St Kilda going home !!

[plugger66]

I wish i could understand what you write. Im sure its entertaining.

[The Fireman]

Your anti JO campaign has been noted Plugger hopefully your camp will not get it's way and we move to the JO.
This thread has been reduced to repetitive banter.

you want something better without cost...sorry Plugger but we aren't on the same page.

So what seems a reasonable price to you?

I'm not sure , smarter money men than me would know what we can and can't afford but whatever it takes we should have a crack at it, it's an opportunity we just can't go past. As I said earlier I just hope the negativity towards the move by some doesn't have any impact.

[The Fireman]

I wish i could understand what you write. Im sure its entertaining.

great debate...you are quickly losing me Plugger.

[plugger66]

I wish i could understand what you write. Im sure its entertaining.

great debate...you are quickly losing me Plugger.

It was a joke. It wasnt trying to dismiss what he said. Im pretty sure i have debated everything with pretty much common sense and no personal agenda.

[thezelk]

No disrespect to our patronage at Moorabbin, but have you seen them? there about 150 years old.
Takes them an hour to press the button, thats why our turnover is so low.

The much needed upgrade to our pokie facilities will hopefully attract younger well heeled patronage, who can go there have a meal and a drink, watch the team play away on the tv,or alternatively
watch our vfl team run around.
That will help the bottom line.

[Dave McNamara]

Whoops. Got caught up in Firey's giving it to Pluggs, and posted outta' order. This one shoulda' preceded the 'PS' post...


NB: For any fellow Saintsationalists who may be remedial readers, ADHD-style short attention spanners, or who simply have a life to live in the real world (wherever that is... I hear that the light is really bright...? )... feel free to skip this post, as the closing punchline will follow as a separate 'PS' in the next post.


Ok, now that I'm just writing to and for myself, I can say anything I like...

Pluggs:
Now that you're up to speed re the Hillbillies, I'm confident that it's the same story re "Rome wasn't built in a day'"

Pluggs & 3GS:
- The ground doesn't have to be up and running over night.
I'd really prefer not to, but, I'd wait twenty years, and... forgo a flag in that time, to see this eventually all fall into place. Yep, I'm that serious about what we could eventually achieve if we can eventually get this up n' running. But don't worry overly about the twenty years thing... even if that was the case, Dawks-style, we'd then start to catch-up with a rush.

- The Hillbillies still have standing room, and they been playing there this century with even more standing room than now.

- 15,000-20,000 capacity would put the Junction on a par with, or ahead of... Lonny, Carrara, Manuka, Bellerive, Cairns, Darwin, the WACA, and probably Subi before the re-development. (Also, I think that there was at least one AFL game at the Adelaide Oval long before the upgrade, so add that in too.)

- Hillbillies make $850,000 from an average crowd of 26,000. So lets halve that, and then round down. That's $400,000ish if we only got 13,000 Saintas to the Junction. That's way better than the $73,000-odd we'll probably be forking out today when we get 26,000.
So just four home games would more than cover the pokies loss. (Though I was talking marketing, sponsorship, the vibe et al when referring to the Junction opening up extra income opportunities.)

- Cost... see the cryptic ref in my previous email. But also... many Saintsationalist are talking tens of millions. (Though Pluggs, you kept adding another $10 million with each post... and that only stopped when you just starting adding zeros. )
But that much? Really? 'Various funding' proposals that have already been mentioned would cover the amenities... food and drink outlets, toilet blocks, et al, and much of the viewing amenities upgrade.
By that last point, what I mean is, why do we have to start with 360 wrap around grandstands? Bring in a heap load of dirt, build up the tiering of the outer, and whack in some seats. (Remember, Docklands aside, AFL footy grounds still have people sitting out in the elements.)
Hey, if we were keen, maybe some temporary stands like they had at some of the grounds on our recent Ashes tour.
And if still keen, whack up a bit of a roof over the back of some of the outer, ala what the skunks did at Victoria Park.


Remember, we are marketing the unique experience that is our St Kilda footy club. (Point of difference is the weazel-words term I believe. )

And whilst we are remembering... 'Rome wasn't built in a day' Pluggs, however...
when you do finally make it out to Moorabbin airport (don't forget to look up btw )...
you'll see that 'everything's impossible... till it's possible.'


Oh, and our game is built up passion and romance...

[bigred]

This whole thing will NOT work if we have to play second fiddle to Cricket Victoria.

[plugger66]

Whoops. Got caught up in Firey's giving it to Pluggs, and posted outta' order. This one shoulda' preceded the 'PS' post...


NB: For any fellow Saintsationalists who may be remedial readers, ADHD-style short attention spanners, or who simply have a life to live in the real world (wherever that is... I hear that the light is really bright...? )... feel free to skip this post, as the closing punchline will follow as a separate 'PS' in the next post.


Ok, now that I'm just writing to and for myself, I can say anything I like...

