Hickey or McEvoy

[tony74]

Hickey was average tonight but still ended the night with more hitouts than McEvoy has ever recorded in a game.

Fell crook an hour before the game. In retrospect probably should have played Longer. They rolled the dice.

[The Redeemer]

Hickey was average tonight but still ended the night with more hitouts than McEvoy has ever recorded in a game.

Fell crook an hour before the game. In retrospect probably should have played Longer. They rolled the dice.

Surely the more times that Hickey gets his hands on the ball, the more often it is remotely going to be in our favour but in due course when he improves, it will be in our favour?

Therefore, Hickey is more useful than Mac who continues to do bugger all around the ground too.

[BigMart]

I think people need to look at some opposition stats

R1 Jake Spencer
R2 Shane Mumford
R3 Dean Cox
R5 Pat Ryder
R6 Trent West

Total Head to head stats on hit outs, possessions, marks, contested marks??

[dragit]

I think people need to look at some opposition stats

R1 Jake Spencer
R2 Shane Mumford
R3 Dean Cox
R5 Pat Ryder
R6 Trent West

Total Head to head stats on hit outs, possessions, marks, contested marks??

So if Hickey has better stats than McEvoy next week... The question is, will you craft a new fantasy points scheme to show that McEvoy had the better game?

[BigMart]

Yes, I'll look at the raw numbers of both Ruckman .... Whilst crude, it will indicate performance... You really haven't suggested a better objective measure or

What's you're way?... Just to have your own personal, possibly biased, possibly limited, possibly emotional, possibly just an opinion view?

It wasn't rocket science .... Just attaching values (any values) to statistics? As long as applies consistently to both, the values don't even really matter (they could be letter values) it just helps when a measured comparison is desired

It will only be one game

I like the fact people are getting desperate now?.... 10 possessions (1kick, 1 mark) 7 possessions (3k 3m) ....

It'll get worse too... Not his performances... The desperation

It'll be forgotten when Longer takes over

[dragit]

Not sure who you are referring to Marto, I also said from the beginning that I thought Longer would eventually overtake Hickey…

I'm still confused by your ranking system, it rated Mumford Higher than Hickey, but you also said that Hickey played a better game overall (2nd best on ground from memory?), was that an emotional response?

Hickey is a couple of years behind Mac in age and about 3 years in experience, so if he gets anywhere near him next week it will be a good result, if he beats him we should all be happy, but I get the feeling you will be clinging to any thread of evidence that Mac is till better.

[3rd generation saint]

Tell me BM, no matter how many stats analysis you do, no matter how many comparisons you do, no matter how much you go on about it, is it going to change the fact McEvoy now plays for Hawthorn.
Please it's time to move on, McEvoy isn't here anymore, and nothing you do or say will change that.
Put it to bed, I don't care what McEvoy does at Hawthorn, just wish him good luck, except of course for next week.

[Winmar]

When McEvoy was in form I thought that he was more likely to pick up a loose ball than most of our smaller guys. His ability to read the play is excellent, as shown by all the marks he took on the half back line. This was always counterbalanced by his average ruck work. I'm not sure yet whether Hickey has the same ability to read the play, but his rucking ability is evidently greater. Either way, I think both Hawthorn and St Kilda have done well out of the whole switcheroo.

[BigMart]

Who played better this weekend?

Isn't that how we normally evaluate players.... On one week?

I think ruck work is overstated but even so..... Hickey has only won 33% of ruck contests this year? ..... How he gets rated for his ruckwork is strange IMO

Ben is not a great ruck contest player.... His strength is important possessions and reading the play.

[maverick]

Who played better this weekend?

Isn't that how we normally evaluate players.... On one week?

I think ruck work is overstated but even so..... Hickey has only won 33% of ruck contests this year? ..... How he gets rated for his ruckwork is strange IMO

Ben is not a great ruck contest player.... His strength is important possessions and reading the play.

Well McEvoy lost the hit outs today so he must of got beat.

[WellardSaint]

McEvoy, by his own admission (IIRC) said he needed to step up a notch and improve, has been in the system for a while and needs to show something.

