Petracca Vs McCartin

[Bluthy]

I like both but we'd be negligent not to take McCartin. Paddy had a down champs whereas Petracca dominated. But looking at the bigger picture, there are some very good qualities McCartin possesses that will make him a quality AFL forward. He plays in a tougher spot as well as a tougher position for teams to fill. Petracca will have the more immediate impact but that should have little bearing on selecting Paddy seeing as we are a while away from competing again. I get that Paddy is not seen in the same light as recent tall forwards but saying that Petracca is no way the talent of recent draftees such as O'Meara, Whitfield and Brad Crouch. If we had to choose between one of those and Paddy I would go the midfielder but we aren't. Paddy for me.

This. From the little I've read they say Petracca is a forward who may start playing in the midfield. We've got Billings for that and he could be a one off. If you want a mid then nominate a specialist mid. Anyone can "play through the midfield" The onballers who make a real impact in AFL are dedicated mids who were born for it and are learning that craft from a really early age. We've been recruiting way too many players who are "betwixt and between" like Dunnell, Newnes, Murdoch, TDL, Milera, Shenton, Saunders etc - not mids, not forwards, not backs but somewhere inbetween. The would get the dreaded "utility" label 20 years ago. What I loved about the last draft is that we picked players for specific roles which smacks of Pelchens infamous spreadsheet. Long may his Excel excel with well defined players.

[Junior]

Dale Weightman played his career with Diabetes and had no issues, I cannot see why McCartin would struggle as he has grown up with it.

Issue with Cripps,was he got it just before he was drafted so he had no understanding or routine as to how to handle it.

[sax]

Everyone says Wright is only a ruckman!
If we're all going to say "draft McKenzie" after one 10 goal haul. He has only kicked 19 goals in 7 games.
Peter Wright has played 7 matches & kicked 24 after kicking 0 in his first game. Basically 4 goals per game!
Wrights 7 games: 0, 5, 3, 3, 6, 3, 4 = 24
McKenzies 7 games: 2, 3, 1, 1, 1, 10, 1 = 19

But in saying that McArtin's kicked 4 & 7 in his two games!

I' think pick one is still out of Wright & McArtin, if we are going to take a key forward!

[ROLS-LEE]

No use of having a marking forward if we can't deliver the ball to him. Mids first IMHO

Correct. Petrecca for me 2. He is a mid that can go forward. We need them.

[cwrcyn]

You can get midfielders much easier than you can get key forwards. I'd say the ratio is about 12 to one at least. If McCartin is a genuine talent and he's ranked in the top 3 in this draft, the it would be foolish not to select him. Riewoldt and Koschitze were recruited 14 years ago. How many key forwards have been recruited across all clubs since that time? At our own club how many? hawthorn picked up Franklin and Roughead and it set them up for a decade. Richmond picked up J Riewoldt 7 years ago. Have they picked up a key forward since? Brisbane are still looking for one to replace Brown, having known for years that this day would come. Outside of Hawkins, who has been Geelong's other great key forward get in the past 15 years. Tthey are just so hard to find. Carlton are still looking for a decent forward. Freo have come up with one since Pavlich established himself.

[plugger66]

You can get midfielders much easier than you can get key forwards. I'd say the ratio is about 12 to one at least. If McCartin is a genuine talent and he's ranked in the top 3 in this draft, the it would be foolish not to select him. Riewoldt and Koschitze were recruited 14 years ago. How many key forwards have been recruited across all clubs since that time? At our own club how many? hawthorn picked up Franklin and Roughead and it set them up for a decade. Richmond picked up J Riewoldt 7 years ago. Have they picked up a key forward since? Brisbane are still looking for one to replace Brown, having known for years that this day would come. Outside of Hawkins, who has been Geelong's other great key forward get in the past 15 years. Tthey are just so hard to find. Carlton are still looking for a decent forward. Freo have come up with one since Pavlich established himself.

Game has changed a fir bit though. key forwards arent even averaging 3 goals a game these days. Luke Bruest has kicked more than most key forwards. I think the game may change even more with mids just continuing to dominate. If they are champion key forwards or at least very good they may be worth it but if they are run of the mill key forwards then they arent IMO. Obviously to early to know what McCartin is like but he has no where near the hype of Patton and Boyd and even though its very early both still have a long way to go. The other think is who gets it to the key forwards.

