NEW Asst Coach !!

[dragit]

Just hoping we don't get the balance wrong.

Now this is funny… when have we ever got the balance right?

great post legendary btw…

[The OtherThommo]

So it all comes back to the old PR chestnut then by the sounds of things Tot.

Not quite, Sobraz. The "old PR chestnut" is merely a bonus, a side benefit, that we'd be crazy not to spruik. It's not "all" it comes back to, by any means.

I like the fact it was Richardson who made the call to tell her she'd got the gig. Richardson's been around for donkey's ages. He'd probably understand the pros and cons of the assistant/development coaches model better than most. What's more, I doubt he would have just gone along with the appointment, if he didn't think she could do the job. I don't see him as a "yes" man, just for short term expediency's sake.

[The OtherThommo]

Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.

She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.

Sir, I hope you were born prior to 1940, because nothing else could explain the unconscious bias and ignorance you have demonstrated in your comments on this topic.

To ask whether it is appropriate for a woman to be present in the St Kilda changing rooms is a baseless and ridiculous question. I have reported your post to the moderators.

At every football club from the Under 10's to AFL level, women are currently present in the change rooms as physiotherapists, doctors, trainers, board members, parents and supporters. Have you been inside the change rooms of a sporting club since 1950?

To label her appointment as token is to ignore her experience as a player and coach, the outstanding personal recommendations given by Gary Ayres and Stan Alves and the fact that she participated in two interviews. You are also making accusations against the club that they are not acting in the interests of their players by appointing the best person available to help them.

Has far north Queensland become so isolated in its cultural and social attitudes from the rest of this country that it is impossible to accept that a woman can have the ability, the experience, the wisdom and the track record to succeed as a coach at an AFL club?

We have had several senior coaches (Neil Craig, Wayne Brittain, Brendan McCartney and Brendan Bolton) and other assistants (our own Danny Sexton is one) who didn't play AFL at the highest level. And yet they all obtained their positions based on merit. Danny Sexton has been retained and promoted by three different senior coaches. Do you suggest that this was done based on something other than merit? If not, then your argument fails.

If you are so convinced that the skills required to succeed in football are found in the culture of the "men's club", please read what Gary Ayres and Stan Alves (I don't have to remind you of their credentials) have to say about Peta Searle:

Ayres:
"I believe she could knock over, without any problem whatsoever, a development coaching role within any AFL club.
Without a second’s hesitation, Ayres said there were many times when Searle cut through with young footballers in a manner he could not. “Yes, definitely. Through her approach, her communication and her manner.”
The former head coach of Geelong and Adelaide said he would recruit, or recommend, Searle to any club at any level of competition in the game."

Alves:
"At the AFL’s most recent annual national coaching conference in January, former St Kilda coach Stan Alves was blown away by Searle’s presentation on defence. “If she wasn’t the best, she was equal best to anyone who presented at the conference,” Alves said.
“I felt as if I was a player being coached. I came away from the whole thing thinking, ‘This girl can go the next step. She can be the groundbreaker.’"

Cogently and coherently presented, Leg.

In support I offer this, from Clarkson, in Feb this year and support from an op-ed;

”Hirdy (James Hird) needs accreditation to coach under nines but not an AFL footy team. It really concerns me that the game doesn’t protect itself in the way, say, the teaching industry does,” he told Fairfax Media.

"While Clarkson did use Essendon as the example, his message was for the whole competition – football coaches need better education."

"Coaches are fundamentally teachers. When you consider the steps required to become a school teacher, it should be an essential requirement of football that coaches go through a similar process."

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/02/20/th ... g-courses/

[Cairnsman]

Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.

She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.

Sir, I hope you were born prior to 1940, because nothing else could explain the unconscious bias and ignorance you have demonstrated in your comments on this topic.

To ask whether it is appropriate for a woman to be present in the St Kilda changing rooms is a baseless and ridiculous question. I have reported your post to the moderators.

At every football club from the Under 10's to AFL level, women are currently present in the change rooms as physiotherapists, doctors, trainers, board members, parents and supporters. Have you been inside the change rooms of a sporting club since 1950?

To label her appointment as token is to ignore her experience as a player and coach, the outstanding personal recommendations given by Gary Ayres and Stan Alves and the fact that she participated in two interviews. You are also making accusations against the club that they are not acting in the interests of their players by appointing the best person available to help them.

Has far north Queensland become so isolated in its cultural and social attitudes from the rest of this country that it is impossible to accept that a woman can have the ability, the experience, the wisdom and the track record to succeed as a coach at an AFL club?

