I don't get it....

[gringo]

They were saying the other week that Joel Selwood pick #7 was their highest pick for years. It's development.

Please do not use Cats with 28 father sons and ridiculous G Ablett compensation (when they only had to use pick 40 odd to get him in the first place due to shyte father son rules) as an example

I think Nathan Burke has all girls yeah??

Yep quoting the Geelong model is the classic sucker punch.
Let's see
Scarlett
Ablett
Blake
Hawkins

Spread out nicely as well.

Even melbourne with viney and Stretch next draft will be pretty handy, WBD got Libba junior and Wallis we just don't seem to have any luck. North even get Mc donald for free.

[kosifantutti]

They were saying the other week that Joel Selwood pick #7 was their highest pick for years. It's development.

Please do not use Cats with 28 father sons and ridiculous G Ablett compensation (when they only had to use pick 40 odd to get him in the first place due to shyte father son rules) as an example

I think Nathan Burke has all girls yeah??

Yep quoting the Geelong model is the classic sucker punch.
Let's see
Scarlett
Ablett
Blake
Hawkins

Spread out nicely as well.

So Geelong sitting on top of the ladder, this year is totally due to Tom Hawkins and nothing to do with good drafting and fostering a winning culture.

[Teflon]

So Geelongs "winning culture" hasn't benefited over the past decade from great father sons?
That winning culture hasn't meant guys like Caddy have nominated they want to play at Geelong?

Ironically, Geelong dropped out if the 8 2007 and received a higher draft pick in J Selwood .... some suggested they weren't as bad as they appeared that year but used the system well and got a gun future captain ...

So let's see...... we have no father sons coming through and are set to lose once in a generation players like Riewoldt, we play in a system that rewards you with a higher selection for finishing lower and you want us to finish 9th??

Do tell us how you plan to replace Riewoldt?? Hope the next Boyd slips through to pick 9 ish???

[FQF]

A successful team is the culmination and synthesis of many many elements. Some of those elements are controllable; good administration, good winning culture, football department, drafting, ladder finish (if you wish it to be). Some are uncontrollable; father-son picks, injuries, the bounce of a ball in the dying minutes of a GF.

To be successful we need to determine all the elements and then we need to make it happen. This means controlling the controllables and hoping the rest falls your way. We need to identify and exploit every advantage that exists and work tirelessly and ruthlessly we do.

So far, we have done that. We sacked a coach when it would have been FAR easier to maintain the status quo. We have traded or released favourite sons when it would have been FAR easier to let the old boys finish their careers together and travel off into the sunset with respectable ladder finishes. We patiently appointed a top line coach and quality CEO despite the external pressure that it was taking too long. And because of all this, we are already looking like we have a brighter future.

But there is so much more to be done. We are playing in a competition, and that means keeping up with our competitors. As long as GC and GWS get served - on a silver platter - lists boasting a midfield with Ablett, OMeara, Martin, Bennell, Swallow et al. or a forward line of Boyd Patton and Cameron, we need to work doubly hard to remain with them.

Finishing on the bottom of the ladder is not enough. We need to make every pick count, every trade count, and absolutely maximise every spot on our list. But then again, finishing 9th makes it even harder.

As far as I see it, this year the following should be the approach. Pick a team that will be in the interests of development. Development of young players, development of competitive and fighting spirit, development of a close-nit team structure. And play to win.

[jonesy]

Probably the least I've cared about losing a cliff hanger ever. The first half was horrible,but after half time we dominated the game, just couldn't deliver the knockout blow. After winning 3 from 6 already I don't think losing a close game like that will hurt us one bit. Infact it probably teaches the kids a lesson about footy straight off the bat. Take a side easily that you are supposed to beat and you will get rolled in todays game.

Billings and Stanley two weeks in a row were the big positive for mine. No point getting angry at Ray for missing a goal to win us the game,or frustrated at jones butchering the ball. These types are there to stop us getting thrashed while we wait to draft the next 24 months worth of talent that aren't at the club yet.
We already know there floors, but they won't be around next time we contend.

People still cling to dreams and fairytales of us somehow pulling off a miraculous revival in 12 months and contending again. I feel sorry for these people, it's going to be a tough journey for them. Realistically,if we can see Acres is going to be a player also this year,then the season will be a raging success. It will be a great year of recruiting if he's player,as we have already seen two rippers come through in the first month

[kosifantutti]

So Geelongs "winning culture" hasn't benefited over the past decade from great father sons?
That winning culture hasn't meant guys like Caddy have nominated they want to play at Geelong?

