Shenton vs Roberton vs Gilbert

[plugger66]

As dragit pointed out we have about 12 backmen as it is. Its nice and cosy saying keep them all but that means others from other positions that we are lacking have to go. If there is an easy position in AFL its the HBF so you would expect players may seem to go ok. Seen nothing from either Shenton or Roberton to say they can play elsewhere. A HBF must be able to run on the ball on occasions in todays footy.

[Con Gorozidis]

Keep all three.
We are wasting our time with Gwilt and Fisher.

A backline with all of Fisher Gwilt Dempster Gilbert it is absolutely demented and deluded. Might as well bring back Max and Baker and start playing super rules and/or get the AFL to start a separate veterans comp like golf. Get kosi back and Milney to sing the song.

And for the fans who just love their old champs and want to keep re-living 09-10 - the refrain of 'we cant get rid of all our experience as we cant afford to fall to the bottom' - newsflash - we are already bottom and the old fellas have proven they can no longer cut it. No more bs excuses.

Start looking to the future and stop kidding ourselves about a 'transition'. The soft 'transition' has not worked.

[#gosaintas]

Definitely wasting our time with Gwilt

[plugger66]

Keep all three.
We are wasting our time with Gwilt and Fisher.

Yep because they are young they are better. Con do you have any other players to delist apart from guys over 28? Why not get rid of Dempster while you are at it. The question people need to ask themselves is would you draft Shenton based on what he has done so far? I wouldnt. Would another club draft him on what he has done so far. very doubtful because by picking him up we are drafting him like every other player we draft this season. You can call it an upgarde but it is using a draft pick.

[Saint wagga]

Keep all three.
We are wasting our time with Gwilt and Fisher.

Yep because they are young they are better. Con do you have any other players to delist apart from guys over 28? Why not get rid of Dempster while you are at it. The question people need to ask themselves is would you draft Shenton based on what he has done so far? I wouldnt. Would another club draft him on what he has done so far. very doubtful because by picking him up we are drafting him like every other player we draft this season. You can call it an upgarde but it is using a draft pick.

The only difference is Plugger, he's been in 'our' system for 3 yrs now, and has chalked up 1/2 a season of senior footy with 'our' team, and that building of continuity is a bit of an intangible, Richo has talked about cohesivness or lack thereof from us this season, so whilst he is taking up a draft pick, I feel thats selling his development and cohesion with the group a bit short...and thats not just the Panther, that goes for all these guys were talking about...fringies. There all going to be ahead of a brand new rookie drafted player in their ability to impact in the short term ie next year and whilst that might sound like short sightedness, it's a balancing act of transitioning our list -guess there will still be players we all see as list cloggers, VFL standard players, it's a matter of trying to phase them out over time and hoping that a few actually come through...we've had some good examples of rookie drafted players blossoming into good afl players with opporunity...

[plugger66]

Keep all three.
We are wasting our time with Gwilt and Fisher.

Yep because they are young they are better. Con do you have any other players to delist apart from guys over 28? Why not get rid of Dempster while you are at it. The question people need to ask themselves is would you draft Shenton based on what he has done so far? I wouldnt. Would another club draft him on what he has done so far. very doubtful because by picking him up we are drafting him like every other player we draft this season. You can call it an upgarde but it is using a draft pick.

The only difference is Plugger, he's been in 'our' system for 3 yrs now, and has chalked up 1/2 a season of senior footy with 'our' team, and that building of continuity is a bit of an intangible, Richo has talked about cohesivness or lack thereof from us this season, so whilst he is taking up a draft pick, I feel thats selling his development and cohesion with the group a bit short...and thats not just the Panther, that goes for all these guys were talking about...fringies. There all going to be ahead of a brand new rookie drafted player in their ability to impact in the short term ie next year and whilst that might sound like short sightedness, it's a balancing act of transitioning our list -guess there will still be players we all see as list cloggers, VFL standard players, it's a matter of trying to phase them out over time and hoping that a few actually come through...we've had some good examples of rookie drafted players blossoming into good afl players with opporunity...

