism I know, but this was real footy and the standard was pretty good. No commercialised, manufactured, homogenised bland out. Passionate supporters shouting out very politically incorrect things, a substantial amount of 'language' and you could hear the thwack of the hip and shoulders and boot to ball just a few metres over the boundary line.

I'm sorry, but I actually prefer that experience to going to the AFL.

I reckon you have nailed the a growing sentiment SB. Also talk to anyone that goes the AFL games held in regional areas of Australia where you can stand in the outer and you soon get the feeling that the AFL needs to be careful it doesn't kill the golden goose.

I reckon a small Boutique ground in Victoria that gets back to the old suburban basics would be hugely successful.

[Cairnsman]

Here's an idea...the AFL should hold a 'Suburban' theme round next year.

Sell VB in steel cans and set up BBQs in the outer that are belting out the snags in white bread....would be a massive hit.

[satchmo]

Here's an idea...the AFL should hold a 'Suburban' theme round next year.

Sell VB in steel cans and set up BBQs in the outer that are belting out the snags in white bread....would be a massive hit.

Or you could just go to the local footy. And it is a massive hit!

[spert]

Here's an idea...the AFL should hold a 'Suburban' theme round next year.

Sell VB in steel cans and set up BBQs in the outer that are belting out the snags in white bread....would be a massive hit.

Could be a good marketing move- get the supporters more involved. Turn Etihad into Moorabbin circa 1971 for a day at a home game..the mind boggles!

[lewdogs]

I was recently in Melbourne for the first time for years. Just for one weekend. I stayed with my friends in Newport and on Saturday afternoon wandered down to Spotswood to see ladder position #1 vs #2 in the WRFL.

A crowd of about 500 maybe. Stood in front of the 'Woodsmen'. The Spotswood regulars.

It was more entertaining, more real, more authentic, less manufactured than any AFL match I've been to in the last ten years.
There was no pre-game advertising schtick. No bloody ground announcer coming on the moment the siren sounds telling me the score.
"Hey F*** wit, I've been watching the game and marking the scores down in my $5 record, I know the bloody score. Can we even have a moments peace to contemplate what's gone before and what's to come?"
Nup. Fill every available second with commercial crap and club 'branding'. Just being the club isn't enough, we've got to 'sell the brand'.

At Spotty, at the end of each quarter there was time to get a a cup of hot chips and a coffee, people having conversations about the game or their lives, you could even wander out and stand in the huddle feeling like an interloper. I stood with Deer Park, whose team featured Brent Guerra, Ryan Houlihan, Ryan Hargrave, James Condos and Brett Thornton, (No wonder they're unbeaten on top of the ladder), partly to hear what the coach had to say and partly to just be amongst the atmosphere of the players and their world. Took me back to when I used to stand in a huddle surrounded by people, sucking oranges and having liniment rubbed on my calves, when I played.
Half time featured kids and dads running around playing kick to kick and having banana shots from impossible angles.
At the end of one quarter, I changed ends just so I could watch the battle between the Spotty backline and the Deer Park forwards, then half way through the next I wandered back around to where I'd started.

Romanticism I know, but this was real footy and the standard was pretty good. No commercialised, manufactured, homogenised bland out. Passionate supporters shouting out very politically incorrect things, a substantial amount of 'language' and you could hear the thwack of the hip and shoulders and boot to ball just a few metres over the boundary line.

I'm sorry, but I actually prefer that experience to going to the AFL.

I reckon you have nailed the a growing sentiment SB. Also talk to anyone that goes the AFL games held in regional areas of Australia where you can stand in the outer and you soon get the feeling that the AFL needs to be careful it doesn't kill the golden goose.

I reckon a small Boutique ground in Victoria that gets back to the old suburban basics would be hugely successful.

It's really sad that it can't be like that these days. I want the high level skill of the AFL combined with that grassroots, standing in the outer atmosphere. It's bloody tragic that that element of our game has been lost, but let's face it, it ain't coming back. The only hope would be that we move some of our games back to Moorabbin or upgraded Junction and played interstate teams there.

The funny thing is we'd actually make money from our home games then. What a weird concept.

[gringo]

I think those days are gone too. I remember the joy of the multiple senses being assaulted and the tribal mania. It is the stuff that made childhood memorable but the world wants money and that stuff isn't sellable. I had a friend from Canada via the US who I used to take to games at Waverley and he loved that you could still see a professional match and pay and walk up. The crazy unorganised ground staff was part of the spectacle, we were there when a score board caught fire and no one moved more than 20 meters away while it burned and no one attended to it. We were there when lights went out and no one knew what to do because they forgot to have a plan. These days lawyers will have seen then end of that stuff but killed the grass roots vibe.

