Administration Forum Rules

[SENsei]

Phrase of the day.

bated breath

Part of Speech:

n

Definition:

the condition of waiting for something to happen; subdued breathing due to high emotions

Example:

With bated breath, they went to the mailbox every day.

Etymology:

1933; based on bate meaning 'to moderate, restrain'

[Cairnsman]

Phrase of the day.

bated breath

Part of Speech:

n

Definition:

the condition of waiting for something to happen; subdued breathing due to high emotions

Example:

With bated breath, they went to the mailbox every day.

Etymology:

1933; based on bate meaning 'to moderate, restrain'

Impressive! Is that quote something you can read from nearby your keyboard. Hang on, let me guess, it's one of those "quote of the day" screen savers isn't it! They are awesome.

[SENsei]

Phrase of the day.

bated breath

Part of Speech:

n

Definition:

the condition of waiting for something to happen; subdued breathing due to high emotions

Example:

With bated breath, they went to the mailbox every day.

Etymology:

1933; based on bate meaning 'to moderate, restrain'

Impressive! Is that quote something you can read from nearby your keyboard. Hang on, let me guess, it's one of those "quote of the day" screen savers isn't it! They are awesome.

I don't quite understand your meaning. You are being very slippery. Could you please quote examples of these "quote of the day" screen savers to prove your point? I feel it is a great exaggeration to use these to back up your flimsy argument and I request you refrain from using them.

[asiu]

... next we'll have Stinger ere ,
calling Sen his 'mate'.

...ahhhhhhhh
maybe we ARE gettn the banned back together.

[Cairnsman]

What's up SENsaintsational? you got troubles in your life, are you struggling to find the answer all on your own? share your problems here with complete strangers and we'll see if we can come up with a solution. Anger and frustration are such wasted emotions, I know this to be true. BTW, feel free to add something of meaning to the discussion rather than running in from the side with bitchy snipes. You know it makes sense.

[SENsei]

I'll feel free to add whatever I like.

[SENsei]

And I am literally waiting with bated breath for the next instalment of your grand plan. So far very light on substance and heavy on sarcasm and sniping. But I know eventually you will come up with the solution that will save us all. But if it doesn't save us, I am sure the UN will be interested.....

[Cairnsman]

And I am literally waiting with bated breath for the next instalment of your grand plan. So far very light on substance and heavy on sarcasm and sniping. But I know eventually you will come up with the solution that will save us all. But if it doesn't save us, I am sure the UN will be interested.....

I thought you CBF?...

[SENsei]

You misunderstand me. I am actually in awe of you. You have mastered a skill I have never been able to no matter how hard I try. The ability to type plenty but say nothing is a skill not to be underestimated. You know it makes sense.

[Cairnsman]

You misunderstand me. I am actually in awe of you. You have mastered a skill I have never been able to no matter how hard I try. The ability to type plenty but say nothing is a skill not to be underestimated. You know it makes sense.

Good to see you have turned your day around then. I hope it's sunny side up for you tomorrow as well.

[Cairnsman]

Hi Cairnsman

You seem mostly worried by freedom of speech issues. I am not disagreeing with you on this matter, as I am an advocate of freedom of speech - but please read on.

Absolutely I'm worried about free speech, have you not been listening. If you go right back to our early PM correspondence you will also recall that I link the attributes of free speech and independence with being part of the sites strength and what sets it apart from the rest of the cyber places on the AFL social media landscape, our point of difference if you like. It was part of why I was opposed to you wanting to make a connection with other commercial entities such as the club/AFL, facebook, Twitter etc, we would just morph into an AFL controlled product.

I agree that the AFL cannot stop you (or anyone else) from using this site or any other medium you have access to - other forums, twitter, facebook etc to express your opinions. I have never said that you or anyone else do not have the right to write or say what you like, but whatever you say can have consequences to you and us.


Of course the consequences to the poster (as they retain post ownership) would be dependent on what criminal or civil breaches have occurred and who takes action.

What is of concern to Saintsational is that we are able to continue to exist and prosper, even after a poster posts something that breaches crimnal or civil laws.

First step of defence is the Saintsational rules - that is why we have rules, warnings and a banning system but it is designed (not by me) to create a harmonious forum and importantly the moderators have the right to edit, move or delete posts and this is essential to help ward off the possibility of the AFL taking action against us.


As such, any post has consequences in terms of warnings and bans for breaches - that bit is obvious!

Saintsational wishes to exist as is (with the continuing blessing of the AFL to exist and use their trademarked properties) without any interference HOWEVER they CAN take legal action to prevent our use of those trademarks IF and only IF a poster posts something that harms the AFL trademark or brand and they can effectively close us down. We could exist but the site would (a) have to change our name to not use "Saints" in reference to an Australian Football League team, we would have to remove all imagery that uses the St.Kilda logo, St.Kilda colours, St.Kilda jumper in reference to Australian Football League and whilst we could potentially all write in code - we would not be able to continue use the trademarked terms St.Kilda Football Club, St.Kilda, Saints or St.Kilda Saints in posts on this forum (whatever it is to be called) in reference to the Australian Football League, nor would be able to use the AFL owned trademarks of the other 17 clubs (not that we ever refer to another club by their trademarked name) - and lets be honest we would ALL stop posting and coming to this forum if that was the case - such an action by the AFL would kill this forum, BUT only if they were provoked into doing it. Quite clearly this doomsday scenario faced by other forums and a facebook site is not one we would like to invite.