A few blossom and most fail. We have played 40 players this year so based on your theory of continuity then why should we delist any of them. i cant have that ahead of my theory of would you draft that player but each to their own. We have so many HBF as it is. I suppose it depends on how many are delisted. Shenton needs a lot to be delisted. The less that are the less hope he has of being drafted.

[Con Gorozidis]

Keep all three.
We are wasting our time with Gwilt and Fisher.

Yep because they are young they are better. Con do you have any other players to delist apart from guys over 28? Why not get rid of Dempster while you are at it. The question people need to ask themselves is would you draft Shenton based on what he has done so far? I wouldnt. Would another club draft him on what he has done so far. very doubtful because by picking him up we are drafting him like every other player we draft this season. You can call it an upgarde but it is using a draft pick.

T.

yawn!
ok plugger just keep the old mates club together.
who said they were better? they were all great players in their day and it is highly unlikely shenton or roberton will reach those heights.
but so what. cos they were good in the past means nothing. we are achieving nothing playing all of these older guys together. even if the younger guys are crap - at least we gain information and then can make calls for the future. I call it 'learn and churn'.

the fact is dempster is contracted for 2015 - so we already know he is staying and hes 31 next year. we already know roo and joey are contracted and both over 30. we already know gilbert is already contracted for 2015 and he will be 28. Chuck in Geary (26) and Delaney (25) as well.

There is simply no way you can justify keeping all these guys on in a bottom side. if we were treading water mid table then sure maybe keep them on and do a stable transition - we tried this and it failed (it looked in 2012 like we might pull off a stable transition and not bottom out - but the last two years prove we couldnt do it). So lets stop pretending we can.

There is now simply nothing to be gained keeping all these guys on. nothing at all. we cant slip below bottom. So all they are doing is preventing us gaining information on younger players or from getting games into younger players who need them.

There is no point arguing logic with some people as they are drowning in sentiment and irrational 'feelings'. I know it is emotionally comforting for some people to see your old 2009 heroes running around and pretending we arent on the bottom. Denial is a nice feeling.

Especially tough for people like plugger who is clinging on to some emotional blanket of the 'good old days'. I understand people having these thoughts - as irrational as they are. Its part of the human condition and they will attempt to justify clinging to the emotional blanket any way possible.

[Con Gorozidis]

Keep all three.
We are wasting our time with Gwilt and Fisher.

Yep because they are young they are better. Con do you have any other players to delist apart from guys over 28? Why not get rid of Dempster while you are at it. The question people need to ask themselves is would you draft Shenton based on what he has done so far? I wouldnt. Would another club draft him on what he has done so far. very doubtful because by picking him up we are drafting him like every other player we draft this season. You can call it an upgarde but it is using a draft pick.

T.

yawn!
ok plugger just keep the old mates club together.
who said they were better? they were all great players in their day and it is highly unlikely shenton or roberton will reach those heights.
but so what. cos they were good in the pat means nothing. we are achieving nothing playing all of these older guys together. even if the younger guys are crap - at least we gain information and then can make calls for the future. I call it 'learn and churn'.

the fact is dempster is contracted for 2015 - so we already know he is staying and hes 31 next year. we already know roo and joey are contracted and both over 30. we already know gilbert is already contracted for 2015 and hell be 28.

There is simply no way you can justify keeping all these guys on in a bottom side. if we were treading water mid table then sure maybe keep them on and do a stable transition - we tried this and it failed (it looked in 2012 like we might pull off stable transition and not bottom out - but the last two years prove we couldnt do it). So lets stop pretending we can.

There is now simply nothing to be gained keeping all these guys on. nothing at all. we cant slip below bottom. So all they are doing is preventing us gaining information on younger players or from getting games into younger players who need them.

There is no point arguing logic with some people as they are drowning in sentiment and irrational 'feelings'. I know it is emotionally comforting for some people to see your old 2009 heroes running around and pretending we arent on the bottom. Denial is a nice feeling.

