Please move Essendope thread back here!

[gringo]

We want the drug cheat thread back......

[dragit]

I'd like it back, but don't think the majority are heard on this forum... Nearly everyone wanted the ability to edit your posts (after 2 minutes), but that request was denied.

I understand that the Essendon thread is not strictly always related to StKilda, but removing the most popular thread is dangerous for a forum that appears to be on the way out...

[matrix]

Sticky it up the top of the saints page????

[The OtherThommo]

I went looking for the quote about evil flourishing because good men...persons...do nothing. Turns out is was Edmund Burke. Although Burke was a Tory, he did seem to carry high ideals. Pity they got co-opted and bastardised by those who followed. He was coitanly prolific.

Anyway, I found the quote I was looking for, and a whole lot more which are rather worthy. Try this lot;

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

“There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men.”

“Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.”

“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

“Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little.”

“Our patience will achieve more than our force.”

“But what is liberty without wisdom and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint. Those who know what virtuous liberty is, cannot bear to see it disgraced by incapable heads, on account of their having high-sounding words in their mouths.”

“It is a general popular error to imagine the loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for its welfare.”

“Liberty does not exist in the absence of morality.”

“Among a people generally corrupt, liberty cannot long exist.”

“People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors.”

“It is not, what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice, tell me I ought to do.”

“Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites…in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.”

“Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."

“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.”

“He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.”

“Never despair, but if you do, work on in despair.”

“Kings will be tyrants by policy when subjects are rebels from principle.”

[happy feet]

Taking into account ToT's comments, why have we buried the Essendope thread? Is it like the media blackout on the boats arriving. If you don't know about it, it has not happened. That would suit the EFC and the AFL.

[skeptic]

for me, the real question is do we need an opposition forum.

I u/s a seperate forum for other sports but it wouldn't bother me see threads about other AFL issues/teams on the main forum... it may increase activity here for a start and quite frankly I don't think opposition talk will ever overtake saints talk

thoughts?

[WellardSaint]

I want the ability to edit my post, until someone has replied to it.
Why was that removed in the first place? If we all make enough noise, surely BUFA will do it?
(BUFA- find a better you)

[Jacks Back]

for me, the real question is do we need an opposition forum.

I u/s a seperate forum for other sports but it wouldn't bother me see threads about other AFL issues/teams on the main forum... it may increase activity here for a start and quite frankly I don't think opposition talk will ever overtake saints talk

thoughts?

True. tbh I only rarely go to any other forum on here (like twice a month if their lucky). I wouldn't mind seeing all AFL talk on here.

[Spinner]

To be honest, i've rarely looked or posted in that thread!

[saintspremiers]

for me, the real question is do we need an opposition forum.

I u/s a seperate forum for other sports but it wouldn't bother me see threads about other AFL issues/teams on the main forum... it may increase activity here for a start and quite frankly I don't think opposition talk will ever overtake saints talk

thoughts?

True. tbh I only rarely go to any other forum on here (like twice a month if their lucky). I wouldn't mind seeing all AFL talk on here.

Agree. Mainly the issue with SS is lack of regular posters so until that happens we may as well combine the two forums

[karnaby]

I'm another one who is disappointed that it was moved and I can't understand why anyone would think it was important to move it. <Pretty sad really>

[Dave McNamara]

I went looking for the quote about evil flourishing because good men...persons...do nothing. Turns out is was Edmund Burke. Although Burke was a Tory, he did seem to carry high ideals. Pity they got co-opted and bastardised by those who followed. He was coitanly prolific.

Anyway, I found the quote I was looking for, and a whole lot more which are rather worthy. Try this lot;

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

“There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men.”

“Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.”

“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

“Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little.”

“Our patience will achieve more than our force.”

“But what is liberty without wisdom and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint. Those who know what virtuous liberty is, cannot bear to see it disgraced by incapable heads, on account of their having high-sounding words in their mouths.”

“It is a general popular error to imagine the loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for its welfare.”

“Liberty does not exist in the absence of morality.”

“Among a people generally corrupt, liberty cannot long exist.”

“People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors.”

“It is not, what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice, tell me I ought to do.”

“Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites…in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.”

“Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."

“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.”

“He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.”

