Tommy Lee

[Saint wagga]

I was watching a couple of replays from the back end of last season and noticed how well Tom Lee seemed to be improving from his very ordinary start. By the time he played Freo in rd 23, he really looked the part at AFL level. I get that he had a disrupted pre-season (Shoulders i think), but so did Jack Newnes, and he's hit the ground running...whereas Lee looks like he's taken a lot longer to get his fitness back.

He clearly has his knockers; doesn't run enough, not big enough etc...but, Gee I hope it's a matter of trying to get hime really match fit in the two's and giving him a really good platform to play the 2nd half of the season...because if not, crikey it's looking like we traded away a fair bit for him...I get the feeling he's a player that might never dominate statistically at vfl level but who's capable of stepping up at AFL level (he wouldn't be alone there), as opposed to plenty of players who tear it up in the WAFl, VFL and SANFL but just don't have it when it comes to the next level. Thats just my opinion...any thoughts on this Young fella's progress as a 23y.o KPF moving forward in our bext 22??

[Old Mate]

Injury has certainly hampered his start to the season. I also believe he plays too small to be a crash and bash full forward and not agile enough to play as a third tall. A bit caught in the middle IMO. He's got age on his side and he's seen as a project. I hope he makes it but I'm leaning towards him not.

[FQF]

Get the impression they are trying to broaden his skill set and develop more versatility by playing him in the ruck at VFL. He is clearly not an AFL standard ruckman by any stretch, but the experience will be valuable.

When Beau got dropped and Lee was in good form, we thought he was a lock for the second forward spot. The fact that they didn't pick him makes me think/hope that they are following a plan of sorts.

[Old Mate]

Get the impression they are trying to broaden his skill set and develop more versatility by playing him in the ruck at VFL.

Or increase his fitness by making him run around the ground in the ruck

[Saint wagga]

Yeah i thought when he kicked a bag and Maister was struggling that was the moment to promote him, but the fact they didn't makes me think there is a longer term plan there...hopefully as i said, build up a great base and attack the 2nd half of the season full steam!

[FQF]

Get the impression they are trying to broaden his skill set and develop more versatility by playing him in the ruck at VFL.

Or increase his fitness by making him run around the ground in the ruck

Yep - a fit forward is a more versatile forward.

[Bluthy]

With Richo coming in, it becomes a fresh start. What he was traded for is irrelevant. Eli and Billings slotting straight in shows Richo wants a really dynamic, hard running, creative forward line to give space and unpredictability. Even Maister was running almost non stop to drag defenders out of position. Is Lee prepared to run that hard? That will be one of the big criteria's for him to get a shot. He's such a beautiful kick on goal you would love him to be that third lead up forward.

[gringo]

Lee will be alright I don't think there is any reason to think he won't make it. He's simply not back in the team after missing a large part of the preseason after surgery. The moment anyone is missing from the team they seem to be on the chopping block on here.

[bergholt]

Lee will be alright I don't think there is any reason to think he won't make it.

Well, at the moment he has only a couple of weapons - great kick at goal, solid mark - and a good number of question marks. He's not quick, not particularly agile, doesn't seem to have a huge workrate, just generally doesn't get near the ball that much.

He's unlikely to be Riewoldt, in the short term maybe he'll progress a bit like Aaron Black. Currently 28 games 44 goals. And then from that point on hopefully he takes the next step.

[gringo]

Lee will be alright I don't think there is any reason to think he won't make it.

Well, at the moment he has a couple of weapons - great kick at goal, solid mark - and a good number of question marks. He's not quick, not particularly agile, doesn't seem to have a huge workrate, just generally doesn't get near the ball that much.

He's unlikely to be Riewoldt, in the short term maybe he'll progress a bit like Aaron Black. Currently 28 games 44 goals. And then from that point on hopefully he takes the next step.

He played about 7 games and he is very good at picking up ground ball, marks well and is quick and agile. He hasn't shown it in the seniors yet but on WAFL form he has lots of tricks. His body hasn't held up but he scores an average of 2 goals a game in his first season. His age doesn't really make him comparable to anyone else but I like what he achieved in his first year. Richo looks like he only wants to play Rooey then a more flexible forward line around him to get back down the ground. He will probably adapt this post Riewoldt and Lee will be there long term I think.

[Wayne42]

Lee will be alright I don't think there is any reason to think he won't make it. He's simply not back in the team after missing a large part of the preseason after surgery. The moment anyone is missing from the team they seem to be on the chopping block on here.

Welcome back

[saintsRrising]

I too think he will make it
..once he gets fit enough. He is also a was quality kick at goal.

[philtee]

Could be our next Fraser Gehrig, as he certainly has the shape and the Clark Kent chin -
but will need a few hundred weights sessions to match Fraser's pack-busting strength.

Fraser was a dour defender for years at West Coast, but was re-invented by the Saints,
with a safe pair of hands, a big upper body, and a quick 30 metre sprint.
Being a good shot from 45m out was also handy.