Especially tough for people like plugger who is clinging on to some emotional blanket of the 'good old days'. I understand people having these thoughts - as irrational as they are. Its part of the human condition and they will attempt to justify clinging to the emotional blanket any way possible.

Would anyone draft or trade for the following?

Fisher - NO
Gwilt - NO
Schneider - NO

At least there is a reasonable chance Shenton will improve.There is NO chance those guys will improve and no other club would touch them with a ten foot pole.

[plugger66]

Keep all three.
We are wasting our time with Gwilt and Fisher.

Yep because they are young they are better. Con do you have any other players to delist apart from guys over 28? Why not get rid of Dempster while you are at it. The question people need to ask themselves is would you draft Shenton based on what he has done so far? I wouldnt. Would another club draft him on what he has done so far. very doubtful because by picking him up we are drafting him like every other player we draft this season. You can call it an upgarde but it is using a draft pick.

T.

yawn!
ok plugger just keep the old mates club together.
who said they were better? they were all great players in their day and it is highly unlikely shenton or roberton will reach those heights.
but so what. cos they were good in the pat means nothing. we are achieving nothing playing all of these older guys together. even if the younger guys are crap - at least we gain information and then can make calls for the future. I call it 'learn and churn'.

the fact is dempster is contracted for 2015 - so we already know he is staying and hes 31 next year. we already know roo and joey are contracted and both over 30. we already know gilbert is already contracted for 2015 and hell be 28.

There is simply no way you can justify keeping all these guys on in a bottom side. if we were treading water mid table then sure maybe keep them on and do a stable transition - we tried this and it failed. there is now simply nothing to be gained keeping all these guys on. nothing at all. we cant slip below bottom. So all they are doing is preventing us gaining information on younger players or from getting games into younger players who need them.

There is no point arguing logic with some people as they are drowning in sentiment and irrational 'feelings'. I know it is emotionally comforting for some people to see your old 2009 heroes running around and pretending we arent on the bottom. Denial is a nice feeling.

Especially tough for people like plugger who is clinging on to some emotional blanket of the 'good old days'. I understand people having these thoughts - as irrational as they are. Its part of the human condition and they will attempt to justify clinging to the emotional blanket any way possible.

You speak to me and then the last paragraph you address the whole crowd hoping for some sort of confirmation that you are right and I am wrong. Are you that weak minded? We saw your irrational posts regarding schneider. i dont think one person thought you were talking sense. Im sorry but i would keep Fisher over Shenton or Roberton what ever age they all are. No idea what the age 28 means. it meant another 6 years for Lenny so Gilbert is hardly worth mentioning. Very strange lately Con. Anything we can help you with?

[plugger66]

Keep all three.
We are wasting our time with Gwilt and Fisher.

Yep because they are young they are better. Con do you have any other players to delist apart from guys over 28? Why not get rid of Dempster while you are at it. The question people need to ask themselves is would you draft Shenton based on what he has done so far? I wouldnt. Would another club draft him on what he has done so far. very doubtful because by picking him up we are drafting him like every other player we draft this season. You can call it an upgarde but it is using a draft pick.

T.

yawn!
ok plugger just keep the old mates club together.
who said they were better? they were all great players in their day and it is highly unlikely shenton or roberton will reach those heights.
but so what. cos they were good in the pat means nothing. we are achieving nothing playing all of these older guys together. even if the younger guys are crap - at least we gain information and then can make calls for the future. I call it 'learn and churn'.

the fact is dempster is contracted for 2015 - so we already know he is staying and hes 31 next year. we already know roo and joey are contracted and both over 30. we already know gilbert is already contracted for 2015 and hell be 28.

There is simply no way you can justify keeping all these guys on in a bottom side. if we were treading water mid table then sure maybe keep them on and do a stable transition - we tried this and it failed (it looked in 2012 like we might pull off stable transition and not bottom out - but the last two years prove we couldnt do it). So lets stop pretending we can.