“Never despair, but if you do, work on in despair.”

“Kings will be tyrants by policy when subjects are rebels from principle.”

many thanks for that post TOT.

Some very sage and timeless advice to both the chiefs and the indians of this world.

[Devilhead]

I'm absolutely incensed!!!

It should be put back on the Main Board where it belongs in the Opposition Forum

Now time to cool down and get outside for a fresh of breath air

[ozrulestrace]

If it's a matter of the thread taking up too much space, is it possible the first 375 pages be archived, or moved to the opposition forum and keep the first page of discussion for sentimentality's sake and the last couple of pages.

Getting rid of it, means we are assisting Essendon in it's aim to re-write history and hope the whole thing will go away.

Maintain the rage I say and don't let apathy allow this issue fade into oblivion.

[saintbrat]

If it's a matter of the thread taking up too much space, is it possible the first 375 pages be archived, or moved to the opposition forum and keep the first page of discussion for sentimentality's sake and the last couple of pages.

Getting rid of it, means we are assisting Essendon in it's aim to re-write history and hope the whole thing will go away.

Maintain the rage I say and don't let apathy allow this issue fade into oblivion.

it's not gone completely- just in opposition forum

[kosifantutti]

I went looking for the quote about evil flourishing because good men...persons...do nothing. Turns out is was Edmund Burke. Although Burke was a Tory, he did seem to carry high ideals. Pity they got co-opted and bastardised by those who followed. He was coitanly prolific.

Anyway, I found the quote I was looking for, and a whole lot more which are rather worthy. Try this lot;

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

“There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men.”

“Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.”

“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

“Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little.”

“Our patience will achieve more than our force.”

“But what is liberty without wisdom and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint. Those who know what virtuous liberty is, cannot bear to see it disgraced by incapable heads, on account of their having high-sounding words in their mouths.”

“It is a general popular error to imagine the loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for its welfare.”

“Liberty does not exist in the absence of morality.”

“Among a people generally corrupt, liberty cannot long exist.”

“People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors.”

“It is not, what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice, tell me I ought to do.”

“Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites…in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.”

“Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."

“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.”

“He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.”

“Never despair, but if you do, work on in despair.”

“Kings will be tyrants by policy when subjects are rebels from principle.”

many thanks for that post TOT.

Some very sage and timeless advice to both the chiefs and the indians of this world.

Is this the type of stuff that gets posted in "Essendope"? I'm glad I never read it.

[Enrico_Misso]

What is the Opposition forum for?

[matrix]

i thinks its for when hawk and blues and melbs and gold coast etc etc fans visit our site, they can go there to troll and cause turmoil and disrupt our euphoric utopia

dont quote me on that tho as im not 100% sure

[mullet]

what an insult to tot who has done a hell of a lot of research on the matter.

Bring it back here, I never go on the general forum

Not feeling insulted, Mullet. Just think it's a bit unfortunate for those who just decide to have a gander, or offer a bit of news or opinion, when they see it visiting the forum with the most traffic. Plus, I struggle a bit with why some seem passionate about it not being in the main forum - people are not taken there automatically or forced to read it, they choose to go there from 1 title in an index. Seems a pretty minor inconvenience to me.

I can understand why some people are frustrated with how long it is taking and may, therefore, not want to be bothered by it until something substantial happens. But, there is that part of me that knows how institutions, like the AFL and E'dope, work their asses off to protect the status quo by all manner of tactics designed to disengage as many people as possible in their "realm", including boring them shirtless and blowing as much smoke as they can. One only needs to consider the number of people employed by the AFL and E'dope in the media and communications field (i.e. PR or Propaganda Reichstag), plus the legalistic practitioners, to make the connection. And, the best way to avoid those tactics being successful is for people to remain engaged through sharing information and opinions.

What's a "shadow", anyway? (Apart from one of Carl's nicknames).

Just an interesting tid bit, that I would have posted in the Essendope thread, but anyway....

Young athlete decided she was too good to wait around for her drug test as she was dehydrated and couldnt pee, so just walked out. Has now been handed an infraction notice and been banned for 15 months. She isnt getting much sympathy from her fellow athletes either. Ah the young, who think they are above all. Has now cost her a trip to world athletic championships, but in her words everyone else at asada are the dickheads

[The OtherThommo]

what an insult to tot who has done a hell of a lot of research on the matter.

