Suggestion Box

[Cairnsman]

Ironically you are part of the BFUSA led faction, cliques and lobby with members including Kosifantutti and Buckets and the silent majority. What are you really afraid of Byron.

I don't think that there is any disagreement that a voting system would need to be well thought out.

I don't see one logical element to any of your argument or claims and I ask the following questions which are in direct response to your claims:

What additional problems could be caused by having a viable voting system.?

What logistical issues could there be by having a viable system?

What political issues could be a problem other than there being factions. Factions can work for the common good. Faction is not a dirty word. Are you and your beliefs the only one allowed to be part of a faction?

Why would a voting system need to be voluntary? Why wouldn't a compulsory voting system work. Why does it need to be enforced? (Caution answering these ones Byron, I have a reasonably considered idea about how a voting system works because I'm open to the idea).

How can a viable voting system create accusations of bias? Is that how it works with our Australian system of voting in a government or any other voting system. Remembering we currently work under BFUSA's "majority rules" system.

What does being anonymous have to do with having a viable voting system if we can implement a system that has adequate integrity.

You claim the current system is not perfect which I assume you are referring to BFUSA's "majority rules" system, if so what are it's good points and benefits?

Byron I ask this with the greatest of respect, but would it be possible for you to cast aside your strong beliefs against a voting system for the time-being and just focus on the technical side of a discussion and about how we could have a viable voting system. I'd like to see us open up the discussion to try and encourage suggestions, ideas and the offering of possible existing know-how on how we might achieve a voting system.

And if we do manage to come up with something that looks viable then as a safety net we could possibly just implement the system on a trial basis just in the event we did get it horribly wrong and it all does go pear shape.

What would we have to lose by taking that approach?

A few thoughts in response.

I'd like to know what things would need to be voted on.

I can't see how you could possibly enforce a mandatory voting system. How could that possibly work on an anonymous internet forum? Even if it were enforceable it's a bit Big Brother. I don't want to be forced to have to vote on things I don't care about on a footy fan forum or else.......And if it's not mandatory then you'd end up with a U.S style system where the people who are more politically or ideologically driven end with a lot more say in how things run.

How could you police a voting system so that people don't go down the track of multiple nics and multiple votes? It would be easy, if I felt so inclined, for me to register four different nics at the four different internet points I regularly have access to. Each one has a different IP address. No-one could possibly know except for my posting style but it would be impossible to prove. And that's without doing any fancy technical stuff like setting up a proxy IP address or the like.

Factions would emerge much more strongly because control of the forum would be at stake. At the moment, the ownership and admin structure doesn't allow for posters, based on who they like and don't like, to form alliances that actually have any genuine power to change the way the forum is structured. People like yourself and others have dissenting views and are able to air them, but ultimately the site owner and the administrator/s he appoints are in control of what happens.

It would depend on what was to be voted on, but I foresee posters who have an interest in wielding a bit of power or who are more ideologically driven gaining a lot more say in how the forum runs. And cliques and favouritism emerging much more strongly in a pretty short time. Personally I think that a clear majority of posters are satisfied with things the way they are. If not, why aren't we hearing a lot more complaints? Especially when there's been ample threads inviting suggestions and feedback in the past few months.

Bottom line for me is I can't really see the point. I think the forum is moving in the right direction. It's way better than it used to be. So long as we keep a balance with not being too nanny state with the rules and keep a sense of humour about it.
It would be better if the owner were more active in updating the site format, but apart from that I like it the way it is. Not to say I'm not open to change, but not just for the sake of an ideology or change for change's sake. Anything to make it more interactive and attractive to more members is worth exploring. Otherwise I reckon it's on a good footing as it is now and see no need for voting and the like.

A bit of history. BFUSA and the people first clashed not long after he asked the forum if the people would like him to represent them. BFUSA ruffled feathers when he made it sound very much like he was a man of the people however it was not long after he was given the honour of representing the people that we were told that he now represented the owner of SS and was only carrying out his wishes. Now up to that point we had not heard from the owner for a very, very long time and in actual fact when the website needed saving financially it was the people that came to the rescue. Before long we were then being told about changes to the website that had not even been adequately consulted with the people and at that point the owner was not even aware of the proposed changes. This was well outside the mandate that had been granted by the people and when challenged there were all sorts of controversies including the people being told that even though they had contributed financially, their amounts given were not sufficient enough for their voice to be listened to and that they were only "gifts". Then we had the "majority rules" system offered up as a piece offering however it has always been unclear how this system works as it appeared to lack transparency and objectivity. The people became concerned that they were headed back to unfortunate period in their history that was controlled my an "orange" dictator. They remain cautious and look on with concern.