If you do not agree that the AFL has this power (despite me showing you three examples where they have exercised this power in the past) then you are welcome to hold that opinion, but until you provide legal qualified opinion that proves this to be wrong, it is my intention as administrator to tread carefully and do my best to not provide the AFL with any reason to take such action against Saintsational. The scary part is that we cannot control what a poster may post - so we are still vulnerable.

The shutting down of the Lions Facebook page should be the impetus for us to try and find a way to avoid being at the peril of the AFL. Doesn't it bother you that the club/AFL could wake up one day and decide to shut us down (as you claim they can at present). The Lions supporters used a product like Facebook as their vehicle for a discussion board and that was their mistake. We use a free, non revenue generating open source program that we have control over.

The other two examples re the Pies and Hawks websites are irrelevant to the argument because they possibly had some breaches they couldn't easily tidy up. The details of those two cases are sketchy, do you have specifics so we can pull them apart in more detail?

Now your claim with regards to the club/AFL being able to shut the site down because there might be a discussion that negatively impacts the club/AFL is misleading. If laws aren't being broken how could they claim a discussion is negatively impacting them. What type of discussion would negatively impact them, umpires, school girls, rape, drugs, just can't think of a discussion that would break the law or licence in the way you claim it. Cyberbullying aside as this is clear and controlled by us already, what type of discussion would negatively impact the club/AFL?

Essentially this is why we have rules. This is why the moderators have the right to edit and delete posts. I think that this discussion highlights for me that we should take additional steps to further protect the site from the actions of a rogue poster who may post something that potentially harms the AFL and their trademarks.

Disagree that you should be spending time trying to protect the AFL and their trademarks, I will ask again are you receiving kickbacks or do you have a conflict of interest? Why not spend time on trying to find ways to protects SS independence. Here's a suggestion, why not ask the members if they value the site remaining an independent entity to the AFL, ask them the hypothetical question of whether they would opt to modify the site in the event the AFL tried to shut them down rather than be censored by them. Just curious, do you currently network with AFL/club officials? Do you see it as an advantage in your current business dealings to have a relationship with AFL/club officials?

In conclusion

- anyone can post anything here (so there is some freedom of speech - within the boundaries of law of defamation, cyber-bullying etc)

Obvious, did you also know water is wet?

- the AFL allows us to use their trademarks as an act of goodwill to fans - we are not licensed to use them, nor are we an accredited media outlet

Would the fans vote to remove all trademarks if the club/AFL tried to block free speech.

- the moderators can edit, move delete (for harmony and to hopefully protect the site in the best interest of the site from any legal action)

Noted and agree that this should continue to be a function of the rules and moderators, wouldn't want to allow any breaches of a law or licence would we?

- if we caused a media stir e.g. if a violent act occurred as a result of cyber-bullying on Saintsational, the AFL would act swiftly to remove our ability to use trademarks

If our rules and moderation system is working adequately then I can't see this happening.

- if we were unable to use the AFL trademarks - this site would lose appeal to posters and readers and die (especially as there so many alternative sites available)

Your untested view. As previously suggested, how do we know that the independence of SS is not what members value more than being able to have avatars and the like with AFL trademarks. As I say, I would be surprised if the members didn't vote overwhelmingly in support of making necessary site modifications in the event the AFL threatened to shut us down and block free speech. Again the alternatives are AFL controlled and all very bland places with comparison to SS. While you are in a question asking mood, why don't you ask the members what they think they like about SS with comparison to the AFL controlled sites and that includes products such as Facebook and Twitter.

As a final set of questions to you:

- what exactly are you proposing as an alternative?

put some provisions in place that declare and aim to protect the sites independence.

- what Saintsational Rules do you want abolished?

I'm not sure I want any rules abolished, I'm all for robust rules and whilst I think there could be some improvements I have tried to avoid being distracted by the rules and moderation debate other than to point out that I believe you use the rules/moderation issue as a mechanism to rid the site of certain posters. It is a side issue to my main concerns regarding independence.

- what do you want put in place to protect us from the AFL taking action against us?

Ok, getting some advice on this one so will come back to you soon. Essentially though I think we are pretty close to being untouchable by the AFL save for the tidy up of a few items.


- how do you propose we exist without trademarks (voluntarily now or if forced in the future)?

- There are organisations that do and I have contacted one in particular to find out how they exist without attracting any legal ramifications. I shall report back to you soon on what I find out.

I look forward to your further input.