Pluggs:
Now that you're up to speed re the Hillbillies, I'm confident that it's the same story re "Rome wasn't built in a day'"

Pluggs & 3GS:
- The ground doesn't have to be up and running over night.
I'd really prefer not to, but, I'd wait twenty years, and... forgo a flag in that time, to see this eventually all fall into place. Yep, I'm that serious about what we could eventually achieve if we can eventually get this up n' running. But don't worry overly about the twenty years thing... even if that was the case, Dawks-style, we'd then start to catch-up with a rush.

- The Hillbillies still have standing room, and they been playing there this century with even more standing room than now.

- 15,000-20,000 capacity would put the Junction on a par with, or ahead of... Lonny, Carrara, Manuka, Bellerive, Cairns, Darwin, the WACA, and probably Subi before the re-development. (Also, I think that there was at least one AFL game at the Adelaide Oval long before the upgrade, so add that in too.)

- Hillbillies make $850,000 from an average crowd of 26,000. So lets halve that, and then round down. That's $400,000ish if we only got 13,000 Saintas to the Junction. That's way better than the $73,000-odd we'll probably be forking out today when we get 26,000.
So just four home games would more than cover the pokies loss. (Though I was talking marketing, sponsorship, the vibe et al when referring to the Junction opening up extra income opportunities.)

- Cost... see the cryptic ref in my previous email. But also... many Saintsationalist are talking tens of millions. (Though Pluggs, you kept adding another $10 million with each post... and that only stopped when you just starting adding zeros. )
But that much? Really? 'Various funding' proposals that have already been mentioned would cover the amenities... food and drink outlets, toilet blocks, et al, and much of the viewing amenities upgrade.
By that last point, what I mean is, why do we have to start with 360 wrap around grandstands? Bring in a heap load of dirt, build up the tiering of the outer, and whack in some seats. (Remember, Docklands aside, AFL footy grounds still have people sitting out in the elements.)
Hey, if we were keen, maybe some temporary stands like they had at some of the grounds on our recent Ashes tour.
And if still keen, whack up a bit of a roof over the back of some of the outer, ala what the skunks did at Victoria Park.


Remember, we are marketing the unique experience that is our St Kilda footy club. (Point of difference is the weazel-words term I believe. )

And whilst we are remembering... 'Rome wasn't built in a day' Pluggs, however...
when you do finally make it out to Moorabbin airport (don't forget to look up btw )...
you'll see that 'everything's impossible... till it's possible.'


Oh, and our game is built up passion and romance...

Seriously dave i have no idea on the hillbilies but 15k stadium in melbourne means at least 5k of our own supporters miss out every week. Those other grounds either dont have footy or are in non footy states. And how many games could we play in a 15k stadium a year. 3 at the most so they are going to spend 200 million a 3 game a year stadium. fantasy land stuff Dave. By all means think we will train on an outside ground at the JO but forget playing at the JO. We cant even train there. Yes Dave i added more because i did research of the costs of other grounds. Im sticking with 200 million though its probably likely more. We only lose 6.8 million a year based on my figures. Doesnt seem worth it just so half our membership see 3 games a year.

[The Fireman]

This whole thing will NOT work if we have to play second fiddle to Cricket Victoria.

what if we play the Cello ?

[Dave McNamara]

Hillbillies make $850,000 from an average crowd of 26,000.
That's way better than the $73,000-odd we'll probably be forking out when we get 26,000.

Last night official crowd: 26,708 at Etihad Stadium.

Sooooooo, is last night yet another $73,000-odd pay-out by the club to help the AFL buy Docklands...?

[saintspremiers]

Hillbillies make $850,000 from an average crowd of 26,000.
That's way better than the $73,000-odd we'll probably be forking out when we get 26,000.

Last night official crowd: 26,708 at Etihad Stadium.

Sooooooo, is last night yet another $73,000-odd pay-out by the club to help the AFL buy Docklands...?

Yes

[karnak]

yay!

[Stephen Theodore]

Hillbillies make $850,000 from an average crowd of 26,000.
That's way better than the $73,000-odd we'll probably be forking out when we get 26,000.

Last night official crowd: 26,708 at Etihad Stadium.

Sooooooo, is last night yet another $73,000-odd pay-out by the club to help the AFL buy Docklands...?

What's the formula for working that figure out ?

[Dave McNamara]

Hillbillies make $850,000 from an average crowd of 26,000.
That's way better than the $73,000-odd we'll probably be forking out when we get 26,000.

Last night official crowd: 26,708 at Etihad Stadium.

Sooooooo, is last night yet another $73,000-odd pay-out by the club to help the AFL buy Docklands...?

What's the formula for working that figure out ?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84886&p=1443736&hil ... 0#p1441922

Hi Steve T, yep, is from 2009, but is still current... ie; I haven't heard our club doing cartwheels over having achieved a better deal.

