No 1 Draft Pick

[Saintlester]

Rory Sloane + Jarrod Lyons + mid 30's pick for pick 1?

[skeptic]

Thought I'd go back and have a look at the drafts for KPP/rucks

From KPP players 2001-2009 drafts, top 20 picks that are reasonable'ish picks or better

2001
Polak #4
Hale #7

2002
Brennan #3
McIntosh #9
Minson #20

2003
Bradley #7
Chaplin #15

2004
Roughhead #2
Franklin #4
Williams #5
Wood #18

2005
Ryder #7
M. Clarke #9

2006
Gumbleton #2
Luenberger #4
N. Brown # 10
Frawley #12
Riewoldt #13
M. Brown #16
Hampson # 17

2007
Kruezer #1
Henderson #8
McEvoy # 9
Veszpremi #11
Taylor #17

2008
Natinui #2
Hurley #5
Vickery #8
Taylor #17

2009
None

2006 was a bit of an outlier in the sense that it was a good draft for talls otherwise there are not really more than 2 really good talls in the top 20 per season and they haven't necessarily gone number 1 either

[gringo]

The stand out often drift and some outsiders start to firm at this stage. Petracca is having his value lifted every time he plays. Goddard was going umber 1 for the lst couple of years, Mc cartin is supposedly coming close to pick one. Two meter Peter has definitely dropped off in the pick one talks and Lonie and Pickett could come into the top 20 picks etc. It's still pretty open and if some one like Mc Cartin kicked 8 goals would almost be an automatic pick one. Same goes for Wright or durdin etc.

[borderbarry]

The only teams who could offer us two 1st round picks, guess, that's right, GWS and GC.
At this stage GC could offer us Picks 10 and 15.
GWS Picks 3 and 19. Would not be worthwhile for GWS unless they climb further up the ladder, which I think they will do. If they move up two more places it might be worth their while. But would either deal appeal to the Saints?

[bergholt]

2007
Kruezer #1
Henderson #8
McEvoy # 9
Veszpremi #11
Taylor #17

Veszpremi is 181cm. Lobbe, on the other hand, who was pick 16 is 200cm. Robbie Tarrant, Jarrad Grant and Alex Rance are pretty big as well.

2008
Natinui #2
Hurley #5
Vickery #8
Taylor #17

Jack Watts? Phil Davis? Lewis Johnston, Tom Lynch, Mitch Brown, Ayce Cordy, Ryan Schoenmakers.

I don't quite understand your criteria, you seem to be plucking names at random to fit some pre-determined conclusion.

[skeptic]

MY bad on Veszp, I don't really know him... thought he was taller.

You got me for 2008... that was poor on my part.
Johnston I don't really know, Cordy doesn't seem likely to make it, was under the impression Schonemakers was more a runner than a KPP but again I don't watch a lot of games (seems to only play well against us anyway), Mitch Brown was on my list but I forgot to add him onto this when i typed it up... Tom Lynch was an bad over sight. Davis too

Still think my point remains valid though

[magnifisaint]

We need 5 #1 draft picks but that won't save us. Just have a look at how long it is taking GWS. They're still 2nd last.

[bergholt]

We need 5 #1 draft picks but that won't save us. Just have a look at how long it is taking GWS. They're still 2nd last.

They've only had two and a half years of footy?

[magnifisaint]

We need 5 #1 draft picks but that won't save us. Just have a look at how long it is taking GWS. They're still 2nd last.

They've only had two and a half years of footy?

Which means a Saints team full of young kids is going to take quite a while before they become anything. I'm thinking we're 4 years off the pace. 2018 might be an ok year but that's when GWS and GC will be dominating.

[sax]

Apparently there is no standout which is a bit of worry at this point. Just our luck.

wright is the standout....

So far Wright has played 2 x games in Under 18 champs

Game 1
1 goal - not in best

Game 2
0 goals - not in best

Difficult to call him a 'standout'.

By contrast Boyd only played one game last year and kicked 6.

Really?

From what I read,

Game 1 vs Vic Country
12 Disp, 2 marks, 2 goals, 100% eff, a fair bit of time in the ruck, not in best

Game 2 vs WA
11 Disp, 6 marks, 1 goal, 2 behinds, 82% eff, not in best

Game 3 vs Vic Country
DNP

Game 4 vs SA
16 Disp, 10 marks, 3 goals, 29 hit outs, 1st best

[plugger66]

Apparently there is no standout which is a bit of worry at this point. Just our luck.

wright is the standout....

