Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
Zed wrote:With no standout number 1 pick it also sounds to me that the number 1 pick we will end up with is just going to be an average AFL player and not 'the next 'Nick Reiwoldt' - which is one of the risks when you go down this path. We were lucky last time around that we snagged Nick & BJ with our number 1 picks. It could just as easily have been Watts & Scully - which looks closer to where we are going to land this year. No saviour in this draft. From what Im reading there are some guns in the 2015 draft pool and I reckon that we are definitely going to end up with a top 2 pick in that draft.
To use Champion Data ratings, Im predicting we will end up with players who will fall into the average category from this coming draft, rather than the above average to elite categories. May put our 2018 aspirations back by 1 year.
Really sensible analysis. Be nice to see how Pelican would spin this question if put to him. The only savour could be if it's a deep draft, ie if our other picks are good.
He'd probably say that the analysis above is purely a guess based on nothing.
The last time their wasn't a clear #1 pick was 2001.... how did that year turn out?
Fine. Didn't we have the first two picks Roo and Kosi? Weren't they equal number ones in the view of some?
Helps when you have a PP
Hodge, Ball, Judd draft.
Dal Santo, Joey, Swan, Bartel, Kelly, Stevie J, Mitchell, Ablett - best draft ever?
I wonder if recruiting is better these days or there were just an inordinate number of late bloomers but most of those guys above were selected with late picks.
MrCordz wrote:For the record - I know Tom Lamb's family very well _ grew up with his Dad from 4 years of age - know his mum - daughter of Ian Cooper - not the right fit for St.Kilda - but to a stronger club I hope he kills it!
why not...??
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
MrCordz wrote:For the record - I know Tom Lamb's family very well _ grew up with his Dad from 4 years of age - know his mum - daughter of Ian Cooper - not the right fit for St.Kilda - but to a stronger club I hope he kills it!
why not...??
Because he's a loose unit. Needs to be at a club with a strong culture and boundaries. From what I've heard anyway. I'm not sure setting fire to dwarfs would be good for his development.
MrCordz wrote:For the record - I know Tom Lamb's family very well _ grew up with his Dad from 4 years of age - know his mum - daughter of Ian Cooper - not the right fit for St.Kilda - but to a stronger club I hope he kills it!
why not...??
Because he's a loose unit. Needs to be at a club with a strong culture and boundaries. From what I've heard anyway. I'm not sure setting fire to dwarfs would be good for his development.
I dont see how we get him anyway. Unless something amazing happens I doubt he is pick one or two or pick 20. A mate of mine who teaches at parkdale says he is ok at school but he doesnt actually teach him in classes but obviously he is well known to all the teachers interested in footy.
MrCordz wrote:For the record - I know Tom Lamb's family very well _ grew up with his Dad from 4 years of age - know his mum - daughter of Ian Cooper - not the right fit for St.Kilda - but to a stronger club I hope he kills it!
why not...??
Because he's a loose unit. Needs to be at a club with a strong culture and boundaries. From what I've heard anyway. I'm not sure setting fire to dwarfs would be good for his development.
at least the jones boy only lit a little fire....under a little person... ....did you watch wolf of wall street...they used to throw them at targets....been to pubs many years ago where they used to have little persons throwing competitions...or use them as a bowling ball in a game of skittles...... used to be called good clean fun......the saints would give the boy a well rounded education.....
..on a more serious note...i read the same sort of crap about jack darling...and it was just that ..crap...caused us and a few other clubs to overlook a potential 200 game champion.......
...unless you know the guy personally or are related to him closely...like a brother for example...don't spread gossip......
...and for the record...our culture is as good as any of the other clubs....even if you think it is not.....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"The new under-18 competition is halfway through, and has raised more questions than it has answered about the pointy end of this year’s draft. Which keeps things interesting, mostly for the recruiters who will be picking there. This could be a year where they won’t be too disappointed if they miss out on pick one, given the evenness of the group and the lack of one blatant stand-out.
