T ommy Lee - footy crappifieds

[plugger66]

I would not be surprised if we try and trade him to Freo at the end of the year. Just gut feel.

I dont see how he is worth anything at the moment and if he comes good we need him.

[Cairnsman]

I would not be surprised if we try and trade him to Freo at the end of the year. Just gut feel.

I dont see how he is worth anything at the moment and if he comes good we need him.

You'd give him at least another year I reckon? Based on the fact we've used pick 12. We've come this far so might as well invest for another year just to be sure. Is there any harm in that strategy?

[plugger66]

I would not be surprised if we try and trade him to Freo at the end of the year. Just gut feel.

I dont see how he is worth anything at the moment and if he comes good we need him.

You'd give him at least another year I reckon? Based on the fact we've used pick 12. We've come this far so might as well invest for another year just to be sure. Is there any harm in that strategy?

I didnt say we shouldnt. i just said he isnt worth anything. Based on this years form though I would extemely disappointed if got more than a one year contract.

[gringo]

Lee was ordinary the week before and terrible last week. he nearly makes Seb Ross look like Bolt. He had to go off because he just doesnt work hard enough as shown by Bruce when he went forward. Lee wasnt getting a game earlier because his seconds form was poor. Nothing to do with the coach or should he play even when going badly. And who are these sore guys getting games. just because someone starts something on here doesnt make it true.

Just as you have no more knowledge of why he wasn't getting a game. I would go as far to say Richo has no more evidence of being a good coach than Watters. Last year Watters had a below par Dal and no full back coupled with Lenny missing a lot of footy. He still did okay. Richo started well has a few injuries and now has us looking the worst we have in 20+ years.

I don't think we should change coaches we need to back him in but I see some things I don't particularly like about his game plan either. I think besides the Lee issue who he seems to not rate, there are some players that should be played to see if they are up to it before we delist them. We aren't going to be any worse.

No I have no evidence why he wasnt getting a game but watching how the AFL/VFL has worked for 40 years they usually like you to play well in the poorer competition. Probably could have watched footy for a year to know that. Common sense. You are right there is no proof AR is a better coach than SW. There is also no proof he wont be better than RL.
If we are going to talk about last year he had Dal, Milne and even Kosi, who is better than Lee, Blake, Ben, an unjured geary and jack in much better form. last years side would be a 10 goal a game better side IMO. Lets be totally honest here you are hoping Lee will make it because you were the first to mention him and like all of us with bias we only see the good. How you could justify Lee's form at the moment in beyond me. I reckon it actually took a bit of balls to take a player off before half time. I want Lee to make it because he is a Saints player but i can see many faults at the moment. Hopefully he can fix some of them.

I find it bizarre how you think he can be judged on half a game. Shenton was written off after half a game. I don't care if he was mentioned by anyone, I think he has talent and also think he should be given a chance to build confidence in the seniors. I don't remember how good Billings, Longer and Acres were going in the reserves. Eli did play well in kicking a couple of goals in the preseason comp but that was enough for a call up. We are a s*** team with a large hole in our forward line yet he seems to have decided to stamp Lee's papers because he has a perception of him. If he bagged one of his players as someone suggested I don't think it works well to build his confidence. I don't think a development coach should undermine his kids. Fire and brimstone coaches are very old school. I hope we have some people in place to set a program to get the most out of him. We have invested heavily in him.

[LTN16]

What did he do to earn his selection in the seniors in the first place?

His form for sandy was nothing special, he apparently kicked 5 goals in a praccy match. Wowee how about doing it in the real stuff. He never banged the door down by kicking multiple bags of goals. Shouldn't have been selected in the first place..

[Playon]

http://www.sfnews.com.au/#!saints-discu ... assi/c1bbu

Later on the “Good Call Bad Call” segment, it was asked whether Lenny Hayes should ‘call time’ on his career similar to Darren Glass. The panel were absolutely disgusted that the question was even asked.

No later on they asked who is responsible for the question, Lyon, Wilson and Hutco all denied it and called it as bad form, which it was.
The only one that didnt deny it was the knuckle dragger Llyod.
It's right up there with his comment about how he is going to intimidate the rest of the competition like Tony Lockett does/did.