Ironically, Geelong dropped out if the 8 2007 and received a higher draft pick in J Selwood .... some suggested they weren't as bad as they appeared that year but used the system well and got a gun future captain ...

So let's see...... we have no father sons coming through and are set to lose once in a generation players like Riewoldt, we play in a system that rewards you with a higher selection for finishing lower and you want us to finish 9th??

Do tell us how you plan to replace Riewoldt?? Hope the next Boyd slips through to pick 9 ish???

Let me get this straight.

We can't afford to finish 9th or 10th.

We should do what Geelong did, finish low on the ladder and pick up a gun future captain.

But Geelong finished 10th (it was actually 2006, I think the were OK in 2007. )

So we should finish 10th.

Did I miss anything?

[joffaboy]

So Geelongs "winning culture" hasn't benefited over the past decade from great father sons?
That winning culture hasn't meant guys like Caddy have nominated they want to play at Geelong?

Ironically, Geelong dropped out if the 8 2007 and received a higher draft pick in J Selwood .... some suggested they weren't as bad as they appeared that year but used the system well and got a gun future captain ...

So let's see...... we have no father sons coming through and are set to lose once in a generation players like Riewoldt, we play in a system that rewards you with a higher selection for finishing lower and you want us to finish 9th??

Do tell us how you plan to replace Riewoldt?? Hope the next Boyd slips through to pick 9 ish???

Let me get this straight.

We can't afford to finish 9th or 10th.

We should do what Geelong did, finish low on the ladder and pick up a gun future captain.

But Geelong finished 10th (it was actually 2006, I think the were OK in 2007. )

So we should finish 10th.

Did I miss anything?

When did Geelong pick up Hawkins for a third round dp? Cnt remember. And who did they pick with the dp that they would now have to use for Hawkins.

Somebody posted all the players they got in the draft because they had Ablett, Ablett, Scarlett, Hawkins, West and one other father son.

It means they get two top players for the price of one. If you dont think theat hasn't helpthem maintain their list I am amazed

Even when they lost Gary Ablett they got two high dps.

Where has been the Saints leg up like that, virtually 8-10 0r more top dp's for third round dp?

I agree with teflon, how else do we re-generate the list unless it is what Pelchan has started?

[maverick]

[
Please do not use Cats with 28 father sons and ridiculous G Ablett compensation (when they only had to use pick 40 odd to get him in the first place due to shyte father son rules) as an example

I think Nathan Burke has all girls yeah??

Yep quoting the Geelong model is the classic sucker punch.
Let's see
Scarlett
Ablett
Blake
Hawkins

Spread out nicely as well.

So Geelong sitting on top of the ladder, this year is totally due to Tom Hawkins and nothing to do with good drafting and fostering a winning culture.

So their so called winning culture and fostering of talent has nothing to do with father son champions?

[evo]

I don't know about any one else, but I hate loosing. The Lions result tore my guts out and I feel no compensation in the fact it may buy us a better DP !!

[maverick]

I don't know about any one else, but I hate loosing. The Lions result tore my guts out and I feel no compensation in the fact it may buy us a better DP !!

Nope me neither, yelling at the TV was particularly poor with the family around...
But because of the system it was a great result for the club.
Sad isn't it.

[Sainternist]

To play well one week and then lose to a bottom team the next is pretty typical for a rebuilding team that consists of mainly young players.

Felt momentarily aggrieved after Friday night's loss, but was quickly to become more philosophical about it.

Losing Eli was far worse than the loss itself.

[Teflon]

Kosi

You got the point of it all (good name for a book...) correct ie Cats did finish lower and received a better pick for doing so - tick!
You failed miserably on positioning..... 9/10 won't cut it to get the next gun CHF this sides gonna need

I am still keen to understand how you expect to get the next Riewoldt finishing 9th - do tell.

[kosifantutti]

Kosi

You got the point of it all (good name for a book...) correct ie Cats did finish lower and received a better pick for doing so - tick!
You failed miserably on positioning..... 9/10 won't cut it to get the next gun CHF this sides gonna need

I am still keen to understand how you expect to get the next Riewoldt finishing 9th - do tell.

But 10th was where Geelong finished. So 10th is ok but 9th is not.

[maverick]

Kosi

You got the point of it all (good name for a book...) correct ie Cats did finish lower and received a better pick for doing so - tick!
You failed miserably on positioning..... 9/10 won't cut it to get the next gun CHF this sides gonna need

I am still keen to understand how you expect to get the next Riewoldt finishing 9th - do tell.

But 10th was where Geelong finished. So 10th is ok but 9th is not.

