Suggestion Box

[st.byron]

i dont miss your point at all byron.

U , make grandiose statements of UNTRUTH.
(quite regularly) to support your views.

Thats 'PROPAGANDA'

Stop it , please.

Oh lord. Propaganda. If I could be bothered engaging with it, you could give some examples of my grandiose untruths. But don't. It really doesn't matter.
This is all getting too silly and way too serious. It's a footy fan forum.

One day you're talking about unity, everyone gently chatting it all out and everyone moving in the same direction, the next you're making snide comments, calling someone a cancer and accusing me of making stuff up.
Enough already.

[asiu]

...get real byron.

have a look at your own effort.

run away then.

whilst your away u might read the history of what happened
around here whilst u were living in Europe.

then 'U' might stop charging people with being EMOTIVELY CHARGED
as 'u' just did to Cairnsman.

read the history ... know the facts.
enough of your propaganda that has come from jumping onto Simons ship *
after the dirty work was done.

(the guy shoulda been charged with rorting the goodwill of the SS Community , imo)

*
i'm glad u did.

[BackFromUSA]

OK seriously guys. This serves no purpose.

All views have been expressed.

If you want CHANGE then propose that change in writing during August in the thread that will be established and it will be discussed in September.

Simon

[asiu]

thanx for the board warning.


hope u feel better after your little chest puff.

[Cairnsman]

So St Byron, been thinking about your aversion to voting.

I note that you and BFUSA have been supportive of website upgrades in particular some of the suggestions Matrix has offered.

That's two votes.

How do we work out "majority rules" if BFUSA decides to make changes to the website proposed by Matrix, who as far as I can tell is the only person requesting the changes.

What if he gets it terribly wrong. What if Matrix's idea completely sux.

Wouldn't it be better to know what the punters want up front before making making website changes?

I put it to you this way, let's say we call it "surveying" and not "voting". Does that make a difference?

If we don't try and come up with some system to objectively measure what the members want then don't we risk killing the golden goose if the changes completely miss the mark.

So "surveying" is a form of market research if you like.

Surveying, similar to how we do match day voting, would that be a better system for objectively measuring "majority rules" than the system we currently have?

[GrumpyOne]

Well..... to sum all that s*** up..... we're all stuffed and the forum is going to hell..... if that is any indication of the admin attitude.

Sooner or later, it will implode.

Such is life.

It's my personal opinion. Not the opinion of the administrator.

Two questions.

Does the Administrator make all the decisions for this forum on his own, as in a dictatorship?

If the Administrator does take opinions from his Mod Team, will your Mod opinion differ from your personal opinion?

[st.byron]

So St Byron, been thinking about your aversion to voting.

I note that you and BFUSA have been supportive of website upgrades in particular some of the suggestions Matrix has offered.

That's two votes.

How do we work out "majority rules" if BFUSA decides to make changes to the website proposed by Matrix, who as far as I can tell is the only person requesting the changes.

What if he gets it terribly wrong. What if Matrix's idea completely sux.

Wouldn't it be better to know what the punters want up front before making making website changes?

I put it to you this way, let's say we call it "surveying" and not "voting". Does that make a difference?

If we don't try and come up with some system to objectively measure what the members want then don't we risk killing the golden goose if the changes completely miss the mark.

So "surveying" is a form of market research if you like.

Surveying, similar to how we do match day voting, would that be a better system for objectively measuring "majority rules" than the system we currently have?