[70s sainter]

It's like a case of Chinese whispers.
They've tried to improve the experience of being a supporter ( and by supporter I guess they mean the type of supporter they ideally want sitting in the outer ) bit by bit until it no longer resembles what it was that you loved going to the footy for in the first place.
The Adelaide oval rubs that in our face a bit with their standing room and great atmosphere etc.
I would love it and I'm sure thousands would if they ripped the seats out of two bays where you could just meet mates , stand and have a few beers and yell crap out all night and maybe get a few laughs- shock horror- somebody lock me up!!

[thejiggingsaint]

Gee wouldn't it be great to get out to Optus schithole again! OR Victoria Park I guess I must be getting old, but I like the dome we call home and the MCG. I remember as a kid going to watch soccer on Merseyside and spectator comfort was the LAST priority of the clubs. Standing out in the Northern winter elements, I would often cast an envious eye toward the punters SITTING up in the grandstands! Now I understand how the days of the past can become romanticised in our memories, but in all honesty, I love being able to see the game in a modicum of comfort. As far as 'atmosphere" is concerned, well that is a matter of US creating our own atmosphere! the venue has little to do with it, (again in my very humble opinion) and if you want to barrack for your side, then just BARRACK! Its what I do!

[thejiggingsaint]

WOW reading some of the earlier posts, I'm wondering just why Sandringham games at Trevor Barker Beach Oval are not CHOKKA BLOKK with Saints supporters! Or why the VFL is not better patronised. ?

[Cairnsman]

As someone else alluded to, you only have to walk around the concorse at the Dome and see how many people choose to stand and and watch the game. As someone else suggested, if they ripped out some chairs in a couple of bays it would be hugely popular. Be great to see the flight of the ball too and only those that watch from that concorse while standing will get what I mean.

Throw in some BBQs and heavy beer in cans and the masses will flock back.

[Dave McNamara]

I enjoy games at Docklands, but... it is sterile, with limited atmosphere, and no connection with our history.

And it is not our unique homeground. It is not us. It is not ours.

But there is a solution, to re-connect our fans with our history... play out of the Junction Oval.






PS: Burkie, the plural of stadium is not stadiums...

[White Winmar]

Gee wouldn't it be great to get out to Optus schithole again! OR Victoria Park I guess I must be getting old, but I like the dome we call home and the MCG. I remember as a kid going to watch soccer on Merseyside and spectator comfort was the LAST priority of the clubs. Standing out in the Northern winter elements, I would often cast an envious eye toward the punters SITTING up in the grandstands! Now I understand how the days of the past can become romanticised in our memories, but in all honesty, I love being able to see the game in a modicum of comfort. As far as 'atmosphere" is concerned, well that is a matter of US creating our own atmosphere! the venue has little to do with it, (again in my very humble opinion) and if you want to barrack for your side, then just BARRACK! Its what I do!

+1 jiggster.

[Enrico_Misso]

The point is the atmosphere at spaceship docklands is not a patch on good old Moorabbin.
Those were the days.
Even when we got beaten it was still an enjoyable afternoon with all the funny banter.
You don't hear funny banter anymore as it would now be deemed "anti-social".

[Dave McNamara]

What Enrico said!

[thejiggingsaint]

The possibility of a return to Moorabbin hosting AFL games is remote, to say the least, but I agree with Burkies sentiments regarding stadiums

[plugger66]

Got to say its long memories but poor memories. I love my local footy but it isnt and never will be the same as AFL footy. Yep its raw but it always has been different. I love AFL footy and I have to be totally honest, if we were going for our 19th straight win as we were in 2009 crap like this wouldnt exist. Funny how we forget round 14 that year or basically any other game that year. Yep its boting now but I remember noy hearing a word when we were getting smashed in the 80's.

[falka]

That article is spot on. Going to the footy will never be like it used to be. Not only stadiums have been sterilized, fans have too. I never thought the day would come where you get strange looks for yelling out at the footy.

This.

when I was between 11-15 venturing out to Moorabbin, I looked up to the guys who got the clever laugh after thinking out a gag. As mentioned earlier, those guys are looked at strangely. Bring back boy cans

[thejiggingsaint]

For games at the dome we call home, I sit in bay 19 level one, and at times that joint has been ROCKING! P66, you've nailed it! It's been my experience in life to find that some folk become nostalgic for the past, because the present is just too hard to cope with, and I understand and empathise with them, but those past days at the footy are just that: in the past.