Llyod is a total wanker and enough reason NOT to watch that show, even when he's not commenting on the Saints

[plugger66]

Lee was ordinary the week before and terrible last week. he nearly makes Seb Ross look like Bolt. He had to go off because he just doesnt work hard enough as shown by Bruce when he went forward. Lee wasnt getting a game earlier because his seconds form was poor. Nothing to do with the coach or should he play even when going badly. And who are these sore guys getting games. just because someone starts something on here doesnt make it true.

Just as you have no more knowledge of why he wasn't getting a game. I would go as far to say Richo has no more evidence of being a good coach than Watters. Last year Watters had a below par Dal and no full back coupled with Lenny missing a lot of footy. He still did okay. Richo started well has a few injuries and now has us looking the worst we have in 20+ years.

I don't think we should change coaches we need to back him in but I see some things I don't particularly like about his game plan either. I think besides the Lee issue who he seems to not rate, there are some players that should be played to see if they are up to it before we delist them. We aren't going to be any worse.

No I have no evidence why he wasnt getting a game but watching how the AFL/VFL has worked for 40 years they usually like you to play well in the poorer competition. Probably could have watched footy for a year to know that. Common sense. You are right there is no proof AR is a better coach than SW. There is also no proof he wont be better than RL.
If we are going to talk about last year he had Dal, Milne and even Kosi, who is better than Lee, Blake, Ben, an unjured geary and jack in much better form. last years side would be a 10 goal a game better side IMO. Lets be totally honest here you are hoping Lee will make it because you were the first to mention him and like all of us with bias we only see the good. How you could justify Lee's form at the moment in beyond me. I reckon it actually took a bit of balls to take a player off before half time. I want Lee to make it because he is a Saints player but i can see many faults at the moment. Hopefully he can fix some of them.

I find it bizarre how you think he can be judged on half a game. Shenton was written off after half a game. I don't care if he was mentioned by anyone, I think he has talent and also think he should be given a chance to build confidence in the seniors. I don't remember how good Billings, Longer and Acres were going in the reserves. Eli did play well in kicking a couple of goals in the preseason comp but that was enough for a call up. We are a s*** team with a large hole in our forward line yet he seems to have decided to stamp Lee's papers because he has a perception of him. If he bagged one of his players as someone suggested I don't think it works well to build his confidence. I don't think a development coach should undermine his kids. Fire and brimstone coaches are very old school. I hope we have some people in place to set a program to get the most out of him. We have invested heavily in him.

Gringo why dont you count the seconds as well. They are games you know and most good players can play very well in the seconds. he hasnt at all this season. Shenton was playing well at sandy at least and anyway its game and half. He did play the previous week. And why are you mentioning young 18 and 19 year olds compared to Lee. They are completely different but even they had better form in the seconds. Longer probably wouldnt have got a game but Hickey got injured and we needed a ruckman. Who suggested he bagged him anyway? Was it someone in the rooms or a person on this forum? And I dont think AR is even close to a fire and brimstone coach. And I also hope he makes it but at the moment this season he hasnt done anything to suggest he even deserved a game let alone stay in the side.

[spert]

The TEAM is non-competitive, and it's not Lee's fault for a horrible team effort over the last month or two. Looking at that Geelong game, apart from a few flashes of interest from a couple of younger players, it looked like a team that didn't come to play. Might as well play Lee into some kind of form, as he showed some glimpses last season, and bring in Maister as well- I don't think it should be too hard to break into a team which getting regularly thrashed and has a terrible mindset of expecting to get a belting leading into a game.

Wouldn't mind hearing a lot more positive spin from the club leading into games, instead we have a belief system of expected failure throughout the club right now which is even worse than the '80s from my experience, and that doesn't get turned around in a long long time.

[plugger66]

The TEAM is non-competitive, and it's not Lee's fault for a horrible team effort over the last month or two. Looking at that Geelong game, apart from a few flashes of interest from a couple of younger players, it looked like a team that didn't come to play. Might as well play Lee into some kind of form, as he showed some glimpses last season, and bring in Maister as well- I don't think it should be too hard to break into a team which getting regularly thrashed and has a terrible mindset of expecting to get a belting leading into a game.