We have had several senior coaches (Neil Craig, Wayne Brittain, Brendan McCartney and Brendan Bolton) and other assistants (our own Danny Sexton is one) who didn't play AFL at the highest level. And yet they all obtained their positions based on merit. Danny Sexton has been retained and promoted by three different senior coaches. Do you suggest that this was done based on something other than merit? If not, then your argument fails.

If you are so convinced that the skills required to succeed in football are found in the culture of the "men's club", please read what Gary Ayres and Stan Alves (I don't have to remind you of their credentials) have to say about Peta Searle:

Ayres:
"I believe she could knock over, without any problem whatsoever, a development coaching role within any AFL club.
Without a second’s hesitation, Ayres said there were many times when Searle cut through with young footballers in a manner he could not. “Yes, definitely. Through her approach, her communication and her manner.”
The former head coach of Geelong and Adelaide said he would recruit, or recommend, Searle to any club at any level of competition in the game."

Alves:
"At the AFL’s most recent annual national coaching conference in January, former St Kilda coach Stan Alves was blown away by Searle’s presentation on defence. “If she wasn’t the best, she was equal best to anyone who presented at the conference,” Alves said.
“I felt as if I was a player being coached. I came away from the whole thing thinking, ‘This girl can go the next step. She can be the groundbreaker.’"

Sorry I didn't get much past sir, anything that starts of that condescending bores me.

[Cairnsman]

Just hoping we don't get the balance wrong.

Now this is funny… when have we ever got the balance right?

great post legendary btw…

Well that is a good point. I hope we aren't over correcting. We have had a high staff turn over in the past 2 years and from my experience that can be catastrophic in an organisation that is already struggling. I really hope we get it right. I'm not hoping we get it wrong I can assure you of that. I can't say if Legendary's post was great, maybe the ending was, the beginning was less interesting than a boring golden book.

[borderbarry]

i am glad we have picked her up. I am sure it was just a matter of time and another club would have.

[dragit]

Just hoping we don't get the balance wrong.

Now this is funny… when have we ever got the balance right?

great post legendary btw…

Well that is a good point. I hope we aren't over correcting. We have had a high staff turn over in the past 2 years and from my experience that can be catastrophic in an organisation that is already struggling. I really hope we get it right. I'm not hoping we get it wrong I can assure you of that. I can't say if Legendary's post was great, maybe the ending was, the beginning was less interesting than a boring golden book.

This is an additional position, not a turn-over…

There seems to be a lot more scrutiny on her background and personal life than similar previous appointments.

Did everyone go nuts when Sexton was appointed?

[Legendary]

Sorry I didn't get much past sir, anything that starts of that condescending bores me.

If a coherent reply to your comments bores you, will you read 2 sentences?

Your posts were ignorant, sexist, biased and demonstrated an attitude that belongs in the 1950's.

You made baseless allegations and inferences about Peta, our club and the culture of AFL football without any respect for women or their ability.

[The OtherThommo]

In the interests of countering the odd bit of generalising around gender, I offer a bit of generalising around gender;

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/12/03 ... titasking/

Of course, there is research with differing conclusions. Plus, reading the article, I reckon they've gone the wrong way by putting the emphasis on "multi-tasking", by including it in the headline. Women tending to be more analytical, intuitive and collaborative is more noteworthy, I reckon.

Multilateral, as opposed to unilateral, makes more sense to me.

"Multi-tasking" 1st came out of the IT industry, in recognition of advances in chip technology, when chips were developed that could do more than one processing task at a time. I don't necessarily equate all thinking in the human brain with performing specific tasks (as happens in a computer chip).

[Cairnsman]

Sorry I didn't get much past sir, anything that starts of that condescending bores me.

If a coherent reply to your comments bores you, will you read 2 sentences?

Your posts were ignorant, sexist, biased and demonstrated an attitude that belongs in the 1950's.

You made baseless allegations and inferences about Peta, our club and the culture of AFL football without any respect for women or their ability.

Sir,

Seeing as though you are carrying on like a pork chop it occurred to me that your post might be worth reading...how wrong I was.

BTW I have reported you for being racist.

[plugger66]

I reported both of you for reported each other for silly little things. I also reported Steele Sidebottom.

[Cairnsman]

I reported both of you for reported each other for silly little things. I also reported Steele Sidebottom.

He started it!

[Dave McNamara]

Surely none of this is relevant unless they're announcing today that she's replacing Richo

Doc, that's the bleedin' obvious isn't it? However, a few seemed to have missed this.

Glad that we have you to point out the bleedin' obvious when necessay.