[gringo]

Got to say its long memories but poor memories. I love my local footy but it isnt and never will be the same as AFL footy. Yep its raw but it always has been different. I love AFL footy and I have to be totally honest, if we were going for our 19th straight win as we were in 2009 crap like this wouldnt exist. Funny how we forget round 14 that year or basically any other game that year. Yep its boting now but I remember noy hearing a word when we were getting smashed in the 80's.

I disagree I have always had fonder memories for the old grounds than the modern ones. I got back into footy in the 90s but I spent my formative years going to the old grounds. When you were a kid they were bizarre living places. They all had their different smells and sounds. Princess Park and Windy Hill were like organisms that held little bits of several eras as they developed.

I loved winning games under Lyon but we all still remembered the days we lost but Plugger went on a rampage with equal or more fondness. I found when we got good I kind of got complacent and just expected it. The early 90s were like rain on a drought plagued community. It's never going to be the same game but we have lost a lot to gain some comfort and extra precision and strategy in our game.

I cope very well with the present, I'm more settled and happy that any other time in my life but those days were more invigorating. I sat with the cheer squad against freo and I was getting glared at when I was too loud as I got a bit over excited. A guy who had come from WA to watch the saints was a bit intoxicated and dared to sit in one of the 100 empty seats in the cheer squad and was told to piss off by several of them. I remember having to watch with fingers in ears as a kid up the back of moorabin as the sounds reverberated like a tidal wave off the concrete.

[plugger66]

Got to say its long memories but poor memories. I love my local footy but it isnt and never will be the same as AFL footy. Yep its raw but it always has been different. I love AFL footy and I have to be totally honest, if we were going for our 19th straight win as we were in 2009 crap like this wouldnt exist. Funny how we forget round 14 that year or basically any other game that year. Yep its boting now but I remember noy hearing a word when we were getting smashed in the 80's.

I disagree I have always had fonder memories for the old grounds than the modern ones. I got back into footy in the 90s but I spent my formative years going to the old grounds. When you were a kid they were bizarre living places. They all had their different smells and sounds. Princess Park and Windy Hill were like organisms that held little bits of several eras as they developed.

I loved winning games under Lyon but we all still remembered the days we lost but Plugger went on a rampage with equal or more fondness. I found when we got good I kind of got complacent and just expected it. The early 90s were like rain on a drought plagued community. It's never going to be the same game but we have lost a lot to gain some comfort and extra precision and strategy in our game.

I cope very well with the present, I'm more settled and happy that any other time in my life but those days were more invigorating. I sat with the cheer squad against freo and I was getting glared at when I was too loud as I got a bit over excited. A guy who had come from WA to watch the saints was a bit intoxicated and dared to sit in one of the 100 empty seats in the cheer squad and was told to piss off by several of them. I remember having to watch with fingers in ears as a kid up the back of moorabin as the sounds reverberated like a tidal wave off the concrete.

Well you usually cant drink in cheer squads these days so that isnt an issue. If being pissed in a cheer squad is what you want then maybe those days at Moorabbin were better. Also it sounds like you were talking of the days at Moorabbin when you were young. Of course its different you were a kid and now you are an adult. I reckons kids now will be saying the same as you in 20 years time about it being better in the 2010's and thats because when you are kid everything is bigger and better. As for your days when plugger went on a rampage well I think that is a player not a ground. If plugger played today and was just as good we would be going beserk. That isnt the ground though. Footy crowds are different but I still think people only remember the good times at Morrabbin. I can remember days when it was wet and cold and hardly a noise was said under tha massive 12k crowd. I do remember Plugger going beserk. Amazing noise. I remember MG mark. Loundest noise i have ever heard for one single incident in a game apart from maybe Barry and BJ mark GF's.

[st.byron]

Got to say its long memories but poor memories. I love my local footy but it isnt and never will be the same as AFL footy. Yep its raw but it always has been different. I love AFL footy and I have to be totally honest, if we were going for our 19th straight win as we were in 2009 crap like this wouldnt exist. Funny how we forget round 14 that year or basically any other game that year. Yep its boting now but I remember noy hearing a word when we were getting smashed in the 80's.

I agree with what you say about if we were going better and winning more games etc.....

