Brent Guerra on "Open Mike"

[BigMart]

Isn't it funny

Lyon defenders state.... He was a kick away from a GF and ahead late in the game therefore unlucky

GT was also leading in two preliminaries and just lost... If we won either we may have won the next week. Very likely in 04 IMO

[stinger]

2004-2006 period imo was one of the great times of this club. GT was good imo. All the other bulls*** about X, Y, Z coaches available is just rubbish. Overall, we were a good team and I liked the way we played. We just fell agonizingly short along with our own supporters running onto the field and totally ruining the momentum.

yeah, yep and yes..... ....we have some real clowns as supporters...but hey.....you can tell that from just reading this forum.......can't you????

[Teflon]

Isn't it funny

Lyon defenders state.... He was a kick away from a GF and ahead late in the game therefore unlucky

GT was also leading in two preliminaries and just lost... If we won either we may have won the next week. Very likely in 04 IMO

A pre requisite to winning a GF is first you have to get into 1
Many say hardest game to win is a prelim
Lyon did it twice and GOT us into 2 GFs (09 was our year IMHO)

Nothing funny in the fact that Thomas didn't and couldn't even get us to the "opportunity" of winning a Premiership - on that score he's just another in a long line of AFL coaches who couldn't get past prelims (Dogs had a bit of it too).

[onlooker2]

I don't think there is much point in comparing the records of GT or Ross L. These two in my view were very different coaches and therefore brought different attributes to coaching us. I reckon coaches are either great motivators or great tacticians and its very rare that a coach can be great in both facets. GT was clearly a great motivator of players and particularly young players taking the status of the playing list from where it was to where he left it probably a season before he got the bullet. Ross L is rated as the best tactician in the game and he got us so close against GF opponents that had marginally better balanced sides. It disturbs me now to think about it. Anyway my point is don't try and compare them, they were different coaches for different eras at the Club.

[Johnny Member]

I believe that 05 and 09 were our best ever (in my lifetime) chances of winning the flag.

Ironically, I think poor coaching decisions on the day cost us the game in 09, whilst ack of personnel due to a massive injury list is what cost us the 05 prelim. I think the coaching that night was actually very good.

I say 'ironically', because I believe Lyon was the better coach overall.

[BigMart]

Rodney Eade coached the dogs ATT

He coached Sydney into a GF in 96

You missed the point on GT. I wasn't talking about which games (prelim vs GF)
It was the "Ross was unlucky to go down after leading and losing by a fickle bounce)
Well it was a piece of Wanganeen brilliance that defeated GT in 04 and A final quarter from hell... With NO fit players on the bench in 05 vs Sydney

What was unlucky for one is surely the same for the other... The difference both times was a single play

Or

Both times they couldn't get it done

Not one was unlucky, one couldn't get it done?!

[SydneySainter]

Brent's entitled to say it, just like GT was entitled to say that Milne should have been traded.

[magnifisaint]

I think Guerra is more than entitled to his opinion. He's played under a few coaches and would know what their shortcomings were so he would know more than anyone on here where St Kilda was as at under Thomas. St Kilda had the perfect opportunity to win the flag in 04 with the team it had and should have been able to set itself up much like Geelong has but unfortunately has failed for which Guerra would know all too well. So he is not an ordinary person for answering some questions posed to him.

[Spinner]

Lyon was gifted a briliant team. The core group that managed to make it to 2 pre-lims was still there. Unfortunately for most coaches they don't get an opportunity like Chris Scott or Ross Lyon got with the Saints. Appoint Ross Lyon right now as the coach of Carlton and let's see Rossco hang on to his win loss ratio.

He's turned around the biggest basket case in the AFL already.

Carlton would be a walk in the park.

You do know he continued to coach in the league after he left St Kilda yeah?

[joffaboy]

I believe that 05 and 09 were our best ever (in my lifetime) chances of winning the flag.

Ironically, I think poor coaching decisions on the day cost us the game in 09, whilst ack of personnel due to a massive injury list is what cost us the 05 prelim. I think the coaching that night was actually very good.

I say 'ironically', because I believe Lyon was the better coach overall.

Poor coaching??? Poor kicking by the players more like. When do they ever get in critisism?

7.7 to 7.1 at halftime, with at least three of those points gimme's.

Wet windy day, three or four up at half time and we win.

[dragit]

The biggest difference between Lyon & Thomas is that after coaching our club, one was head-hunted on a multi-million dollar deal and continued to coach a team deep into finals… the other was banished from the sport and will never be involved at this level again.

[SaintPav]

The biggest difference between Lyon & Thomas is that after coaching our club, one was head-hunted on a multi-million dollar deal and continued to coach a team deep into finals… the other was banished from the sport and will never be involved at this level again.

That's because Lyon left and GT was sacked. I'm no GT lover but he wasn't exactly banished.

GT joined a long line of ex AFL coaches.

People forget that the club interviewed for the job at the end of 2001 and Chris Conolly got the gig.

[Spinner]

The biggest difference between Lyon & Thomas is that after coaching our club, one was head-hunted on a multi-million dollar deal and continued to coach a team deep into finals… the other was banished from the sport and will never be involved at this level again.

Must not be as many 'marshalling the troops' jobs out there...

But seriously what a wank if GT actually did justify his role as the marshall and Bundy as the strategist...

That's what happens when it's a sham process.

[SaintPav]

The biggest difference between Lyon & Thomas is that after coaching our club, one was head-hunted on a multi-million dollar deal and continued to coach a team deep into finals… the other was banished from the sport and will never be involved at this level again.

Must not be as many 'marshalling the troops' jobs out there...

But seriously what a wank if GT actually did justify his role as the marshall and Bundy as the strategist...

That's what happens when it's a sham process.

