2014 List Management - Draft & Trade Discussion

[defacto]

Yep in twelve months Boyd will be playing somewhere else .
Jaksch , Orourke , Shiel & probably Plowman .

They are missing a 2nd Ruckman , we have 4 . Rhys buddy you are on soft ground.

Hope some are with Saints.

they have giles and mumford who are genuine ruckman. both pretty good.

what they are missing is a fwd who can ruck. theyre desperate for one and its obvious

sadly i dont think rhys will get the deal done and i dont think we will part with him, for the same reasons GWS are looking for one

if we lose rhys we have to bring one in. f***ed if i know if any are still available

[FQF]

Would you ..when 8 clubs are after you ? Guaranteed to play home in Victoria every 2nd week be paid double due to :
Scully , Mumford, Shaw , Ward , & Cameron in the future years.

It doesn't surprise me if Boyd would want to leave.

He was unanimously considered the very best talent in the draft, a ready to go top class AFL standard forward. And yet he's languishing away playing in some substandard NSW reserves league? He probably was playing a higher standard of footy last year, in fact, he certainly

The top neafl sides would beat a tac cup side by 10 to 20 goals.

Ive seen Boyd play live recently. Big unit. Moves well on the lead but still not a certainty to be a star. Does look move and play a bit like Tomahawk though...

Granted you've seen Boyd play recently and I haven't, but it seems strange that in the space of 6 months (in which development is meant to improve a player) he's gone from a virtual certainty to be a star by all draft watchers and talent spotters, to not a certainty. What's changed? This guy was one of the most certain number 1 draft picks of recent time.

[Old Mate]

Would you ..when 8 clubs are after you ? Guaranteed to play home in Victoria every 2nd week be paid double due to :
Scully , Mumford, Shaw , Ward , & Cameron in the future years.

It doesn't surprise me if Boyd would want to leave.

He was unanimously considered the very best talent in the draft, a ready to go top class AFL standard forward. And yet he's languishing away playing in some substandard NSW reserves league? He probably was playing a higher standard of footy last year, in fact, he certainly

The top neafl sides would beat a tac cup side by 10 to 20 goals.

Ive seen Boyd play live recently. Big unit. Moves well on the lead but still not a certainty to be a star. Does look move and play a bit like Tomahawk though...

Granted you've seen Boyd play recently and I haven't, but it seems strange that in the space of 6 months (in which development is meant to improve a player) he's gone from a virtual certainty to be a star by all draft watchers and talent spotters, to not a certainty. What's changed? This guy was one of the most certain number 1 draft picks of recent time.

Boyd is still highly rated but in an uncompromised draft he would not have been selected with pick 1, or even 2, and arguably pick 3. Martin and Hogan were the clear standouts and showed just why last year playing senior football and completely dominating their respective competitions. Hogan dominated AFL experienced full-backs in the VFL and Martin regularly collected 30+ touches in the QAFL. Daniher was rated at least equal but with inferior goal kicking however much more agile for a big man. I guess the point is, Boyd is more a pick 3-4 and not a pick 1. Still very highly rated though.

One thing about Boyd last year is he dominated the TAC, something no other forward is doing to his level this year, McCartin and Wright included. So far anyway. He was highly rated but not to the level of Jon Patton or Tom Hawkins as examples. As a junior, Patton was seen as a once in a generation key forward. He was not only dominating because of his sheer size and frame but showed a lot of agility and had/has a turning circle of a midfielder. I think we'll see Patton explode next year when he's well over his ACL trouble. He's already showed signs this year that the ACL injury won't hamper his career long-term. He's the guy I would be moving heaven and earth to move. Ahead of Cameron as well!

[borderbarry]

Maybe it is time to move on Paton. His value must be dimished after his knee reconstruction. If GWS are going to choose which to keep out of Paton and Boyd, which way wil they go? Paton is the St.Kilda supporter, I dont know who Boyd followed.

[Old Mate]

Maybe it is time to move on Paton. His value must be dimished after his knee reconstruction. If GWS are going to choose which to keep out of Paton and Boyd, which way wil they go? Paton is the St.Kilda supporter, I dont know who Boyd followed.

Patton was actually a Melbourne supporter. His parents St Kilda supporters. However Patton has said his favourite player growing up was Nick Riewoldt.