So far Wright has played 2 x games in Under 18 champs

Game 1
1 goal - not in best

Game 2
0 goals - not in best

Difficult to call him a 'standout'.

By contrast Boyd only played one game last year and kicked 6.

Really?

From what I read,

Game 1 vs Vic Country
12 Disp, 2 marks, 2 goals, 100% eff, a fair bit of time in the ruck, not in best

Game 2 vs WA
11 Disp, 6 marks, 1 goal, 2 behinds, 82% eff, not in best

Game 3 vs Vic Country
DNP

Game 4 vs SA
16 Disp, 10 marks, 3 goals, 29 hit outs, 1st best

Sounds ok but im not sure we need 6 ruckmen in the side.

[Spinner]

Apparently there is no standout which is a bit of worry at this point. Just our luck.

wright is the standout....

So far Wright has played 2 x games in Under 18 champs

Game 1
1 goal - not in best

Game 2
0 goals - not in best

Difficult to call him a 'standout'.

By contrast Boyd only played one game last year and kicked 6.

Really?

From what I read,

Game 1 vs Vic Country
12 Disp, 2 marks, 2 goals, 100% eff, a fair bit of time in the ruck, not in best

Game 2 vs WA
11 Disp, 6 marks, 1 goal, 2 behinds, 82% eff, not in best

Game 3 vs Vic Country
DNP

Game 4 vs SA
16 Disp, 10 marks, 3 goals, 29 hit outs, 1st best

Sounds ok but im not sure we need 6 ruckmen in the side.

Im not a fan of the overly tall forwards, never have been.

But if he is the best, and a dominating forward who is also good in ruck like a tippett... we may have to pick him!!

[oldie60]

Paul Harding was no dud Stinger.

yep i know that...but he went home after three years and starred in the weagles grannie in 92.......cost us a shot at the flag in 91 allowing that blow-hard brownless kick a bagful......what was it 10 or 11 goals...guess paul wasn't a centrehalf back's bumhole

...never forgave hin..neither did the saints...bit like jamie shanahan in 97.... or guerra against the swans in the prelim final in 05...none of them got to play for the saints again

was harding worth a no 1 draft pick.....?..of course not......


we have been bent over for years.....two duds for russell green and any number of duds for plugger....think they see us coming...remember grant thomas being amused when he copped abuse from a couple of clubs for not trading the no 1 pick or any of our other picks in the 2000 draft...the rich powerful clubs thought we were getting uppity and beyond our station in life.....

I thought Paul Harding played in the ruck and pretty sure Frawley played on Brownless.

[Con Gorozidis]

Sorry Sax - you are right - I read the summaries - not the full stats and I had not included the game on the 14th.

He did not get in the 'best' until the 14th June game. So only 1/3. Still hardly a 'standout'. Kicking 6+ is a standout.


Player D K H G B CM UM T CL C FF FA CP UP I50 A EFF

P.Wright 12 5 7 2 0 0 2 0 5 0 2 0 8 4 1 1 100%

P.Wright 11 9 2 1 2 2 4 1 2 1 2 0 5 5 1 0 82%

DNP

P.Wright 16 10 6 3 1 1 9 4 1 1 1 1 6 10 1 0 88%

Read all about it here:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-14/v ... defeats-sa

[Spinner]

Sorry Sax - you are right - I read the summaries - not the full stats and I had not included the game on the 14th.

He did not get in the 'best' until the 14th June game. So only 1/3. Still hardly a 'standout'. Kicking 6+ is a standout.


Player D K H G B CM UM T CL C FF FA CP UP I50 A EFF

P.Wright 12 5 7 2 0 0 2 0 5 0 2 0 8 4 1 1 100%

P.Wright 11 9 2 1 2 2 4 1 2 1 2 0 5 5 1 0 82%

DNP

P.Wright 16 10 6 3 1 1 9 4 1 1 1 1 6 10 1 0 88%

Read all about it here:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-14/v ... defeats-sa

I had a read too and players like durdin and goddard and even mccartin didn't have good stats. Durdin app coming back from injury and mccartin might have now injured a quad.

Anyways, seems like fox will show the remaining games so we can all have a looksie!

[St Ick]

Would any one do pick 1 + Stevens for Shiel + Patton/Boyd + late first rounder?

A yes from me, it's not as though I don't rate Jack, but he isn't absolute a grade, he has his deficiencies too. Shiel, well, I put him above Jack at this stage and is younger too (less runs on the board though).