[cwrcyn]

I know we need midfielders just as desperately, but we are playing the long game here, and midfielders can be found in the second round of the draft and in next year's draft. We've played the long game with rucks and it will pay off. We don't need to look at another one for a long time. If we can put the key forward and key defender thing to bed in the next two drafts, then we can then focus on midfielders, who, as history show, can come up to speed much quicker then the big guys. So, I'm your strategy is rucks first, key position second, and midfielders third, then theoretically they shuould all reach football maturity at around the same time. Makes a lot of sense to me

[cwrcyn]

I accept your theory on hoe the game has changed in relation to key forwards, but it's still noticeable when clubs don't have a big forward to straighten them up. The Bulldogs are a case in point. Lots of great runners, but to me they are crying out for someone big to take a grab up forward

[Old Mate]

The game has changed however theres still a place for tall key forwards and they are as rare as hens teeth. Qualities ones that is. So when you have the opportunity to grab a quality tall forward and I mean creme of the crop you take him without hesitation. McCartin won't be overlooked that would be incredibly silly by the club if they did.

[plugger66]

The game has changed however theres still a place for tall key forwards and they are as rare as hens teeth. Qualities ones that is. So when you have the opportunity to grab a quality tall forward and I mean creme of the crop you take him without hesitation. McCartin won't be overlooked that would be incredibly silly by the club if they did.

I agree that is you get a very good player or a star KF they are very important but what if you get a lee or Stanley. As I said McCartin isnt rated anywhere near Boyd and patton and they are still struggling to make a big impact and GWS have a much better midfield than us.

[gringo]

It comes down to who is better. Would you take Judd or Liam Jones. If Mc Cartin looks to be a gun then of course we would be silly not to take him. But if Petracca is a standout player we would be much better off with him. I think he is a very exciting player as he's already massive, was a mid sized half-forward but has reinvented himself as a mid. He looks the complete package. Mc Cartin is looking pretty good too but he's not a stand out like Boyd was. I will back our recruiters though.

[saintsRrising]

It comes down to who is better. Would you take Judd or Liam Jones. If Mc Cartin looks to be a gun then of course we would be silly not to take him. But if Petracca is a standout player we would be much better off with him. I think he is a very exciting player as he's already massive, was a mid sized half-forward but has reinvented himself as a mid. He looks the complete package. Mc Cartin is looking pretty good too but he's not a stand out like Boyd was. I will back our recruiters though.

This.

Big forwards are no certainty.

Watts?

And look at the 2006 Draft:

The later KPP were better than the early pick ones.

Round Pick Drafted By Player Current Team Games Since Drafted
1 1 Carlton Bryce Gibbs Carlton 171
1 2 Essendon Scott Gumbleton Fremantle 35
1 3 North Melbourne Lachlan Hansen North Melbourne 114
1 4 Brisbane Matthew Leuenberger Brisbane 93
1 5 Port Adelaide Travis Boak Port Adelaide 146
1 6 Hawthorn Mitchell Thorp 2
1 7 Geelong Joel Selwood Geelong 176
1 8 Collingwood Ben Reid Collingwood 95
1 9 St Kilda David Armitage St Kilda 101
1 10 Collingwood Nathan Brown Collingwood 93
1 11 Western Bulldogs Andrejs Everitt Carlton 95
1 12 Melbourne James Frawley Melbourne 133
1 13 Richmond Jack Riewoldt Richmond 150


If you believe that Mc Cartin is an out and out gun, then yes grab him. Otherwise Petracca could be what we need.

[Old Mate]

The game has changed however theres still a place for tall key forwards and they are as rare as hens teeth. Qualities ones that is. So when you have the opportunity to grab a quality tall forward and I mean creme of the crop you take him without hesitation. McCartin won't be overlooked that would be incredibly silly by the club if they did.

I agree that is you get a very good player or a star KF they are very important but what if you get a lee or Stanley. As I said McCartin isnt rated anywhere near Boyd and patton and they are still struggling to make a big impact and GWS have a much better midfield than us.