Yep. I can just imagine GT sitting back in the coaches box and asking what to do next...

From what I heard he did what he wanted.....I also heard that in the 2005 prelim when we were getting smashed in the last quarter he asked Burkey to give him some ideas and he responded with something along the lines of "you haven't listened to me all year and you're not about to start listing to me now".

I don't know if it's true but when I asked GT about this on Twitter he wanted to know who told me and he didn't deny it.

If people are pissed about how GT went and that he had too much power etc they should blame the President and the board. It was their job to run the club.

[dragit]

The biggest difference between Lyon & Thomas is that after coaching our club, one was head-hunted on a multi-million dollar deal and continued to coach a team deep into finals… the other was banished from the sport and will never be involved at this level again.

Must not be as many 'marshalling the troops' jobs out there...

But seriously what a wank if GT actually did justify his role as the marshall and Bundy as the strategist...

That's what happens when it's a sham process.

Yep. I can just imagine GT sitting back in the coaches box and asking what to do next...

From what I heard he did what he wanted.....I also heard that in the 2005 prelim when we were getting smashed in the last quarter he asked Burkey to give him some ideas and he responded with something along the lines of "you haven't listened to me all year and you're not about to start listing to me now".

I don't know if it's true but when I asked GT about this on Twitter he wanted to know who told me and he didn't deny it.

If people are pissed about how GT went and that he had too much power etc they should blame the President and the board. It was their job to run the club.

Exactly the same could be said about Lyon.

[SaintPav]

GT was not the type to just sit back and let others make the decisions.

Didn't Patrick Smith nickname GT cornflakes because Malcolm "rat toss bag" Blight threw him out of the coaches box?

[SaintPav]

Yes.

My point is that GT was a powerful personality on game day as well. They all are.

[BigMart]

Who did you hear that from?

If you were in the know , you'd understand GT was a far more empowering coach than Ross... Who is very much an authoritarian.

One of those individuals devised a leadership group with a rotating chair and put a lot of emphasis on ownership of performance. One told the group what he wanted.

One explained to me that JB was the recruiting guy, I leave all the decisions up to him. The other stated what type of player he wanted, which discards would benefit his team and stopped the draft once for the 2min recess to push fwd a player and got his wish

One drove his assistants extremely hard to drill his plan, one relied heavily on line coaches developing plans.

One listened to players... Sometimes over a beer, one told players in his office

Eg
A difference of opinion with a senior player with one almost ended up in a barney, after a conversation over a few beers with them... But got resolved and moved fwd
The other had a player in his office and just told him.l. Give me one reason why I should pick you next week?

I don't suggest any of those processes are right or wrong

But GT was far more inclusive (perhaps because he needed more assistance, and used his assistants)
Ross 'the boss' was clearly that... His way or as he took... The highway

[Spinner]

^ So 8 paragraphs above but ends with a 'not saying either way is right or wrong'.

So you're saying nothing? Save us the long dribble and just don't write anything then.

Your contribution is becoming a joke.

[BigMart]

You don't make a contribution

[BigMart]

Sorry, you do...

But it's not worthwhile

[SaintPav]

BM, I wasn't comparing Lyon to Thomas and like Spinner said you have contradicted yourself.

Lyon was a control freak.

and?????

Thomas did what he wanted at the end of the day. The empowering stuff is bullsh!t.

You bought that line. Fu.cking hilarious.

I'm not telling you how I know becuause you are a rude pr!ck.

[White Winmar]

The biggest difference between Lyon & Thomas is that after coaching our club, one was head-hunted on a multi-million dollar deal and continued to coach a team deep into finals… the other was banished from the sport and will never be involved at this level again.

Must not be as many 'marshalling the troops' jobs out there...

But seriously what a wank if GT actually did justify his role as the marshall and Bundy as the strategist...

That's what happens when it's a sham process.

Yep. I can just imagine GT sitting back in the coaches box and asking what to do next...

From what I heard he did what he wanted.....I also heard that in the 2005 prelim when we were getting smashed in the last quarter he asked Burkey to give him some ideas and he responded with something along the lines of "you haven't listened to me all year and you're not about to start listing to me now".

I don't know if it's true but when I asked GT about this on Twitter he wanted to know who told me and he didn't deny it.

If people are pissed about how GT went and that he had too much power etc they should blame the President and the board. It was their job to run the club.

I can assure everyone that the bit about Burkey is true, Pav. Burkey left the coaching side of things because of his treatment by GT.

[White Winmar]

GT was not the type to just sit back and let others make the decisions.

Didn't Patrick Smith nickname GT cornflakes because Malcolm "rat toss bag" Blight threw him out of the coaches box?

The nickname came about because he'd been tipped out of so many boxes. Blight, Pagan et. al.

[markp]

GT was appointed coach at a time when we desperately needed someone to bring some stability and vision... but the fact that we were in such a dire state (which he had a hand in) as to have such a need was a diabolical farce.

Then he set about entrenching himself, when clearly he was initially installed as a temporary stop-gap, and clearly he was overreaching ability and experience wise.

However close he came to getting us into a GF (with a stellar list significantly gifted us through previous years of failure and afore mentioned farce), he did not. People can speculate all they like about how we would've gone... they are very hard to make and very hard to win.

In the game of attributes minus deficiencies both GT and Lyon come up short in the ego department. Purely as an AFL coach to say Lyon shades GT is an understatement.

But this thread has turned out very amusing... now, where are the people who argued Watters was a better coach than Lyon?

At least (hopefully) now, after all the years of pain and ineptitude we (almost miraculously) seem to find ourselves with a good plan, good capable men at the helm, a cunningly modest salary cap position, and a list of brimming prospects.

We may currently be down, but we are well poised... lets hope all (or at least most!) the days of farce are behind us.