So really, it's pick one for Patton/Boyd with a first rounder coming back to us. I put those two guys in front of Wright, so therefore its a yes.

Gee you cant a have an ordinary year on this forum even if its through injury. Jack won the B&F by about 50% more than the next player last year when he is fully fit and now a guy who has yet to prove anything has passed him. I certainly wouldnt do the trade because GWS wouldnt do it. It makes no sense to them as they lose 2 young players that they have developed for one player and another draft pick that they wouldnt need. And its also no good for us because we lose one again from the age group we dont have enough of anyway. And we lose our fastest player in a very slow side anyway. Im sorry but I see it as a lose lose trade.

I probably deserve that whack. But you can't trade away second stringers and expect kids like Shiel to fall into your lap. So it's not me trying to move Jack on, its just me looking at what we get in return. The original question was would anyone do the trade and my answer was yes.

If Shiel wasn't pre listed, he would've been in the top few picks - I have always rated Shiel extremely highly, same class as Treloar, Ward, Cogs, Wifi. Boyd, Patton and even Cameron for that matter would be probably number one again this year. Then we get another first rounder to go with that.

Anyway, I think Shiel will be absolute a grade in a year if he gets a full preseason and I believe getting an absolute a grade mid is just as important as a decent forward, ideally I'd love to get him and keep Jack and pick one. Suggestions on how we do that?

[lewdogs]

I'd be surprised if we traded out pick 1. Pick 1 has brought us some real quality, a couple of them nearly one us a premiership. If Wright is 200cm and good, get him, we could build a fwd line around him.

[plugger66]

Would any one do pick 1 + Stevens for Shiel + Patton/Boyd + late first rounder?

A yes from me, it's not as though I don't rate Jack, but he isn't absolute a grade, he has his deficiencies too. Shiel, well, I put him above Jack at this stage and is younger too (less runs on the board though).

So really, it's pick one for Patton/Boyd with a first rounder coming back to us. I put those two guys in front of Wright, so therefore its a yes.

Gee you cant a have an ordinary year on this forum even if its through injury. Jack won the B&F by about 50% more than the next player last year when he is fully fit and now a guy who has yet to prove anything has passed him. I certainly wouldnt do the trade because GWS wouldnt do it. It makes no sense to them as they lose 2 young players that they have developed for one player and another draft pick that they wouldnt need. And its also no good for us because we lose one again from the age group we dont have enough of anyway. And we lose our fastest player in a very slow side anyway. Im sorry but I see it as a lose lose trade.

I probably deserve that whack. But you can't trade away second stringers and expect kids like Shiel to fall into your lap. So it's not me trying to move Jack on, its just me looking at what we get in return. The original question was would anyone do the trade and my answer was yes.

If Shiel wasn't pre listed, he would've been in the top few picks - I have always rated Shiel extremely highly, same class as Treloar, Ward, Cogs, Wifi. Boyd, Patton and even Cameron for that matter would be probably number one again this year. Then we get another first rounder to go with that.

Anyway, I think Shiel will be absolute a grade in a year if he gets a full preseason and I believe getting an absolute a grade mid is just as important as a decent forward, ideally I'd love to get him and keep Jack and pick one. Suggestions on how we do that?

Well i totally disagree about getting rid of Jack. I realise to get class you need to trade class but i dont see the point in getting rid of a player who at his best is just about our best player. Forget this year. it was stuffed when he did his foot. Unfortunately Jack is one of those players who need to be nearly at his best to perform. If he doesnt quite have his pace every little part of his game drops including decision making and kicking because he doesnt break away from the opposition.

As for the trade I still cant see why GWS would want to lose 2 players they have put 3 years into to get one experienced player, which is good, nut then another draft pick. As I have said many times you cant just continue to build, you have to eventually win games. I reckon that trade doesnt win them anymore games. It may in 4 years time but they cant just build. And it isnt a trade we would want either because we lose our best young player in the age group we lack. No idea how to get Shiel and keep Jack. Is the guy even available or is it our fantasy tade like the hundreds before?

[Cairnsman]

Rory Sloane + Jarrod Lyons + mid 30's pick for pick 1?

I reckon we've got to hang on to no. 1. I understand your strategy though, it makes complete sense re saturating the list with as many first rounders as possible but I just reckon when you get a number 1 you keep it.

We might be able to get a two for one deal another way and I'm sure it's in our plans...just can't think of what it looks like at the moment.