Hey CM. I reckon it's very valid to have input on things like format changes as per Matrix's ideas. You're right, Matrix's ideas might suck. They sound good, but they might not be. The thing for me with that is, I don't understand IT very well, so I'm not qualified to comment. Those who do and are should be able to put their two cents worth in of course. When we were all debating third party abuse a little while bacl, I thought that was good to have everyone's input. So for sure I reckon it's a good thing to have everyone's views. It seems to me the sticking point for you is the structure of the admin and ownership of the forum, in that it's in the hands of one or two people, one of whom is generally absent and one whom you don't respect much, and you'd prefer it in the hands of the general forum populace. I can understand that idea and I'm not against it in principle and in an ideal situation.
But, given the ownership structure that we have and given the history of personal enmity on this site between various posters, I just don't reckon it would work. It's my personal opinion that's all. I might be wrong. The fundamental issue it seems is that it's not a democracy and you want it to be one. Apologies if I'm wrong on that.
And there's nothing can be done about it unless the site owner agrees to relinquish ownership / control. He appoints the site admin, he has final say. That's how it is.
The only way I can see to have what you want is to start your own site. CM, I respect you for willingness to debate and for sticking to your vision and as I've previously said to you, I can see your intentions are for the good of the forum. I just can't see how it can happen. You're effectively wanting to shift the fundamental structure of site management and admin and that requires the site owner to agree. If he doesn't then there's nothing can be done. No point going on about it if he doesn't.

So yes, surveying, seeking input and opinions, everyone putting their ideas forward - well and good. You could even have a poll to see what a majority wants on a particular issue - but bottom line is it's not binding because it's a privately owned site and there lies the power to say yay or nay.

No animosity or ill will with you CM. Cheers.

[st.byron]

Two questions.

Does the Administrator make all the decisions for this forum on his own, as in a dictatorship?

If the Administrator does take opinions from his Mod Team, will your Mod opinion differ from your personal opinion?

Grumps, I can only answer your first question with regard to moderating decisions. In some cases, where it's obviously not worth a warning, one mod will go ahead and close a report with no action taken. In the case of issuing warnings, unless it's absolutely a no brainer that a warning is to be issued, i.e someone calling another poster a s*** head, then we cross check with at least one other and preferably two other mods before issuing a warning.
In my time as a mod the only broader forum policy decision that has been made has been that around third party abuse. A thread was put up for a couple of weeks and when it became clear that there was no clear push from a majority of forum members to change the status quo, the decision was made to leave things as they are.

Currently we're debating the merits/possibility of voting on issues and democracy and we're in the middle of that. My understanding is that will be a more formal invitation to put forward proposals which will then be put to the site owner. Therein lies the rub. Ultimately it's the site owner who has the power to say yay or nay. It's not a democracy, no matter how much anyone thinks it should be.

With regard to my own personal opinion. It remains the same whoever seeks it. It could change, if a particular argument sways my opinion one way or another. But my personal opinion is not different according to who I'm talking to. The only area where that might not be so is in moderating the rules where I I might have to apply a rule I don't really agree with.

[Cairnsman]

It seems to me the sticking point for you is the structure of the admin and ownership of the forum, in that it's in the hands of one or two people, one of whom is generally absent and one whom you don't respect much, and you'd prefer it in the hands of the general forum populace.

Byron just to be clear, I respect BFUSA, we disagree on some issues and debate those issues vigorously and at times our debating has been less than constructive but that does not stop me from seeing the good that BFUSA does.

While I'm on it I think that BFUSA should always remain in administration even if we were to move to a revised administration model. I think one of the better suggestions put forward on an administration model was the multi person administration board proposed by BFUSA. I am really hoping BFUSA make that happen or something like it, and that BFUSA should even be the chairman of such a board. I then think a few extra people thrown in like a secratary which obviously would Mr Magic and then a few other suitable persons that brings something to the table. This is already on the record, but I will state it again, if such a board of administrators was put in place I would not seek to be on the board. This is not about control for me or about trying to get into the administration. That is not for me. What I would do though is help with the development and implementation and help out with a transition if BFUSA could do with my help on that front. Other than that I am only interested in campaigning to effect change towards an improved administration model.

[stinger]

WOW ... you go away for the split round and look what has happened.

Entertaining stuff.