Voss, Ratten, Primus, Watson etc etc… all champions on the playing field, didn't help them coach.

I wouldn't call Neil Craig's career a failure by any means… 177 games at a similar WIN/Loss to Sheedy.

All true and valid, Dragit. But, given she's joining the ranks as a development coach, I reckon that's the right job, from a perspective of her background and to keep her performance assessment from being tied to win/loss ratios. The club management will be able to assess her away from the extra special scrutiny of the chattering classes who will look for reasons why her gender is antithetical to football coaching success.

If she performs up to the expectations of those who have engaged her services in a development role, then they and she can have increased confidence she can go forward, and withstand that "extra" scrutiny.

I reckon it's a terrific appointment. Let's face it, lots of spruiking about diversity means jot if you don't actually do some of it.

Just as an aside, and from the dregs of my memory, but I seem to recall the person who took the strongest stand at E'dope, about the jabfest, was a woman employed in their fitness and conditioning staff. Again from memory, I also seem to recall she either got the bullet for her protest, or quit in disgust. Maybe they should have listened to her, instead of the blind allegiance to the boys' club culture.

While there could well be some element of pleasing the AFL heirarchy with such an appointment, I actually enjoy a bit of differentiation. And, let's face it, one of the best routes out of our current malaise is to differentiate ourselves. If this move enables the AFL to hold us up as a good example, then great.

I hope she does bring a broader perspective to our player development, 'cos it can only help. And, I hope she gets to the chance to be both a development and developing coach.

Great point Dragstar.

Great follow up ToT... the big picture... which like the bleedin' obvious, can all too often be lost.

Meh, don't get the fuss.

Solid appointment, great references.

Go saints!

That says it all K!

[3rd generation saint]

Can see nothing but positives with this appointment, may very well be what closes a big sponsorship deal.

I really hope that didnt cross anyones mind at the club otherwise we have some issues. I have no problem with the appointment if she is the best person for the job but being an assistant coach at St kevins this year and being backline coach at Port the previous year doesnt sound like a person who is ready for AFL footy. Must have interviewed very well.

From what I've heard and read about her, she seems very qualified and got the job on merit. The fact that we employed a woman to a male dominated role can only be great PR for the club and hence widen potential suitors for sponsorship.
It would be interesting if we get a positive spin from Caro, (not that it matters) but it will definitely put us on the back and front page of the papers for good reasons, not bad reasons.
If she matches her potential and excels at the job, will open the door for many and bring us more success both on and off the field.

[Jacks Back]

Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.

She didn't play at AFL level and she has had minimal experience at AFL level and in particular under very experienced coaches within a very good system so I would guess there were better choices on that score. I think it is probably token and I think our weak financial situation probably doesn't allow us to pick the very best also.

Sir, I hope you were born prior to 1940, because nothing else could explain the unconscious bias and ignorance you have demonstrated in your comments on this topic.

To ask whether it is appropriate for a woman to be present in the St Kilda changing rooms is a baseless and ridiculous question. I have reported your post to the moderators.

At every football club from the Under 10's to AFL level, women are currently present in the change rooms as physiotherapists, doctors, trainers, board members, parents and supporters. Have you been inside the change rooms of a sporting club since 1950?

To label her appointment as token is to ignore her experience as a player and coach, the outstanding personal recommendations given by Gary Ayres and Stan Alves and the fact that she participated in two interviews. You are also making accusations against the club that they are not acting in the interests of their players by appointing the best person available to help them.

Has far north Queensland become so isolated in its cultural and social attitudes from the rest of this country that it is impossible to accept that a woman can have the ability, the experience, the wisdom and the track record to succeed as a coach at an AFL club?

We have had several senior coaches (Neil Craig, Wayne Brittain, Brendan McCartney and Brendan Bolton) and other assistants (our own Danny Sexton is one) who didn't play AFL at the highest level. And yet they all obtained their positions based on merit. Danny Sexton has been retained and promoted by three different senior coaches. Do you suggest that this was done based on something other than merit? If not, then your argument fails.

If you are so convinced that the skills required to succeed in football are found in the culture of the "men's club", please read what Gary Ayres and Stan Alves (I don't have to remind you of their credentials) have to say about Peta Searle:

Ayres:
"I believe she could knock over, without any problem whatsoever, a development coaching role within any AFL club.
Without a second’s hesitation, Ayres said there were many times when Searle cut through with young footballers in a manner he could not. “Yes, definitely. Through her approach, her communication and her manner.”
The former head coach of Geelong and Adelaide said he would recruit, or recommend, Searle to any club at any level of competition in the game."

