Cairnsman wrote:My contact at that time, before and after I was a moderator (at that time) were the site administrator Battye and his co-administrator HSVKing. I did not feel it was appropriate to deal directly with Damien at that stage (despite having direct access) as my suggestions were more appropriately placed with the Administration he had charged to look after Saintsational. I respected the fact that they were charged with the responsibility and I in no way circumvented that hierarchy at any time. They will testify to that.
First of all it was not an "announcement". It was a suggestion made to garner support andf feedback. I took all feedback but it was obvious to me that you would never allow it. I never claimed at the time that I had been in contact with Damien. The fact is I diod not contact Damien until I was appointed administrator and only after I had dealt with family tragedy. And as an FYI I was not starting
http://www.saintsational.com as it was already owned and administered by Damien / battye AND importantly had been active previously as a website in the early days - and as a news website it was very popular and the articles written by posters were either informative or hysterical. We went to forum only format after the website could not be sustained content wise. I felt / feel that resurrecting this website format with the ability to connect to facebook / twitter etc was a great path. You disagreed passionately. I gave up.
The PMs, threads and posts still existed. I am happy to open them up to full examination if you agree. Suffice to say I feel that I was hounded into submission.
I am certain that I made it clear that I was not necessarily opposed to your plans but argued that of equal importance next to the value created by the members was the sites independence from the AFL, club and any other external entities that may want to exert influence over the site. I am certain I offered the suggestion of putting something in place such as a constitution or some other mechanism that would then allow the site to deal with the AFL, club or other external entity in a way that clearly disclosed and protected said independence. I did not say we needed to avoid dealing with said external entities, just merely suggested putting in place something that protects one of the sites most valued commodities.
The technical issue were fixed within a month of me becoming an active moderator if you do not count the 5 - 6 weeks where I was mourning a personal loss. Even if you do count that period - it was done within 10 weeks. It is a completely different issue to "attracting new members" ... you are the one who objected to my outreach strategy. Interestingly I genuinely do not remember you ever suggesting how we could attract new members. Perhaps you can refresh my memory what your suggestions were?
Invite people with profiles to the site was one.
I agree that we would like more contributors. I disagree that we have made "little inroads" - with 19 genuine new members in one month AND some old posters coming back into the fold - the amount and quality of footy content has improved. Sometimes quality is better than quantity. However we definitely do need to have a new member outreach program.
As for your claim that the creation of the integrated website would be the death of saintsational.net - I fail to see how. Santsational.net would remain as a forum entry and would have the added benefit of gaining traffic through the website. Anyway - if you believe it would have killed the forum then you are entitled to that opinion. I disagree.
That claim was based on you diverting time and money away from fixing the problems with Saintsational.com first and I couldn't see the point in starting another website and not fixing the problems with SS first. I also was concerned that a commercial website with ties to the AFL/club would just trade of the SS name and build it's membership by diverting members away from SS.net, goes around a gain in circle and comes back to ownership and independence argument.
Also Byron I do wonder about the rights of the members based on the contribution they make. IMO it is the members that give the place it's value and standing on the social media landscape, it is the members that have built it's reputation. It is for that reason that I think there is a rightful claim to some sort of partnership and share ownership between Damien and the members.
That is a very interesting point of view. I ask these questions then:
- who owns BigFooty? The users and posters?
Big Interest Group
- who owns facebook? The users and posters?
Public Company
- who owns twitter? The users and posters?
Public Company
- who owns instagram? The users and posters?
Facebook.
All of these sites have T&Cs that you agree to before being granted membership. They make sure they can do whatever they like with your material once you agree to their T&Cs. Saintsational does not have the same contracts in place with its members.
I am not sure if I ever called anyone a nutjob (i stand corrected if I have) ... but I definitely have referred to those that abuse and bicker as "toxic" as they were killing the site. If you were offended then I assume that you feel you were included in that group. That is for you (not I) to judge. If you are offended on their behalf, then that is extremely nice of you. Anyway we have created the Animal Enclosure to allow that style of posting to exist and flourish ... AND I have never been dismissive - I have listened to ALL sides on every issue ... just because the cards don't fall your way does not mean that I or we have been dismissive. I serve the whole community, not 1 individual.
Now that is offensive and shows little regard for history. this place would not exist except for Damien and his father's funding of it for the first 3 or 4 years. The amount of work he put into building Saintsational was incredible. So powerful was this site that coaches and Presidents became contributors. The club and AFL was in complete awe. I don't want break confidentiality but there are stories that verify just how impressed these and other organisations were with what Damien built. If you somehow think that the contribution of posters whether talking about football or bickering among themselves is FAR GREATER than the contribution made by Damien, then you are simply wrong.
Well you could argue that because Damien took his eye of the ball that it lost its grounding. That claim also then supports my idea of bringing more people with profiles to the site to increase contributions. You know BFUSA your agenda against the toxic posters has made it sound like a class war at some stages. I fear that if you misread the situation and get so bogged down in being committing to a fatal concept then SS could be lost for good. Now it is one thing to create a life, but it is another to grow a life. SS has not grown into a 15 year old because of Damien, he may have created it, but the members helped grow it. Damien and its members should stand side by side in ownership and administration.
I hope that adequately answers each issue raised.
I look forward to hearing your constructive suggestions on how we can increase membership and contributions.
Personally I still believe that a news and opinion based website that allows us to integrate into facebook, twitter etc is the best way to help fans find this forum.
Come half way and I'll try and help you all I can and if you agree to that then that will mean offering as many constructive suggestions as I can. Now Simon I am sorry if I have not address everything above as I am really tired and still have some work to finish before lights out so better save some brain power. Having said that I will probably read this again and cover anything missed.
Simon
Simon
) and Roger Fox, if I remember correctly. 
)... but that's not where his talents finish... 