TO Matrix:

Your suggestions are being worked on

TO CAIRNSMAN:

Much of what you write is your view of events and not the "truth" but rather than argue everything ...

You still have a problem understanding that:

(1) In July 13 I was just mad a MOD and acted as an advocate for posters to admin to get some improvements done ... as a MOD I had no admin ability JUST moderation

During this time I floated lots of different ideas and got lots of feedback of what posters wanted and too those ideas that got through / supported to admin

(2) In February 14 - the site owner and the then admin handed me the keyts to be Admin ... and at that point my role and responsibilities changed ...

During this period, I recruited a group of mods, opened an admin forum to have issues discussed seeking feedback such as the opinions expressed here

(3) The site has never been "strapped for cash" as such and the owner NEVER came asking for money - we (posters here well before you) MADE him stop paying as WE wanted to contribute to the cost ... we VOLUNTEERED to do so ... it gave us no rights at all ... but IF $ contributions did give you a right to influence then according to the donations given MATRIX has more right than most, Stinger certainly has a right to contribute his thoughts, kosifantutti has been a champ and even GrumpyOne put his hand up in the early days (one of the first to donate) amongst dozens who are active posters on the fan forum ... but some others that figure prominently in this discussion in the Admin Forum would certainly have NO SAY AT ALL ... however that isn't the way Saintsational operates ... and ALL opinions are welcome including yours.

Those that donated understood then and now ... it was a donation and did not give them any sort of voting rights and that damien owns the site.

TO EVERYONE

I have already stated that:

- your positions are well known and further debate is really not necessary
- you are welcome to make a submission in August on ANY issue or give any suggestion (must include exactly HOW it could become a reality)
- in September a committee will sit and discuss everything around a table to debate and hopefully decide a way forward

Please make the submissions in a thread that I shall start in August.

afaic..you are doing a good job.....but some are still getting away with abuse...fix that up and the forum will florish...as long as you start to ignore the whingers......oh ...matrix ideas should be looked at...not my cup of tea but hey....nothing stands still....

[stinger]

i dont miss your point at all byron.

U , make grandiose statements of UNTRUTH.
(quite regularly) to support your views.

Thats 'PROPAGANDA'

Stop it , please.

Oh lord. Propaganda. If I could be bothered engaging with it, you could give some examples of my grandiose untruths. But don't. It really doesn't matter.
This is all getting too silly and way too serious. It's a footy fan forum.

One day you're talking about unity, everyone gently chatting it all out and everyone moving in the same direction, the next you're making snide comments, calling someone a cancer and accusing me of making stuff up.
Enough already.

what have you done about that mate..????..calling somwone a cancer is about as low as one could get....pity you saw fit to quote that particularly unpleasant poster

[stinger]

OK seriously guys. This serves no purpose.

All views have been expressed.

If you want CHANGE then propose that change in writing during August in the thread that will be established and it will be discussed in September.




Simon

i think the hidden agenda of one very unstable poster has just become a bit more apparent....not referring to you cairnsman.....

[plugger66]

OK seriously guys. This serves no purpose.

All views have been expressed.

If you want CHANGE then propose that change in writing during August in the thread that will be established and it will be discussed in September.




Simon

i think the hidden agenda of one very unstable poster has just become a bit more apparent....not referring to you cairnsman.....

Who are you referring to Stinger? Not a very nice comment especially after complaing about something in your previous post.

[asiu]

what have you done about that mate..????..calling somwone a cancer is about as low as one could get....pity you saw fit to quote that particularly unpleasant poster

you're way lower than that.

i thought i WAS being gentle.
should i have used expressions like feltcher ,
teachers pet galah , deepthroat , village buffoon or the like ?

<2nd warning issued>

RULE IS CLEAR:

Do NOT make commentary about the poster - ONLY the post. If you tease, mock or bait another poster, or abuse them, OR repeatedly revisit past disagreements causing or creating an ongoing dispute between one or more posters, this is regarded as a breach of rules in the Fan Forum and will result in the issuing of a Saintsational warning. Such ongoing disputes can result in multiple breaches and can result in multiple Saintsational warnings.