[Legendary]

Lee has two attributes that should see him play at least 50+ games of AFL footy. Beyond that, it comes down to hard work and a bit of luck:
- Kicking for goal. Finishing is a skill lost on many modern footballers. Gehrig had it. Heatley had it. Lee is a beautiful kick for goal and will not waste his chances.
- "Forward" smarts - too many key position players, especially at junior level, are good athletes with little idea of how to play forward of the ball. Lee reads the play and knows where to lead. Something that not every footballer picks up.

He finished off 2013 really strongly, and performed well in his games against Carlton and Fremantle.

No doubt he needs to get fitter. He's not super quick, but he's strong and if he can build his endurance, he will be an asset at AFL level.

In my opinion it's premature to judge him until we've seen another 10-15 games at AFL level. If he's a 2-goal, 5-6 mark contributor each week, he will hold down a spot.

[SaintPav]

Could be our next Fraser Gehrig, as he certainly has the shape and the Clark Kent chin -
but will need a few hundred weights sessions to match Fraser's pack-busting strength.

Fraser was a dour defender for years at West Coast, but was re-invented by the Saints,
with a safe pair of hands, a big upper body, and a quick 30 metre sprint.
Being a good shot from 45m out was also handy.

Fraser played everywhere for WC. Played wing and forward and he didn't bulk up until later in his career.

He did play in the backline for us in his first couple of years but he wasn't a fullback at WC

[Con Gorozidis]

Fraser was All Australian at age 21.

Tom Lee better get a wriggle on and get in that gym. He is a very good player but in my opinion he hasnt committed to the work to get an AFL physique. Maybe Fraser should give him some one on one sessions.

[FQF]

Fraser was an out and out star

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

I think something that has delayed Lee's inclusion has been Rhys Stanley's form (particularly in the last two games).

I reckon Richo and co. will have been fairly pleased with the structure we've had up forward with Roo and Rhys, and Billings supporting.

Prior to that we were playing with 3 talls up forward, but seeing as Rhys is playing well and that we're pretty light on in midfield depth, they probably want to leave it at two talls up forward for now.

[bigcarl]

Fraser was an out and out star

Agree, you have to be a gun to kick 100 in a season. Very, very good player was our G-Train.

[bigcarl]

I think something that has delayed Lee's inclusion has been Rhys Stanley's form (particularly in the last two games).

Also, Lee hasn't been that flash in the VFL.

On Stanley, he is much improved, but needs to start impacting more on the scoreboard if he is to do the job of a proper full-forward. Not that Lee is one of those yet.

[gringo]

Fraser was All Australian at age 21.

Tom Lee better get a wriggle on and get in that gym. He is a very good player but in my opinion he hasnt committed to the work to get an AFL physique. Maybe Fraser should give him some one on one sessions.

It's pretty hard to get biceps if your shoulders have been rebuilt recently. His shoulder troubles have restricted his ability to build up his physique. I spoke to him at the JO training and he was saying then he would take a while to get match fit in the VFL as he had missed pretty much the whole preseason. He has probably not trained properly since the end of last year until about a week before the season started. I imagine they will be pretty conservative with him until he's right. They are probably playing him in the midfield as a ruck to get miles into his legs. At training he is a really positive influence keeping every one up and about and seems like a Milney type chatterbox that has everyone laughing. He trains well and looks pretty committed. I think you can make assumptions based on him not playing games in the AFL but I think he will be back with a vengeance once his fitness is up.

[Sainternist]

There's mention in this thread of the G-Train. He was the last true full forward we had. Would be great to have another man-mountain/strongman in the ilk of big Fraser, but the classic full forward seems almost extinct in the new 21st century game.

I think Lee will need to bring some versatility to his game in order to have some longevity as an AFL player.

[bigcarl]

the classic full forward seems almost extinct in the new 21st century game

It's true that the trend is for modern key forward-types to provide more "defensive pressure" and run more. Even spend time on the ball.

But I do think if you had a player good enough he could turn back the clock.

For example, why would you play Lockett in any other position than as a traditional full forward?

[SMS]

Tom Lee is a fantastic kick. I agree he looked great last year at times.

I reckon he needs a haircut and to toughen up a bit. He looks weak with that boyish hair.

Seems too nice for footy to be honest.

He has the skill and size though. Same with Stanley. Although Staney showed some balls last weekend. Hope he comtinues it and teaches Tommy how to get there.

[bergholt]

the classic full forward seems almost extinct in the new 21st century game

It's true that the trend is for modern key forward-types to provide more "defensive pressure" and run more. Even spend time on the ball.

But I do think if you had a player good enough he could turn back the clock.

For example, why would you play Lockett in any other position than as a traditional full forward?

I don't think you could. But I wonder if he'd get enough if the footy in this day and age? He'd always be up against two defenders - at least - and generally the ball wouldn't come in as clean as it did in his day. No doubt he'd still take some contested marks and kick some goals from them, but he's not going to kick many 10s. And certainly he's not going to give us much forward pressure, his man will rebound off him all day!