Dermie Suggesting Senior Players Running Club

[howlinwolf]

We have blooded more new players this year than we have in years. Managed a few good wins too.
The club is very mindful of our financial situation and the lack of a major sponsor. Therefore they need to balance the blend of experienced players and new.

How would our membership drive and major sponsor drive look if we copped beltings like last saturday every week ?
To take out senior players like Dermie says would surely expose us to more hidings.
Maybe that's what he'd like to see ? He has no love for us.

While last saturday was a shocker I'm very happy with the direction of the club.

[Cairnsman]

I said similar last year.

Roo and Joey IMO, gave the club a "him or me" stance with Watters.

They acted on that, and there is no coming back from it....

Ross gave the seniors too much love, Scott not enough, now Richo probably too much again.

What's irrelevant though, is derms motive, clearly stil bitter on his mates behalf.

Delusional post. Russell Holmesby came on and said that 8 or 9 players were going to walk out, not just 1 or 2. Was not a happy team and if Watter's behaviour to those around him was anything to go by, I would have walked out also. Nobody minds a tough hard coach, they just require respect. To think that Ross was soft and gave them lots of cuddles is ridiculous. Have you not seen Ross Lyon up close and in action? Cross that man or not do as he asks of you and watch out! Ask any St Kilda player during his tenure at our club.

Dermott's opinion was farcical and clearly showed a vendetta. Barely had 2 nice words to say about us after our wins, but lines us up after a loss by a team that had predominantly young kids and has been hit by injuries that was playing last years (and most likely this years) premiers. His attack on Gwilt is what is the most disturbing. Of course he has the most goals kicked against him. Being played out of position and the only experienced back man that is left marshalling a defense that is missing many experienced players and consists of young kids. Really, give the guy a break!

Anyway, back to St Kilda bashing if it makes you feel better. Let's cut all of our experienced players like Melbourne did and lose the fabric of the club. You don't need experienced campaigners. Just ask Melbourne. How many years has it taken them to recover cutting all of there long time experienced players and only play the kids? They still haven't come out of it.

I'm not saying that Watters was popular, or that he should stay.

I'm saying they were all used to being treated in a certain way.

Wouldn't surprise me if that many threatened to leave, he didn't have the players at all.

It's not disrespectful to say the players overthrew Watters, they did. How is that delusional?

I think people overreact when anyone says anything remotely negative. Show me where I said cut all the senior players?

How is it stkilda bashing to have a different POV to you?

I said there was some truths hidden amongst the poison.

I'm not comfortable with the control Pelchen seemingly has either.

SainterK what part specifically are you not comfortable with?

It wasn't just the players but the assistants weren't happy with Watters.

Yep heard that too but my question to SainterK was what part of Pelchens power is she specifically not comfortable with?

Is she, and possibly Dermie suggesting that there are problems with the amount of control Pelchens has, or put another way, how he executes his control.

Clearly Dermie understands the structure at the club and clearly he knows the coach reports to Pelchen and clearly it was a back-hander to suggest AR should go directly to Andrew Thompson.

We all know Dermie doesn't think much of Pelchen but why would we not be comfortable with any aspect of Pelchens control?

A genuine question.

[magnifisaint]

Richardson knows what he's getting into. He knows that Pelchen rules the club and so he shouldn't be surprised about it. I'm sure he accepts his role and wouldn't be alarmed otherwise he wouldn't have taken the job. Richardson knows what he has to do and I'm sure that's not going to change with a few beatings. He's better than that.

[spert]

I think I saw Watters letting someone's tyres down one day, after he threw a brick through a shop window and put graffiti on someone's fence and then started World War 3.

Definately no doubt the tail wags the dog down at Seaford...let's hope Richo has a knife-proof back protector on and sees off the white anters.

[chook23]

I think I saw Watters letting someone's tyres down one day, after he threw a brick through a shop window and put graffiti on someone's fence and then started World War 3.

Definately no doubt the tail wags the dog down at Seaford...let's hope Richo has a knife-proof back protector on and sees off the white anters.

Any facts to support your comments.............

[spert]

Yeah... Watter's sacking

[dragit]

Yeah... Watter's sacking

Poor old Scotty was a brilliant coach, just bullied out of the club by the senior players for no reason.

His career is over… the guy was no good, the only bloke who thinks differently is Derm…

[SainterK]

Recruitment of saad/milera/TDL was overkill IMO. We desperately needed to follow the trend of most other football clubs and move away from goal sneaks and towards guys who could run through the midfield and rest foward if needs be.

He seems to have a lot of influence on match day. Sits by Alan's side, in constant dialogue.