There is now simply nothing to be gained keeping all these guys on. nothing at all. we cant slip below bottom. So all they are doing is preventing us gaining information on younger players or from getting games into younger players who need them.

There is no point arguing logic with some people as they are drowning in sentiment and irrational 'feelings'. I know it is emotionally comforting for some people to see your old 2009 heroes running around and pretending we arent on the bottom. Denial is a nice feeling.

Especially tough for people like plugger who is clinging on to some emotional blanket of the 'good old days'. I understand people having these thoughts - as irrational as they are. Its part of the human condition and they will attempt to justify clinging to the emotional blanket any way possible.

Would anyone draft or trade for the following?

Fisher - NO
Gwilt - NO
Schneider - NO

At least there is a small chance Shenton might improve.There is NO chance those guys will improve and no other club would touch them with a ten foot pole.

No they wouldnt Con. Ehat is your point. I take it it isnt logic. And no other club would take Shenton either. Actua;;y all thos mentioned would be more hope. The difference is they are already on our list and dont need to be drafted but Shenton does. Something to do with the law. Pfft.

[#gosaintas]

Dempster should be delisted too - he has been finished for a couple of years now

[gringo]

You could probably put Dempster and Gwilt and Head in that group. I like the flexibility of Shents, he is the most attacking game besides Gilbert and can play forward. He's handy depth with upside. I guess that Simpkin is seen as a back up KPB these days. Roberton is a solid player and was one of our better players last year. We have actually lost quite a few backline runners in the last few years with Gram, Raph and Peake all leaving. Most teams have a large swarm of guys who can play back and mid.

[Con Gorozidis]

Dempster should be delisted too - he has been finished for a couple of years now

The guy is bloody amazing - but I do worry about his long-term health regarding concussions.

[Sobraz]

I think Shenton would be picked up, and I know for a fact at least 2 other clubs have made contact with him and one more than once.

[Con Gorozidis]

Watching the old boys run around - even if we are stuck in dead last for a few years - is a way of kind of not facing your own mortality and ageing.

I certainly understand that this is emotionally appealing to many people.

[#gosaintas]

He has courage but cannot mark or pick up the ball anymore

[Con Gorozidis]

I think Shenton would be picked up, and I know for a fact at least 2 other clubs have made contact with him and one more than once.

Cant be true as plugger doesnt rate him. Lets sack Shents and keep on Gwilt Fisher and Dempster so we can have an 09 reunion disco and grand final match re-enactment. Get Grammy back as well. Just keep living in the past.

[plugger66]

I think Shenton would be picked up, and I know for a fact at least 2 other clubs have made contact with him and one more than once.

Cant be true as plugger doesnt rate him. Lets sack Shents and keep on Gwilt Fisher and Dempster so we can have an 09 reunion disco and grand final match re-enactment. Get Grammy back as well. Just keep living in the past.

What a weird person you are Con. Have your help for making things up all the time and the lack of ability to discuss things like an adult. It doesnt seem so. Sobraz how do you know for a fact 2 clubs have made contact with him. You must be a bloody close mate for him to tell you that.

[gringo]

I think Shenton would be picked up, and I know for a fact at least 2 other clubs have made contact with him and one more than once.

Cant be true as plugger doesnt rate him. Lets sack Shents and keep on Gwilt Fisher and Dempster so we can have an 09 reunion disco and grand final match re-enactment. Get Grammy back as well. Just keep living in the past.

We are going badly so sack everyone over 25? Melbourne has probably made a few teams scared of doing that. Losing your competitive edge doesn't do any one any good. Who do we keep? Rooey might as well go because he might get injured. Farren is oldish, If we get rid of every player over 26 we will have a heap of picks I think pick 97 in the draft would be much better than gwilt or riewoldt.

[fugazi]

Agree with Con...keep all 3.

