Reflecting on our Preseason thoughts, we're doing ok

[skeptic]

Preseason, many forumites thought we were clearly a bottom 4 team... some even said potential wood and spooners.

We had:
- An untried coach
- Heaps of new/'ish youngtsers
- A reasonable number of players on our list for more than 3 seasons that we were unsure of
- Were over reliant on aging stars
- A number of more senior players that had stagnated in their development
- Mounting injuries
- Heaps of turnover
- An image of being divided and chaotic off-field

Many considered that if a few youngtsers came on and our core better players Gilbert, Fisher etc stepped up we had the potential to at least push for the 8 at times though pbly not make it but we also knew that if we had injuries... we would fall away pretty quickly as we simply don't have the development

When I think back to then, I try to remember the the things that as a supporter base, we thought would be reasonable achievements. To the best of my recollection, those things are as follows:

- We wanted a sense from the coach that he is cool and calm, well liked at the club, willing to work with people, that he is focused on developing talent and teaching youngsters how to play, is developing a gameplan/has a direction for the club.

IMO, this has been achieved. Certainly, the team seems harmonious, no reports of infighting, players seem happy, no off field scandals. We've played a large number of new players this season, largely rewarded or demoted on form, guys like Armo and Gilbert that had stagnated looked better before injuries, others brought their game forward, and all in all, before we were hit by injuries... we looked ok.

- We wanted to develop youth.

Dunstan, Billing, Curren, Newnes, Wright, Saunders, Eli, Webster, Bruce, + Weller and Acres to a lesser degree have all showed a high degree of potential and improvement

- We wanted to be in a good position to make calls on some players that have been on our list or in the system for a few seasons, or under-developed etc
Maister was given a decent go and looks cooked. Savage is new and has time but for now at least has to go back to the drawing board. TDL hasn't looked even close to breaking in.

Alternatively Stanley at this stage looks to have done enough for another season, Hickey is currently our number ruck and looking good, Shenton looks like he'll make the main list, Delaney and Bruce look like starting 22. Longer has potential but is raw...

Siposs and Milera have earned their spots and are making their pitches now, Simpkin and Ross have had a taste and are still fighting whilst Dunnell is pushing for opportunity

So you have pros and cons. Then you have guys like Markworth, Lee, White, Murdoch, Pierce etc who many predicted would start slow and have the second half of the season to keep the process going.

- We wanted our veterans to be respected, earn their spots, and where appropriate be exited gracefully

Riewoldt, Dempster, Hayes, Monty and Ray have by and large been our best players and justified their positions yet again. Jones, Gwilt, and Schneider have looked good at times but look more vulnerable... Fisher probably won't make it back.

- Reignate the careers of some players that stagnated.
Before injury, Gilbert looked like the player we all once new and loved. Armitage ditto... looked good. Stanley again has improved, Ray was under fire but has silenced the critics for now. Roberton and Lee seem to have fallen away.

- Injuries...

well you can't win them all. Seems to be a few foot injuries at the moment. Steven made it back which was good. Schnieder's on the park too. Fisher was disappointing, can't do much about Wright and Eli, whilst losing Gilbo really hurt.

Need to look at this. I do worry that we're not resting players enough... Gilbo came back really quickly, by all reports Steven's foot is sore again, Hickey seemed proppy for 2-3 weeks before going down and Riewoldt looks like the walking wounded.

- Improve off-field.

Membership was as expected. The new president looks good, love the new add, lots of club offers and e-mails has been nice, exciting news about Moorabbin and the Junction oval, no scandals etc

Looking at our list in a little more detail...

We look good for ruckman... Hickey improved quite, is clearly currently our no 1 and seems at least competitive against more seasoned opponents. Stanley looks decent as a relieving ruck and alternating KPP - needs to learn to add more presence to his game. Longer is a tap beast and has lots of potential... could be the best of them all but is physically not ready. Pierce is too hard to judge atm... will pbly get another year b4 a call is made.

Forward line: Needs a bit of work. Riewoldt is clearly our best by a long way to the point that it is not a positive. He needs another player to take the heat off him and we need a contingency plan for his retirement and none of the other potentials look that good for us. His cousin over at Tigerland may actually be a required player for us... he has the tools and it will take a long time for us to develop our own.
Stanley looks like a 3rd tall at best. White is young and has been injured. Needs more time. Maister was tried and despite being smart and hardworking... isn't good enough.
Lee I feel is unfairly maligned. Missed the entire pre-season and was a long way behind in terms of building strength... was never going to be ready in the 1st half of the season though a few poor performances and a need for forwards has really emphasized this.

In terms of small to medium forwards: Savage hasn't done well and needs to figure it out. Saunders looks decent as midfield forward... Eli was promising before going down. Like I said before Siposs and Milera are only now getting their chances and need a stint, Dunnell is pushing for an opportunity too, Billings looks a good prospect whilst TDL looks set to be cut. Simpkin is a player we'd like to see have a go at trying to be Aaron Hamil. Schnieder as been up and down but only just started playing though I'm not a big fan personally.