Ok so you argue that a voting system can't be compulsory and it can't be a voluntary. Just out of curiosity are are you pro dictatorship communism.

If you are pro dictatorship or communism then your question about what would we voted on or you claim that voting would be biased towards factions or cliques makes complete sense.

Also I'm not sure I follow your argument about perceived problems with an anonymous voting system because as far as I know most voting systems for voting on governments are anonymous.

In any case I am not proposing an anonymous system. I think any voting system for a website like SS should be completely transparent and community focused.

Why wouldn't a voting system work that had a committee of long time posters that worked under the 7 man board proposed by BFUSA?

CM you keep going on about a voting system but can you tell me and im sure others as well what are these things you actually want voted on. I would really appreciate that.

Some things that may be voted on might be:

proposed rule changes
proposed website modifications
proposed software changes/modifications

So you want us to vote on things like website modifications even if the site is not able to do modifications. Surely that isnt a vote thing. We just try and improve the site to what it is capable of being improved too. I also vote on rule changes. That would be like the public doing the same in the AFL. I actually wouldnt vote on anything apart from a vote to not vote. I choose to be on this site but if was annoying as you seem to find it I would be out of here. Im pretty sure I dont pay anything to be on this site so this site owes me nothing.

Fair enough, good to hear your thoughts.

[matrix]

seriously this is a friggin joke

wtf are you getting people to vote on?
whether to have 'likes'??????

just update the site
wtf are you asking everyone what they think about it for and then getting everyone to vote
someones away on holidays and misses a vote spits the dummy how unfair yadda yadda

good lord
its not f****** hard to have updates that MAKE THE FRIGGIN PLACE BETTER AND EASIER TO USE

tell me
in a 7 page thread, how do i:
*find my last post


???


good f****** lord
seriously its like talking to middle management at work who havent driven or operated a piece of machinery in their lives, yet think know how to set out a warehouse

[asiu]

'this' is about
a) the right
b) the need
c) the desire
to be part of the process.

Whats silly about that ?

Cairnsys short story on the 2nd coming of another orange hatter
shows where we have come from .... AGAIN.

cant we keep moving forward ???????
(if there was no problem ... we wouldnt be here !!)

[st.byron]

seriously this is a friggin joke

wtf are you getting people to vote on?
whether to have 'likes'??????

just update the site
wtf are you asking everyone what they think about it for and then getting everyone to vote
someones away on holidays and misses a vote spits the dummy how unfair yadda yadda

This. I can't see any need at all for voting.

[asiu]

this 'voting' discussion is boring the beejeezus outa me.

obviously , we need to vote on the need to vote.

Next , ffs.

[GrumpyOne]

Vote on any bloody thing you like guys FFS...... my view is that the admin of the site should be answerable to the only people that have shown any interest in the site..... The Posters.

[plugger66]

Vote on any bloody thing you like guys FFS...... my view is that the admin of the site should be answerable to the only people that have shown any interest in the site..... The Posters.

And how would you propse that? GO what I still fail to get is this site doesnt require money to join so why should we have any say at all. If you dont like it then you leave. And if you put money in previously well that is great but it doesnt buy you anything at all. We put money into player sponsorship and receive nothing unless you fluke a prize.

[GrumpyOne]

Vote on any bloody thing you like guys FFS...... my view is that the admin of the site should be answerable to the only people that have shown any interest in the site..... The Posters.

And how would you propse that? GO what I still fail to get is this site doesnt require money to join so why should we have any say at all. If you dont like it then you leave. And if you put money in previously well that is great but it doesnt buy you anything at all. We put money into player sponsorship and receive nothing unless you fluke a prize.

Simple Plug..... Introduce a membership status that involves paying a membership fee.

Completely voluntary.

Site would still be fully accessible whether you paid or not.

Additional benefits available for those who choose to pay.

Signed memorabilia etc..... the opportunities are endless.

Would pay for hosting, software updates, player sponsorship, etc etc

This forum could become a powerhouse among fan forums if we wanted to be.

It's just waiting to happen, if we could break the shackles over this ridiculous absent owner issue.

[plugger66]

Vote on any bloody thing you like guys FFS...... my view is that the admin of the site should be answerable to the only people that have shown any interest in the site..... The Posters.