Shenton's played what, 5 or 6 games...really like what I've seen.
Robbo so good last year...if he can pick up from there he'll be ok, and Gilbert a known quantity who at his best is pushing A-grader status

[Sobraz]

I think Shenton would be picked up, and I know for a fact at least 2 other clubs have made contact with him and one more than once.

Cant be true as plugger doesnt rate him. Lets sack Shents and keep on Gwilt Fisher and Dempster so we can have an 09 reunion disco and grand final match re-enactment. Get Grammy back as well. Just keep living in the past.

What a weird person you are Con. Have your help for making things up all the time and the lack of ability to discuss things like an adult. It doesnt seem so. Sobraz how do you know for a fact 2 clubs have made contact with him. You must be a bloody close mate for him to tell you that.

I dont profess to be close to the club, have inside word or be good mates with anyone, never have.

In this case it is someone I know very very close to Shenton that has good reason and interest to know his contract situation.

Does not mean either club have committed or necessarily offered anything, purely made contact. That alone is enough to tell me his career isn't over at the end of this season.

[plugger66]

I think Shenton would be picked up, and I know for a fact at least 2 other clubs have made contact with him and one more than once.

Cant be true as plugger doesnt rate him. Lets sack Shents and keep on Gwilt Fisher and Dempster so we can have an 09 reunion disco and grand final match re-enactment. Get Grammy back as well. Just keep living in the past.

What a weird person you are Con. Have your help for making things up all the time and the lack of ability to discuss things like an adult. It doesnt seem so. Sobraz how do you know for a fact 2 clubs have made contact with him. You must be a bloody close mate for him to tell you that.

I dont profess to be close to the club, have inside word or be good mates with anyone, never have.

In this case it is someone I know very very close to Shenton that has good reason and interest to know his contract situation.

Does not mean either club have committed or necessarily offered anything, purely made contact. That alone is enough to tell me his career isn't over at the end of this season.

I never said that you did any of that. If I stated something like you did I certainly would expect someone to ask me how i know so thats what I. I still say if we dont pick him up no one else will. He may very well be drafted by us. It will depend on how many they delist. The more there are the more hope he has because we certainly wont use more than 5 picks in the draft you would think.

[bergsone]

Anyway imo Shenton has showed enough to be given another year,bit of x factor about him,liked the look of him from day one,and think he can push forward.Apparently recruited as a forward

Roberton could be in trouble,after a good first year does look a bit flakey this year

Gilbert is a keeper imo fair share of injuries hasn't helped his cause,so should have plenty of footy left in him if he can have an inj free run.But could also be prominent come trade period

[Bluthy]

I think Shenton would be picked up, and I know for a fact at least 2 other clubs have made contact with him and one more than once.

See I think this the other side of our list problem. Our young players have not been in good development environment for 7 years or so now. When SainterK was talking about Geelong sniffing around Geary I shudder thinking what do they feel confident they can get out of him with their system that we cant? I wonder how good Armo would be if he was in the Sydney or Hawthorns system as a kid. Hawthorn will probably turn McEvoy into a tap machine 3 goal per game kicking forward that wins them a premiership. Even a player like Roberton when he had the bad concussion and complications with this ankle, I wonder how much support he got to try and work through the issues with clear feedback for his progression back. Instead he was probably just dumped back in the VFL with his head spinning and told to fight his way back, feeling a bit lost.

The problem for our fringe players is coaches always want to make the list their own and Richo has had a full year now to check them out. I think he might feel that for many of them they have been taught bad ways and its possibly too late for them and now will be the pruning time. Its no coincidence that all the recruits virtually went straight into the firsts where Richo can imprint them with his style rather than being in the VFL where they will be taught god knows what. I wouldn't be surprised if they clean the rookie list out and start afresh with young kids. We are beefing up our coaching and development environment but it may be too late for a lot of our younger players.

[cwrcyn]

Shenton uses the ball better than Wright. Bit hard on the guy to want him delisted after a few games in which he's played pretty well. Has shown more than some others like Murdoch and Ross