There's a reason McCartin is touted as the obvious pick 1 and its not because he is the same talent as Lee or Stanley.

Its difficult to compare McCartin with Boyd and Patton although McCartin did compete as a bottom ager in the national champs in the same comp as Boyd last year and in a game booted 5 goals and took 10 marks.

McCartin has had an injury riddled year and hasn't played a lot of footy. He has still managed 4 and 7 goals from two games for the Falcons so not going too badly at all. Brad Johnson who watches a lot of junior talent says McCartin is the best mark he's seen come through the system.

Too early to tell who has the better career out of Boyd, Patton and McCartin even no some have projected higher in junior footy - but all pick 1's (McCartin future pick 1) in the national draft says all three are very talented kids.

[plugger66]

The game has changed however theres still a place for tall key forwards and they are as rare as hens teeth. Qualities ones that is. So when you have the opportunity to grab a quality tall forward and I mean creme of the crop you take him without hesitation. McCartin won't be overlooked that would be incredibly silly by the club if they did.

I agree that is you get a very good player or a star KF they are very important but what if you get a lee or Stanley. As I said McCartin isnt rated anywhere near Boyd and patton and they are still struggling to make a big impact and GWS have a much better midfield than us.

There's a reason McCartin is touted as the obvious pick 1 and its not because he is the same talent as Lee or Stanley.

Its difficult to compare McCartin with Boyd and Patton although McCartin did compete as a bottom ager in the national champs in the same comp as Boyd last year and in a game booted 5 goals and took 10 marks.

McCartin has had an injury riddled year and hasn't played a lot of footy. He has still managed 4 and 7 goals from two games for the Falcons so not going too badly at all. Brad Johnson who watches a lot of junior talent says McCartin is the best mark he's seen come through the system.

Too early to tell who has the better career out of Boyd, Patton and McCartin even no some have projected higher in junior footy - but all pick 1's (McCartin future pick 1) in the national draft says all three are very talented kids.

Jack watts was pick one though. Look i have no idea about who is better or not and the club would obviously know more but I really worry about mark and kick forwards in todays footy but if we get him I hope he is the next Jono Brown.

[Old Mate]

.....

And look at the 2006 Draft:

.....

A lot has changed in regards to identifying talent in the draft since 2006.

What's noticeable is you have to give up a very high draft pick to get a high quality tall. You rarely find quality tall forwards outside the first round of the draft unlike mids where you find them all the way through the draft.

[Old Mate]

Jack watts was pick one though. Look i have no idea about who is better or not and the club would obviously know more but I really worry about mark and kick forwards in todays footy but if we get him I hope he is the next Jono Brown.

I see a lot of talent in Watts and in a better development system than Melbourne would be one of the best players in the competition IMO.

[plugger66]

Jack watts was pick one though. Look i have no idea about who is better or not and the club would obviously know more but I really worry about mark and kick forwards in todays footy but if we get him I hope he is the next Jono Brown.

I see a lot of talent in Watts and in a better development system than Melbourne would be one of the best players in the competition IMO.

Well he has talent but lacks heart and toughness and you cant get that just you are pick one. And he bloody lazy.

[Old Mate]

Jack watts was pick one though. Look i have no idea about who is better or not and the club would obviously know more but I really worry about mark and kick forwards in todays footy but if we get him I hope he is the next Jono Brown.

I see a lot of talent in Watts and in a better development system than Melbourne would be one of the best players in the competition IMO.

Well he has talent but lacks heart and toughness and you cant get that just you are pick one. And he bloody lazy.

I don't believe Melbourne helped him in that regard. I reckon if Ross Lyon or Paul Roos were his coach from the get-go you would see a very different product. We'll never no for sure though.

[Bunk_Moreland]

From no scientific analysis at all I would say go for the KPP.

Really hard to get a good one.

He could be a Riewoldt or could be a Kosi.

A gamble but one to take

[Dave McNamara]

IMHO Saintsationalists who push the importance of big key forwards are correct. This is where recent Poodle sides went wrong, and where the Tuggers, Carlscum and Nuff Nuff have gone wrong.

However it could be argued that things are slightly different with our current situation. Next year's draft may well offer up better key forwards, and combined with our salary cap management, we should be able to secure some top line key forwards next draft period.