Alan seems terrific, but he was also on the panel that selected Scott. So he's not without responsibility there.

He extended the contracts of Polo/Raph/Peake at the end of 2011 and seemed cool with letting Dawson go, who lets be honest, was someone he previously had cut

We then went 2 full seasons before drafting any KP backmen, not 1, but 2 seasons and many thought it was excuse making when Scott said it contributed to our performance. The only person invited to train with us, was Dowler, someone he'd taken very high at hawthorn.

Tom Lee was reportedly more Scott's wish, why aren't we seeing him? Siposs was rated highly by Scott, we are not seeing him either?

I know assistants were prepared to walk, Max and Hamill when push comes to shove, I reckon were on the Pelchen/Player side of the white line.

Dunstall very happy he left the hawks, if you ask questions and scratch the surface, he is a control freak according to many.

It may work out fine, but not everything anyone does at stkilda should require automatic applause.

I'm cautious, and as always, will be the first to send him my congratulations when and if it all comes together.

[Megsie]

Poor dermie. If not controversial then just a nobody in the media.
he's a laugh a minute. Becoming an overweight hack at best.

[Megsie]

Poor dermie. If not controversial then just a nobody in the media.
he's a laugh a minute. Becoming an overweight hack at best.

[mr six o'clock]

Poor dermie. If not controversial then just a nobody in the media.
he's a laugh a minute. Becoming an overweight hack at best.

Yes
He was a good player , but lucky to get to hawthorn in there golden era .
If he wasn't a part of 5 flags , he would be unlikely to be in the media .

[Junction Oval]

Very interesting Post above, SainterK.

This is a bit off-topic, but I must admit that I also get very nervous seeing Pelchen sitting alongside the Coach and clearly giving advice - I thought that was the job of the Assistant coaches ! There should be no problem with him being inside the box - but alongside the Coach ?? Next, it will be the President on the otherside

The Hawks were happy to let Pelchen go(and Dermie would have inside knowledge on that), so clearly, he is not the messiah, as your comments above on some of his recruiting decisions point out. To give him his dues, he and his team made some good recruiting decisions last year.

It's a matter of getting the entire Club to pull together - players, coaches & admin. Let's see what Matt Finnis can do in this area as the new CEO. Clearly, Nettlefold never got things under control and running smoothly.

[Legendary]

The problem with Dermott is that the facts don't support his argument. We have blooded 9 new players this year, the second most in the competition (behind Lions with 10). Richardson has played every new player who was taken over the draft/trade period last year, with the exception of Holmes (who looks like he might get a game soon anyway, based on form). He has picked guys who have shown form in the VFL (Weller, Simpkin) and given them an opportunity.

What more can you ask? There aren't too many guys in the VFL who haven't had an opportunity yet and deserve one on form.

Of the senior players that Dermie is talking about, which ones would get a game at Hawthorn? Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna and Schneider clearly yes. If anyone is disputing Schneider, have a look at his game against the Bombers. Ray? I reckon he would be fairly close. Probably in and out of the side. Dempster? Fairly close. May also find himself in and out of the side on team balance. Both would be getting games at Gold Coast/Fremantle etc.
So it really only leaves Gwilt and Jones who are "list cloggers" that Dermott talks about. Unless he thinks that we should be excluding other players from our best 22 who would also be in the best 22 in the premiership side.

So I understand his argument if we are talking about Gwilt and Jones, but the flipside is Richardson trying to find a balance between youth and experience. Why does Dermott think that GWS drafted some ageing "list cloggers" to help out in their first few seasons? To support the youngsters.
It's not an exact science, and Richardson has already shifted the balance over the course of the year. He's 7 games in and also still learning about the list and forming his own opinion of different players.

I don't think Dermott's argument has any merit. Ask Caro how much credibility Dermott has when it comes to talking about St Kilda, Watters and Pelchen. Most in the industry think that he has gone way too far on this issue and that it has become a bit pathetic that he won't let it go.

[Spinner]

Recruitment of saad/milera/TDL was overkill IMO. We desperately needed to follow the trend of most other football clubs and move away from goal sneaks and towards guys who could run through the midfield and rest foward if needs be.

He seems to have a lot of influence on match day. Sits by Alan's side, in constant dialogue.

Alan seems terrific, but he was also on the panel that selected Scott. So he's not without responsibility there.

He extended the contracts of Polo/Raph/Peake at the end of 2011 and seemed cool with letting Dawson go, who lets be honest, was someone he previously had cut

We then went 2 full seasons before drafting any KP backmen, not 1, but 2 seasons and many thought it was excuse making when Scott said it contributed to our performance. The only person invited to train with us, was Dowler, someone he'd taken very high at hawthorn.

