McEvoy Subbed Out of Today's Game

[Moorabbin Man]

Always an act of insanity to invest such a high pick in a ruckman,

Insane to use a high pick on a ruckman?

kruezer goes ok when not injured
Nic Nat
Luenberger
Macintosh
Hale

all top 10 picks and that was just quick look

Natinui is a once in a generation freak and is more than just a ruckman. He could be a midfielfer. In regard to the others, I wouldn't waste a top ten pick on them.

[saintsRrising]

It is the Clinton Jones effect.

Tries hard, runs around a fair bit but does not actually do too much well

You might want watch CJ more closely.....

[saintsRrising]

What matters is what we have gained...

Hickey is flowering and is doing what Mc could not do at the centre bounces. Hickey has shown that he can do it around the ground too....with more pace than Mc and so can be more influential. Given more experience he will get better...


DUNSTAN... The benefit is obvious and clear. He will be a gun in our future midfield. ACRES could well be too.

If Savage blossoms too, that will be beyond cream. NZ pr for now....

In trades you have to give up something to get something. The beauty of this Pelchen trade is that we have given up a player we will not miss and indeed will most likely have a player upgrade on in a season or two...if not already.

Personally I think it no coincide that our midfield under Hickey is transformed this year.

[BigMart]

Why was he beaten?

I thought we weren't measuring Ruckman on DPs

When it was pointed out that Hickey was smashed in the hit outs in the first three rounds?

Simpson had 6 disposals for the full game and Zero kicks
Mac took / contested marks
McIntosh played 50% fwd as did Ben and outdid his 188cm opponent a few times for shots on goal.

Oh and MacIntosh was a top ten DP and has been an AA

MacEvoy is a very solid Ruckman
One sample game when returning from a 3 week calf is not a great sample is it?
Otherwise I could use Rnd 1 where he took 5 contested marks and had over 20 hitouts?

Weekend
Hickey took 1 mark (uncontested) had 1 kick
3 hit outs to advantage
197cm opponent

Mac took 4 marks (2 contested) had 4 kicks
2 hit outs to advantage
209cm opponent


Both were ordinary

[The Fireman]

I didn't think McEvoy could ruck when we had him...took some good marks around the grd but not much of ruckman in my eyes.

Hickey can Ruck

[maverick]

I didn't think McEvoy could ruck when we had him...took some good marks around the grd but not much of ruckman in my eyes.

Hickey can Ruck

And that simply put says it all, 100% agree.

[GeorgeYoung27]

Slightly selective fact presentation. McEvoy's 1 week injury becomes 3 weeks and Hickey's 1 week injury is not mentioned. The stats quoted are only those that support your argument. When the games were in the balance this last weekend Hickey was getting better and McEvoy for the 2nd time this year was on the bench.

[saintsRrising]

Both were ordinary

Even if that were true...with one we have gained already at least one mid who is going to be a gun. It may well be 2 depending on how Acres goes (and he is meant to take longer)....

I'm happy. Your not. Personally I cannot understand why.

[Devilhead]

Weekend
Hickey took 1 mark (uncontested) had 1 kick
3 hit outs to advantage
197cm opponent

Mac took 4 marks (2 contested) had 4 kicks
2 hit outs to advantage
209cm opponent

Sorry BM may i ask where you get your Hit Outs to advantage stats from?

[saintspremiers]

Both were ordinary

Even if that were true...with one we have gained already at least one mid who is going to be a gun. It may well be 2 depending on how Acres goes (and he is meant to take longer)....

I'm happy. Your not. Personally I cannot understand why.

Stop using facts SR.

[BigMart]

Champion Data?
% HO to Adv

Fireman
We got Savage and Dunstan for Hickey.... Acres was just a pick upgraded 24-19
We still would have got a player with 24
It may have been Acres, Hartung or someone else

Again
What is a ruckmans job?
To win hit outs?
If that's the case Hickey is getting flogged losing 65% of hit outs
We've been over this... Warnock had 50+ against Essendon and was nearly worst on ground, his opponent exposed him?!
So hit outs are not necessarily worth much

A ruckmans job is to influence the contest with his size
To lead the ball or allow smalls to, to provide a contest around the ground.


My opinion is Hickey is not physical enough as a Ruckman lacks strength and gets moved easily. His skill level is average and he is mobile, but not agile.
Longer IMO will surpass him if not this season, definitely next.

My opinion

[PJ]

Hickey's game last week was his least impressive but in the first 2 weeks the media had been raving about him. They'd been positive about Mac too but more for his marking ability than his ruck work and more for his form in the preseason comp.

Mac leaving has opened the door for more opportunity for Tommy H and looks to have taken a big step up - Ben is doing what we've already known he could do. Billy hasn't really had a crack yet so I think any predictions are just that. Wait and see. Personally I'm glad both are in our squad and I'm sure we'll get value out of both.