Hence, I say go for Petracca. He is strong, ferocious, and plays both 'inside and outside'. As a bonus he takes a strong grab overhead and seems to kick goals both as a midfielder and as a forward.

I reckon jarry's opening post sums it up. Petracca this year, and key forwards (via various means) next year.

[Old Mate]

IMHO Saintsationalists who push the importance of big key forwards are correct. This is where recent Poodle sides went wrong, and where the Tuggers, Carlscum and Nuff Nuff have gone wrong.

However it could be argued that things are slightly different with our current situation. Next year's draft may well offer up better key forwards, and combined with our salary cap management, we should be able to secure some top line key forwards next draft period.

Hence, I say go for Petracca. He is strong, ferocious, and plays both 'inside and outside'. As a bonus he takes a strong grab overhead and seems to kick goals both as a midfielder and as a forward.

I reckon jarry's opening post sums it up. Petracca this year, and key forwards (via various means) next year.

This year is the year to load up on talls, Dave. Next year the top few will be mids.

[lloyd21]

The game has changed however theres still a place for tall key forwards and they are as rare as hens teeth. Qualities ones that is. So when you have the opportunity to grab a quality tall forward and I mean creme of the crop you take him without hesitation. McCartin won't be overlooked that would be incredibly silly by the club if they did.

I agree that is you get a very good player or a star KF they are very important but what if you get a lee or Stanley. As I said McCartin isnt rated anywhere near Boyd and patton and they are still struggling to make a big impact and GWS have a much better midfield than us.

There's a reason McCartin is touted as the obvious pick 1 and its not because he is the same talent as Lee or Stanley.

Its difficult to compare McCartin with Boyd and Patton although McCartin did compete as a bottom ager in the national champs in the same comp as Boyd last year and in a game booted 5 goals and took 10 marks.

McCartin has had an injury riddled year and hasn't played a lot of footy. He has still managed 4 and 7 goals from two games for the Falcons so not going too badly at all. Brad Johnson who watches a lot of junior talent says McCartin is the best mark he's seen come through the system.

Too early to tell who has the better career out of Boyd, Patton and McCartin even no some have projected higher in junior footy - but all pick 1's (McCartin future pick 1) in the national draft says all three are very talented kids.

Jack watts was pick one though. Look i have no idea about who is better or not and the club would obviously know more but I really worry about mark and kick forwards in todays footy but if we get him I hope he is the next Jono Brown.


Totally different forwards Jack Watts is not a key forward never was going to be .
Watched him all his junior career , really smart and skilful player if had gone to a club like Freo would be a midfielder.
Melbourne killed the kid .

Love Patton really loves the contest brutal in a team like Hawthorn would be killing them best kick of them all.

Boyd is extremely powerful but more a lead type player not great below his knees but a huge unit.

McCartin is brutal loves the contact loves crashing packs likes hurting opposition , good below his knees , great mark mobile.
Not as good a kick as Patton.

We won't know till draft day at least we get a good player .

[Megamaguire]

I cant help help wondering if a certain northern club with a stack of good fwds but only 2 positions available might help provide the club with a strategy to firstly get the expected best mid who just might be as influential as Fife, Dangerfield, Judd or Hayes (couldn't help it) but also secure a very exciting fwd. talent to join Petracca @ the Saints.
I know i'm purely speculating but a double whammie of seriously talented players could really get us going.

[Dave McNamara]

I cant help help wondering if a certain northern club with a stack of good fwds but only 2 positions available might help provide the club with a strategy to firstly get the expected best mid who just might be as influential as Fife, Dangerfield, Judd or Hayes (couldn't help it) but also secure a very exciting fwd. talent to join Petracca @ the Saints.
I know i'm purely speculating but a double whammie of seriously talented players could really get us going.

Exactly!

I reckon we are nicely positioned to make that sort of thing happen... by the end of next year's draft. Patience, eh?

[arpstk]

He's more of a proctologist though- he'll disembowel the opposition. He's an ox. I can see him being a superstar in a Judd meets Dangerfield or Fife way. He is a goal kicking attacking mid that can play forward just as well. Think a young Paul Chapman kind of bulldozer.





SOLD! you had me at Fyfe