Bring it back here, I never go on the general forum

Not feeling insulted, Mullet. Just think it's a bit unfortunate for those who just decide to have a gander, or offer a bit of news or opinion, when they see it visiting the forum with the most traffic. Plus, I struggle a bit with why some seem passionate about it not being in the main forum - people are not taken there automatically or forced to read it, they choose to go there from 1 title in an index. Seems a pretty minor inconvenience to me.

I can understand why some people are frustrated with how long it is taking and may, therefore, not want to be bothered by it until something substantial happens. But, there is that part of me that knows how institutions, like the AFL and E'dope, work their asses off to protect the status quo by all manner of tactics designed to disengage as many people as possible in their "realm", including boring them shirtless and blowing as much smoke as they can. One only needs to consider the number of people employed by the AFL and E'dope in the media and communications field (i.e. PR or Propaganda Reichstag), plus the legalistic practitioners, to make the connection. And, the best way to avoid those tactics being successful is for people to remain engaged through sharing information and opinions.

What's a "shadow", anyway? (Apart from one of Carl's nicknames).

Just an interesting tid bit, that I would have posted in the Essendope thread, but anyway....

Young athlete decided she was too good to wait around for her drug test as she was dehydrated and couldnt pee, so just walked out. Has now been handed an infraction notice and been banned for 15 months. She isnt getting much sympathy from her fellow athletes either. Ah the young, who think they are above all. Has now cost her a trip to world athletic championships, but in her words everyone else at asada are the dickheads

Which sorta gives you a bit of understanding as to why so many in fields other than the AFL (like athletics) are so p***ed off with the "dog ate my drug administering records" smoke blowing defence being tossed up in the E'dope matter. Differing standards will get you that.

Just to go back to earlier references to one Ric Mitchell, he used to throw down cans of light to produce the required urine sample inside the mandated time frame. He wasn't much of a fan of light (and, Lordy Mama, wasn't it an ordinary libation back then), but he did what he had to do.

The man sure made sacrifices.

[BackFromUSA]

for me, the real question is do we need an opposition forum.

I u/s a seperate forum for other sports but it wouldn't bother me see threads about other AFL issues/teams on the main forum... it may increase activity here for a start and quite frankly I don't think opposition talk will ever overtake saints talk

thoughts?

Very good question!

I am interested in others thoughts on this.

[BackFromUSA]

I want the ability to edit my post, until someone has replied to it.
Why was that removed in the first place? If we all make enough noise, surely BUFA will do it?
(BUFA- find a better you)

Hmmmm I have no objection to that ... the only issue is that I have looked around the admin panel to see if I can set that "edit until someone has replied to it" and I don't think it is an option.

I certainly want more of a window of time for people to edit their own posts.

But certainly don't want the ability for posters to change their post AFTER someone has responded with a counter argument ... a word here or there can make a big difference.

[kosifantutti]

I want the ability to edit my post, until someone has replied to it.
Why was that removed in the first place? If we all make enough noise, surely BUFA will do it?
(BUFA- find a better you)

Hmmmm I have no objection to that ... the only issue is that I have looked around the admin panel to see if I can set that "edit until someone has replied to it" and I don't think it is an option.

I certainly want more of a window of time for people to edit their own posts.

But certainly don't want the ability for posters to change their post AFTER someone has responded with a counter argument ... a word here or there can make a big difference.

People should be able to edit their posts for as long as they like. Everyone knows if you go back and edit a post because the forum software should indicate it has been edited. I just tested it and this forum software does not show that a post has been edited.

Only a fool would then claim that they hadn't edited the post. I've never seen this as an issue on other forums.

This post has not been edited

[Jacks Back]

for me, the real question is do we need an opposition forum.

I u/s a seperate forum for other sports but it wouldn't bother me see threads about other AFL issues/teams on the main forum... it may increase activity here for a start and quite frankly I don't think opposition talk will ever overtake saints talk

thoughts?

Very good question!

I am interested in others thoughts on this.

I vote for that.

[BackFromUSA]

How about as soon as there is NEW news on this ... I shall move it back.