Wouldn't mind hearing a lot more positive spin from the club leading into games, instead we have a belief system of expected failure throughout the club right now which is even worse than the '80s from my experience, and that doesn't get turned around in a long long time.

What dont they say before the games that you want them to say and what do they say that you dont want them to say? And it isnt Lee fault that they are poor, well it is but only about one 22nd of the problem. That doesnt mean he deserves to play though. What he needs to do is look AFL standard and he didnt look that on Sunday.

[gringo]

The TEAM is non-competitive, and it's not Lee's fault for a horrible team effort over the last month or two. Looking at that Geelong game, apart from a few flashes of interest from a couple of younger players, it looked like a team that didn't come to play. Might as well play Lee into some kind of form, as he showed some glimpses last season, and bring in Maister as well- I don't think it should be too hard to break into a team which getting regularly thrashed and has a terrible mindset of expecting to get a belting leading into a game.

Wouldn't mind hearing a lot more positive spin from the club leading into games, instead we have a belief system of expected failure throughout the club right now which is even worse than the '80s from my experience, and that doesn't get turned around in a long long time.

I guess that's what I was trying to say. He in his second year of senior footy with no preseason and he's being set on by the fans. Even Rooey couldn't do much with the delivery we got. I would not want to be a developing forward in our team right now.

[Playon]

Stanley looks to be miles in front of Lee, 2 possessions until dropped, come one, you cant blame all that on delivery, the boy needs to learn how to present, and how to take the game on, sitting back waiting for a chest mark is not on. He needs to get on his bike, simple or he wont make it.

[skeptic]

I find it bizarre how you think he can be judged on half a game. Shenton was written off after half a game. I don't care if he was mentioned by anyone, I think he has talent and also think he should be given a chance to build confidence in the seniors. I don't remember how good Billings, Longer and Acres were going in the reserves. Eli did play well in kicking a couple of goals in the preseason comp but that was enough for a call up. We are a s*** team with a large hole in our forward line yet he seems to have decided to stamp Lee's papers because he has a perception of him. If he bagged one of his players as someone suggested I don't think it works well to build his confidence. I don't think a development coach should undermine his kids. Fire and brimstone coaches are very old school. I hope we have some people in place to set a program to get the most out of him. We have invested heavily in him.

This.

You see this happen to teams when they are losing all the time... especially the forwards

Lee was already written off after 5 games last season and finished the year pretty solidly.
We all know his entire pre-season was a write off and that he was limited in the build up he could do... throw on top of that an injury riddled team, a midfield that is getting smashed, extremely poor delivery... a Riewoldt centric mentality + allegedly Lee being used as a ruck too which he is not on the back ground on a 15 goal hiding.

Seriously what did people expect? Sink the boots in why don't we

The forwards are always the ones written off first especially the young ones. On this forum alone before turning good we were especially critical of Hawkins and Walker back b4 they came good too. Kosi was really seriously maligned too... see a pattern starting to develop... Cloke, Dawes Q.Lynch etc they were all rubbish at times or another.

The thing that bothers me is when players are written off before they really get a chance to develop. ANd I simply cannot believe that Lee as a player fighting for his career was not trying hard enough

If this forum had a hand in selection Ross and Shenton would already have been written off after their first games as have Dunnell and Siposs. As was Ledger the season before. I have no idea how so many people develop this skill of watching someone play for an hour and completely understand their scope for improvement

[gringo]

I find it bizarre how you think he can be judged on half a game. Shenton was written off after half a game. I don't care if he was mentioned by anyone, I think he has talent and also think he should be given a chance to build confidence in the seniors. I don't remember how good Billings, Longer and Acres were going in the reserves. Eli did play well in kicking a couple of goals in the preseason comp but that was enough for a call up. We are a s*** team with a large hole in our forward line yet he seems to have decided to stamp Lee's papers because he has a perception of him. If he bagged one of his players as someone suggested I don't think it works well to build his confidence. I don't think a development coach should undermine his kids. Fire and brimstone coaches are very old school. I hope we have some people in place to set a program to get the most out of him. We have invested heavily in him.

This.