We strongly advise that ongoing disputes be voluntarily taken to the ANIMAL ENCLOSURE forum.

[asiu]

i am about to report my previous post to the moderators !

i have noted for the moderators a full list of my deficiencies , defects and delusions.
... any mention of any fully explained deficiencies , defects or delusions
by 'my stalker' stinger will be / is be hereby declared report bait.

[asiu]

Sheeeet.

Oh well .... next time.

You might wanna go and re read your stupidly written AE rules
... only a sucker would play there !!!!

[asiu]

My post was TOTALLY about his post.
... u might wanna re read it !!!

said NOTHING about the poster.

or easier ,
find another rule to warn me with.

[asiu]

wheres the date 'n time stamp ?

[asiu]

2nd warning huh.

i've never seen that used before.
... whose benefit is that for ????

not mine ... i already know.

[asiu]

ok , my turn.

... way back when , Cairnsy brought up another issue
that i thought 'on target' , with regards to a well organised site.

it centred around only one person having Admin skills
being available and compentant with said skills.

Has Simon taken on an 'apprentice' with regards to this issue ?
... if not , why hasnt st.byron been brought up to speed at the very least.

an interesting interlude indeed.
.. but , enough fun , back to business.

the above wouldnt be asked in any name dag gob fest
so i ask it again ... for the 3rd time.

under the observation that our Man in Red failed to read the whole thread
or he would of attended to it.
...u know , like answer it .

[GrumpyOne]

what have you done about that mate..????..calling somwone a cancer is about as low as one could get....pity you saw fit to quote that particularly unpleasant poster

you're way lower than that.

i thought i WAS being gentle.
should i have used expressions like feltcher ,
teachers pet galah , deepthroat , village buffoon or the like ?

<2nd warning issued>

RULE IS CLEAR:

Do NOT make commentary about the poster - ONLY the post. If you tease, mock or bait another poster, or abuse them, OR repeatedly revisit past disagreements causing or creating an ongoing dispute between one or more posters, this is regarded as a breach of rules in the Fan Forum and will result in the issuing of a Saintsational warning. Such ongoing disputes can result in multiple breaches and can result in multiple Saintsational warnings.

We strongly advise that ongoing disputes be voluntarily taken to the ANIMAL ENCLOSURE forum.

Did anyone look at the post that created that response?

[Cairnsman]

Can we have some more detail on who and how the submissions will be assessed?

Will the assessment of submissions be transparent and inclusive?

[plugger66]

Can we have some more detail on who and how the submissions will be assessed?

Will the assessment of submissions be transparent and inclusive?

I would hope not. If they are going to have a panel then its their job to do that.

[asiu]

[matrix]

so we are seriously doing some royal comissinino thing to vote on updates?

i mean
seriously?

funny how you can get a pm within and hr of calling a certain poster by his old username becasue he has some wierd deluded thing going on and jsut can admit he spat the dummy and looked a bit silly and then wanted to come back but came in under a new name trying to keep it all hush hush until a mod said in a post that it was the same poster and its a banable offence to call them by the old username if they request to be only called by the new username....but you never receive a pm about updates that have been put forward as ideas
and seeing as i havent been here for a bit (in this thread) i cant be assed to go back thru 3 pages to read to and find out if my questions were even answered

why i even bother offering advice on what updates the site should be steering towards i have no idea
been a whole two years and guess whats happened in the update world

the banner got fixed
new rules were written
and
a naughty corner for threads was made

not updates
just a change around that could be done any day of the week by any admin or even super mod

i guess this so called owner you (admins and mods( have to bow down in front of has gone into hiding again and wants no part of re vamping the site
well
if you dont keep up with change, you will slowly fade out


i see the dimmer switch is already installed