Backline looks alright. Delaney is good one on one and Bruce is decent. They are the start of a decent structure but you feel like they need at least one more big guy down there to help out. Fisher's absence has hurt really badly. Gilbert looked cemented back in the 22 b4 going down as a medium back that could play tall and run, whilst Simpkin doesn't look big enough. Webster and Newnes look good defensively provide run and decent disposal though the later has a bit on a knock on his IMO. Wright looked a beast before he went down... I like the look of him.

I feel like we lack polish and pacecoming out of the backline. Wouldn't mind seeing Milera play on a HBF more, and Geary despite being a ferocious beast needs to improve his disposal if he wants to stay on the list. Shenton looks alright, will pbly be upgraded. Gwilt to me gets exposed far to much and shouldn't play much more though he is a great club man and Roberton is an interesting case... seems to have lost confidence, disposal has dropped, is a long way off. Personally I think Dylan is an example of why you should rest players if they're not 100% sometimes.

Midfield... needs a star or two. Lenny remains a beast, Monty is good most of the time. It's no secret that I don't rate CJ and feel he should not be offered anymore games unless he's banging the door down and tearing them apart. Curren looks good as a stopper as does Mave, Ross needs a stint to see if he can develop his strengths and detract his obvious weakness of being a poor spreader. Steven looks like bouncing back after injury, Armitage looked good early before hurting his leg, Dunstan looks like he could be rookie of the year whilst Acres showed some signs before going down.
Markworth pushed for a senior spot early in the season but has fallen away as Sandy's support has lessened due to our injuries... Murdoch went from the invisable man to pushing for the top 22... Dunnell wants the medium forward/push into the midfield role, and Ray has made me look more foolish then usual for wanting him cut... good season.

Thanks for reading

[Con Gorozidis]

Thanks for posting.

I was one of those who had us bottom 4.
Nothing has changed for me.
forget the coach.
Our list is grossly imbalanced.
We had two guys in the 40 to 100 game group last week.

we have 30 guys on our list with under 40 games.

50% or 15 of these guys will not make it and will be gone by three years.
fact.

BUT
we might. All going well. Have 15 guys who are good and with 50-150 games experience.
If that happens we are on like donkey kong in 2019-2021.
If not then not.

[PJ]

Agree Skeptic things are progressing pretty much as would be hoped for. A lot of positives so far for a bottom 4 team that is trying to build a base for success. Anyone thinking it's going to happen over night is completely unrealistic. Having said that the odd unpredicted win is absolute magic and must give the young blokes massive heart for their work rate.

Just another positive - with Milney retiring I think Eli and Jack B look good for the future mid/small forward roles.

[plugger66]

We are in the exact position i thought we would be in. The only disappointing thing is clearly our best players are over 30. i suppose that has happened because of jacks injury. Still expecting him to be classed at about our best player by seasons end. I suppose the other disappointing thing was the win over Essendon gave some of us hope we were slightly better than we thought but alas we probably are a bottom 2 or 3 side.

[Cairnsman]

We are in the exact position i thought we would be in. The only disappointing thing is clearly our best players are over 30. i suppose that has happened because of jacks injury. Still expecting him to be classed at about our best player by seasons end. I suppose the other disappointing thing was the win over Essendon gave some of us hope we were slightly better than we thought but alas we probably are a bottom 2 or 3 side.

Just asking, did you really think we were slightly better after the win over the Dons? I was wrapped for the win but even that night the group of Saints supporters I was with put it into perspective which was we got them on a real off time and they got us at a real 'on' time.

BTW these weekly mass media cliché type reviews are becoming boring. They are all reading the same.

[plugger66]

We are in the exact position i thought we would be in. The only disappointing thing is clearly our best players are over 30. i suppose that has happened because of jacks injury. Still expecting him to be classed at about our best player by seasons end. I suppose the other disappointing thing was the win over Essendon gave some of us hope we were slightly better than we thought but alas we probably are a bottom 2 or 3 side.

Just asking, did you really think we were slightly better after the win over the Dons? I was wrapped for the win but even that night the group of Saints supporters I was with put it into perspective which was we got them on a real off time and they got us at a real 'on' time.

BTW these weekly mass media cliché type reviews are becoming boring. They are all reading the same.

Of course I thought we were slightly better because we beat a side at the time that looked like it was going ok. In time its been proven Essendon arent going ok. And I said slightly better. i would be pretty sure 99% of supporters thought we were slightly better after that win. Again its be proven wrong.

[oh when the]

We are playing like we did in the NAB Series - gaps of play when we let the other side score 5-6 goals in a row, and then we have to play catch up which we are not good enough to do.