Tom Lee was reportedly more Scott's wish, why aren't we seeing him? Siposs was rated highly by Scott, we are not seeing him either?

I know assistants were prepared to walk, Max and Hamill when push comes to shove, I reckon were on the Pelchen/Player side of the white line.

Dunstall very happy he left the hawks, if you ask questions and scratch the surface, he is a control freak according to many.

It may work out fine, but not everything anyone does at stkilda should require automatic applause.

I'm cautious, and as always, will be the first to send him my congratulations when and if it all comes together.

Lee has been awful coming back from injury and Siposs not much better until this weekend. Not seeing them because of form.

[thezelk]

I think it's quiet common these days for the head of football to sit in the coaches box on match days. Makes perfect sense, he is their boss.

Show's how much Dermie knowns, with his line that Richo should go above Pelchen's head straight to Thommo. Hell, why stop there, why not go straight to the media like his little mate Watters, and disrespect the club and the very men who gave him the job.

Though Dermie raised a few good points, one being Jones, like a mate of mine said, if he is still in our team come years end, i'll be disappointed. he's had a good start to the season, obviously loved by the players. but if we don't develop a kid to enhance the team to take his place, we're in a spot of bother.

Ridiculus comment re Richmond, they topped up with mature age players because they felt they can really challenge, but most importantly they have a plan! What we don't, Thought our plan was pretty well documented preseason and beyond.

Don't mind Finey overall, though loves the sound of his own voice. Understand he loves our club like we all do, but he can go to town on us aswell.
Thought he stuck up for us last night and was well measured in his response, Russell Holmesby, Gold.

[HitTheBoundary]

It'll be interesting to see if the perception of Pelchen's supposed power within the club changes now that we have a (hopefully) strong and competent CEO.

[SainterK]

The problem with Dermott is that the facts don't support his argument. We have blooded 9 new players this year, the second most in the competition (behind Lions with 10). Richardson has played every new player who was taken over the draft/trade period last year, with the exception of Holmes (who looks like he might get a game soon anyway, based on form). He has picked guys who have shown form in the VFL (Weller, Simpkin) and given them an opportunity.

What more can you ask? There aren't too many guys in the VFL who haven't had an opportunity yet and deserve one on form.

Of the senior players that Dermie is talking about, which ones would get a game at Hawthorn? Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna and Schneider clearly yes. If anyone is disputing Schneider, have a look at his game against the Bombers. Ray? I reckon he would be fairly close. Probably in and out of the side. Dempster? Fairly close. May also find himself in and out of the side on team balance. Both would be getting games at Gold Coast/Fremantle etc.
So it really only leaves Gwilt and Jones who are "list cloggers" that Dermott talks about. Unless he thinks that we should be excluding other players from our best 22 who would also be in the best 22 in the premiership side.

So I understand his argument if we are talking about Gwilt and Jones, but the flipside is Richardson trying to find a balance between youth and experience. Why does Dermott think that GWS drafted some ageing "list cloggers" to help out in their first few seasons? To support the youngsters.
It's not an exact science, and Richardson has already shifted the balance over the course of the year. He's 7 games in and also still learning about the list and forming his own opinion of different players.

I don't think Dermott's argument has any merit. Ask Caro how much credibility Dermott has when it comes to talking about St Kilda, Watters and Pelchen. Most in the industry think that he has gone way too far on this issue and that it has become a bit pathetic that he won't let it go.

He really didn't mention new recruits, more those on the list 2 or more years, and mature age recruits. Ross, Siposs, Lee, Milera, Bruce...also asked why Ross was dropped to bring in Weller/Acres, and not someone like Jones.

[SainterK]

Recruitment of saad/milera/TDL was overkill IMO. We desperately needed to follow the trend of most other football clubs and move away from goal sneaks and towards guys who could run through the midfield and rest foward if needs be.

He seems to have a lot of influence on match day. Sits by Alan's side, in constant dialogue.

Alan seems terrific, but he was also on the panel that selected Scott. So he's not without responsibility there.

He extended the contracts of Polo/Raph/Peake at the end of 2011 and seemed cool with letting Dawson go, who lets be honest, was someone he previously had cut

We then went 2 full seasons before drafting any KP backmen, not 1, but 2 seasons and many thought it was excuse making when Scott said it contributed to our performance. The only person invited to train with us, was Dowler, someone he'd taken very high at hawthorn.

Tom Lee was reportedly more Scott's wish, why aren't we seeing him? Siposs was rated highly by Scott, we are not seeing him either?