I think GWS will want all three of Patton, Cameron and Boyd.

Patton - Full forward
Cameron - Centre half forward
Boyd - Forward/second ruck

Saying that, I doubt they will be able to keep all three for much longer. The question needs to be asked. If Patton was offered 5 millon over 7 years by a Victorian club will he be able to say no? Return home...significant salary increase. GWS's salary cap is quickly filling up...

On the question, I would think GWS favour trading Boyd than Patton. Patton is the more talented and ready-to-go key forward. Both Patton and Boyd's value is a top 5 pick at the very least. That doesn't mean that's the return they get...But at the moment both are contracted so GWS have the upper hand. When their contract expires though....

[FQF]

That's a very big price to pay on a speculative player. True, very likely to succeed, but at the end of the day he isn't proven.

What did Collingwood offer Grundy at the end of last year? That would probably be around the mark.

[Old Mate]

That's a very big price to pay on a speculative player. True, very likely to succeed, but at the end of the day he isn't proven.

What did Collingwood offer Grundy at the end of last year? That would probably be around the mark.

Grundy is a year younger and signed on at his current club. A bit different to a player being poached from another club. Further to that, Patton will be 22 and not far from 23 when his contract expires at the end of next year.

When you consider Patton's age, talent and position he plays, 700k a year on a long-term deal is not far off the mark. Robbo reported Cameron has knocked back 6 million over 7 years from GWS to extend his contract...Jack Martin recently signed on for 6 years...Buddy 9.

[Scollop]

Yep in twelve months Boyd will be playing somewhere else .
Jaksch , Orourke , Shiel & probably Plowman .

They are missing a 2nd Ruckman , we have 4 . Rhys buddy you are on soft ground.

Hope some are with Saints.

they have giles and mumford who are genuine ruckman. both pretty good.

what they are missing is a fwd who can ruck. theyre desperate for one and its obvious

sadly i dont think rhys will get the deal done and i dont think we will part with him, for the same reasons GWS are looking for one

if we lose rhys we have to bring one in. f***ed if i know if any are still available

What about Rhys to the Western Bulldogs as a back up ruck/tall forward for them. Granted we won't get much in return but 2 things could happen if the club starts throwing his name around as a trade option.

Firstly Rhys might understand that he is expendable and therefor shows more effort for us and maybe cements a spot by years end ( here's hoping) and secondly we might get a nibble from other clubs

[Old Mate]

Port made enquiries about Stanley last year. There may be an opportunity to get a Tom Clurey or Jon Butcher if Port's interest is still there.

[Con Gorozidis]

Hopefully Stanley has a good game this week - like Savage against us last year

[FQF]

I don't think the problem with Stanley is his effort. It's his application and natural footy ability that's holding him back.

Richo said this week that Stanley is working incredibly hard, and doing everything possible to improve his form. Stanley absolutely knows that he is expendable, and that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he could be delisted in the near future if he continues to offer nothing. When your job, livelihood and pride are on the line, you can be sure that he is trying his best.

[plugger66]

Would you ..when 8 clubs are after you ? Guaranteed to play home in Victoria every 2nd week be paid double due to :
Scully , Mumford, Shaw , Ward , & Cameron in the future years.

It doesn't surprise me if Boyd would want to leave.

He was unanimously considered the very best talent in the draft, a ready to go top class AFL standard forward. And yet he's languishing away playing in some substandard NSW reserves league? He probably was playing a higher standard of footy last year, in fact, he certainly

The top neafl sides would beat a tac cup side by 10 to 20 goals.

Ive seen Boyd play live recently. Big unit. Moves well on the lead but still not a certainty to be a star. Does look move and play a bit like Tomahawk though...

Granted you've seen Boyd play recently and I haven't, but it seems strange that in the space of 6 months (in which development is meant to improve a player) he's gone from a virtual certainty to be a star by all draft watchers and talent spotters, to not a certainty. What's changed? This guy was one of the most certain number 1 draft picks of recent time.

Boyd is still highly rated but in an uncompromised draft he would not have been selected with pick 1, or even 2, and arguably pick 3. Martin and Hogan were the clear standouts and showed just why last year playing senior football and completely dominating their respective competitions. Hogan dominated AFL experienced full-backs in the VFL and Martin regularly collected 30+ touches in the QAFL. Daniher was rated at least equal but with inferior goal kicking however much more agile for a big man. I guess the point is, Boyd is more a pick 3-4 and not a pick 1. Still very highly rated though.