And how would you propse that? GO what I still fail to get is this site doesnt require money to join so why should we have any say at all. If you dont like it then you leave. And if you put money in previously well that is great but it doesnt buy you anything at all. We put money into player sponsorship and receive nothing unless you fluke a prize.

Simple Plug..... Introduce a membership status that involves paying a membership fee.

Completely voluntary.

Site would still be fully accessible whether you paid or not.

Additional benefits available for those who choose to pay.

Signed memorabilia etc..... the opportunities are endless.

Would pay for hosting, software updates, player sponsorship, etc etc

This forum could become a powerhouse among fan forums if we wanted to be.

It's just waiting to happen, if we could break the shackles over this ridiculous absent owner issue.

Yep that may update the site but it doesnt explain how then the admin are answerable to the members. I think how hard it is for MM to even get close to his money for player sponsorship shows that has many holes in it.

[GrumpyOne]

Yep that may update the site but it doesnt explain how then the admin are answerable to the members.

Introduce a membership status that involves paying a membership fee.

Additional benefits available for those who choose to pay.

There it is Plug.

[plugger66]

Yep that may update the site but it doesnt explain how then the admin are answerable to the members.

Introduce a membership status that involves paying a membership fee.

Additional benefits available for those who choose to pay.

There it is Plug.

Yep and if only 10 pay which I would expect then do you propse those 10 control the voting. I want to put in for player sponsorship but have no interest at all in being a member so what happens then? The fact is most people on here wouldnt give a tinkers about being a member or voting so it gets down to people who want change who will vote. Cant see that as a good thing.

[GrumpyOne]

Yep that may update the site but it doesnt explain how then the admin are answerable to the members.

Introduce a membership status that involves paying a membership fee.

Additional benefits available for those who choose to pay.

There it is Plug.

Yep and if only 10 pay which I would expect then do you propse those 10 control the voting. I want to put in for player sponsorship but have no interest at all in being a member so what happens then? The fact is most people on here wouldnt give a tinkers about being a member or voting so it gets down to people who want change who will vote. Cant see that as a good thing.

Don't see a problem with it Plug.

Those who don't care to pay get a forum that they will not care about.

[plugger66]

Yep that may update the site but it doesnt explain how then the admin are answerable to the members.

Introduce a membership status that involves paying a membership fee.

Additional benefits available for those who choose to pay.

There it is Plug.

Yep and if only 10 pay which I would expect then do you propse those 10 control the voting. I want to put in for player sponsorship but have no interest at all in being a member so what happens then? The fact is most people on here wouldnt give a tinkers about being a member or voting so it gets down to people who want change who will vote. Cant see that as a good thing.

Don't see a problem with it Plug.

Those who don't care to pay get a forum that they will not care about.

But i want to sponsor a player. You are suggesting that would be included in membership. I have no interest in that and you failed to even answer the part about bugger all being interested and then bugger all controlling the place. And also the fact we cant get enough to cover MM with his sponsorship anyway. I honestly think if it didnt include sponsoring of a player you whould be lucky to get 10 people joining. Some will say im not paying until I know what the changes will be and we again go around in circles. GO why not start your own forum if this one gives you the s***s?

[asiu]

fair dink.

[GrumpyOne]

But i want to sponsor a player. You are suggesting that would be included in membership. I have no interest in that and you failed to even answer the part about bugger all being interested and then bugger all controlling the place. And also the fact we cant get enough to cover MM with his sponsorship anyway. I honestly think if it didnt include sponsoring of a player you whould be lucky to get 10 people joining. Some will say im not paying until I know what the changes will be and we again go around in circles. GO why not start your own forum if this one gives you the s***s?

That idea is not set in concrete Plug.... It's only an idea. I'm sure that others can polish it up to allow for the option you mention.

This forum doesn't give me the s***s BTW.... I can just see how it can be made heaps better.

Silly to through the baby out with the bathwater..... why start another forum?

[plugger66]

But i want to sponsor a player. You are suggesting that would be included in membership. I have no interest in that and you failed to even answer the part about bugger all being interested and then bugger all controlling the place. And also the fact we cant get enough to cover MM with his sponsorship anyway. I honestly think if it didnt include sponsoring of a player you whould be lucky to get 10 people joining. Some will say im not paying until I know what the changes will be and we again go around in circles. GO why not start your own forum if this one gives you the s***s?

That idea is not set in concrete Plug.... It's only an idea. I'm sure that others can polish it up to allow for the option you mention.

This forum doesn't give me the s***s BTW.... I can just see how it can be made heaps better.