So on a 26,000 crowd, the Hillbillies make $850,000 from a Kardinia Park home game, we fork out $73,000 at Docklands.


That difference in the net take is close enough to us spotting them a million dollars a home game... makes it hard to compete.



Putting it into perspective for season 2014:
If I'm counting correctly, in 2014 they play 7 home games down there. I'd be confident that we'll play 7 Docklands home games with crowds around 26,000 or less...

So with that scenario it's $923,000 (net diff in gate profits) times 7 games = $6,461,000 (the Hillbillies are better-off than us)

Hillbillies: $5,950,000 profit.
Saintas: $511,000 loss... worse if our crowds are even smaller.



(Hillbillies have offered the Poodles $750,000 per game to play some of their home matches down there...)

[saintbrat]

The Saints do not have a Deal/agreement with Etihad
The AFL do have a commitment to so many games and fixture the Saints to Etihad

I am unaware of what returns the club can make or has to make depending on crowd size
But generally allowances have changed -ie the club has no sales presence inside the ground anymore only the Saints Locker Truck on the bridge

[saintbrat]

Federal money not forth coming so plans on the back burner and AFL and Cricket need to work out another way to get footy onto the G earlier

[Dave McNamara]

Federal money not forth coming so plans on the back burner and AFL and Cricket need to work out another way to get footy onto the G earlier

Hi St B, I assume that statement is based on the Budget(?)

And I thought this was to be the 'infra-structure' government...?

And the no new taxes government...

And no increased taxes government...


Sigh...




Oh well, need to work on... 'other ways'.

[Dave McNamara]

[Dave McNamara]

Tenants at Docklands must draw crowds of at least 30,000 otherwise they owe the stadium money, even after AFL compensation is factored in.

So by giving tickets away, St Kilda is saving itself from yet another invoice.

http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2 ... owds/70533

...whilst the Hillbillies make $850K from their home games at you-know-where... averaging 26,000 in the crowd.


Eventually... we simply must return home.

Please Saintas' Board... for obvious reasons I won't say 'whatever it takes', but please,

try to move heaven and earth to make this happen.

[plugger66]

Tenants at Docklands must draw crowds of at least 30,000 otherwise they owe the stadium money, even after AFL compensation is factored in.

So by giving tickets away, St Kilda is saving itself from yet another invoice.

http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2 ... owds/70533

...whilst the Hillbillies make $850K from their home games at you-know-where... averaging 26,000 in the crowd.


Eventually... we simply must return home.

Please Saintas' Board... for obvious reasons I won't say 'whatever it takes', but please,

try to move heaven and earth to make this happen.

Dave the figures show we would lose 10 million a game if we played 2 games at the JO. That is based a 200 million build which seems about right and for a 16k stadium which is the maximum it could hold. Probably less in reality so only 2 games could be played there aginst interstate sides and only when we are a bottom side. based on figures i think we would lose about 10 million a game. hardly seems worth it dave but if you have other figures that would be interesting. Actually I may have got it wrong because for about 80% of members going home would be Moorabbin. Sorry I based it on JO but lets face it probably only about 5% of supporters have ever seen the Saints play a home game there. Again probably less.

[samuraisaint]

don't know about Home games, but saw plenty of good games against Fitzroy there back in the day. saw some crook ones too, but then again I have seen plenty of other crook ones at Moorabbin, Waverley, and Docklands too.

[Animal Enclosure]

CV moving to Footscray Park. Building an elite training centre in conjuction with Vic Uni & City of Maribrynong.

[thequarry]

CV moving to Footscray Park. Building an elite training centre in conjuction with Vic Uni & City of Maribrynong.

Yes, certainly looks like that's what happening.

Without trying to self-promote and failing miserably, I reported this at the start of last week (although the site doesn't typically "report" things):
http://www.redwhiteandblack.com.au/2014 ... scuppered/

[citywest]

Thanks a lot Archie you ####### idiot. The most catastrophic decision in our entire club's history in moving to Seaford. Closely followed by playing all of our home games at Docklands and in third place abandoning Tassie. Those 3 decisions have put our club in peril and inevitably could prove the final death knell. I hope we make NZ work because if we don't, when the AFL decide it is time to relocate a struggling Vic team to Tassie and or to NZ, I fear they will be knocking on our door. Thanks very much Archie Fraser. You are a moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[plugger66]

Thanks a lot Archie you ####### idiot. The most catastrophic decision in our entire club's history in moving to Seaford. Closely followed by playing all of our home games at Docklands and in third place abandoning Tassie. Those 3 decisions have put our club in peril and inevitably could prove the final death knell. I hope we make NZ work because if we don't, when the AFL decide it is time to relocate a struggling Vic team to Tassie and or to NZ, I fear they will be knocking on our door. Thanks very much Archie Fraser. You are a moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why does it matter where we train CW?