One thing about Boyd last year is he dominated the TAC, something no other forward is doing to his level this year, McCartin and Wright included. So far anyway. He was highly rated but not to the level of Jon Patton or Tom Hawkins as examples. As a junior, Patton was seen as a once in a generation key forward. He was not only dominating because of his sheer size and frame but showed a lot of agility and had/has a turning circle of a midfielder. I think we'll see Patton explode next year when he's well over his ACL trouble. He's already showed signs this year that the ACL injury won't hamper his career long-term. He's the guy I would be moving heaven and earth to move. Ahead of Cameron as well!

I think we can only go on what we have seen in AFL footy to decide who is the better player and cameron would be miles ahaead of patton at this stage. Looking at how both move I reckon Cameron is the modern day forward and to me Patton seems a bit like the past. I know its far to early to decide but i certainly would even slightly entertain pick 1, 2 or 3 on him and i still say GWS will not really want picks anymore anyway. Its time for them to get players.

[Cairnsman]

I don't think the problem with Stanley is his effort. It's his application and natural footy ability that's holding him back.

Richo said this week that Stanley is working incredibly hard, and doing everything possible to improve his form. Stanley absolutely knows that he is expendable, and that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he could be delisted in the near future if he continues to offer nothing. When your job, livelihood and pride are on the line, you can be sure that he is trying his best.

From all reports he is the fittest and strongest he's been, he just needs to know he can damage physically. If you use Hawkins as an example he didn't really come good until the 2011 finals series. He ripped apart a couple of games physically, contested marks, crashing packs and all of that, never looked back. He's got the tools, just needs to get head right IMO, I really, really hope he makes it, we need him to, badly.

[Old Mate]

Would you ..when 8 clubs are after you ? Guaranteed to play home in Victoria every 2nd week be paid double due to :
Scully , Mumford, Shaw , Ward , & Cameron in the future years.

It doesn't surprise me if Boyd would want to leave.

He was unanimously considered the very best talent in the draft, a ready to go top class AFL standard forward. And yet he's languishing away playing in some substandard NSW reserves league? He probably was playing a higher standard of footy last year, in fact, he certainly

The top neafl sides would beat a tac cup side by 10 to 20 goals.

Ive seen Boyd play live recently. Big unit. Moves well on the lead but still not a certainty to be a star. Does look move and play a bit like Tomahawk though...

Granted you've seen Boyd play recently and I haven't, but it seems strange that in the space of 6 months (in which development is meant to improve a player) he's gone from a virtual certainty to be a star by all draft watchers and talent spotters, to not a certainty. What's changed? This guy was one of the most certain number 1 draft picks of recent time.

Boyd is still highly rated but in an uncompromised draft he would not have been selected with pick 1, or even 2, and arguably pick 3. Martin and Hogan were the clear standouts and showed just why last year playing senior football and completely dominating their respective competitions. Hogan dominated AFL experienced full-backs in the VFL and Martin regularly collected 30+ touches in the QAFL. Daniher was rated at least equal but with inferior goal kicking however much more agile for a big man. I guess the point is, Boyd is more a pick 3-4 and not a pick 1. Still very highly rated though.

One thing about Boyd last year is he dominated the TAC, something no other forward is doing to his level this year, McCartin and Wright included. So far anyway. He was highly rated but not to the level of Jon Patton or Tom Hawkins as examples. As a junior, Patton was seen as a once in a generation key forward. He was not only dominating because of his sheer size and frame but showed a lot of agility and had/has a turning circle of a midfielder. I think we'll see Patton explode next year when he's well over his ACL trouble. He's already showed signs this year that the ACL injury won't hamper his career long-term. He's the guy I would be moving heaven and earth to move. Ahead of Cameron as well!

I think we can only go on what we have seen in AFL footy to decide who is the better player and cameron would be miles ahaead of patton at this stage. Looking at how both move I reckon Cameron is the modern day forward and to me Patton seems a bit like the past. I know its far to early to decide but i certainly would even slightly entertain pick 1, 2 or 3 on him and i still say GWS will not really want picks anymore anyway. Its time for them to get players.