[joffaboy]

Hickey's game last week was his least impressive but in the first 2 weeks the media had been raving about him. They'd been positive about Mac too but more for his marking ability than his ruck work and more for his form in the preseason comp.

Mac leaving has opened the door for more opportunity for Tommy H and looks to have taken a big step up - Ben is doing what we've already known he could do. Billy hasn't really had a crack yet so I think any predictions are just that. Wait and see. Personally I'm glad both are in our squad and I'm sure we'll get value out of both.

Oh no - the voice of reason

[magnifisaint]

He was extremely poor. 3 marks and 8 hitouts. Not good for a big bloke.

Everyone is entitled to a poor game

[WinnersOnly]

Champion Data?
% HO to Adv

Fireman
We got Savage and Dunstan for Hickey.... Acres was just a pick upgraded 24-19
We still would have got a player with 24
It may have been Acres, Hartung or someone else

Again
What is a ruckmans job?
To win hit outs?
If that's the case Hickey is getting flogged losing 65% of hit outs
We've been over this... Warnock had 50+ against Essendon and was nearly worst on ground, his opponent exposed him?!
So hit outs are not necessarily worth much

A ruckmans job is to influence the contest with his size
To lead the ball or allow smalls to, to provide a contest around the ground.


My opinion is Hickey is not physical enough as a Ruckman lacks strength and gets moved easily. His skill level is average and he is mobile, but not agile.
Longer IMO will surpass him if not this season, definitely next.

My opinion

Bigmart lets hope you are right that being the case they both keep improving and we will have a formidable rucking combination...

[evertonfc]

I think Hickey is already on the cusp of moving past McEvoy, who I always felt was cumbersome and something of a dead weight around the ground.

I'm sure it will take a few years for that to be borne out statistically but I'm already pleased we've got one more than the other.

And given McEvoy's inflated reputation, I feel he'll be getting an inflated fee for his services.

Still wouldn't ever knock McEvoy as a human being, however, as he seems like an upstanding footballer.

[busso mick]

I think Hickey is already on the cusp of moving past McEvoy, who I always felt was cumbersome and something of a dead weight around the ground.

I'm sure it will take a few years for that to be borne out statistically but I'm already pleased we've got one more than the other.

And given McEvoy's inflated reputation, I feel he'll be getting an inflated fee for his services.

Still wouldn't ever knock McEvoy as a human being, however, as he seems like an upstanding footballer.

Big Ben is a top bloke and you are right that he is getting paid a hell of a lot more at the Hawks. He had his heart set on being a career Sainter but it was not to be.

[BigMart]

The trade was a in no doubt a risk, a huge gamble... We had a solid B Grade Ruckman and future leader with a lot of development time spent, and the benefits are to come... But his ceiling was pretty much understood.

Very similar to Armo

We gambled on the draft and it seems won out. It was shrewd, courageous and could have blown up... The last time we offloaded a Ruckman we went to the draft with pick 6. It was a memorable flop

As I have written, the ace in the pack was a guy wanting to exit Brisbane, Hawthorn preferring Ben because of age and development.

So we indeed ended up with a great deal!!!!

Hickey
Needs to add strength and physicality and work on his contested marking

[plugger66]

Hickey is going well at the moment. I dont see why we are worried about him.

[Dr Spaceman]

Hickey is going well at the moment. I dont see why we are worried about him.

Very few are worried about Hickey; very few.

[plugger66]

Hickey is going well at the moment. I dont see why we are worried about him.

Very few are worried about Hickey; very few.

Well it seems one person just cant get enough of him and not in a good way so yes you are right.

[Devilhead]

Champion Data?
% HO to Adv

Sorry you subscribe to Champion Data??

Pretty sure this information isn't available to general public unless you pay for it

Would you be able to provide me the link??

[plugger66]

Champion Data?
% HO to Adv

Sorry you subscribe to Champion Data??

Pretty sure this information isn't available to general public unless you pay for it

Would you be able to provide me the link??

Cant you get that info off the HS stats. well you could previously but yes CD doesnt supply that for free.

[Devilhead]

Champion Data?
% HO to Adv

Sorry you subscribe to Champion Data??

Pretty sure this information isn't available to general public unless you pay for it

Would you be able to provide me the link??

Cant you get that info off the HS stats. well you could previously but yes CD doesnt supply that for free.

No I can only find straight hit out stats on the HS Superfooty site

As with a lot of sites they only provide the number of Hit Outs NOT Hit Outs to advantage.

I've checked all over the web and the only way you can access the Hit Outs to advantage stat is through subscription to certain sites.

[samoht]

...
Hickey
Needs to add strength and physicality and work on his contested marking

I agree, Hickey needs to improve in these areas - and chances are he will.

McEvoy will never add pace, though - that was the one big negative with him.

This year we've seen Hickey chase and run down opponents, like Ward (GWS), after a furious 20 metre chase - he got a free kick out of it and single-handedly stopped a certain goal.

There are the intangibles that put him ahead of McEvoy.