With three rounds to go, no player has really insisted that the top spot be theirs. That may well happen in the next few weeks but at the moment the same names are thereabouts, still dividing people. Peter Wright missed Vic Metro’s 44-point loss to Vic Country on Sunday, with Metro deciding to fulfil the requirement to give 32 players at least two games in the first three games before settling its side down, and the tall forward/ruckman is maybe one big game away from satisfying some of the recruiters’ queries, mostly tied in to whether they think he's more of a forward or ruckman.
Tom Lamb, a hard-running but quirky forward, has balanced some of his best how-did-he-do-that football with losses of concentration that have recruiters unsure how high he’ll push up the order. He missed on Sunday with a minor groin problem but will be interesting to watch in the last few rounds as will Harry Dear and Zaine Cordy, father-son options for Hawthorn and the Western Bulldogs who keep showing bigger and longer glimpses.
....my head says peter wright ...but my heart says go for ian cooper's grandson....
Is Ian Cooper's grandson's father's name Luke Cooper by any chance? I went to primary school with him back in the 70s.
"The new under-18 competition is halfway through, and has raised more questions than it has answered about the pointy end of this year’s draft. Which keeps things interesting, mostly for the recruiters who will be picking there. This could be a year where they won’t be too disappointed if they miss out on pick one, given the evenness of the group and the lack of one blatant stand-out.
With three rounds to go, no player has really insisted that the top spot be theirs. That may well happen in the next few weeks but at the moment the same names are thereabouts, still dividing people. Peter Wright missed Vic Metro’s 44-point loss to Vic Country on Sunday, with Metro deciding to fulfil the requirement to give 32 players at least two games in the first three games before settling its side down, and the tall forward/ruckman is maybe one big game away from satisfying some of the recruiters’ queries, mostly tied in to whether they think he's more of a forward or ruckman.
Tom Lamb, a hard-running but quirky forward, has balanced some of his best how-did-he-do-that football with losses of concentration that have recruiters unsure how high he’ll push up the order. He missed on Sunday with a minor groin problem but will be interesting to watch in the last few rounds as will Harry Dear and Zaine Cordy, father-son options for Hawthorn and the Western Bulldogs who keep showing bigger and longer glimpses.
....my head says peter wright ...but my heart says go for ian cooper's grandson....
Is Ian Cooper's grandson's father's name Luke Cooper by any chance? I went to primary school with him back in the 70s.
The father is Wayne Lamb who played for Melbourne and Fitzroy, who himself was a bit of a loose cannon in his younger days.
A champion team will always beat a team of champions.
Zed wrote:With no standout number 1 pick it also sounds to me that the number 1 pick we will end up with is just going to be an average AFL player and not 'the next 'Nick Reiwoldt' - which is one of the risks when you go down this path. We were lucky last time around that we snagged Nick & BJ with our number 1 picks. It could just as easily have been Watts & Scully - which looks closer to where we are going to land this year. No saviour in this draft. From what Im reading there are some guns in the 2015 draft pool and I reckon that we are definitely going to end up with a top 2 pick in that draft.
To use Champion Data ratings, Im predicting we will end up with players who will fall into the average category from this coming draft, rather than the above average to elite categories. May put our 2018 aspirations back by 1 year.
Really sensible analysis. Be nice to see how Pelican would spin this question if put to him. The only savour could be if it's a deep draft, ie if our other picks are good.
He'd probably say that the analysis above is purely a guess based on nothing.
The last time their wasn't a clear #1 pick was 2001.... how did that year turn out?
2001 was widely acknowledged BEFORE the draft as being very strong and very deep. Last year was also thought to run deep until about pick 40. Im not hearing anything suggesting that this years draft has a strong top 10 or runs particularly deep. But Im just a mug observer. Nothing would make me happier than to see us contend in 2018.