We can go off many things, plugger. It's not always black and white and I'm more than happy to go early and put my opinion on the line.

A like Patton's game more than Cameron's. Cameron had a free ride last year and is now getting the attention he deserves. Credit to him. Patton is coming off an ACL injury and working into some good form.

Patton is a multi-facet forward and not an old school dinosaur like the past, as you said. He played second ruck on the weekend and has had plenty of success playing further up the ground at junior level and some at AFL level.

What mostly intrigues me about Patton is his ability to stand in a pack and mark a footy. His frame and strength for a 20 year old is unheard of and dare I say it, Lockett like. He took a couple of ripping marks where he stood tall with 4-5 players around him jumping up and down and just clunked the mark. He's also very mobile for a big man. His lateral movement is elite for his size.

At this point in their careers, Cameron is ahead of Patton but there's a few contributing factors, including the injury I spoke of and the point in their development they are both at. I'll watch with interest how their careers pan out but happy to say in 10 years time Patton is the better player and has had the better career.

[Old Mate]

I don't think the problem with Stanley is his effort. It's his application and natural footy ability that's holding him back.

Richo said this week that Stanley is working incredibly hard, and doing everything possible to improve his form. Stanley absolutely knows that he is expendable, and that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he could be delisted in the near future if he continues to offer nothing. When your job, livelihood and pride are on the line, you can be sure that he is trying his best.

Stanley is not a footballer. He doesn't think like a footballer or perform like a footballer. His leading patterns, work off the ball, under the ball is poor. He's an athlete and unfortunately will never be the player we've all hoped for. Best case scenario, he's turned into a permanent ruckman that doesn't need a lot of footy nous and just needs to be able to jump high. A forward he is not. Trade bait.

[plugger66]

I don't think the problem with Stanley is his effort. It's his application and natural footy ability that's holding him back.

Richo said this week that Stanley is working incredibly hard, and doing everything possible to improve his form. Stanley absolutely knows that he is expendable, and that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he could be delisted in the near future if he continues to offer nothing. When your job, livelihood and pride are on the line, you can be sure that he is trying his best.

Stanley is not a footballer. He doesn't think like a footballer or perform like a footballer. His leading patterns, work off the ball, under the ball is poor. He's an athlete and unfortunately will never be the player we've all hoped for. Best case scenario, he's turned into a permanent ruckman that doesn't need a lot of footy nous and just needs to be able to jump high. A forward he is not. Trade bait.

Based on what you said then how is he trade bait. What you said is right IMO but because of that the choices are simple. He stays or is delisted. And if he stays he has to be a forward for us. the last thing we need is another ruckman. I think we have one to many when Hickey returns as neither of them look like they can mark the bloody ball well enough to be a forward ruckman. Still disagree on patton but its going to be a long wait for one of us to be proven right.

[Old Mate]

I don't think the problem with Stanley is his effort. It's his application and natural footy ability that's holding him back.

Richo said this week that Stanley is working incredibly hard, and doing everything possible to improve his form. Stanley absolutely knows that he is expendable, and that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he could be delisted in the near future if he continues to offer nothing. When your job, livelihood and pride are on the line, you can be sure that he is trying his best.

Stanley is not a footballer. He doesn't think like a footballer or perform like a footballer. His leading patterns, work off the ball, under the ball is poor. He's an athlete and unfortunately will never be the player we've all hoped for. Best case scenario, he's turned into a permanent ruckman that doesn't need a lot of footy nous and just needs to be able to jump high. A forward he is not. Trade bait.

Based on what you said then how is he trade bait. What you said is right IMO but because of that the choices are simple. He stays or is delisted. And if he stays he has to be a forward for us. the last thing we need is another ruckman. I think we have one to many when Hickey returns as neither of them look like they can mark the bloody ball well enough to be a forward ruckman. Still disagree on patton but its going to be a long wait for one of us to be proven right.

Opinions differ. My opinion of Stanley being trade bait does not mean that's the industries opinion. There will be interest for a 24 year old and athletic tall player. How much interest and what return would we get? Well, if Richmond gave up pick 28 for Hampson you never know. Personally as a suitor club I wouldn't invest in Stanley but that doesn't correlate with the trade value I would have on him. He would likely net us a pick between 30-40, IMO. However that's pretty much useless to us so I favour getting a return of a young player with some talent.