You see this happen to teams when they are losing all the time... especially the forwards

Lee was already written off after 5 games last season and finished the year pretty solidly.
We all know his entire pre-season was a write off and that he was limited in the build up he could do... throw on top of that an injury riddled team, a midfield that is getting smashed, extremely poor delivery... a Riewoldt centric mentality + allegedly Lee being used as a ruck too which he is not on the back ground on a 15 goal hiding.

Seriously what did people expect? Sink the boots in why don't we

The forwards are always the ones written off first especially the young ones. On this forum alone before turning good we were especially critical of Hawkins and Walker back b4 they came good too. Kosi was really seriously maligned too... see a pattern starting to develop... Cloke, Dawes Q.Lynch etc they were all rubbish at times or another.

The thing that bothers me is when players are written off before they really get a chance to develop. ANd I simply cannot believe that Lee as a player fighting for his career was not trying hard enough

If this forum had a hand in selection Ross and Shenton would already have been written off after their first games as have Dunnell and Siposs. As was Ledger the season before. I have no idea how so many people develop this skill of watching someone play for an hour and completely understand their scope for improvement

I think there is a perception of if you aren't playing seniors you are gone sometimes. Lee has had about 10 senior games in total. Would probably be behind Ross who was last weeks whipping boy. Ross is probably only about 2 years younger than Lee and is a smaller player who never left the AFL system to go work a job and hasn't had injury interruptions.

[dragit]

Stanley looks to be miles in front of Lee, 2 possessions until dropped, come one, you cant blame all that on delivery, the boy needs to learn how to present, and how to take the game on, sitting back waiting for a chest mark is not on. He needs to get on his bike, simple or he wont make it.

Do you know how many possessions Riewoldt had when Lee was subbed?

I think he had had 4.

Probably good context… Inside 50's were pretty scarce and Lee was playing ruck against simpson.

Lee may be no good, but I'm not sure that game was a good one for measuring him on.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Anybody suggesting Lee did not deserve to be dragged on the weekend?

As healy said, Bruce showed more up forward in 30 minutes than Lee has in his whole AFL career.

Looks like possibly one of the worst swaps of a first round pick since Brookes

[Zed]

I would not be surprised if we try and trade him to Freo at the end of the year. Just gut feel.

Then they need to play Lee every week from here on to drive his value up coz finishing the season at Sandy won't get any thing

[skeptic]

As healy said, Bruce showed more up forward in 30 minutes than Lee has in his whole AFL career.

See this just isn't true... he played what 10 games last year kicked 17 goals and some on here actually thought he was alright

Amazing that Watters would persevere with him as much as he did if what Healy said was true... it's not

Comments like this just irritate me... it's just blatantly wrong and people are just stacking on. Crikey just give the kid a decent chance

[Dave McNamara]

He shouldn't have played... after shoulder(s) surgery and a limited preseason Tom has neither the upper body strength nor the aerobic fitness.

As I've posted before, Tom Lee and Spenc-arrrrrh White to play no competitive footy for six weeks...
just skills work, but mainly... hit the gym and the running track.

Then come back for the last couple of games.

Do it now please Saintas(!)

[Playon]

Stanley looks to be miles in front of Lee, 2 possessions until dropped, come one, you cant blame all that on delivery, the boy needs to learn how to present, and how to take the game on, sitting back waiting for a chest mark is not on. He needs to get on his bike, simple or he wont make it.

Do you know how many possessions Riewoldt had when Lee was subbed?

I think he had had 4.

Probably good context… Inside 50's were pretty scarce and Lee was playing ruck against simpson.

Lee may be no good, but I'm not sure that game was a good one for measuring him on.

Oh and do you know why he was subbed? Don't take my word for it.

[dragit]

Stanley looks to be miles in front of Lee, 2 possessions until dropped, come one, you cant blame all that on delivery, the boy needs to learn how to present, and how to take the game on, sitting back waiting for a chest mark is not on. He needs to get on his bike, simple or he wont make it.

Do you know how many possessions Riewoldt had when Lee was subbed?

I think he had had 4.

Probably good context… Inside 50's were pretty scarce and Lee was playing ruck against simpson.

Lee may be no good, but I'm not sure that game was a good one for measuring him on.

