comparisons with port

[MC Gusto]

are really starting to irk me.

we are two very different sides and i think drawing comparisons are only going to open us to further criticism and pressure when we don't rebound as they have. so what if the coach came from port..? our list is a shambles and is miles off.

we have comparisons been made by the coaching staff and the players. In my opinion it is just plain stupid

[Plugger_87]

Good call, theyve been rebuilding since 119

[perfectionist]

Good call, theyve been rebuilding since 119

And it was a tough gig back then too. If you didn't perform well, your were transferred to the lions.

[Spinner]

Good call, theyve been rebuilding since 119

Exactly. Hate when ppl say it happened quickly for them. It didn't. They drafted well at successive drafts and took a number of years.

[bergholt]

Good call, theyve been rebuilding since 119

They had four very successful years in a row leading up to a flag in 04. They slipped and missed the finals two years later, then had a lucky last gasp in 07 before five years of missing the finals including one year on the bottom. Last year they came back out of that.

2000: 14th - drafted K Cornes and Cassisi (and S Burgoyne, now gone)
2001: 3rd - drafted no-one
2002: 1st - drafted no-one (Salopek and Ebert Sr both gone)
2003: 1st - drafted no-one (Chaplin and Surjan both gone)
2004: 1st (flag) - drafted no-one (Pearce gone)

2005: 8th - drafted Carlile and Logan
2006: 12th - drafted Boak, Westhoff, Gray and Stewart
2007: 2nd - drafted Lobbe
2008: 13th - drafted Hartlett, Broadbent, Trengove and Redden
2009: 10th - drafted Butcher, Moore, Pittard and Hitchcock
2010: 10th - drafted Jonas, O'Shea and Young (and Jacobs who's gone)
2011: 16th - drafted Wingard
2012: 14th - drafted Wines, Mitchell, Colquhoun
2013: 7th - drafted Impey

Ignoring 07 because that was an anomaly, they had basically 8 years of rebuilding the list - 2005 to 2012 - before making the finals again.

All the guys they drafted when they were up the top are gone now that they're good again. All of them. A couple of veterans left from before that but basically they've had to start from scratch. They picked up Schulz, Monfries and White to bolster that age bracket but their improvement has come from a core they built from 8 drafts from 05 to 12. And they didn't even draft that well in that period, just had a lot of picks and got a couple of stars and a lot of supporting cast.

So if we're following their model then our future core is going to be the guys we drafted in the last two years and on from there. Not many of the guys from before that are going to be still around in five years when we're hopefully starting to improve. What does that mean for our current list?

- Armo, Geary, Delaney and Steven will all be pretty old by then - they'll be our Cassisi and Cornes if they survive.
- Anyone older than them will be gone.
- All the guys drafted when we were good like Stanley, Siposs, Simpkin, Shenton should be gone. Maybe even Newnes, Ross and Markworth if we're following the Port model.
- Some of the younger foreign legion of Lee, Savage, Hickey, Roberton, Weller and Bruce might just be good enough to hang around.

The next core hopefully starts with Webster, Murdoch, Wright, Saunders, Dunstan, Billings, Templeton, Acres. The comparison is with Boak, Hartlett, Westhoff, Lobbe, Gray, Broadbent, Trengove. And the rest are still to come in the next three or four drafts.

But really to do a Port we need to find a Wingard and Wines in successive drafts in about three or four years. That's the really hard part.

[ROLS-LEE]

TThis why we need to Draft the best midfielder this Draft.

[saintsRrising]

But really to do a Port we need to find a Wingard and Wines in successive drafts in about three or four years. That's the really hard part.

Not to mention pick ups like Schultz.

[Con Gorozidis]

Agree with all posts.
they took years to rebuild and drafted well over several seasons.
our core group is going to be wright webster etc.

people who think we can rebuild quickly enough that roo and joey will still be around have rocks in their head.

[Bluthy]

Good call, theyve been rebuilding since 119

They had four very successful years in a row leading up to a flag in 04. They slipped and missed the finals two years later, then had a lucky last gasp in 07 before five years of missing the finals including one year on the bottom. Last year they came back out of that.

2000: 14th - drafted K Cornes and Cassisi (and S Burgoyne, now gone)
2001: 3rd - drafted no-one
2002: 1st - drafted no-one (Salopek and Ebert Sr both gone)
2003: 1st - drafted no-one (Chaplin and Surjan both gone)
2004: 1st (flag) - drafted no-one (Pearce gone)

2005: 8th - drafted Carlile and Logan
2006: 12th - drafted Boak, Westhoff, Gray and Stewart
2007: 2nd - drafted Lobbe
2008: 13th - drafted Hartlett, Broadbent, Trengove and Redden
2009: 10th - drafted Butcher, Moore, Pittard and Hitchcock
2010: 10th - drafted Jonas, O'Shea and Young (and Jacobs who's gone)
2011: 16th - drafted Wingard
2012: 14th - drafted Wines, Mitchell, Colquhoun
2013: 7th - drafted Impey

Ignoring 07 because that was an anomaly, they had basically 8 years of rebuilding the list - 2005 to 2012 - before making the finals again.