Interestingly if you look at Port which everyone seems to point toward as the model, its interesting that it was the 2006-2008 drafts that delivered the bulk of their core talent, yet not until 2013 until they hit their straps. If we are on the same journey and 2012 was the start of building our core talent, then its 2019 before we are in the same position. And that doesn't take into consideration there are 2 extra teams in the comp now. Even the best recruiters cant do much if we are unlucky enough to bottom out when its a a thin talent pool.
“If you want the rainbow you gotta put up with rain” Dolly Parton
skeptic wrote:IMO need to go for a mid with our early picks
I'd prefer to take on the Syd model of trading for our key position forwards from now on... Unless they are ridiculously clear standouts
Post of the thread - totally agree
No stand out talls get the best mid quality we can with FOOTSKILLS and trade later for the gun fwds (our turn to rip the guts out of another club)
This isn't the draft where the next O'Meara or Whitfield is available. Brayshaw is the standout mid and he doesn't project like highly rated mids before him. There's a good chance the first 4 picks are key talls and Jake Lever would've made 5 if it wasn't for an ACL. Next year is a big year for mids.
I don't think Petracca will be in the top 3 but I think he will be a fantatsic ball winning/goal kicking mid. Fantatsic power and acceleration over the first 15 and he just keeps on taking his game to the next level. Going to be a gun. His basketabll background is very evident.
McCartin has better hands than Boyd, Hogan etc and he splits packs/hurts people that get in his way. Given the poor form of other so called potential no 1 picks, he looks certain now to go number 1.
This is a very light on draft given what we have seen at the champs. Probably been spoilt over past 2 years given depth, not this year though.
I think recruiters will be looking at all the 19 year olds playing in the VFL. I expect a record number of VFL players to be drafted this year.
Jimmy O'Dea wrote:I don't think Petracca will be in the top 3 but I think he will be a fantatsic ball winning/goal kicking mid. Fantatsic power and acceleration over the first 15 and he just keeps on taking his game to the next level. Going to be a gun. His basketabll background is very evident.
McCartin has better hands than Boyd, Hogan etc and he splits packs/hurts people that get in his way. Given the poor form of other so called potential no 1 picks, he looks certain now to go number 1.
This is a very light on draft given what we have seen at the champs. Probably been spoilt over past 2 years given depth, not this year though.
I think recruiters will be looking at all the 19 year olds playing in the VFL. I expect a record number of VFL players to be drafted this year.
Wouldn't that be great if GWS added McCartin to Boyd, Patton, Cameron etc. bloody hell
Jimmy O'Dea wrote:I don't think Petracca will be in the top 3 but I think he will be a fantatsic ball winning/goal kicking mid. Fantatsic power and acceleration over the first 15 and he just keeps on taking his game to the next level. Going to be a gun. His basketabll background is very evident.
McCartin has better hands than Boyd, Hogan etc and he splits packs/hurts people that get in his way. Given the poor form of other so called potential no 1 picks, he looks certain now to go number 1.
This is a very light on draft given what we have seen at the champs. Probably been spoilt over past 2 years given depth, not this year though.
I think recruiters will be looking at all the 19 year olds playing in the VFL. I expect a record number of VFL players to be drafted this year.
I wonder if GWS will be able to handle another number 1 pick that is a KPF. There is talk Carlton is calling for Silvagni to take over recruiting. If he goes their vision for stockpiling KPP talent might go. They may end up getting into Brayshaw as he first pick to get another mid. We could get him at the second pick potentially.
Surely GWS are not short sighted enough to draft another big key forward such as McCartin?
IF we were in GWS's shoes and had plenty of young talent on our list and plenty of key forwards, I'd either suggest we draft Sam Durdin as the best KPD in the draft or look at trading the #1 pick for a gun to imrpvoe the team immediately. eg Nat fyfe.
There's too much risk that they lose a Patton or a Boyd or even a McCartin in a few years when they are uncontracted and disgruntled b'cos they are not getting game - another team could shaft them at the trade trade or they simply quit the club.
They are set to have 22 first round draft picks on their list after this draft. It just isnt conceivable in 5 -7 yearstime to have say 22x 25yo players all in their prime - the salary cap cant burden it.