Simon

p.s How much should I be asking from the AFL? I just want to see if I low-balled myself when they came a calling for me to be their imperialist puppet!

puppet...your words not mine

[Cairnsman]

I thought this was an interesting article....

http://www.theage.com.au/business/pirat ... 3b6i9.html

[asiu]

excuse my housekeeping ,
just movin
my ss playlist to where its easier to get to.

thanx for your understanding 'n acceptance.

[BakesFan]

"Beautiful Plumage" on that giraffot, gaz........or is it a Parroffe?

...either way; cool sig......I hope the men with ban buttons don't get him.

[Dave McNamara]

"Beautiful Plumage" on that giraffot, gaz........or is it a Parroffe?

...either way; cool sig......I hope the men with ban buttons don't get him.

What Bakes said.

Love your work with giraffes Gaz.

[asiu]

thanx boys ... i amtryhard to amuse.


+
as long as my favourite mod had a laugh
i'll be happy ... he's gett'n tooo tense for easy health.

[BackFromUSA]

Hi all

I think that everyone's opinion is well known and fully expressed on all matters ownership, admin, moderation, rules and technical features.

I am requesting a ceasefire!

A full review will be made in September / October with Damien.

This will give everyone 6 weeks to prepare a submission for consideration on any matters.

I shall request that a panel be established to review and discuss all submissions.

Panel members will need to reside in Melbourne or be prepared to travel as the panel will meet in person to consider everything. Resolution of issues will be by 2/3 majority.

Naturally Damien has to agree to any specific changes that impact his ownership or creates a legal liability.

Simon

[stinger]

Hi all

I think that everyone's opinion is well known and fully expressed on all matters ownership, admin, moderation, rules and technical features.

I am requesting a ceasefire!

A full review will be made in September / October with Damien.

This will give everyone 6 weeks to prepare a submission for consideration on any matters.

I shall request that a panel be established to review and discuss all submissions.

Panel members will need to reside in Melbourne or be prepared to travel as the panel will meet in person to consider everything. Resolution of issues will be by 2/3 majority.

Naturally Damien has to agree to any specific changes that impact his ownership or creates a legal liability.

Simon

sorry to read that actually....looks like you are caving in to the wishes of just three malcontents.....

[plugger66]

Hi all

I think that everyone's opinion is well known and fully expressed on all matters ownership, admin, moderation, rules and technical features.

I am requesting a ceasefire!

A full review will be made in September / October with Damien.

This will give everyone 6 weeks to prepare a submission for consideration on any matters.

I shall request that a panel be established to review and discuss all submissions.

Panel members will need to reside in Melbourne or be prepared to travel as the panel will meet in person to consider everything. Resolution of issues will be by 2/3 majority.

Naturally Damien has to agree to any specific changes that impact his ownership or creates a legal liability.

Simon

A panel for a little Saints website? Surely thats a little over the top. Just listen to peoples request and do what you can do.

[GrumpyOne]

Hi all

I think that everyone's opinion is well known and fully expressed on all matters ownership, admin, moderation, rules and technical features.

I am requesting a ceasefire!

A full review will be made in September / October with Damien.

This will give everyone 6 weeks to prepare a submission for consideration on any matters.

I shall request that a panel be established to review and discuss all submissions.

Panel members will need to reside in Melbourne or be prepared to travel as the panel will meet in person to consider everything. Resolution of issues will be by 2/3 majority.

Naturally Damien has to agree to any specific changes that impact his ownership or creates a legal liability.

Simon

A panel for a little Saints website? Surely thats a little over the top. Just listen to peoples request and do what you can do.

I stopped reading at the submission bit.... I thought that was over the top on its own.

[BackFromUSA]

Hi all

I think that everyone's opinion is well known and fully expressed on all matters ownership, admin, moderation, rules and technical features.

I am requesting a ceasefire!

A full review will be made in September / October with Damien.

This will give everyone 6 weeks to prepare a submission for consideration on any matters.

I shall request that a panel be established to review and discuss all submissions.

Panel members will need to reside in Melbourne or be prepared to travel as the panel will meet in person to consider everything. Resolution of issues will be by 2/3 majority.

Naturally Damien has to agree to any specific changes that impact his ownership or creates a legal liability.

Simon

A panel for a little Saints website? Surely thats a little over the top. Just listen to peoples request and do what you can do.

I stopped reading at the submission bit.... I thought that was over the top on its own.

Submissions don't have to be documents - they can be one line submissions if you want.

[GrumpyOne]

Submissions don't have to be documents - they can be one line submissions if you want.

How would I get on with:

Introducing democracy into selection of Mods

?

[Dave McNamara]

Submissions don't have to be documents - they can be one line submissions if you want.

How would I get on with:

Introducing democracy into selection of Mods

?

I'd vote for that.



How about a grassroots campaign to get a candidate elected? I like the sound of that 'Bruce' guy. Him and Jacqui Lambey as mods could be really interesting.