[borderbarry]

On the thread Uncontracted Players posted by Yoda on Big Footy, the following players are out of contract at this stage:=

Carlton, Troy Menzel.
Fremantle, Nat Fyfe.
G.W.S. Lachlan Plowman, Kristian Jacksch, Jon O'Rourke,
Port Adelaide, Tom Clurey.
West Coast. Andrew Gaff.

All young, all Victorians. Should have a go at some of them.

[dragit]

On the thread Uncontracted Players posted by Yoda on Big Footy, the following players are out of contract at this stage:=

Carlton, Troy Menzel.
Fremantle, Nat Fyfe.
G.W.S. Lachlan Plowman, Kristian Jacksch, Jon O'Rourke,
Port Adelaide, Tom Clurey.
West Coast. Andrew Gaff.

All young, all Victorians. Should have a go at some of them.

Fyfe's from WA... But I'll take the lot thanks Barry!

Pretty sure wines is yet to recommit too.

[Old Mate]

On the thread Uncontracted Players posted by Yoda on Big Footy, the following players are out of contract at this stage:=

Carlton, Troy Menzel.
Fremantle, Nat Fyfe.
G.W.S. Lachlan Plowman, Kristian Jacksch, Jon O'Rourke,
Port Adelaide, Tom Clurey.
West Coast. Andrew Gaff.

All young, all Victorians. Should have a go at some of them.

Fyfe's from WA... But I'll take the lot thanks Barry!

Pretty sure wines is yet to recommit too.

Tom Clurey is the one that intrigues me. Hard running, tall defender, capable of taking a key post. I was dead keen to get him in the 2012 draft but alas we chose Spencer White instead! Clurey grew up a Saints supporter as well. He could be the guy we look to swap Stanley for? win/win IMO.

[lloyd21]

G.W.S. Lachlan Plowman, Kristian Jacksch, Jon O'Rourke, James Stewart ... 198 cm forward
Port Adelaide, Tom Clurey.
West Coast. Andrew Gaff.


Doubt Saints will deal with West Coast after last fiasco.

Point I was meaning is the position of forward pocket Ruckman is the last position contenders fill.
Hence why most teams building will go for key position players & midfielders without exception and will even have midfielders
playing half back & half forward .
Saints need at least 6 more midfielders.
Could be wrong but really doubt they would trade Armitage for another mid when they need a lot more quality there
Hence if you are looking at long rebuild what do saints have that is trade material think Rhys is in dangerous territory given they have drafted & rookied recently ruckmen last 2 drafts.

[Con Gorozidis]

We should definitely target another GWS player this year and then again the following year...

Just for some perspective - on key fwds- to keep us from obsessing over McCartin, Wright and Goddard.

Taylor Walker
Aged 24 years
Height 192cm
Weight 100kg
Drafted from Broken Hill NSW, Pick #75
AFL Games 72
AFL Goals 169

[plugger66]

We should definitely target another GWS player this year and then again the following year...

Just for some perspective - on key fwds- to keep us from obsessing over McCartin, Wright and Goddard.

Taylor Walker
Aged 24 years
Height 192cm
Weight 100kg
Drafted from Broken Hill NSW, Pick #75
AFL Games 72
AFL Goals 169

I dont get your point but if it was where he was taken there was a reason. he was a zone pick.

[WinnersOnly]

.[/quote]

Tom Clurey is the one that intrigues me. Hard running, tall defender, capable of taking a key post. I was dead keen to get him in the 2012 draft but alas we chose Spencer White instead! Clurey grew up a Saints supporter as well. He could be the guy we look to swap Stanley for? win/win IMO.[/quote]

The Saints recruitment team were keen on Clurey so there could be a chance of such a trade. Its a shame White is not more advanced as I think they see him initially playing the same role as Stanley...

[Con Gorozidis]

I dont get your point but if it was where he was taken there was a reason. he was a zone pick.

I didnt actually know that (zone pick).

But my main points are:

1. There is more to recruitment than the TAC cup and Victorian Under 18 sides.
2. Dont get too hung up on height for its own sake - 192cm is enough for a key fwd if the bloke is a good powerful player.