Oh and do you know why he was subbed? Don't take my word for it.

Why was he subbed?

[dragit]

I didn't see any of the game but F me, if I had to prove myself as an AFL footballer, key position fwd, coming off as injury interrupted pre-season, I would rather be playing just about anywhere in the league than the Saints forward line at the moment. Of the very few fwd entries we have, 80% go to Reiwoldt and even he is struggling to get a touch most of the time. Good luck with that Tommy, Rhys, Aaron or whoever else they put down there.

J Brown at the same age would probably struggle to get a touch. They are on an absolute hiding to nothing.

None of them are or ever will be champions but the chances of them proving themselves to be GOPs in this team at the moment, with the kind of delivery they are getting at the moment, (frequency and effectiveness) is somewhere between buckley's and sweet FA - no matter how committed to the cause they are.

Great post elvis…
Pretty toxic place to try and forge a career at the moment - our forward line…
Very few inside 50's and nearly all of them directed to a bloke who has 2 or 3 opponents, just impossible to look good in there as we've seen now from Miaster, Stanley, Siposs, Lee, Dunell, Hickey & Longer.

[Playon]

The Saints took just two marks inside 50 and subbed off forward Tom Lee before half-time. Richardson said Lee's negatives had outweighed his positives so he had to be removed from the ground.

"If you're getting beaten at ground level but more than not you're catching the ball in the air and giving us something to kick to then you hold your spot in the team. If not, you potentially become a liability and you go out. That happens," Richardson said.

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2014-06- ... conference

[Sainternist]

Craig Hutchison said that we will see more pain and that we will be ‘wooden spooners this year and next.’

Team should use this as motivation to prove the big dunderhead wrong.

i know lots of words that i could use to describe that fat useless bag of sheep droppings........dunderhead wasn't one of them...but good all the same.....

I could only think of that expression because I'm trying to keep my posts on here family friendly. Fat useless bag of sheep droppings is also an appropriate description for him.

[dragit]

The Saints took just two marks inside 50 and subbed off forward Tom Lee before half-time. Richardson said Lee's negatives had outweighed his positives so he had to be removed from the ground.

"If you're getting beaten at ground level but more than not you're catching the ball in the air and giving us something to kick to then you hold your spot in the team. If not, you potentially become a liability and you go out. That happens," Richardson said.

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2014-06- ... conference

Cheers, yeah I had read that from Richo already…

But we ended the match with 2 marks inside 50 & kicked 3 more goals for the match.

Lee must have been going pretty poorly to be subbed off, very unusual that early without an injury… still not sure what they were expecting throwing him into the ruck against Simpson, Riewoldt would stand a lot more chance than Lee. Stanley may be out of form but he's the only viable ruck/forward we have at present.

[Playon]

The Saints took just two marks inside 50 and subbed off forward Tom Lee before half-time. Richardson said Lee's negatives had outweighed his positives so he had to be removed from the ground.

"If you're getting beaten at ground level but more than not you're catching the ball in the air and giving us something to kick to then you hold your spot in the team. If not, you potentially become a liability and you go out. That happens," Richardson said.

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2014-06- ... conference

Cheers, yeah I had read that from Richo already…

But we ended the match with 2 marks inside 50 & kicked 3 more goals for the match.

Lee must have been going pretty poorly to be subbed off, very unusual that early without an injury… still not sure what they were expecting throwing him into the ruck against Simpson, Riewoldt would stand a lot more chance than Lee. Stanley may be out of form but he's the only viable ruck/forward we have at present.

Its pretty harsh, more or less saying he was a liability. It'd be really difficult as a forward atm. Poor delivery, not entering our forward 50 often etc. But its like I said he needs to get on his bike, get up the ground, offer a contest and take a grab or 2, if he cant do those things then he's in trouble. Stanley is at least offering an option, So far he hasn't looked like it in the VFL so I don't see how he was going to make it in the seniors. I don't imagine injury would be a concern for him either or he wouldn't of played.

Perhaps he's a project in the works, but we're in desperate needs of a forward or 3, especially when Roo retires, on current form I don't see him making it, but I'm more than happy to be wrong and hope he turns it around.