However, something has irrevocably changed and the rawness has gone out of the game, one of it's most attractive qualities IMO.

Mister Magic summed it up in the E'dope thread and if I may quote you MM,

"The 'commitment' to 'clean sport' was nothing more than the façade that the Salary Cap. FIXture, COLA and so many other 'planks' of the competition have proven to be - merely a mirage designed to hoodwink the fans into thinking that the game is being run fairly when it is being run entirely to maximise financial return."

That sums it up. You can lay all the 'branding' and manufactured scoreboard directed celebrations over the game as you want. Having "GOAL' on the scoreboard after every goal for example and all the other manufactured crap they're currently salivating about at the Adelaide Oval.
Bottom line is the fundamental shift from the love of the actual game being the primary objective to making money being the primary objective.

[plugger66]

Got to say its long memories but poor memories. I love my local footy but it isnt and never will be the same as AFL footy. Yep its raw but it always has been different. I love AFL footy and I have to be totally honest, if we were going for our 19th straight win as we were in 2009 crap like this wouldnt exist. Funny how we forget round 14 that year or basically any other game that year. Yep its boting now but I remember noy hearing a word when we were getting smashed in the 80's.

I agree with what you say about if we were going better and winning more games etc.....

However, something has irrevocably changed and the rawness has gone out of the game, one of it's most attractive qualities IMO.

Mister Magic summed it up in the E'dope thread and if I may quote you MM,

"The 'commitment' to 'clean sport' was nothing more than the façade that the Salary Cap. FIXture, COLA and so many other 'planks' of the competition have proven to be - merely a mirage designed to hoodwink the fans into thinking that the game is being run fairly when it is being run entirely to maximise financial return."

That sums it up. You can lay all the 'branding' and manufactured scoreboard directed celebrations over the game as you want. Having "GOAL' on the scoreboard after every goal for example and all the other manufactured crap they're currently salivating about at the Adelaide Oval.
Bottom line is the fundamental shift from the love of the actual game being the primary objective to making money being the primary objective.

Yep and making money as assured us of 18 sides. The AFL only distribute money to the clubs and keep money for rainy days. The shareholders are the clubs. No one else gets a dividend. If it wasnt for the commitment of making money then there is no way 18 clubs would still exist. Yep they have spent a fortune on the new sides but you can bet they have done the sums and seen that those clubs will generate more money than has been spent because like suggested its about making money.

We could all go back to the old grounds and limited facilities and it mightnt worry our generation but my soft daughters generation would hate it. Things have changed because people have changed. My daughter and her friends still love the game but they love it how it is now. They dont even mind howw the game is played these days where people of our geberation think its just a pack of players around the ball and we have lost the set postion play which many still want.

[thejiggingsaint]

Nailed it again P66! I can remember (I think!?) back in Liverpool during the nineteen sixties, when as an apprentice Bookbinder, I'd hear the tradesmen lamenting the way in which soccer ( football ) " wasn't as good as it was in the thirties and forties" ! Now we're talking about the days when Greaves, Law, Charlton, Best, and hosts of other stars were strutting their stuff in the first division ( as it was then) I guess some things just never change? you're spot-on about revenue as well. I think that if the clubs and the AFL can somehow involve the punters more in raising revenue, make them feel more a PART of the sport, then it's a win- win all round! I honestly think, that if we were to suddenly revert to the old VFL comp, then we would see a lot of clubs struggling

[jonesy]

When the Dome is packed and rocking it's an unbelievable experience. The Geelong 09 and Brisbane 04 game I did in standing room and it was bedlam,every bit of the old Moorabbin days apart from jumping the fence is sheer dubilation when the siren used to go there.

We're not asking for every seat in the house to be thrown out,pull the roof off,and force people to drink 8 beer bongs on entry, but an 'animal enclosure' section of sorts would be nice.Those that want to reserve there seats ,or sit in family sections feel free.We just want a small area of the ground where 2000 blokes(or kids,ladies if they wish) can stand and enjoy good old fashioned banter and show some passion. The outer wing at Docklands,take the five rows out of the outer 3 bays,and you can bet your life on it it would be packed each week,and the noise volume would double from our supporter base,the rest of the crowd would feed off the energy. It only takes a loud tightly packed area to introduce volume into crowd noise. It's common sense, but won't happen. The closest thing the club got to bringing back the animal enclosure was encouraging kids to dress up as fluffy animals earlier in the year FFS,shows where we are at

[The Fireman]

go to a Collingwood game