All the guys they drafted when they were up the top are gone now that they're good again. All of them. A couple of veterans left from before that but basically they've had to start from scratch. They picked up Schulz, Monfries and White to bolster that age bracket but their improvement has come from a core they built from 8 drafts from 05 to 12. And they didn't even draft that well in that period, just had a lot of picks and got a couple of stars and a lot of supporting cast.

So if we're following their model then our future core is going to be the guys we drafted in the last two years and on from there. Not many of the guys from before that are going to be still around in five years when we're hopefully starting to improve. What does that mean for our current list?

- Armo, Geary, Delaney and Steven will all be pretty old by then - they'll be our Cassisi and Cornes if they survive.
- Anyone older than them will be gone.
- All the guys drafted when we were good like Stanley, Siposs, Simpkin, Shenton should be gone. Maybe even Newnes, Ross and Markworth if we're following the Port model.
- Some of the younger foreign legion of Lee, Savage, Hickey, Roberton, Weller and Bruce might just be good enough to hang around.

The next core hopefully starts with Webster, Murdoch, Wright, Saunders, Dunstan, Billings, Templeton, Acres. The comparison is with Boak, Hartlett, Westhoff, Lobbe, Gray, Broadbent, Trengove. And the rest are still to come in the next three or four drafts.

But really to do a Port we need to find a Wingard and Wines in successive drafts in about three or four years. That's the really hard part.

This is going to drive MC Gusto made that this thread is now a Port comparison thread but I love your analysis Berg. One of our big problems was we recruited so many of these similar mid-sized almost generic kind of players - Murdoch, Ross, Roberton, Geary, Shenton, Weller etc without great disposal skills that we've never really thought about where they would play. It fitted the Ross Lyon mindset where he wasn't too focused on skill or structure but strong players who will follow his game plan. What I've loved about the last draft (when I suspect the recruiting team Pelchen Bains et al were actually allowed to do what they wanted for the first time) was we picked a real variety of kids each with different weaponry designed for different positions - Dunstan a tough extractor with good skills, Billings high skilled goal scoring x-factor, Acres tall, reads the play, possible backline general, Templeton speed, energy and movement forward. Great teams have real variety so if you shut down one aspect of their game then others step up.

[gringo]

I think we have had a two drafts with a higher than average hit rate lately, they are the way to rebuild quick. Get one or none out of each draft and it takes a long time. Carlton did it too. A few down drafting years and they have a hole. If we average 2 to 4 players who are elite to above average players every season we will rebound quick. We should follow Port's poaching though. Schultz, Polac etc are all very high level players who cost very little.

Last draft we recruited Billings, Acres and Dunstan who all look at least very high level capable. Then we got Eli,Longer, Delaney and Mav who all look at least GOP to very good players. The year before we got Hickey, Wright, Saunders and newnes who all look capable of being GOP or better with the possibility of being very high level players.
That's up to ten guys who have shown some potential and that's before the more speculative ones that might end up being something special in Milera, Lee and White. I also see potential in our back up rucks in Pierce and Holmes too.

Realistically we are going to have to be patient because Port had plenty of down years enjoying the slow progression while the kids built up and we will too. Not all players show Dunstan and Billings class from their first game.

[Enrico_Misso]

A good Scotch is always better.

[wally]

I think that most people think of Port 18 months ago,when they were crap broke and lost their way on & off the field.
Kosh went in to take over off the field,seemed like no-one wanted to be the coach, Hinkley seemed like last one left standing.
It all clicked and they improved above expectations.
That's what most people think when they think of Port, but the reality is they were down for a while but people forget how long.
Grant Thomas turned us around years ago.
Leigh Matthews turned Bris around.
Roos is going ok at Melb, how long they been down?

A lot of opinions are it can be done but shows a lack research thinking it happens overnight.

[saintspremiers]

The media have collective dementia remember. They live in a bubble of about 2 years. They actually create dementia in their own way and will quickly expel those who are capable of thinking beyond 2 years at a time.

[plugger66]

The media have collective dementia remember. They live in a bubble of about 2 years. They actually create dementia in their own way and will quickly expel those who are capable of thinking beyond 2 years at a time.

Arent people on here saying it as well. Thats how it works in footy whether its the media or supporters. If we win this week watch everyone say how good our future is and if we get smashed it will be the complete opposite.

[arpstk]

great post Bergholt thank you for your researching efforts...don't agree with all of your assessment though... think (hope) your out by 2 years and simply because they were rudderless in 2011-2012. If we can avoid that we should peak a little earlier.

2016 will be fun to watch the young guns develop
2017 will be our almost year and then
2018 we will be back
Im excited