Dermie Suggesting Senior Players Running Club

[Cairnsman]

He is on SEN saying they are list cloggers and suggesting AR might be playing them because they run the club.

Reckons Andrew Thompson should instruct AR to just play the players he wants to play, I suspect that is a bit of a back hand dig at Pelchen.

Obviously need to put it in perspective based on his relationship with SW but I thought it was a very interesting inference.

[asaint]

Guys a tool , with a viscious vendetta against Pelchen.

[Jacks Back]

Yes. Finey was saying a similar thing as Dermie about playing the youngsters like Ross, Sippos or Dunnell instead of people like Jones (can't kick and NOW can't handball), Gwilt (5th worst in league for goals against), Ray (might get 25 possessions but 20 go to the opposition or smothered), etc.

[CURLY]

Who would be the senior players you'd leave out on performance?

Roo- No
Hayes- No
Joey- No
Ray - no
Jones- maybe but harsh
Dempster- no
Gwilt- probably

[Cairnsman]

Who would be the senior players you'd leave out on performance?

Roo- No
Hayes- No
Joey- No
Ray - no
Jones- maybe but harsh
Dempster- no
Gwilt- probably

Another way of looking at those players is how many of them would get a game for a premiership contending team his year. Just don't think there is anything that can be done overnight, it's the situation we are in and in a way Dermie calling them list cloggers is like trying to describe water is wet. The young players have to knock them out of the team and therein lies another problem that isn't going to fix itself overnight.

[SainterK]

I said similar last year.

Roo and Joey IMO, gave the club a "him or me" stance with Watters.

They acted on that, and there is no coming back from it....

Ross gave the seniors too much love, Scott not enough, now Richo probably too much again.

What's irrelevant though, is derms motive, clearly stil bitter on his mates behalf.

[magnifisaint]

What does Tony 74 think

[sunsaint]

Yes. Finey was saying a similar thing as Dermie about playing the youngsters like Ross, Sippos or Dunnell instead of people like Jones (can't kick and NOW can't handball), Gwilt (5th worst in league for goals against), Ray (might get 25 possessions but 20 go to the opposition or smothered), etc.

and Finey ran a campaign against Watters...
After a while you get tired of defending those players you dont like - so riddle me this -
Three very different coaches have seen fit to play them...
Pelchen has not axed them...
but in the end you will get your wish as all careers eventually come to an end.

[dragit]

I said similar last year.

Roo and Joey IMO, gave the club a "him or me" stance with Watters.

They acted on that, and there is no coming back from it....

Ross gave the seniors too much love, Scott not enough, now Richo probably too much again.

What's irrelevant though, is derms motive, clearly stil bitter on his mates behalf.

Even if this was true, they are comfortably our best 2 players this year… so I can't see how they could be seen as being gifted games or be remotely thought of as "list cloggers"?

[spert]

I reckon the tail wagged the dog during Watter's time, and I also reckon Watters pointed the finger at a few senior players who took the foot off the accelerator when Lyon left, and noses were probably put out of joint..sooking to board..coach gets the flick with feeble explanation to media by club. Much easier to offload newish coach than senior players.

[Sainterman]

What was Dermie saying 3 weeks ago? Pretty easy to take a pot shot at the Saints today but was he saying that when we were exceeding everyones expectations just a few weeks back.

We can't magically produce youngsters to come in a replace some of the players mentioned above. The club has been progressive in its forward planning over the last few years and seem to be trying to address the problems our list obviously had/has.

And really, I think it is fair to say we have been playing the kids anyway. Yeah, we could give CJ or Gwilt the boot, and that may yet happen in favor of a kid or two, but those kids need to bang the door down and be able to perform as well if not better than the incumbent. Otherwise I feel we have been playing kids and managing them quite well so far.

I don't even want to imagine what we'd look like without Roo and Joey out there so if they gave an ultimatum then it would have needed consideration.

[SaintPav]

I reckon the tail wagged the dog during Watter's time, and I also reckon Watters pointed the finger at a few senior players who took the foot off the accelerator when Lyon left, and noses were probably put out of joint..sooking to board..coach gets the flick with feeble explanation to media by club. Much easier to offload newish coach than senior players.

<edited by mods>

So what about Watters behavioral issues?

Scott Watters was a <edited by mods>.

<Warning for swearing>

[ljpoyz]

It is not harsh to drop Jones, can not kick or handball... We've moved past him now, its about the next gen.

Who would be the senior players you'd leave out on performance?
Roo- No
Hayes- No
Joey- No
Ray - no
Jones- maybe but harsh
Dempster- no
Gwilt- probably

[Bluthy]

I do get the feeling that Richo thought he could do a Lazurus with our list this year mixing the aging superstars with talented kids and maybe even sneak into the eight if very lucky. A lot of rookie coaches fall for that trick *cough* Watters *cough*. He's rushed back Steven and Gilbo. They've been working the hell out fitness wise and I don't know if the group is older enough to cope with that load. We still need some experience out there - Roo, Hayes, Dempster, Joey are locks. Its a judgement call on the others. Getting the mix right is an art form. You've got to weigh up getting games into the kids, the demoralisation of losing, sponsers and members expectations, setting a benchmark of effort, experienced players passing on their knowledge in game etc.