Not for a key forward no.

[evo]

I don't know about any one else, but I hate loosing. The Lions result tore my guts out and I feel no compensation in the fact it may buy us a better DP !!

Nope me neither, yelling at the TV was particularly poor with the family around...
But because of the system it was a great result for the club.
Sad isn't it.

Winning is a great result for the club. It brings in sponsors, members, exposure and a winning culture like Hawthorne and Collingwood have. A better draft pick is speculative at best.

[Teflon]

Kosi

You got the point of it all (good name for a book...) correct ie Cats did finish lower and received a better pick for doing so - tick!
You failed miserably on positioning..... 9/10 won't cut it to get the next gun CHF this sides gonna need

I am still keen to understand how you expect to get the next Riewoldt finishing 9th - do tell.

But 10th was where Geelong finished. So 10th is ok but 9th is not.

I've always admired your posts. I KNOW you're smarter than that...

I genuinely admire your "win every game at all costs" . I don't share that view in our current state and yes, i do believe some things are bigger than winning the weekend match

Let's just hope we get it right.

[Zed]

What an emotional roller coaster it's been. Expecting to lose against the Bombers and winning was one of the best feelings I've had since 2010. Expecting to win against the Lions and losing was one of the worst. In some ways, a 3point loss to Essnedon followed by a win over the Lions would probably have left me feeling happier today despite the fact the ladder position would be exactly the same, as it would mean to me that the foundation is more solid.

[BigMart]

Didn't we get a leg up with 2 priority picks?

In most drafts from 1999- 2013 Geelong have had later DPs

They have just drafted better

We could have had Bartel instead of X
Stevie J instead of Maguire
We have them Pick 17 J.Kelly to get Heath Black

[joffaboy]

Didn't we get a leg up with 2 priority picks?

In most drafts from 1999- 2013 Geelong have had later DPs

They have just drafted better

We could have had Bartel instead of X
Stevie J instead of Maguire
We have them Pick 17 J.Kelly to get Heath Black

Did we get G Ablett equivelent for a third round dp (and therefore use a 1st round dp on someone else)?
Did we get N Ablett equivelent for a third round dp (and therefore use a 1st round dp on someone else)?
Dis we get a Scarlet, a West, A HAWKINS equilivent for a third round dp and able to use 3 first round dp's for someone else?

So that is 3 champions, one premiership player and a seviceable ruckman, plus FIVE other players they got for their first round dp when they should have been used on their F/S picks.

If you cant see that you are just trolling

[maverick]

Didn't we get a leg up with 2 priority picks?

In most drafts from 1999- 2013 Geelong have had later DPs

They have just drafted better

We could have had Bartel instead of X
Stevie J instead of Maguire
We have them Pick 17 J.Kelly to get Heath Black

Yep so did the Hawks, Pies, Doggies, and Freo...
What's the point here?

We didn't give pick 17 to the cats by the way

[Teflon]

Didn't we get a leg up with 2 priority picks?

In most drafts from 1999- 2013 Geelong have had later DPs

They have just drafted better

We could have had Bartel instead of X
Stevie J instead of Maguire
We have them Pick 17 J.Kelly to get Heath Black

Sometimes Mart you do yourself no favours

It's good to be controversial but not at the cost of stupidity.

[lloyd21]

I don't know about any one else, but I hate loosing. The Lions result tore my guts out and I feel no compensation in the fact it may buy us a better DP !!

Agree with you Evo hate losing Senior players guiding the kids hate losing too .
Sends the wrong message to the playing group as well.


They won't win enough games even if they play their guts out to finish above bottom 4 end of story .

Also giving away experienced players that are mentoring young players is dumb option .

No quick fix draft well and pick disinchanted young uncontracted Gws players is the only way to go over several years.

[kosifantutti]

Let's just hope we get it right.

We can agree on that.

[Johnny Member]

A few things....


1) Our wins have masked the true state of our team. The win-loss has fooled people into thinking we're closer than what we really are. Take Riewoldt out, infact just let him kick 3.3 instead of 5.1 (which is really truer to form anyway) and we'd probably be 0-6.

2) I don't think anyone wants us to lose. But when we inevitably do, some of us accept it as a positive in the bigger scheme of things. This is due to point 1 above.

3) No one is suggesting or saying that getting high draft picks categorically equals success. No one is being that naïve. But one thing is for certain - clubs with average to poor lists do not have success. Full stop. Right now, we have an average to poor list. And the best way to improve that, is via the draft. And, the best players are higher up in the draft.