Silly to through the baby out with the bathwater..... why start another forum?

Well if you want some sort of voting or membership system Im suggesting it will never happen so the options are to take this how it is or start another forum.

[st.byron]

Yep and if only 10 pay which I would expect then do you propse those 10 control the voting. I want to put in for player sponsorship but have no interest at all in being a member so what happens then? The fact is most people on here wouldnt give a tinkers about being a member or voting so it gets down to people who want change who will vote. Cant see that as a good thing.

This

[Cairnsman]

Yep and if only 10 pay which I would expect then do you propse those 10 control the voting. I want to put in for player sponsorship but have no interest at all in being a member so what happens then? The fact is most people on here wouldnt give a tinkers about being a member or voting so it gets down to people who want change who will vote. Cant see that as a good thing.

This

At present the website is at the peril of one person and his silent majority. I don't see that as a good thing either. At least with a few extra posters in the melting pot there will be more checks and balances.

[GrumpyOne]

But i want to sponsor a player. You are suggesting that would be included in membership. I have no interest in that and you failed to even answer the part about bugger all being interested and then bugger all controlling the place. And also the fact we cant get enough to cover MM with his sponsorship anyway. I honestly think if it didnt include sponsoring of a player you whould be lucky to get 10 people joining. Some will say im not paying until I know what the changes will be and we again go around in circles. GO why not start your own forum if this one gives you the s***s?

That idea is not set in concrete Plug.... It's only an idea. I'm sure that others can polish it up to allow for the option you mention.

This forum doesn't give me the s***s BTW.... I can just see how it can be made heaps better.

Silly to through the baby out with the bathwater..... why start another forum?

Well if you want some sort of voting or membership system Im suggesting it will never happen so the options are to take this how it is or start another forum.

No.

Why can't you get the idea that things don't have to be as they always have been?

There is always opportunity for improvement. In life, if you are not moving forward you are moving backwards. There is no standing still.

This forum could be something special, just needs a kickstart.

[asiu]

/|\
that.

**************


ok , my turn.

... way back when , Cairnsy brought up another issue
that i thought 'on target' , with regards to a well organised site.

it centred around only one person having Admin skills
being available and compentant with said skills.

Has Simon taken on an 'apprentice' with regards to this issue ?
... if not , why hasnt st.byron been brought up to speed at the very least.

[asiu]

edit post gawn.
... another of those double post thingies

[plugger66]

But i want to sponsor a player. You are suggesting that would be included in membership. I have no interest in that and you failed to even answer the part about bugger all being interested and then bugger all controlling the place. And also the fact we cant get enough to cover MM with his sponsorship anyway. I honestly think if it didnt include sponsoring of a player you whould be lucky to get 10 people joining. Some will say im not paying until I know what the changes will be and we again go around in circles. GO why not start your own forum if this one gives you the s***s?

That idea is not set in concrete Plug.... It's only an idea. I'm sure that others can polish it up to allow for the option you mention.

This forum doesn't give me the s***s BTW.... I can just see how it can be made heaps better.

Silly to through the baby out with the bathwater..... why start another forum?

Well if you want some sort of voting or membership system Im suggesting it will never happen so the options are to take this how it is or start another forum.

No.

Why can't you get the idea that things don't have to be as they always have been?

There is always opportunity for improvement. In life, if you are not moving forward you are moving backwards. There is no standing still.

This forum could be something special, just needs a kickstart.

I think this thread shows why it cant happen. Even those wanting change want different things to happen and I also gave you logical reasons why people will not pay to be a member. As for your comments on life that maybe true but im sorry this isnt real life. We dont know each other and we could all be pies supporters for all we know. I reckon we just fix up the forum to its maximum potential as fas as technical stuff is concerned and leave the rest to the mods.

[asiu]

It is happening !
Right in front of your very eyes.

The differing opinions u noted
show just as clearly no 'group think' agenda
to take over the site.

Enough of the spam.

[plugger66]

It is happening !
Right in front of your very eyes.

The differing opinions u noted
show just as clearly no 'group think' agenda
to take over the site.

Enough of the spam.

Agreed. Time for you guys to give up and just hope they can make technical improvements to the site.

[asiu]

Marto's over at Big Footy.
Cons back on the Ham Forum.

cant u bombard someone else with your
need to argue in ever decreasing circles ?

Pluggers view.
It cant happen.
It wont happen.
It shouldnt happen.

do we need endless reams of quoted posts every 2 minutes
We get it.

Position noted.
thanx for your involvement.