[mr six o'clock]

You have to laugh when they say senior players running the club .
During watters time maybe , but they had runs on the board .
Now the only one's left are roo joey and lenny .
I would think that by the end of the season players like gwilt , jones and meister will not get another contract .
fisher snides ray and gilbo are just about done as well , but you carn't get rid of everyone

[spert]

I reckon the tail wagged the dog during Watter's time, and I also reckon Watters pointed the finger at a few senior players who took the foot off the accelerator when Lyon left, and noses were probably put out of joint..sooking to board..coach gets the flick with feeble explanation to media by club. Much easier to offload newish coach than senior players.

<edited by mods>

So what about Watters behavioral issues?

Scott Watters was a <edited by mods>.

No worse behavioural issues than any other AFL coach, and I'm pretty right in what I said, so go and clean up your <edited by mods>

<warning for swearing>

[perfectionist]

Dermott Brereton was a great footballer. But the next time he says something remotely sensible will be the first.

[SainterK]

I said similar last year.

Roo and Joey IMO, gave the club a "him or me" stance with Watters.

They acted on that, and there is no coming back from it....

Ross gave the seniors too much love, Scott not enough, now Richo probably too much again.

What's irrelevant though, is derms motive, clearly stil bitter on his mates behalf.

Even if this was true, they are comfortably our best 2 players this year… so I can't see how they could be seen as being gifted games or be remotely thought of as "list cloggers"?

It's not roo and joey that are list cloggers, but they represent a 09/10 group that the club seems to struggling to let go of?

Derm isn't wrong, I'm just questioning his motivation.

[Cairnsman]

Dermott Brereton was a great footballer. But the next time he says something remotely sensible will be the first.

As a very famous poster would say, I reckon he's got most people covered on SS.

[WellardSaint]

Dermie is just another guy with an opinion.
Being an ex-footballer, his opinion may carry a bit more weight than those of us who never aspired to, or had the talent, to succeed at AFL level.
But only because he has a feel for footy club dynamics.
Or should I say "had".

Things were different in his day.
Now, IMHO, there is a lot more money involved, and clubs are run strictly as a business with many stakeholders to answer to.
Moreso than in his day.

Also, we agree he must be biased, as his mate (he admitted) got the flick.

Opinion.

There are a lot of airline pilots with opinions on what MAY have happened to MH370.
Well, they are as clueless as the rest of us, well, except the 777 jockeys know about ACARS; turning off the transponder;
the EE cabinet below the cockpit where a lot of the sensitive electronics can be accessed;
the secret code/method for unlocking the cockpit door (there is no way a pilot can shut any other crew out)

but in the end, unless THEY WERE THERE at the time, or have exclusive inside knowledge...
it's only speculation.

[SainterK]

For those that missed it, he listed Jones, Schneider, Gwilt as list cloggers.

Not part of the next flag.

Insinuating that the tail wags the dog, that these guys continually play over kids.

I'm putting words in his mouth, but I reckon he hinted that Scott tried to undo the tail wags the dog, but Richo has restored things back to how they were.

Said Lee, Siposs, Ross, Bruce should get a decent run at it to see if they are any good, and that this should happen at the guys above expense.

Oh yeah, and he said if acres makes way for dunstan, and not jones or Schneider, it will clearly define his point. I can't argue with that though, I hope Blake stays in and Dunstan makes his way back in also.

[bigcarl]

Still dirty his mate Watters got the flick. No surprises here

[SainterK]

He is on SEN saying they are list cloggers and suggesting AR might be playing them because they run the club.

Reckons Andrew Thompson should instruct AR to just play the players he wants to play, I suspect that is a bit of a back hand dig at Pelchen.

Obviously need to put it in perspective based on his relationship with SW but I thought it was a very interesting inference.

Why does Pelchen sit next to Alan in the box?

Maybe it's normal?

[Cairnsman]

I said similar last year.

Roo and Joey IMO, gave the club a "him or me" stance with Watters.

They acted on that, and there is no coming back from it....

Ross gave the seniors too much love, Scott not enough, now Richo probably too much again.

What's irrelevant though, is derms motive, clearly stil bitter on his mates behalf.

Even if this was true, they are comfortably our best 2 players this year… so I can't see how they could be seen as being gifted games or be remotely thought of as "list cloggers"?

It's not roo and joey that are list cloggers, but they represent a 09/10 group that the club seems to struggling to let go of?

Derm isn't wrong, I'm just questioning his motivation.

I agree that his motivation is fairly transparent and to a certain degree I could see how a couple of long serving employees could wield some influence. With regards to Roo and Joey I think they've earned the right to sit around the table with senior management occasionally and have some input however that doesn't mean that their influence or input is having a negative impact which is what I think was being inferred by Dermie. In Dermie's defense he didn't name any senior players.

[Old Mate]

Who's Dermie's source, Scott Watters? Sounds legit.