I know assistants were prepared to walk, Max and Hamill when push comes to shove, I reckon were on the Pelchen/Player side of the white line.

Dunstall very happy he left the hawks, if you ask questions and scratch the surface, he is a control freak according to many.

It may work out fine, but not everything anyone does at stkilda should require automatic applause.

I'm cautious, and as always, will be the first to send him my congratulations when and if it all comes together.

Lee has been awful coming back from injury and Siposs not much better until this weekend. Not seeing them because of form.

Thanks, though I guess, to be fair Schneider and Fisher were both rushed back into the squad with little preparation or form.

[Harvey]

Brearaton is an <edited by Mod>, I've had no respect for him since his cowardly act of 'king hitting' Danny Frawley from behind and 100 metres behind the play. He's a gutless <edited by Mod>.

If this problem did really exist, why not raise it the Monday after we beat Essendon? Any gutless jerk can throw <edited by Mod> after a terrible loss...

If there are really senior players 'running the club' or 'calling the shots', then now is the time to kick their arses right out of the club.

List Clogger is a cheap throw-away line. Fact is there are insufficient A Grade players to go around now we have 18 teams. Sure, we have a few guys toward the end of their careers, and some battlers. But for the most part, I'm delighted in the way the selectors are introducing the kids.

Yep, Dermie is a tool...


<Warning for Swearing>

I agree with everything in this post, except for the bit about Brereton's "cowardly act of 'king hitting' Danny Frawley from behind and 100 metres behind the play". He was actually in front of Frawley and leading up the ground when Frawley grabbed his jumper. Brereton gave him a no-look back-hander similar to the punch Robbie Muir gave Dennis Collins in the 70's.

But yeah, Dermie is a tool… Most of the media are. They don't really have much to talk about so they've gotta find ways to justify their pay packets. They thrive on putting the boot into clubs after a bad loss. Good for ratings. They throw the petrol and hand us the matches. We get angry, agree, disagree, fight each other, bag the club and say we've had enough. Meanwhile everyone else "grabs the popcorn", happy it's not their club in the crosshairs.

We've got some great young talent, but now is the time we really need to show patience, give support to AR and the boys. Every club has their share of list cloggers. That's why players from every club are are delisted at the end of the season. Stupid criticism by Brereton. We've been proactive about turning our list over and playing the kids. Jones and Gwilt maybe aren't part of our future plans, but 22 games is a long season and we need some strong bodies out there, otherwise we'll get thrashed by 140 points every weekend.

[saintspremiers]

Getting warning for swearing re Dermott is not fair.

Dermie is a tool who loves Scotty and is biased and anti St.Kilda

[GRAMophone]

We have blooded more new players this year than we have in years. Managed a few good wins too.
The club is very mindful of our financial situation and the lack of a major sponsor. Therefore they need to balance the blend of experienced players and new.

How would our membership drive and major sponsor drive look if we copped beltings like last saturday every week ?
To take out senior players like Dermie says would surely expose us to more hidings.
Maybe that's what he'd like to see ? He has no love for us.

While last saturday was a shocker I'm very happy with the direction of the club.

Well said

[The Saintsational Man]

.....it's quite amazing to see that after Dermie has voiced a few opinions that many on here don't agree with, that he's branded a clueless hack when it comes to anything regarding football.

Sure, he may be way off the mark here and is probably upset about his mate getting the boot, but Dermott is one of the great football minds and his insight many times is usually on the money.

Relax people!!!

[evertonfc]

Brereton is decent as an analyst and whatever he says, well, is worth exploring - even if it isn't true.

I'd say he's got this one right in the sense that our players have a lot of power. The senior players halted a training session following the big trip to Perth, sensing the younger boys weren't coping.

However, I'm content with their level of power because it is for the good of the list and for the good of the club. They're genuinely trying to develop the next generation quickly so they can have one last crack at the finals. I think we're down to bare bones in experience and they're worth holding on to for their professionalism alone.

Whilst I'm content to hear out Dermie on many issues, I respectfully disagree that it is adversely affecting the club.

[spert]

Brereton can dangle his premiership medals in front of us, an under-performing club and say what he thinks, and I'm sure behind all his bluff, he wants all clubs to do well. There was and never is going to be the tail wagging the dog situation at Hawthorn- no player sooks to the board or anyone else at that club, and that's why they are successful.

[satchmo]

Brereton could stomp on your head, racially abuse you, break your jaw behind play....the list goes on.
He can also sook on live radio that the bloke who sacked his best buddy will never work again.
Sure, he has a football brain; it's all leathery and over-inflated.