[desertsaint]

All I've seen since the preseason is a team that seems to be more united under our new coach, young players making typical young player errors, and two absolute beauties we've added. Quite happy with what I've seen so far.

[saintspremiers]

Win wise as expected for me. But our injury management has been farcical and a disgrace. Hopefully heads will roll and they'll get a more competent team in next season.

[Lyon Tamer]

Forward line the key. Stanley and Lee are the keys. Need some high marking, pack breaking FWs who can provide a target and straighten us up.

If one of them can be that man, then regardless of everything else, that would mean we are on the right track. If not (even if they are) we need to focus our attention on finding one through the draft or trade as a matter of urgency.

Everywhere else around the ground, it looks like we are developing a team/list that could be successful. Results almost irrelevant

[skeptic]

LT, would you go after Riewoldt jnr?

[Lyon Tamer]

LT, would you go after Riewoldt jnr?

In a perfect world our new power forward would be 21 or younger (ie Patton) but you wouldn't say no to a 2 x Coleman medallist, especially after his lazy 11 yesterday

[spert]

We seem to be getting hammered in the midfield early in most games and that is my big worry, followed by the Roo-centric forward line..something AR needs to work on.

[samuraisaint]

Forward line is dysfunctional. Stanley should not receive another contract. We need to make every post a winner. Jones, although he has been good, is at the end. Same with Farren Ray, he panics too much. Geary needs to watch his position too. Kicking skills are below par, but if he leaves he could become another Guerra, so better get the skills coaches to work with him while he can't play.

[FQF]

For me, one of the major positives is that despite being lacklustre and somewhat directionless for large chunks of matches, there are periods in almost every game where we reach a new gear, move the ball fluently, kicks goals and give a sliver of hope. It is those periods that give hope that with experience and polish, they will became the norm.

I've seen a lot of terrible teams over the years, languishing at the bottom, who simply don't show that sort of potential. We do, even if it's fleeting, there is something there to work with.

[plugger66]

LT, would you go after Riewoldt jnr?

How could we get him? We dont have tradable players and pick 1,2 or 3 is to much and pick 20 isnt anywhere near enough.

[3rd generation saint]

The only disappointing thing this year was the loss to Brisbane after such a good win over Essendon. As for the injuries, we have players with broken bones, not much you can do about that, no injury management could foresee or prevent it.
Picked us to win maybe 5 games for the year, which means we have to find 2 more wins.
We seem to start slow too, the last two games were lost early, if we had produced similar football in the first half that we did in the second, we have beaten either Carlton or Gary Ablett aka Gold Coast.

[Junction Oval]

It's about where I thought we would be (except the size of Hawks loss) and good to see a couple of young guys on the way up. However, I can't see any up-coming "stars" of the future that will make us a top team. Due to injuries, some of the younger guys are not being rested and we may have to put up with a few more disastrous results.

We have fixed (but for injuries), the Backline to a large degree. Now it's the Mids that need some serious talent bolstering and another Riewoldt or similar too, please for the forward line.

[Bluthy]

The biggest question for me for the rest of this year and probably next is which , if any, of the fringe players who have been in the system for a while will break in for a regular spot in a bottom 3 team, racked with injuries and retirements when they are being beaten into the 22 by first year draftees. We have lots of these similar sized players - Saunders, Ross, Dunnell, Murdoch, Minchington, Weller, TDL, Geary, Roberton, Milera, Murdoch, Shenton - who aren't quick and don't have great disposal which is becoming more and more key with congestion in footy. My gut says not many of these will make it. We are almost starting at year zero with our future list with Steven and Armo as the seniors and a few like Hickey, Webster, Curren etc and then going down to the Dunstan, Billings generation and beyond. Some of those other players may be place holders while we have retirements and maybe someone like Saunders may make it by becoming a tough Sewell type but we really want skilful dangerous players all through our list if when our premiership window opens up.

[spert]

If you look at premiership teams, it is obvious that a high level of foot and hand skills are across the board in those teams, so I don't think we will be able to hold on to too many players who have poor disposal and poor decision making. We need to build our skills base, and when you see gimpses of Newnes, Billings, Dunstan and Acres, you realise there's a big gap between them and Jones, Geary, Stanley and Ray in those areas. It will be interesting to see how the list is managed at the end of this season

[Trixilver]

Apart from the fact that we're dropping like flies, we're doing okay.

[MrCordz]

Thanks for the post Skeptic - enjoyed the read - very positive for a sceptic aren't you?

[BigMart]

One very disappointing result Bris

Two very poor efforts Adel& Haw... I thought we could challenge Adel, Haw was an insipid effort

Couple of reasonable wins GWS & Mel

One frustrating loss Carl


One great win

One great effort loss WCE

So an expected mixed bag...

I had us 3-6 with different wins... So yeah... Pretty much as I thought