Well, apart from getting Shane Meek (meek being the opposite of Savage) we didn't do too badly from the trade.
I have more faith in Hickey coming on soon, and I reckon McEvoy has reached his potential.
Macca will never be a Dean Cox or similar, taking a big mark when it's needed (yes I know he saved a few in defence)
on a REGULAR basis.

[remboy]

Are we going to do this after every game for the next 10 years?

[WellardSaint]

Are we going to do this after every game for the next 10 years?

Of course not.
How many times have we mentioned Brent Guerra, or Fiora, or Peake, etc etc

Folks get bored easy.
We are still talking about Goddard, but he will disappear off the radar, so will Macca, so will the others.

[BigMart]

Why do you think that Mav?

I don't rate hit outs highly.... Do you?

I just find it amusing and at times a contradiction that people use this stat to form their basis of opinion on any Ruckman... Ie/Hickey .... Who incidently loses many more than he wins... Which actually that concerning to me.... It his influence around the ground I worry about

Unless I have stated, they are dominant in winning clearance due to the ruckwork.

Hampson had 30HO.... 6 possessions
McEvoy 22.... And 22 possessions

I can safely say who was better......

Btw
Hawthorn won total hit outs 45/43
Ben doesn't take every contest in the ruck

[noob]

At this stage McEvoy.. but I think in a few years the trade will even itself anyway. We are not competing for the top4/GF at this stage so why does it matter? It counts once we surge back up the ladder in a couple of years time. Hickey is not even in his prime yet.. I think we'll be right.

[BigMart]

I think we will win the trade easily? It seems we selected 2 very players....

Ben was worth more than pick 18 IMO .... A 2007 pick 9 who is almost a developed Ruckman and leader

But

I think Dunstan will prove to be a much better player than his draft position.... Top tenner IMO

Blake was an upgrade five spots.... That may or may not be a factor.... We don't know if he was either going to be gone by 19 or still there at 24 or whether Hartung will be any good?.... But his selection might also be a winner

So in essence
Average trade.... But great drafting....

At least we had compensation though...

[ROLS-LEE]

This week will see Big Ben (McEvoy) Vs the love bite (Hickey).

This game is when Ben needs to step up and show his worth but it was games like this last year is when Ben let us down. Did not dominate against supposed inexperienced ruckmen.

Lets hope Hickey continues this trend as this board will explode if Ben has one of those blue moon games were he actually contributes.

I believe they will break even or Hickey will come out on top.

[thejiggingsaint]

hey wellard saint and remboy, don't get me started on Rix, Brooks or Capuano

[remboy]

hey wellard saint and remboy, don't get me started on Rix, Brooks or Capuano

How many hitouts did they have on the weekend? If HIckey doesn't develop maybe we could get them back.
A three pronged ruck attack, now that would have to work

[sunsaint]

I think I have said it before but if not - why do these unsuccessful clubs continually want our crap players like Ball & Ben?

[hayes66]

I think I have said it before but if not - why do these unsuccessful clubs continually want our crap players like Ball & Ben?

Very good point. I would add Lynch to that also. I know people on this site still don't rate Tom, even though he has kicked ten in a game and lead Adelaide's goal kicking last year, and second game back from injury gets best or second best on the ground. All this crap that it's ok because we got Newnes and Dunston. If you want to improve isn't the idea to keep your good players and add to them? If you are just replacing good with good then you as a team aren't improving. I AM NO GENIUS BUT I KNOW THAT MUCH!!

[saint6709]

Unfortunately - we won't get an answer this week with a head to head match up

[ace]

LONGER

[Middo]

I think I have said it before but if not - why do these unsuccessful clubs continually want our crap players like Ball & Ben?

Very good point. I would add Lynch to that also. I know people on this site still don't rate Tom, even though he has kicked ten in a game and lead Adelaide's goal kicking last year, and second game back from injury gets best or second best on the ground. All this crap that it's ok because we got Newnes and Dunston. If you want to improve isn't the idea to keep your good players and add to them? If you are just replacing good with good then you as a team aren't improving. I AM NO GENIUS BUT I KNOW THAT MUCH!!

Correct your no Genius ...Tom Lynch hardly showed anything when he was with us due to Lyon not giving him a chance or not really having an impact when he did play. He was a GOP with us and that's all I know and I'm no Genius ..

[BigMart]

He was hardly played... So hard to form an opinion

He was excellent at Sandy