Alves:
"At the AFL’s most recent annual national coaching conference in January, former St Kilda coach Stan Alves was blown away by Searle’s presentation on defence. “If she wasn’t the best, she was equal best to anyone who presented at the conference,” Alves said.
“I felt as if I was a player being coached. I came away from the whole thing thinking, ‘This girl can go the next step. She can be the groundbreaker.’"

Sorry I didn't get much past sir, anything that starts of that condescending bores me.

What a condescending response by Cairnsman, well argued.

That was an excellent post Legendary.

[Cairnsman]

It's got me stuffed why people think that employing a women is going to lead sponsors to our door. Sponsors want exposure and the only way we can improve that is by winning and getting better time slots and more of them. Agree that Peta's engagement is a good PR opportunity, it is getting a modest run on the current 24hrs news cycle but I am sure even Peta will be keen to get on with the job and appear in the media based on her achievements and not her gender. As I keep saying I am hoping it is a good appointment, why wouldn't I.

[3rd generation saint]

It's got me stuffed why people think that employing a women is going to lead sponsors to our door. Sponsors want exposure and the only way we can improve that is by winning and getting better time slots and more of them. Agree that Peta's engagement is a good PR opportunity.

Sponsors also like good publicity, and this gives us plenty. GWS have great sponsors and they have won a total of 6 games in 3 seasons so far.

[Cairnsman]

It's got me stuffed why people think that employing a women is going to lead sponsors to our door. Sponsors want exposure and the only way we can improve that is by winning and getting better time slots and more of them. Agree that Peta's engagement is a good PR opportunity.

Sponsors also like good publicity, and this gives us plenty. GWS have great sponsors and they have won a total of 6 games in 3 seasons so far.

Plenty? I doubt it very much. She will bring some exposure but not the pot of gold you are suggesting. GWS have great sponsors because they are GWS and they are and will be guaranteed much more exposure than us.

[saintspremiers]

Talking of presentations - wasn't that what got Scotty Watters over the line?

Just saw on Saints FB a person said she was a nazi at school as a teacher. Exactly what we need - a tough nut!

[The OtherThommo]

Talking of presentations - wasn't that what got Scotty Watters over the line?

Ah, but, SP, Richo went through the same process as Watters, at the same time, so he'd be well prepared to spot any Mr Ripley style presentations from Ms Searle, I'm sure.

[Zed]

One of the hardest parts to get right in modern footy is the ability to communicate with each individual player. It takes a lot of different styles. The days of the one size fits all message are gone. If Peta can bring out the best in just one youngster who may not as yet have developed to his full potential then she will have contributed to the greater good.

Speaking from personal experience I have a 14 year old son who is currently dominating in his under 15 club and school footy. He is a real hard nut on the ground and his team mates always look to him for that extra grunt when its required. Yet away from the ground and away from prying eyes of the 'public', he loves to open up to his mum. He loves to boast to me about how many marks he is going to take or goals he is going to kick, but whenever I feel the need to make a suggestion on things to work on he often gets defensive. Yet the same message delivered by his mother is usually well received. My wife and I frequently discuss which messages are best delivered by her and which by me. He isn't a 'mummys boy' - its about communication styles. Im sure out of the group of 18 year old boys we drafted this year, and the group we draft next year, Peta's style will resonate with some of them.

She seems to have done a great footy apprenticeship. As for the fact that she never played AFL that is completely irrelevant. The game evolves and develops so quickly that once you are out of the game for more than 3 or 4 years, it no longer is played the same way it was. It certainly isnt played the same way today as it was when Alaister Clarkson or John Longmire were playing.

[Sainternist]

Would the Australian Womens Netball Team be ok with a male coach roaming through the change rooms. That's one problem I can see. Worth the experiment though if our budget doesn't allow us to employ the best available coaches at AFL level. I hope she succeeds.

Probably many female trainers involved in AFL teams. Certainly is with local footy and its no issue. Im more worried that she has the right credentials and it isnt just a token appointment. Backs coach at Port 2 years ago. is that really enough?

Sounds like she has done everything possible to earn a chance as an assistant coach at AFL level.

At the end of the 1998 season we appointed Tim Watson as SENIOR COACH based purely on his playing career. He had absolutely no prior AFL (let alone Australian Rules Football) coaching experience. The only thing he coached was Jobe's basketball team. Now that was a token appointment.

[saintbrat]

[Griggsy]

Borrowing your quotes for my argument on the bigfooty thread legendary, I'm pretty much having the same argument there haha. You are spot on

[saintbrat]

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-06-0 ... arle-story