4) In my opinion, the best path to success is to get a large group (ie. 5-10) into the club around the same time (2-3 year period). This seems to be the recipe for success, as the coach can build a culture with them and they drive each other. This becomes the core going forward. Ideally, these guys all arrive whilst there are still some quality old guys getting around to tutor them until they take over the reigns themselves. The longer this core stays together, the better chances of success. Hawthorn did this, Geelong did it, Sydney did it, we did it. Port have also done it right now. We are very fortunate I believe, that we've had an influx of players that can come in with a new coach and build something for themselves - whilst having the luxury of feeding of the old guys still. The timing is ideal - but we still need more quality in through the doors.

5) The obvious problem with the above is, Carlton and Richmond. They've also done it but with the likes of Gibbs, Kruezer and Murphy, and with Richmond with jibs like Deledio and spuds like King and Jackson.

And this is where we get back to points 1) and 2). If we think we already have the core of talent to take us forward we're deluded. At a guess, I'd say we probably we have 3-4 potential A-Graders on the list right now to make up the core of our next premiership threat (that's excluding Steven). There are some kids who are showing a bit, but really I think they're just battlers that are having a dip and there lack of class is being hidden behind the likes of Montagna and Hayes.

Unless we get another 2-3 future A-Graders on our list in the next 2 years, our improvement will be limited and we'll be a Carlton or Richmond, as opposed to a Hawthorn or a St Kilda.

6) People forget that Geelong have the best or close to it, footballer in the comp as their captain. They have arguably the best forward in the comp (Hawkins), they have arguably the best defender (Taylor) plus they still have Bartel, Mackie and Johnson running around. This is why they're still a gun team! Take these guys out and leave it up to the Hunt's and Duncan's and I guarantee that Geelong would no longer being talked about as a powerhouse and they'd be referring to the word 'rebuild' a hell of a lot down there.

[FQF]

A few things....


1) Our wins have masked the true state of our team. The win-loss has fooled people into thinking we're closer than what we really are. Take Riewoldt out, infact just let him kick 3.3 instead of 5.1 (which is really truer to form anyway) and we'd probably be 0-6.

2) I don't think anyone wants us to lose. But when we inevitably do, some of us accept it as a positive in the bigger scheme of things. This is due to point 1 above.

3) No one is suggesting or saying that getting high draft picks categorically equals success. No one is being that naïve. But one thing is for certain - clubs with average to poor lists do not have success. Full stop. Right now, we have an average to poor list. And the best way to improve that, is via the draft. And, the best players are higher up in the draft.

4) In my opinion, the best path to success is to get a large group (ie. 5-10) into the club around the same time (2-3 year period). This seems to be the recipe for success, as the coach can build a culture with them and they drive each other. This becomes the core going forward. Ideally, these guys all arrive whilst there are still some quality old guys getting around to tutor them until they take over the reigns themselves. The longer this core stays together, the better chances of success. Hawthorn did this, Geelong did it, Sydney did it, we did it. Port have also done it right now. We are very fortunate I believe, that we've had an influx of players that can come in with a new coach and build something for themselves - whilst having the luxury of feeding of the old guys still. The timing is ideal - but we still need more quality in through the doors.

5) The obvious problem with the above is, Carlton and Richmond. They've also done it but with the likes of Gibbs, Kruezer and Murphy, and with Richmond with jibs like Deledio and spuds like King and Jackson.

And this is where we get back to points 1) and 2). If we think we already have the core of talent to take us forward we're deluded. At a guess, I'd say we probably we have 3-4 potential A-Graders on the list right now to make up the core of our next premiership threat (that's excluding Steven). There are some kids who are showing a bit, but really I think they're just battlers that are having a dip and there lack of class is being hidden behind the likes of Montagna and Hayes.

Unless we get another 2-3 future A-Graders on our list in the next 2 years, our improvement will be limited and we'll be a Carlton or Richmond, as opposed to a Hawthorn or a St Kilda.

6) People forget that Geelong have the best or close to it, footballer in the comp as their captain. They have arguably the best forward in the comp (Hawkins), they have arguably the best defender (Taylor) plus they still have Bartel, Mackie and Johnson running around. This is why they're still a gun team! Take these guys out and leave it up to the Hunt's and Duncan's and I guarantee that Geelong would no longer being talked about as a powerhouse and they'd be referring to the word 'rebuild' a hell of a lot down there.

I agree with all the above except the "if Roo didn't kick his goals then we wouldn't have won". That's a pretty futile argument because he did kick them. If we are going down that track we should be second guessing every bounce of the ball, every gust of wind, every umpiring decision.