My gut feel is that GWS will take Wright given he's regarded as the best "talent" and is easily differentiated to other key forwards with his ability to play the 2nd ruck/forward role.
Here's hoping that we then land McCartin at pick # 2
I don't know what GWS backline consists of but maybe they are just covering their backside in regard to recruiting big KPF's.
There's been plenty of inconsistant forwards who have moved back with good success,and can swing forward to mix it up.
Some others may be right that they are stocking up to trade later or cover gohomes.
GWS work in draft and trade commodities. They select best avail and will continue to do so. They have top talent across the lines, surplus in all areas; key forwards, backs, mids. They don't have positional needs that dictate who they draft. If McCartin is best avail they'll take him. Have I said how much I hate GWS?
Jimmy O'Dea wrote:I don't think Petracca will be in the top 3 but I think he will be a fantatsic ball winning/goal kicking mid. Fantatsic power and acceleration over the first 15 and he just keeps on taking his game to the next level. Going to be a gun. His basketabll background is very evident.
McCartin has better hands than Boyd, Hogan etc and he splits packs/hurts people that get in his way. Given the poor form of other so called potential no 1 picks, he looks certain now to go number 1.
This is a very light on draft given what we have seen at the champs. Probably been spoilt over past 2 years given depth, not this year though.
I think recruiters will be looking at all the 19 year olds playing in the VFL. I expect a record number of VFL players to be drafted this year.
Wouldn't that be great if GWS added McCartin to Boyd, Patton, Cameron etc. bloody hell
I am concerned that GWS may try and swap Patton to us for our first pick. This is not what we need as Patton for me is a long way behind McCartin and Boyd.
Old Mate wrote:GWS work in draft and trade commodities. They select best avail and will continue to do so. They have top talent across the lines, surplus in all areas; key forwards, backs, mids. They don't have positional needs that dictate who they draft. If McCartin is best avail they'll take him. Have I said how much I hate GWS?
So are they are club thats wants to win games or just keep trading for lower picks. They need experienced very good footballers not guys that are traded before they get anywhere near their peak. I would be surprised if they dont try and trade their pick this year or if a potential top 5 picks wants to leave I think they are nearly certain to go for a proven player if they can.
Jimmy O'Dea wrote:
I am concerned that GWS may try and swap Patton to us for our first pick. This is not what we need as Patton for me is a long way behind McCartin and Boyd.
But Patton looks a mile ahead of what we currently have as that power forward ie Lee, Stanley & Maister. Would be very interesting to see what steak knives GWS would throw in, because if McCartin is the gun you say he is , there wouldn't be much point in a straight swap for Patton and our first pick.
“If you want the rainbow you gotta put up with rain” Dolly Parton
Old Mate wrote:GWS work in draft and trade commodities. They select best avail and will continue to do so. They have top talent across the lines, surplus in all areas; key forwards, backs, mids. They don't have positional needs that dictate who they draft. If McCartin is best avail they'll take him. Have I said how much I hate GWS?
So are they are club thats wants to win games or just keep trading for lower picks. They need experienced very good footballers not guys that are traded before they get anywhere near their peak. I would be surprised if they dont try and trade their pick this year or if a potential top 5 picks wants to leave I think they are nearly certain to go for a proven player if they can.
What they need and what they want are two separate issues. It's well known GWS have had issues attracting very good footballers since their inception when they poached Scully, Palmer and Ward. Gubby Allan said no clubs would deal players for the mini draft picks they had access to as well as declaring pick 1 (Tom Boyd) was on the table; 1. if a club was willing to part with that player; and 2. the player was willing to move to GWS. History tells us no deal for players could be struck hence why draft picks were the currency.
I'd jump at the chance to trade pick 2 for Patton. He's ridiculously agile and athletic for such a big, powerful unit and he's also a damn good footballer. Perfect age for us as well. One of the young talls in this draft might not start impacting games for 3-4 years, Patton looks like he'll be good for 30-40 goals next year.