[Megamaguire]

An 'A'grade mid joining the rapidly growing list would be a genuine win in itself.
However if we have a Nb. 1 pick to favour the reasons to go tall would be strong indeed. Someone pointed out the historically small number of 202cm. KPFwds that really excel 'at the Lockett end'. (and Wright because of his height may actually be at a disadvantage) and that causes me to think about McCartin again. The pressure to find a 'genuine' replacement 4 Roo would be immense i'd have thought?

Alternatively being bold and swapping the Nb. 1 pick for a Fwd already in the system and already showing heaps of class should be well considered too i would have thought.
What a drafting headache! This could be real hard to predict accurately.

Keep studying the form please Sainters.

G O S A I N T S !

[Devilhead]

How good is talent coming through in this years draft compared to the last few years??

The last few drafts it seems have been quality

It get the feeling that the standard of player in this years draft is not as high as the last few - no stand out mids, forwards being talked up but no one player dominating

Trading the no 1 draft pick for some absolute quality from the last two drafts and maybe another high draft pick - like Melbourne last year might be the way to go

That said whoever goes number one is likely to be good player I only wish it was an absolute gun mid.

[plugger66]

Rory Sloane + Jarrod Lyons + mid 30's pick for pick 1?

I reckon we've got to hang on to no. 1. I understand your strategy though, it makes complete sense re saturating the list with as many first rounders as possible but I just reckon when you get a number 1 you keep it.

We might be able to get a two for one deal another way and I'm sure it's in our plans...just can't think of what it looks like at the moment.

There is no need to keep the first pick at all if you get the right trade. Chances of getting a champion seem to be about one in 6 and a very good player one in 3 and a good player or worse lately seems to be about every second pick. We have no hope of getting Sloane but to trade to get at least a very good player is a win IMO.

[Dave McNamara]

Paul Harding was no dud Stinger.

yep i know that...but he went home after three years and starred in the weagles grannie in 92.......cost us a shot at the flag in 91 allowing that blow-hard brownless kick a bagful......what was it 10 or 11 goals...guess paul wasn't a centrehalf back's bumhole
...never forgave hin..

I thought Paul Harding played in the ruck and pretty sure Frawley played on Brownless.

I can't remember CHB, but may well have been Harding on Bill Brainless(?)

Definitely wasn't Spud, as he spent the whole game humiliating GAblett.

The one thing GAblett did do though, and it was a game turner, was to take-out David Grant. Grant was chipping in and cutting off delivery to B. Brainless. Once Grant was taken out, that's when Brainless took over and won them that game.

The early nineties was a brief period during which B. Brainless got his act together and played to his considerable potential. But he was too lazy to sustain that. (If today's coaches don't like the effort from the likes of Tom Lee, well, one can't begin to imagine how they'd react to B. Brainless.)

Anyway, Billy soon reverted to type and became known as 'Puffin' Billy', and eventually to his team mates as 'Cinderella'. (That's gotta' be the 'best' nickname I've heard in footy. )



Hi Pluggs, to save you askin' re 'Cinderella'... what's the difference between Cinderella and Bill Brownless...?

[stinger]

The only teams who could offer us two 1st round picks, guess, that's right, GWS and GC.
At this stage GC could offer us Picks 10 and 15.
GWS Picks 3 and 19. Would not be worthwhile for GWS unless they climb further up the ladder, which I think they will do. If they move up two more places it might be worth their while. But would either deal appeal to the Saints?

essendon has a pick at end of round one.....think theirs may be 19 and gws pick 18......

[St Ick]

How good is talent coming through in this years draft compared to the last few years??

The last few drafts it seems have been quality

It get the feeling that the standard of player in this years draft is not as high as the last few - no stand out mids, forwards being talked up but no one player dominating

Trading the no 1 draft pick for some absolute quality from the last two drafts and maybe another high draft pick - like Melbourne last year might be the way to go

That said whoever goes number one is likely to be good player I only wish it was an absolute gun mid.

I dont want a high pick like Buntine or O'Rourke just because they were a high pick - thats setting up for a fall.

I am scared like all hell that Wright will be Gumby mk2. Remember Gumby was pick two. Not sure why, as Boyd and Patton are that tall too - I just worry due to his back and the fact he isnt completely ripping it apart like Boyd did last year. I do have a feeling we'll just shut up shop in trading the high pick and grab Wright.

Id hate for Shiel, Treloar, Patton, Cameron or Boyd to move and for us not to have our hat in the ring though.